Too Crowded? Newbie looking to purchase their first van and tug.
Bassman said
06:51 PM Jul 18, 2015
Hello to the group.
Last month we were all excited planning and investigating vans and tow vehicles. Today I bumped into a friend at a Hamfest (Amateur Radio Swap Meet) and we started talking about caravans. His recommendation was for me to forget all about it. There are too many vans on the roads and not enough spots to house them. He mentioned he was at the Devils Marbles and all the spots where taken up early in the afternoon. One minute there is nobody there. Then caravaners descend on the spot in hoards.
I also mentioned my wife's desire to take her two pugs along. He said that it is difficult enough getting a spot now let alone taking dogs with you. The conversation drifted onto that I should open a discussion on a forum. That I would be better off flying and flying out of holiday destinations rather than buying a tow vehicle, caravan and spending thousands on fuel.
My friend also said he is glad he only bought a 16 foot van as that was big enough and difficult enough to tow and reverse with out going bigger.
So here I am. What do you current experienced caravaners think?
An off road van, a 4WD could cost upwards of $160k. Is it money well spent? Or should we just be happy with our caravan park cabin at Inverloch (no pets) and buy a Harley as he recommended?
Kind regards,
Paul and Shelley.
Hey Jim said
07:06 PM Jul 18, 2015
Hi Paul & Sherley,
Who has $160,000 to lash out.
What % would spend that kind of coin, unless you are prepared to forgo your castle.+ life style.
Do the somes.
Hey Jim
TheHeaths said
07:08 PM Jul 18, 2015
Unfortunately Paul and Shelley, caravanning is not for all. Yes it can be difficult some days towing a bigger van. But most days it is fine. Sometimes I reverse well, and sometimes we both end up laughing at how many goes it has taken to get on the site. Such is life. It really doesn't matter.
Yes it can be busy, especially at popular spots during the height of the season. I am sure it gets the same where your park cabin is during certain periods. We just travel out of season, or holidays if we can, and if not, make the best of it.
Yes, it can be a bit difficult to find pet friendly parks at times. It is possible, however, as we have done it for the past 8 years, finding parks in all the popular spots we have wanted to visit in NT, NSW, SA, Vic and Qld. We have used kennels and doggy day care sometimes, and seen whatever we have wanted. Now we have no dogs, it will be easier, but don't let your friend put you off.
There is no need to spend $160k on a van and vehicle. Ours has cost us ~ $85k, and many, many people travel comfortably with units costing a lot less than ours. The unit is not the trip, the places and people are. The cost depends entirely on YOU.
In the end, only you can decide if it is for you. I suggest that if you can, hire a van for a couple of small trips and see. We do love it, but to each their own.
Hope you work it out soon.
Evie n Rhys said
07:13 PM Jul 18, 2015
Paul and Shirley my opinion is if you want to do it then go for it. Yes there are a lot of us out there but have you been to Bali lately or Mornington or any other holiday destination or airport even. I would not go for a huge tug and van to start but perhaps hire a van to start and see if your comfortable with the whole idea. For me, there is too much out there to see and experience not to be doing it and you don't have to camp with those folk at Devils marbles there are other spots if you explore a bit off the beaten track. We are soooo lucky to have this opportunity and such a wonderful country to explore. Give it a go I say.
Tess
Kendo said
07:33 PM Jul 18, 2015
Hi Paul and Shelley
No one can tell you the best way to holiday and travel. Your "friend" might be well meaning, but you are the only ones who know what you do and don't like.
This forum is great for sharing experiences and giving advice. What you choose to do with it is nobody else's business but your own.
The more you read here the more you realise there is no set formula for how to go about traveling this wonderful country.
Start with what you can afford and give it a go. You might find that your "friend" was completely wrong and there is lots of fun to be had out there
Good luck guys and travel safe
Jeff
WobblyNut said
08:20 PM Jul 18, 2015
G'day Paul & Shelley . Welcome to GN's
Why not start out "moderate" than build up .
I had a small van , now we are at 17' & a 2.5 Turbo diesel tug.
Not ruling out going bigger & we are "setting up" for the occasional camping nights.
ie purchasing portable shower & loo . And yes we like our o-s travel , gunna miss out
this year , as #1 son has to have 4 wisdom teeth out . ...t happens . But next year ,
planning Buffalo NY & a lot of upstate NY . why mention that . Well to get there >
Customs & security out of Oz / customs in to US / security again at Lax / change planes
at Chicago / maybe security again = 30hrs & not much sleep + 2/3wks + $12/15k
Then same coming back . Even longer going west.
Yep , would rather set up a van every day than that , but we only have breakfast in the van,
as we did when I had a mobile home . If I am on holidays , I ain't working . I am eating out.
JCT said
08:24 PM Jul 18, 2015
I would suggest hiring for your first couple of short trips to give it a try,
a tug and van or a motor home ( which is what I have) to find out your preferance.
Don 't let others decide for you but listen to various views before You decide.
Parking your rv is like parking a car, if the car park is full, you move onto the next car park.
Try before you buy is the best advice, but You decide.
Enjoy whatever you decide.
Regards
Colin
rockylizard said
08:42 PM Jul 18, 2015
Hey Jim wrote:
Hi Paul & Sherley,
Who has $160,000 to lash out.
What % would spend that kind of coin, unless you are prepared to forgo your castle.+ life style.
Do the somes.
Hey Jim
Gday...
While not $160,000 perhaps ..... but for myself - Tug $61,000 2nd hand + van $67,000 new. And around $4,000+ to set up for bush camping = $132,000 or thereabouts.
If you want to travel these days - it is quite easy to spend between $100,000 and $160,000+ getting 'set up' depending on your needs and budget. But remember that MANY do it with far less outlay.... and of course there are just as many who spend more.
