What would you say ( If anything) to the owner of a Badly Swaying Caravan
PeterInSa said
09:07 PM Jun 19, 2015
If he/van/wife and young daughters were at the next fuel stop and was travelling with a friend in a 2 door expensive European car.
We were doing around 95km/hr towing our tandem van, the above owner followed me for some time in hilly/flat country on a good wide road. When he got out to pass me, I slowed down to allow a quicker pass, he must have been doing a good 110Km/hr and when he pulled back into our lane in front of me the swaying was quite bad. The swaying lessened as he backed off to around 105 but happened every now and then due to variations in the road surface.
At the fuel stop, I could see that the around 1970's van in good condition, with the single axle wheels in the centre of the van if not slight to the front, which would not help with the stability, the van was higher in the front than the rear and no stabilisers were used.
He was in deep conversation with his fellow driver. My comments were left unsaid..............
Probably also in part because some time ago talking to a fellow new Tandem van owner I mentioned that his wheels were well towards the back on his caravan and his towbar/ vehicle rating could be exceed and he really did not want to know.
How Van manufacturers could design/make/sell said vans makes me wonder. With owners new to caravanning thinking that this swaying is normal.
Peter
Dougwe said
09:16 PM Jun 19, 2015
Swaying vans....The cause of many crashes and deaths.
I think these days though Peter, you are safer to keep quiet and keep out of their way. You could end up a victim of road rage otherwise.
Keep Safe
DOUG
rockylizard said
09:26 PM Jun 19, 2015
Gday...
I reckon I would have sauntered up and said "Gday Mate".
(given it was a 1970s van) I would have said "Pretty interesting van, how long have ya had it?"
"Really. So how have you found it?"
"Yeah and how does it tow?"
Now, having reached this point, it would depend entirely on the response from the bloke.
He may know it is a bit of handful sometimes - and may be going to get it sorted out.
Perhaps he had only just picked it up .. or picked it up recently.
If he wasn't aware of the 'swaying' you had observed, you could introduce that and then again, wait for the response.
If the bloke gets stroppy - ya just say "Well, I had better get on - See ya later mate." and leave him all alone.
He may be a raw recruit, inexperienced and smart enough to know he can take helpful, courteous advice from an experienced vanner.
To simply say nothing is almost as bad as his ignorance - if it is ignorance. You and all the other road users they are going to be travelling with and around are going to continue to be in potential jeopardy.
I would definitely try to strike up a friendly conversation and see if the situation allows the introduction of some helpful advice ... not a dictatorial lesson.
cheers - and hope I don't meet that van anywhere - John
hako said
10:41 PM Jun 19, 2015
The bloke towing the swaying van would be very aware of what was happening and clearly accepts it. Commenting on it would have him agree with it happening. Lecturing him on it would bring the conversation to an end but John's approach is the commonsense way of broaching the subject.
The old saying 'you catch more flies with honey than vinegar' always works.
rockylizard said
08:03 AM Jun 20, 2015
hako wrote:
The bloke towing the swaying van would be very aware of what was happening and clearly accepts it. Commenting on it would have him agree with it happening.~~~SNIP
Gday...
Just because they are towing a van that shows instability when going too fast, or due to variations in the road surface, does not in any way mean the driver "clearly accepts it".
Every one of us has a differing level of experience to draw on in many circumstances. The driver may not like the swaying tendency of the van, but because it isn't swaying constantly, in their experience, that is 'normal.
Surely every one of us on this forum have sufficient experience, knowledge and empathy with fellow travellers that we would engage in a conversation, exchanging information and views, not just rock up and tell someone their 'failings'.
I find it a little unnerving that, when observing a potentially dangerous situation, to a fellow-traveller, ourselves or the general public, we would not take some steps to assist.
If you encountered a broken bottle on the floor when you enter a store do you just step over or around it ... leaving the potential danger still there for someone else to suffer? I doubt it - you would tell the shop-owner, or even shuffle the glass out of the path of those following.