It certainly can be very crowded depending on where your travels and preferences take you. Winter up north (QLD/NT/WA) are PEAK times ... thousands of vans/travellers - but they are mainly at the 'attractions'. If you want to be a "tourist" rather than a just a traveller then you will have plenty of company to share your experiences. Some see that as a bonus. Additionally if you stay away from "up the centre", or "East Coast beaches" or "West Coast" in that time frame then it is also nowhere near as bad as you have been told.
If you want to travel outside May to Sept up north, then it is no where near as crowded if you want the 'journey of a lifetime' and absorb the natural, rural parts of Straya then you can spend much time away from the maddening crowds. Using the example of Devil's Marbles, if you are there before April ... or after Sept and like warmer weather ... you will find it is far less 'popular' - the Mexicans have all gone home because it has got too 'hot' for them.
Thousands also travel with dogs and enjoy it and have minimal problems. Pets can be a 'limiting factor' but definitely not a 'road block'. You just have to be prepared to be do your research for 'pet-friendly' venues ... no different to staying in cabins. Do motels do 'pet-friendly' ?
Handling a van is not that difficult - as with most things, practice makes improvement. You could also do a towing course - very beneficial and rewarding.
I guess, what I am really trying to say, and along with others on the forum, if you wanna do it ... just get on with it and DO IT!
It is the most rewarding lifestyle - and you really can structure how you travel to suit your preferences, wants, needs and budget.
Cheers - and enjoy the playground - John
-- Edited by rockylizard on Saturday 18th of July 2015 08:45:11 PM
Dougwe said
09:29 PM Jul 18, 2015
I'll keep my bit short.
I came in way under the $160,000 and have what is in my signature.
I am more than comfortable and love being in the playground full time with no back up or home base anymore. My residential address is wherever I prop the night.
Keep Safe out there.
dogbox said
09:36 PM Jul 18, 2015
rockylizard wrote:
Hey Jim wrote:
Hi Paul & Sherley,
Who has $160,000 to lash out.
What % would spend that kind of coin, unless you are prepared to forgo your castle.+ life style.
Do the somes.
Hey Jim
Gday...
While not $160,000 perhaps ..... but for myself - Tug $61,000 2nd hand + van $67,000 new. And around $4,000+ to set up for bush camping = $132,000 or thereabouts.
If you want to travel these days - it is quite easy to spend between $100,000 and $160,000+ getting 'set up' depending on your needs and budget. But remember that MANY do it with far less outlay.... and of course there are just as many who spend more.
It certainly can be very crowded depending on where your travels and preferences take you. Winter up north (QLD/NT/WA) are PEAK times ... thousands of vans/travellers - but they are mainly at the 'attractions'. If you want to be a "tourist" rather than a just a traveller then you will have plenty of company to share your experiences. Some see that as a bonus. Additionally if you stay away from "up the centre", or "East Coast beaches" or "West Coast" in that time frame then it is also nowhere near as bad as you have been told.
If you want to travel outside May to Sept up north, then it is no where near as crowded if you want the 'journey of a lifetime' and absorb the natural, rural parts of Straya then you can spend much time away from the maddening crowds. Using the example of Devil's Marbles, if you are there before April ... or after Sept and like warmer weather ... you will find it is far less 'popular' - the Mexicans have all gone home because it has got too 'hot' for them.
Thousands also travel with dogs and enjoy it and have minimal problems. Pets can be a 'limiting factor' but definitely not a 'road block'. You just have to be prepared to be do your research for 'pet-friendly' venues ... no different to staying in cabins. Do motels do 'pet-friendly' ?
Handling a van is not that difficult - as with most things, practice makes improvement. You could also do a towing course - very beneficial and rewarding.
I guess, what I am really trying to say, and along with others on the forum, if you wanna do it ... just get on with it and DO IT!
It is the most rewarding lifestyle - and you really can structure how you travel to suit your preferences, wants, needs and budget.
Cheers - and enjoy the playground - John
-- Edited by rockylizard on Saturday 18th of July 2015 08:45:11 PM
well put rocklizard
Woody n Sue said
09:46 PM Jul 18, 2015
Well I agree pretty much with all comments above I would just add on the backing a van part the shorter the van wheel base the harder it is to back but practice will help lots here , as for the $ we have a 24 ft 5th wheeler for me it is the only safe van to tow but that's my opinion not everyone else's ,$38.000 plus Nissan patrol 05 because I wanted no computer control of the engine again that's just my opinion $25,000
That's $63.000 plus a few extras since purchase it's our first van so don't know for sure what we wanted so wouldn't buy new first, but this combination was what we recon will serve us well for a while anyway. I am a farmer so I have been driving semi's and multi combinations all my life not at all daunted by towing a little 5th wheeler, haven't traveled much yet but as advised above avoid the " popular " spots in the peak times it's not rocket science.
At least try it for yourself don't let sombody else's bad experience decide for you .
Dont end up on your death bed still wondering, get out there a try it, so you know for your self
Safe travels
Woody
Graden said
09:51 PM Jul 18, 2015
Have you thought of a motor home?, no problem reversing and can be got for less than 100k for good 2nd hand. As others have said, go and try it with a hired van. Don't be put off by someone elses opinion, they may have not tried it. If you dont do it you may always be thinking "what iff".
Bassman said
09:57 PM Jul 18, 2015
Thank you to all those that have replied so far. I will be monitoring this post for as long as people respond.
What I have not mentioned is that I am expecting a very large retrenchment package and a possible fortnightly payments for quite a few years afterwards. The anticipated money is not burning a hole in my pocket. Though Shelley would like to take a six month long service leave of absence from her employer in the next couple of years. I have spoken with one GN whom has a very nice setup which can last of the grid as long as he has water. This setup is something at the moment that I would like to duplicate. Well at least I think I do.
Apart from a big lap (maybe) Shelley would like to spend time up on the Murray River where she grew up on as a child. Free camping that allowed dogs with a toilet block near by would be desirable. As we currently live in a forest which is lovely during summer. Though becomes dreary during winter under the canopy. A get away with sunshine up on the Murray River would be welcome relief.
I take the point that hiring a caravan would make good sense. When I receive my payout I will looking into this as our first step into caravanning. I do not know how much it costs to hire a van though I can see this being money well spent. We would most likely do it without the dogs to see if I like the idea of towing a van around behind us. I used to love camping as child, with cadets and by myself. I took this up full time when in the RAAF. Though the RAAF know how to go about it in style. Always had porcelain loos available. Only spent one week in the scrub. The rest of the time was around airfields, army bases and caravan parks. Cannot call roughing it by a long shot.
Before I joined the RAAF I used to drive HR refrigerated trucks within a two hour circle of a capital city. I would like to think my heavy vehicle skills are still there and would hold me in good stead for towing a van. Anyhow this is early days and I wondering off and dreaming again.
Good to have dreams.
Kind regards,
Paul and Shelley.
-- Edited by Bassman on Saturday 18th of July 2015 10:03:48 PM
Bassman said
10:11 PM Jul 18, 2015
Graden wrote:
If you dont do it you may always be thinking "what iff".
This is on the money. I usually do not do things by half and do not want to be 82 in a nursing home thinking "what iff".
Thank you for your inputs. Please keep them coming.
Plendo said
11:18 PM Jul 18, 2015
Hi Paul and Shelley, when we spoke I think we mentioned free camping, but I do not think I mentioned some of the fantastic resources around to help find free or low cost camping spaces, that are typically more pet friendly than the big commercial caravan parks.
Have a look at Wikicamps, and also Camps Australia (edition 8 must be almost due). Camps was the bible for free campers until recently, but Wiki is quickly catching up. Some people prefer the paper book, others prefer the online approach.
I think once you see these resources the camp site names that people talk about will start to make sense.
Collo said
12:18 AM Jul 19, 2015
$160000 seems a lot. We spent 30000 on second hand Sterling(used three times...as new and 27000 on second hand tirton) see avatar. Very comfortable.
In regards to reversing....... practice(in a supermarket carpark, Sunday morning) and you will be fine.
Cant comment on van sites as we have only been away on short trips off season. Suggest you book ahead and if book out...go futher on! Not every site will be booked out surely?
-- Edited by Collo on Sunday 19th of July 2015 12:22:42 AM
WobblyNut said
06:19 AM Jul 19, 2015
I am a bit like Collo , spent $49k . 25 0n 2nd hand tug , still under warranty & 24 on 2nd
hand van 5y old , keep th rest for travel . Regarding reversing & such -
I drove Triple Road-Trains & Semis for 40 yrs & can back a triple easily .
And Still stuff up . & Yes I have th occasional ballsup backing th van.
-- Edited by WobblyNut on Sunday 19th of July 2015 06:23:44 AM
Netco said
06:34 AM Jul 19, 2015
Hi Paul & Shelley
Give it a go, your only here once, take care what ever you decide.
Col & Annette
done dreaming said
09:51 AM Jul 19, 2015
travel this land and feel alive again or stay at home and wait to die.Very simple choice really.
Kendo said
10:09 AM Jul 19, 2015
Hello again Paul and Shelley. See I said you'd get plenty of advice
I was looking at my facebook page just before logging into GN's forum and a picture came up that reminded me of our journey since getting back into camping 2 and a bit years ago. So I thought I'd bore you with our journey
I am a 30 year ex Mitsubishi employee so I can still buy their product with some discount others don't get, so a 4x4 Triton is the Tug of choice.
We bought a camper to find out if this was what we wanted to do, and we loved it. A breeze to tow and Plenty of room but just not quite what we wanted.
Next came the Pop Top caravan, and we loved that too. A breeze to tow again, space a little cramped but an annex solved most of that. This was going to do us for some time but you can never be sure what's around the corner.
The last image is similar to what we are 1-3 weeks from picking up. My dear old Mum passed away and left us enough money to upgrade into something that we could now afford and is going to see us right for sometime to come.
I certainly wouldn't recommend following what we did to the letter, but the principles of give it a go, see what you like, etc. was very much the way we went about it.
Thank you Jeff for your comments. I have been PM'd by one GN and he has informed me of his journeys through purchasing one type of van to the next until where he and his wife ended up today.
He has taken a similar path as yourself and finally came up with his final solution to caravanning. It is quite an enviable setup. Very well sorted out. They are able to run their split system air-conditioner off batteries/inverter and has enough solar cells on the roof of his van to keep the batteries fully charged whilst doing so. His setup is not cheap, though very impressionable. He and his wife can stay off the grid and caravan parks as long as they have water.
Jeff, I am a techno gadget guy, electrician and radio technician. I enjoy my solid state toys and this gentleman's off the grid setup struck a chord with me. I will do as advised by a number of respondents and that is hire a van first. My dear wife has replied she does not do camping. So travelling in comfort is her style. Shelley is not high maintenance by any stretch of the imagination. As long as things are warm and comfortable or cool depending on the season and she can have her pugs with her, life is good.
Tow motor at this stage is a BF 2006 Falcon. Time to fit a tow bar and possibly fit a LSD as well.
Everybody please keep the replies coming and thank you to those who have taken the time to comment.