Cheers - and happy and safe travel - John
Woody n Sue said
08:09 AM Jun 20, 2015
I am with John 100. % start a conversation gauge his knowledge and experience and politely inquire / inform him of the situation and how to overcome it
PeterInSa said
09:57 AM Jun 20, 2015
Unfortunately in both the situations I mentioned the only way to overcome the problem is to sell the caravan, or at a major expense do a re engineering job.
Peter
Bruce and Bev said
03:01 PM Jun 20, 2015
I go with what John would do. To do nothing and then further on finding he'd crashed and people were injured (or you heard about it on TV that night) - you'd probably have the guilts.
But I can also see it from Dougs point of view to - people are so much more inclined to get physical over what was meant to be a helpful gesture
Santa said
09:34 AM Jun 21, 2015
I would mind my own business.
Leave it to the police to deal with, that's their job, our job as drivers is to remain safe on the roads, not to act as vigilante law enforcers or amateur psychologists.
It's easy enough to become involved in a road rage incident these days without going out of your way to stir the pot.
rockylizard said
10:07 AM Jun 21, 2015
Santa wrote:
I would mind my own business.
Leave it to the police to deal with, that's their job, our job as drivers is to remain safe on the roads, not to act as vigilante law enforcers or amateur psychologists.
It's easy enough to become involved in a road rage incident these days without going out of your way to stir the pot.
Gday...
I acknowledge your opinion, Santa, and can understand how you must feel.
However, I find the attitude/opinion quite negative.
On what grounds will the Police intervene in a van while being towed along the road. The officials whose 'job' it would be are the RTA, VicRoads etc of the various states - and I don't think they have pulled up a van because it gets up a bit of a sway on 'variable road surfaces' or when the driver drives at high speeds.
I consider your opinion unfounded that talking to a fellow traveller about something to do with a potentially unsafe condition with their van is being vigilante.
Showing empathy with the feelings of others about how they may react or feel if given information of a potentially unsafe situation AND then sensible, thoughtful advice on how to possibly remedy that situation does not require anyone to be a psychologist - amateur or otherwise. Surely it is just common sense - treat others as you would wish others treat you.
To then extrapolate a friendly conversation with a fellow traveller to road rage is a considerable leap.
However, I definitely fully agree with the comment that "our job as drivers is to remain safe on the roads" .... both ourselves and our fellow travellers.
Cheers - and happy, safe and interactive travelling - John
Santa said
10:35 AM Jun 21, 2015
rockylizard wrote:
Santa wrote:
I would mind my own business.
Leave it to the police to deal with, that's their job, our job as drivers is to remain safe on the roads, not to act as vigilante law enforcers or amateur psychologists.
It's easy enough to become involved in a road rage incident these days without going out of your way to stir the pot.
Gday...
I acknowledge your opinion, Santa, and can understand how you must feel.
However, I find the attitude/opinion quite negative.
On what grounds will the Police intervene in a van while being towed along the road. The officials whose 'job' it would be are the RTA, VicRoads etc of the various states - and I don't think they have pulled up a van because it gets up a bit of a sway on 'variable road surfaces' or when the driver drives at high speeds.
I consider your opinion unfounded that talking to a fellow traveller about something to do with a potentially unsafe condition with their van is being vigilante.
Showing empathy with the feelings of others about how they may react or feel if given information of a potentially unsafe situation AND then sensible, thoughtful advice on how to possibly remedy that situation does not require anyone to be a psychologist - amateur or otherwise. Surely it is just common sense - treat others as you would wish others treat you.
To then extrapolate a friendly conversation with a fellow traveller to road rage is a considerable leap.
However, I definitely fully agree with the comment that "our job as drivers is to remain safe on the roads" .... both ourselves and our fellow travellers.
Cheers - and happy, safe and interactive travelling - John
I stand by what I say John.
Mind your own business and all will be well, get involved in the goings on of others and your making a rod for your own back.
rockylizard said
10:45 AM Jun 21, 2015
Gday...
Geez I hope you aren't driving behind me and notice something potentially dangerous on my van and allow me to head toward a sad ending in ignorant bliss.