Kind regards,
Paul and Shelley.
brickies said
10:52 AM Jul 19, 2015
Bassman you and you alone are the only one that can decide if it's the life for you , You ask the question you get lots of feed back you read between the lines and see where it fits with you . We were going to buy a motor home went to New Zealand hire one for 28 days came home and brought a caravan , But that will not be what other people would find , If you were to hire a caravan make sure it is simular to what you think you would like then when using it see what works and what dosen't , If you think you like it go look for your ideal caravan
capricorn and pisces said
02:38 PM Jul 19, 2015
Hi Paul ,
We have always been and done things a little bit different...we started out with a pop top 16ft van. At first, we were a bit apprehensive as we had only ever had tents, , about five different varieties, never been in a van before! Then in our little van we travelled Australia for two years (we forgot to go home) the best time of our lives.
Then we sold that and bought a second hand home built camper trailer , lotsa fun! After that we really upmarketed to a second hand Swan Outback. It was great, easy to tow and would follow the tug anywhere. Had some great adventures in that set up!
Then came a nasty accident and because of circumstances we now have a New Age Manta Ray complete with lovely ensuite...and guess what, we just love that too.
Different rigs for different circumstances. Just trust your instincts, just make sure you have fun and enjoy yourselves, if you are not having fun or enjoying the adventure then change the van or the circumstances.
I don't think there is one universal "right" or "wrong" answer.
cheers Capricorn
Phil C said
04:58 PM Jul 19, 2015
Hiya Paul and Shelly
When we decided on the caravan and grey nomad lifestyle we faced a similar dilemma. After a lot of research, asking questions and talking to people we decided on a Jayco Starcraft 20-62-2 which we have added a few extras.
We tow it with a Ford Ranger XL, purchased a few months after the caravan. I have to tell you, we have never regretted selling our house and doing this thing. Total bill $60,000 for the caravan and $40,000 for the ute.
Cheers BTW we are now broke, living on my airforce and aged pension.
HappyOne said
08:03 PM Jul 19, 2015
We have been contemplating this as a holiday option for some time and discussing with others who are doing it before deciding it's probably not for us. The depreciation on any rig on wheels is enormous, not to mention the additional fuel cost, maintenance, etc Then there's the difficulties of managing the thing on busy roads with trucks and others thinking they know all about how to drive better than everyone else. Then there's the cost of a powered site in popular areas up to $80 a night which is expensive rent in anyone's language. The alternative is to "free camp" and put up with no or limited toilet/shower and water supply facilities, or manage your own "waste" and hope you can find a dump point every couple of days. Lack of safety and security at free camps was also a consideration for us. We have decided that the money spent on a rig will be better spent on several hundred nights in 3 or 4 star hotels, cabins, etc where we can have plenty of hot running water, some room to move and a fully plumbed toilet, and not have to worry about overtaking, reversing, hitching up etc in all weathers. In retirement we want some comforts and convenience when travelling, not a lot of problems and difficulties and sheer hard work. Sharing communal laundries and toilet/shower blocks means you have to accept all types of behaviours from others who may not be as clean or considerate as you, and neighbours in caravan parks or even at free camp sites can be noisy, inconsiderate and selfish with generators, TV and radio noise, etc. This site has been very helpful in making up our minds that it's not for us tho we can quite understand it would suit many people.
Phil C said
08:29 PM Jul 19, 2015
HappyOne wrote:
We have been contemplating this as a holiday option for some time and discussing with others who are doing it before deciding it's probably not for us. The depreciation on any rig on wheels is enormous, not to mention the additional fuel cost, maintenance, etc Then there's the difficulties of managing the thing on busy roads with trucks and others thinking they know all about how to drive better than everyone else. Then there's the cost of a powered site in popular areas up to $80 a night which is expensive rent in anyone's language. The alternative is to "free camp" and put up with no or limited toilet/shower and water supply facilities, or manage your own "waste" and hope you can find a dump point every couple of days. Lack of safety and security at free camps was also a consideration for us. We have decided that the money spent on a rig will be better spent on several hundred nights in 3 or 4 star hotels, cabins, etc where we can have plenty of hot running water, some room to move and a fully plumbed toilet, and not have to worry about overtaking, reversing, hitching up etc in all weathers. In retirement we want some comforts and convenience when travelling, not a lot of problems and difficulties and sheer hard work. Sharing communal laundries and toilet/shower blocks means you have to accept all types of behaviours from others who may not be as clean or considerate as you, and neighbours in caravan parks or even at free camp sites can be noisy, inconsiderate and selfish with generators, TV and radio noise, etc. This site has been very helpful in making up our minds that it's not for us tho we can quite understand it would suit many people.
Welcome to the forum happyone
you make some valid points. However there are people like myself and my wife who have weighed all of this up, and decided it's the better way to retire despite some of the hardships you mention
Then again it's the differences and unique experiences that make the world go around.
Enjoy
TheHeaths said
09:00 PM Jul 19, 2015
Andrew,
you have obviously put a lot of thought into your decision, and fair enough.
Just remember that this also has some down sides that you may or may not have looked into.
1) 100% depreciation on the spend on accommodation. At least at the end of your caravanning travels, you would still have a saleable asset.
2) Additional expense for meals when in hotels compared to caravanning. This can be very costly compared to self catering. Obviously not an issue in cabins.
3) Cabins can cost upwards of $300 per night in peak/tourist periods, especially in popular touring spots. Hotels are even worse in many instances.
4) You will still be on the roads with the drivers you mention. If not, then expense of getting to locations and travel when there will be higher.
5) Availability of cabins and hotels during travel periods. Need to book and have a set itinerary to meet timing/bookings.
6) Still the chance that you will have less then desirable neighbours in cabins or hotels.
I do sincerely hope you enjoy your travels, but I honestly feel that you overstate the problems or issues, especially if you have yet to sample the lifestyle.
Good luck and happy exploring.
Graden said
10:56 PM Jul 19, 2015
Phil C wrote:
HappyOne wrote:
We have been contemplating this as a holiday option for some time and discussing with others who are doing it before deciding it's probably not for us. The depreciation on any rig on wheels is enormous, not to mention the additional fuel cost, maintenance, etc Then there's the difficulties of managing the thing on busy roads with trucks and others thinking they know all about how to drive better than everyone else. Then there's the cost of a powered site in popular areas up to $80 a night which is expensive rent in anyone's language. The alternative is to "free camp" and put up with no or limited toilet/shower and water supply facilities, or manage your own "waste" and hope you can find a dump point every couple of days. Lack of safety and security at free camps was also a consideration for us. We have decided that the money spent on a rig will be better spent on several hundred nights in 3 or 4 star hotels, cabins, etc where we can have plenty of hot running water, some room to move and a fully plumbed toilet, and not have to worry about overtaking, reversing, hitching up etc in all weathers. In retirement we want some comforts and convenience when travelling, not a lot of problems and difficulties and sheer hard work. Sharing communal laundries and toilet/shower blocks means you have to accept all types of behaviours from others who may not be as clean or considerate as you, and neighbours in caravan parks or even at free camp sites can be noisy, inconsiderate and selfish with generators, TV and radio noise, etc. This site has been very helpful in making up our minds that it's not for us tho we can quite understand it would suit many people.
Welcome to the forum happyone
you make some valid points. However there are people like myself and my wife who have weighed all of this up, and decided it's the better way to retire despite some of the hardships you mention
Then again it's the differences and unique experiences that make the world go around.
Enjoy
Hi Happyone, I think you have expressed some points of view that are perhaps a little extreme and maybe influenced by what you may have heard from dissapointed holiday people. We have been "vanning" for about 3-4 years now and have not experienced any of the concerns you have mentioned, in fact, we are shortly going on an extended holiday trip that will take about 2-3 months. If you buy a good known brand of caravan the depreciation, if you take care of van, is very low to none. You can have a van with all the luxuries to suit your pocket. Our van has full ensuite, reverse airconditioning, ducted heating, water tanks, fridge and freezer, hot cold water, shower, toilet, queen bed, wardrobes, radio, tv, sat tv, gas 240v and 12 volt electric. You don't have to "freedom camp" if you dont want too, there are thousands of places to stay at upto $35 night powered. We have never shared communal shower and occsionally use communal toilet- only after looking to see condition, as we use our own. We are also beyond retirement age and like our comfort, as do our two dogs. Our set up costs were under $85k for new van and 2nd hand tow vehicle. Running and maintenance costs are within budget for the pension, we dont have super etc. Neighbours in sites are usually not much different to neighbours in any street, some good a few not so good, but thats people every where. Security is no different to home life , you take normal precautions, dont leave temptation open. Why dont you dip your toe in and hire a van or motorhome for a short while and try it. You may like it. Whatever you do enjoy and make the most of it cos you only got 1 life.
PeterD said
12:48 PM Jul 20, 2015
Paul, I noticed in another thread you said My wife and I are yet to purchase our first van and tow vehicle. Our current car is a BF Falcon, no tow bar or LSD though both can be fitted.
The falcon will tow up to 2300 kg depending on the model and if it is an auto. There are plenty of second hand vans under 1800 kg tare and under $20k. I would suggest that you do some tyre kicking and select one of those and do some travelling until your package arrives. I know that your wife will think these vans will be a little rough but assure her it is only going to last until you have the finance.
Do some travelling and talk to others. It is no good going the whole hog then find the navigator takes a dislike to the lifestyle and you have to sell your van in a fire sale (there are plenty of these vans up north if you like to travel up there and do your research.) You may even find that you like the simple van and keep it. We have no desire to update our old van.
Back to your initial question on no space left, that only applies to the very popular places. You can visit those places without actually camping there, there are roadside rest areas of places like the Devils Marbles where you can overnight. You can get into most of the busy parks if you phone ahead a week or three. We are out in the Qld Channel Country and by altering our schedule to dodge things like the camel races and the Big Bash we have been arriving at half empty parks around 1400 in the afternoon. Dogs can limit you, if they do limit you too much during your trial period then attempt to wean the navigator off them.
Hello to the group.
Last month we were all excited planning and investigating vans and tow vehicles. Today I bumped into a friend at a Hamfest (Amateur Radio Swap Meet) and we started talking about caravans. His recommendation was for me to forget all about it. There are too many vans on the roads and not enough spots to house them. He mentioned he was at the Devils Marbles and all the spots where taken up early in the afternoon. One minute there is nobody there. Then caravaners descend on the spot in hoards.
I also mentioned my wife's desire to take her two pugs along. He said that it is difficult enough getting a spot now let alone taking dogs with you. The conversation drifted onto that I should open a discussion on a forum. That I would be better off flying and flying out of holiday destinations rather than buying a tow vehicle, caravan and spending thousands on fuel.
My friend also said he is glad he only bought a 16 foot van as that was big enough and difficult enough to tow and reverse with out going bigger.
So here I am. What do you current experienced caravaners think?
An off road van, a 4WD could cost upwards of $160k. Is it money well spent? Or should we just be happy with our caravan park cabin at Inverloch (no pets) and buy a Harley as he recommended?
Kind regards,
Paul and Shelley.
Hi Paul & Sherley,
Who has $160,000 to lash out.
What % would spend that kind of coin, unless you are prepared to forgo your castle.+ life style.
Do the somes.