Cheers - and safe travellling - John
PeterInSa said
11:05 AM Jun 21, 2015
If you put yourself in the shoes of the new owner of the $70,000 tandem van, I was virtually telling him that just because his wife like the internal layout of the van, that even mounting/placing both water tanks behind the wheels, even if there was room for them and there wasn't, the weight of the van( to me) on the towbar still exceed to towbar and the vehicle capacity and was illegal and he would not be covered by insurance in the case of certain accidents and the best way of solving the problem was to sell the van.
Here is somebody telling you nicely, that you made a bad decision and I suspect I may not have been the first person to tell/repeat the bad news to him. Our conversation ended soon after.
In the case of the swaying caravan, the driver was keeping up with his mate in a car not towing anything. He probably made the decision to buy the caravan without towing it, let alone towing it above 100Km/hr, partner liked the layout, looked good on the outside for say $6,000, but with the wheels towards the front of the van, stability above 80Km/hr was always going to be sus, no matter how you loaded the van.
So somebody telling him to only travel at 80km/hr for the next 800Km to the next capital city and let his mate go on ahead/whatever, and to sell the van as the best option( ie you did not make a wise purchase) to me would not go down well no matter how its presented.
And yes I would have the "guilts" if the van was involved in an accident, but am now wary of giving unasked for advice especially if it concerns $ or loss of face/ego to the recipient.
Peter
-- Edited by PeterInSa on Sunday 21st of June 2015 11:07:44 AM
Kendo said
11:07 AM Jun 21, 2015
I would prefer to be able to sleep at night knowing I tried to help.
If the advice is rejected for what ever reason, then at least I tried.
If the negative attitudes shown here were to prevail. Then why does this forum even exist.
Jeff
Santa said
11:17 AM Jun 21, 2015
rockylizard wrote:
Gday...
Geez I hope you aren't driving behind me and notice something potentially dangerous on my van and allow me to head toward a sad ending in ignorant bliss.
Cheers - and safe travellling - John
Entirely different situation John, of course I would tell a fellow driver if there was a mechanical problem.
However, I'm not interested in embarking on a crusade to educate drivers as to their ability or otherwise to drive, control, load and maintain their steed of choice.
My priority, when I encounter a driver whose skills are lacking is to give em plenty of room and stay out of their way.
The original question posed was "What would you say ( If anything) to the owner of a Badly Swaying Caravan" I've answered that question, I saw no reason to challenge your thoughts on the subject, even though I don't entirely agree with them, I respect your opinion, please afford me the same courtesy.
If you want to provoke an argument criticise peoples driving skills or their children, works every time
-- Edited by Santa on Sunday 21st of June 2015 11:29:14 AM
Santa said
11:23 AM Jun 21, 2015
Kendo wrote:Then why does this forum even exist.
Jeff
It exists a a discussion forum, i.e. for the exchange of idea's Jeff, not a venue to force your personal opinions down the throats of others.
Kendo said
02:11 PM Jun 21, 2015
If my post about trying to help others even though I risk ruffling feathers offends you mate. Then I humbly apologise.
I'm a little puzzled as too why my simple statement would cause you to make such a caustic and personal attack. Your not being negative are you? and with an alias like Santa too.
lyn-n-ken said
09:26 PM Jun 21, 2015
well I would rather try tell them about it , nicely, rather than see it on the news and recognize the car and van in an accident killing some poor innocent family,
if they took offence the I would walk away and call the police and report it.
if it were my van I would want to know and always welcome advice.
Baz421 said
10:48 PM Jun 21, 2015
I'm with John on this one.
IMHO it's the principle, the same as the recent thread "would you stop to assist someone" and by that I mean would you consider it, as a responsible citizen to "assist" someone.
I agree you do it tactfully, but I am thinking that next week he may be coming toward me swaying etc etc.
Often people don't know what is acceptable or what's likely to be dangerous and IMHO they normally thanks you for pointing things out to them, however they may not agree with or heed and advice,,, but at least you made the effort.