Hey Jim
Yes it can be busy, especially at popular spots during the height of the season. I am sure it gets the same where your park cabin is during certain periods. We just travel out of season, or holidays if we can, and if not, make the best of it.
Yes, it can be a bit difficult to find pet friendly parks at times. It is possible, however, as we have done it for the past 8 years, finding parks in all the popular spots we have wanted to visit in NT, NSW, SA, Vic and Qld. We have used kennels and doggy day care sometimes, and seen whatever we have wanted. Now we have no dogs, it will be easier, but don't let your friend put you off.
There is no need to spend $160k on a van and vehicle. Ours has cost us ~ $85k, and many, many people travel comfortably with units costing a lot less than ours. The unit is not the trip, the places and people are. The cost depends entirely on YOU.
In the end, only you can decide if it is for you. I suggest that if you can, hire a van for a couple of small trips and see. We do love it, but to each their own.
Hope you work it out soon.
Tess
Hi Paul and Shelley
No one can tell you the best way to holiday and travel. Your "friend" might be well meaning, but you are the only ones who know what you do and don't like.
This forum is great for sharing experiences and giving advice. What you choose to do with it is nobody else's business but your own.
The more you read here the more you realise there is no set formula for how to go about traveling this wonderful country.
Start with what you can afford and give it a go. You might find that your "friend" was completely wrong and there is lots of fun to be had out there
Good luck guys and travel safe
Jeff
G'day Paul & Shelley . Welcome to GN's
Why not start out "moderate" than build up .
I had a small van , now we are at 17' & a 2.5 Turbo diesel tug.
Not ruling out going bigger & we are "setting up" for the occasional camping nights.
ie purchasing portable shower & loo . And yes we like our o-s travel , gunna miss out
this year , as #1 son has to have 4 wisdom teeth out . ...t happens . But next year ,
planning Buffalo NY & a lot of upstate NY . why mention that . Well to get there >
Customs & security out of Oz / customs in to US / security again at Lax / change planes
at Chicago / maybe security again = 30hrs & not much sleep + 2/3wks + $12/15k
Then same coming back . Even longer going west.
Yep , would rather set up a van every day than that , but we only have breakfast in the van,
as we did when I had a mobile home . If I am on holidays , I ain't working . I am eating out.
I would suggest hiring for your first couple of short trips to give it a try,
a tug and van or a motor home ( which is what I have) to find out your preferance.
Don 't let others decide for you but listen to various views before You decide.
Parking your rv is like parking a car, if the car park is full, you move onto the next car park.
Try before you buy is the best advice, but You decide.
Enjoy whatever you decide.
Regards
Colin
Gday...
While not $160,000 perhaps ..... but for myself - Tug $61,000 2nd hand + van $67,000 new. And around $4,000+ to set up for bush camping = $132,000 or thereabouts.
If you want to travel these days - it is quite easy to spend between $100,000 and $160,000+ getting 'set up' depending on your needs and budget. But remember that MANY do it with far less outlay.... and of course there are just as many who spend more.
It certainly can be very crowded depending on where your travels and preferences take you.
Winter up north (QLD/NT/WA) are PEAK times ... thousands of vans/travellers - but they are mainly at the 'attractions'. If you want to be a "tourist" rather than a just a traveller then you will have plenty of company to share your experiences. Some see that as a bonus. Additionally if you stay away from "up the centre", or "East Coast beaches" or "West Coast" in that time frame then it is also nowhere near as bad as you have been told.
If you want to travel outside May to Sept up north, then it is no where near as crowded if you want the 'journey of a lifetime' and absorb the natural, rural parts of Straya then you can spend much time away from the maddening crowds. Using the example of Devil's Marbles, if you are there before April ... or after Sept and like warmer weather ... you will find it is far less 'popular' - the Mexicans have all gone home because it has got too 'hot' for them.
Thousands also travel with dogs and enjoy it and have minimal problems. Pets can be a 'limiting factor' but definitely not a 'road block'. You just have to be prepared to be do your research for 'pet-friendly' venues ... no different to staying in cabins. Do motels do 'pet-friendly' ?
Handling a van is not that difficult - as with most things, practice makes improvement.
You could also do a towing course - very beneficial and rewarding. 
I guess, what I am really trying to say, and along with others on the forum, if you wanna do it ... just get on with it and DO IT!
It is the most rewarding lifestyle - and you really can structure how you travel to suit your preferences, wants, needs and budget.
Cheers - and enjoy the playground - John
-- Edited by rockylizard on Saturday 18th of July 2015 08:45:11 PM
I came in way under the $160,000 and have what is in my signature.
I am more than comfortable and love being in the playground full time with no back up or home base anymore. My residential address is wherever I prop the night.
Keep Safe out there.
well put rocklizard
That's $63.000 plus a few extras since purchase it's our first van so don't know for sure what we wanted so wouldn't buy new first, but this combination was what we recon will serve us well for a while anyway. I am a farmer so I have been driving semi's and multi combinations all my life not at all daunted by towing a little 5th wheeler, haven't traveled much yet but as advised above avoid the " popular " spots in the peak times it's not rocket science.
At least try it for yourself don't let sombody else's bad experience decide for you .
Dont end up on your death bed still wondering, get out there a try it, so you know for your self
Safe travels
Woody
Have you thought of a motor home?, no problem reversing and can be got for less than 100k for good 2nd hand. As others have said, go and try it with a hired van. Don't be put off by someone elses opinion, they may have not tried it. If you dont do it you may always be thinking "what iff".
Thank you to all those that have replied so far. I will be monitoring this post for as long as people respond.
What I have not mentioned is that I am expecting a very large retrenchment package and a possible fortnightly payments for quite a few years afterwards. The anticipated money is not burning a hole in my pocket. Though Shelley would like to take a six month long service leave of absence from her employer in the next couple of years. I have spoken with one GN whom has a very nice setup which can last of the grid as long as he has water. This setup is something at the moment that I would like to duplicate. Well at least I think I do.
Apart from a big lap (maybe) Shelley would like to spend time up on the Murray River where she grew up on as a child. Free camping that allowed dogs with a toilet block near by would be desirable. As we currently live in a forest which is lovely during summer. Though becomes dreary during winter under the canopy. A get away with sunshine up on the Murray River would be welcome relief.
I take the point that hiring a caravan would make good sense. When I receive my payout I will looking into this as our first step into caravanning. I do not know how much it costs to hire a van though I can see this being money well spent. We would most likely do it without the dogs to see if I like the idea of towing a van around behind us. I used to love camping as child, with cadets and by myself. I took this up full time when in the RAAF. Though the RAAF know how to go about it in style. Always had porcelain loos available. Only spent one week in the scrub. The rest of the time was around airfields, army bases and caravan parks. Cannot call roughing it by a long shot.
Before I joined the RAAF I used to drive HR refrigerated trucks within a two hour circle of a capital city. I would like to think my heavy vehicle skills are still there and would hold me in good stead for towing a van. Anyhow this is early days and I wondering off and dreaming again.
Good to have dreams.
Kind regards,
Paul and Shelley.
-- Edited by Bassman on Saturday 18th of July 2015 10:03:48 PM
This is on the money. I usually do not do things by half and do not want to be 82 in a nursing home thinking "what iff".
Thank you for your inputs. Please keep them coming.
Hi Paul and Shelley, when we spoke I think we mentioned free camping, but I do not think I mentioned some of the fantastic resources around to help find free or low cost camping spaces, that are typically more pet friendly than the big commercial caravan parks.
Have a look at Wikicamps, and also Camps Australia (edition 8 must be almost due). Camps was the bible for free campers until recently, but Wiki is quickly catching up. Some people prefer the paper book, others prefer the online approach.
I think once you see these resources the camp site names that people talk about will start to make sense.
$160000 seems a lot. We spent 30000 on second hand Sterling(used three times...as new and 27000 on second hand tirton) see avatar. Very comfortable.
In regards to reversing....... practice(in a supermarket carpark, Sunday morning) and you will be fine.
Cant comment on van sites as we have only been away on short trips off season. Suggest you book ahead and if book out...go futher on! Not every site will be booked out surely?
-- Edited by Collo on Sunday 19th of July 2015 12:22:42 AM
I am a bit like Collo , spent $49k . 25 0n 2nd hand tug , still under warranty & 24 on 2nd
hand van 5y old , keep th rest for travel . Regarding reversing & such -
I drove Triple Road-Trains & Semis for 40 yrs & can back a triple easily .
And Still stuff up . & Yes I have th occasional ballsup backing th van.
-- Edited by WobblyNut on Sunday 19th of July 2015 06:23:44 AM
Give it a go, your only here once, take care what ever you decide.
Col & Annette
Hello again Paul and Shelley. See I said you'd get plenty of advice
I was looking at my facebook page just before logging into GN's forum and a picture came up that reminded me of our journey since getting back into camping 2 and a bit years ago. So I thought I'd bore you with our journey
I am a 30 year ex Mitsubishi employee so I can still buy their product with some discount others don't get, so a 4x4 Triton is the Tug of choice.
We bought a camper to find out if this was what we wanted to do, and we loved it. A breeze to tow and Plenty of room but just not quite what we wanted.
Next came the Pop Top caravan, and we loved that too. A breeze to tow again, space a little cramped but an annex solved most of that. This was going to do us for some time but you can never be sure what's around the corner.
The last image is similar to what we are 1-3 weeks from picking up. My dear old Mum passed away and left us enough money to upgrade into something that we could now afford and is going to see us right for sometime to come.
I certainly wouldn't recommend following what we did to the letter, but the principles of give it a go, see what you like, etc. was very much the way we went about it.
Jeff
Thank you Jeff for your comments. I have been PM'd by one GN and he has informed me of his journeys through purchasing one type of van to the next until where he and his wife ended up today.
He has taken a similar path as yourself and finally came up with his final solution to caravanning. It is quite an enviable setup. Very well sorted out. They are able to run their split system air-conditioner off batteries/inverter and has enough solar cells on the roof of his van to keep the batteries fully charged whilst doing so. His setup is not cheap, though very impressionable. He and his wife can stay off the grid and caravan parks as long as they have water.
Jeff, I am a techno gadget guy, electrician and radio technician. I enjoy my solid state toys and this gentleman's off the grid setup struck a chord with me. I will do as advised by a number of respondents and that is hire a van first. My dear wife has replied she does not do camping. So travelling in comfort is her style. Shelley is not high maintenance by any stretch of the imagination. As long as things are warm and comfortable or cool depending on the season and she can have her pugs with her, life is good.
Tow motor at this stage is a BF 2006 Falcon. Time to fit a tow bar and possibly fit a LSD as well.
Everybody please keep the replies coming and thank you to those who have taken the time to comment.
Kind regards,
Paul and Shelley.
Hi Paul ,
We have always been and done things a little bit different...we started out with a pop top 16ft van. At first, we were a bit apprehensive as we had only ever had tents, , about five different varieties, never been in a van before! Then in our little van we travelled Australia for two years (we forgot to go home) the best time of our lives.
Then we sold that and bought a second hand home built camper trailer , lotsa fun! After that we really upmarketed to a second hand Swan Outback. It was great, easy to tow and would follow the tug anywhere. Had some great adventures in that set up!