If he/van/wife and young daughters were at the next fuel stop and was travelling with a friend in a 2 door expensive European car.
We were doing around 95km/hr towing our tandem van, the above owner followed me for some time in hilly/flat country on a good wide road. When he got out to pass me, I slowed down to allow a quicker pass, he must have been doing a good 110Km/hr and when he pulled back into our lane in front of me the swaying was quite bad. The swaying lessened as he backed off to around 105 but happened every now and then due to variations in the road surface.
At the fuel stop, I could see that the around 1970's van in good condition, with the single axle wheels in the centre of the van if not slight to the front, which would not help with the stability, the van was higher in the front than the rear and no stabilisers were used.
He was in deep conversation with his fellow driver. My comments were left unsaid..............
Probably also in part because some time ago talking to a fellow new Tandem van owner I mentioned that his wheels were well towards the back on his caravan and his towbar/ vehicle rating could be exceed and he really did not want to know.
How Van manufacturers could design/make/sell said vans makes me wonder. With owners new to caravanning thinking that this swaying is normal.
Peter
I think these days though Peter, you are safer to keep quiet and keep out of their way. You could end up a victim of road rage otherwise.
Keep Safe
DOUG
Gday...
I reckon I would have sauntered up and said "Gday Mate".
(given it was a 1970s van) I would have said "Pretty interesting van, how long have ya had it?"
"Really. So how have you found it?"
"Yeah and how does it tow?"
Now, having reached this point, it would depend entirely on the response from the bloke.
He may know it is a bit of handful sometimes - and may be going to get it sorted out.
Perhaps he had only just picked it up .. or picked it up recently.
If he wasn't aware of the 'swaying' you had observed, you could introduce that and then again, wait for the response.
If the bloke gets stroppy - ya just say "Well, I had better get on - See ya later mate." and leave him all alone.
He may be a raw recruit, inexperienced and smart enough to know he can take helpful, courteous advice from an experienced vanner.
To simply say nothing is almost as bad as his ignorance - if it is ignorance. You and all the other road users they are going to be travelling with and around are going to continue to be in potential jeopardy.
I would definitely try to strike up a friendly conversation and see if the situation allows the introduction of some helpful advice ... not a dictatorial lesson.
cheers - and hope I don't meet that van anywhere
- John
The old saying 'you catch more flies with honey than vinegar' always works.
Gday...
Just because they are towing a van that shows instability when going too fast, or due to variations in the road surface, does not in any way mean the driver "clearly accepts it".
Every one of us has a differing level of experience to draw on in many circumstances. The driver may not like the swaying tendency of the van, but because it isn't swaying constantly, in their experience, that is 'normal.
Surely every one of us on this forum have sufficient experience, knowledge and empathy with fellow travellers that we would engage in a conversation, exchanging information and views, not just rock up and tell someone their 'failings'.
I find it a little unnerving that, when observing a potentially dangerous situation, to a fellow-traveller, ourselves or the general public, we would not take some steps to assist.
If you encountered a broken bottle on the floor when you enter a store do you just step over or around it ... leaving the potential danger still there for someone else to suffer? I doubt it - you would tell the shop-owner, or even shuffle the glass out of the path of those following.
Cheers - and happy and safe travel - John
Peter
But I can also see it from Dougs point of view to - people are so much more inclined to get physical over what was meant to be a helpful gesture
I would mind my own business.
Leave it to the police to deal with, that's their job, our job as drivers is to remain safe on the roads, not to act as vigilante law enforcers or amateur psychologists.
It's easy enough to become involved in a road rage incident these days without going out of your way to stir the pot.
Gday...
However, I find the attitude/opinion quite negative.
On what grounds will the Police intervene in a van while being towed along the road. The officials whose 'job' it would be are the RTA, VicRoads etc of the various states - and I don't think they have pulled up a van because it gets up a bit of a sway on 'variable road surfaces' or when the driver drives at high speeds.
I consider your opinion unfounded that talking to a fellow traveller about something to do with a potentially unsafe condition with their van is being vigilante.