Then came a nasty accident and because of circumstances we now have a New Age Manta Ray complete with lovely ensuite...and guess what, we just love that too.
Different rigs for different circumstances. Just trust your instincts, just make sure you have fun and enjoy yourselves, if you are not having fun or enjoying the adventure then change the van or the circumstances.
I don't think there is one universal "right" or "wrong" answer.
cheers Capricorn
When we decided on the caravan and grey nomad lifestyle we faced a similar dilemma. After a lot of research, asking questions and talking to people we decided on a Jayco Starcraft 20-62-2 which we have added a few extras.
We tow it with a Ford Ranger XL, purchased a few months after the caravan. I have to tell you, we have never regretted selling our house and doing this thing. Total bill $60,000 for the caravan and $40,000 for the ute.
Cheers BTW we are now broke, living on my airforce and aged pension.
We have been contemplating this as a holiday option for some time and discussing with others who are doing it before deciding it's probably not for us. The depreciation on any rig on wheels is enormous, not to mention the additional fuel cost, maintenance, etc Then there's the difficulties of managing the thing on busy roads with trucks and others thinking they know all about how to drive better than everyone else. Then there's the cost of a powered site in popular areas up to $80 a night which is expensive rent in anyone's language. The alternative is to "free camp" and put up with no or limited toilet/shower and water supply facilities, or manage your own "waste" and hope you can find a dump point every couple of days. Lack of safety and security at free camps was also a consideration for us. We have decided that the money spent on a rig will be better spent on several hundred nights in 3 or 4 star hotels, cabins, etc where we can have plenty of hot running water, some room to move and a fully plumbed toilet, and not have to worry about overtaking, reversing, hitching up etc in all weathers. In retirement we want some comforts and convenience when travelling, not a lot of problems and difficulties and sheer hard work. Sharing communal laundries and toilet/shower blocks means you have to accept all types of behaviours from others who may not be as clean or considerate as you, and neighbours in caravan parks or even at free camp sites can be noisy, inconsiderate and selfish with generators, TV and radio noise, etc. This site has been very helpful in making up our minds that it's not for us tho we can quite understand it would suit many people.
Welcome to the forum happyone
you make some valid points. However there are people like myself and my wife who have weighed all of this up, and decided it's the better way to retire despite some of the hardships you mention
Then again it's the differences and unique experiences that make the world go around.
Enjoy
you have obviously put a lot of thought into your decision, and fair enough.
Just remember that this also has some down sides that you may or may not have looked into.
1) 100% depreciation on the spend on accommodation. At least at the end of your caravanning travels, you would still have a saleable asset.
2) Additional expense for meals when in hotels compared to caravanning. This can be very costly compared to self catering. Obviously not an issue in cabins.
3) Cabins can cost upwards of $300 per night in peak/tourist periods, especially in popular touring spots. Hotels are even worse in many instances.
4) You will still be on the roads with the drivers you mention. If not, then expense of getting to locations and travel when there will be higher.
5) Availability of cabins and hotels during travel periods. Need to book and have a set itinerary to meet timing/bookings.
6) Still the chance that you will have less then desirable neighbours in cabins or hotels.
I do sincerely hope you enjoy your travels, but I honestly feel that you overstate the problems or issues, especially if you have yet to sample the lifestyle.
Good luck and happy exploring.
Hi Happyone, I think you have expressed some points of view that are perhaps a little extreme and maybe influenced by what you may have heard from dissapointed holiday people. We have been "vanning" for about 3-4 years now and have not experienced any of the concerns you have mentioned, in fact, we are shortly going on an extended holiday trip that will take about 2-3 months. If you buy a good known brand of caravan the depreciation, if you take care of van, is very low to none. You can have a van with all the luxuries to suit your pocket. Our van has full ensuite, reverse airconditioning, ducted heating, water tanks, fridge and freezer, hot cold water, shower, toilet, queen bed, wardrobes, radio, tv, sat tv, gas 240v and 12 volt electric. You don't have to "freedom camp" if you dont want too, there are thousands of places to stay at upto $35 night powered. We have never shared communal shower and occsionally use communal toilet- only after looking to see condition, as we use our own. We are also beyond retirement age and like our comfort, as do our two dogs. Our set up costs were under $85k for new van and 2nd hand tow vehicle. Running and maintenance costs are within budget for the pension, we dont have super etc. Neighbours in sites are usually not much different to neighbours in any street, some good a few not so good, but thats people every where. Security is no different to home life , you take normal precautions, dont leave temptation open. Why dont you dip your toe in and hire a van or motorhome for a short while and try it. You may like it. Whatever you do enjoy and make the most of it cos you only got 1 life.
Paul, I noticed in another thread you said
The falcon will tow up to 2300 kg depending on the model and if it is an auto. There are plenty of second hand vans under 1800 kg tare and under $20k. I would suggest that you do some tyre kicking and select one of those and do some travelling until your package arrives. I know that your wife will think these vans will be a little rough but assure her it is only going to last until you have the finance.
Do some travelling and talk to others. It is no good going the whole hog then find the navigator takes a dislike to the lifestyle and you have to sell your van in a fire sale (there are plenty of these vans up north if you like to travel up there and do your research.) You may even find that you like the simple van and keep it. We have no desire to update our old van.
Back to your initial question on no space left, that only applies to the very popular places. You can visit those places without actually camping there, there are roadside rest areas of places like the Devils Marbles where you can overnight. You can get into most of the busy parks if you phone ahead a week or three. We are out in the Qld Channel Country and by altering our schedule to dodge things like the camel races and the Big Bash we have been arriving at half empty parks around 1400 in the afternoon. Dogs can limit you, if they do limit you too much during your trial period then attempt to wean the navigator off them.