Showing empathy with the feelings of others about how they may react or feel if given information of a potentially unsafe situation AND then sensible, thoughtful advice on how to possibly remedy that situation does not require anyone to be a psychologist - amateur or otherwise.
Surely it is just common sense - treat others as you would wish others treat you.
To then extrapolate a friendly conversation with a fellow traveller to road rage is a considerable leap.
However, I definitely fully agree with the comment that "our job as drivers is to remain safe on the roads" .... both ourselves and our fellow travellers.
Cheers - and happy, safe and interactive travelling - John
I stand by what I say John.
Mind your own business and all will be well, get involved in the goings on of others and your making a rod for your own back.
Gday...
Geez I hope you aren't driving behind me and notice something potentially dangerous on my van and allow me to head toward a sad ending in ignorant bliss.
Cheers - and safe travellling - John
If you put yourself in the shoes of the new owner of the $70,000 tandem van, I was virtually telling him that just because his wife like the internal layout of the van, that even mounting/placing both water tanks behind the wheels, even if there was room for them and there wasn't, the weight of the van( to me) on the towbar still exceed to towbar and the vehicle capacity and was illegal and he would not be covered by insurance in the case of certain accidents and the best way of solving the problem was to sell the van.
Here is somebody telling you nicely, that you made a bad decision and I suspect I may not have been the first person to tell/repeat the bad news to him. Our conversation ended soon after.
In the case of the swaying caravan, the driver was keeping up with his mate in a car not towing anything. He probably made the decision to buy the caravan without towing it, let alone towing it above 100Km/hr, partner liked the layout, looked good on the outside for say $6,000, but with the wheels towards the front of the van, stability above 80Km/hr was always going to be sus, no matter how you loaded the van.
So somebody telling him to only travel at 80km/hr for the next 800Km to the next capital city and let his mate go on ahead/whatever, and to sell the van as the best option( ie you did not make a wise purchase) to me would not go down well no matter how its presented.
And yes I would have the "guilts" if the van was involved in an accident, but am now wary of giving unasked for advice especially if it concerns $ or loss of face/ego to the recipient.
Peter
-- Edited by PeterInSa on Sunday 21st of June 2015 11:07:44 AM
I would prefer to be able to sleep at night knowing I tried to help.
If the advice is rejected for what ever reason, then at least I tried.
If the negative attitudes shown here were to prevail. Then why does this forum even exist.
Jeff
Entirely different situation John, of course I would tell a fellow driver if there was a mechanical problem.
However, I'm not interested in embarking on a crusade to educate drivers as to their ability or otherwise to drive, control, load and maintain their steed of choice.
My priority, when I encounter a driver whose skills are lacking is to give em plenty of room and stay out of their way.
The original question posed was "What would you say ( If anything) to the owner of a Badly Swaying Caravan" I've answered that question, I saw no reason to challenge your thoughts on the subject, even though I don't entirely agree with them, I respect your opinion, please afford me the same courtesy.
If you want to provoke an argument criticise peoples driving skills or their children, works every time
-- Edited by Santa on Sunday 21st of June 2015 11:29:14 AM
It exists a a discussion forum, i.e. for the exchange of idea's Jeff, not a venue to force your personal opinions down the throats of others.
I'm a little puzzled as too why my simple statement would cause you to make such a caustic and personal attack. Your not being negative are you? and with an alias like Santa too.
well I would rather try tell them about it , nicely, rather than see it on the news and recognize the car and van in an accident killing some poor innocent family,
if they took offence the I would walk away and call the police and report it.
if it were my van I would want to know and always welcome advice.
I'm with John on this one.
IMHO it's the principle, the same as the recent thread "would you stop to assist someone" and by that I mean would you consider it, as a responsible citizen to "assist" someone.
I agree you do it tactfully, but I am thinking that next week he may be coming toward me swaying etc etc.
Often people don't know what is acceptable or what's likely to be dangerous and IMHO they normally thanks you for pointing things out to them, however they may not agree with or heed and advice,,, but at least you made the effort.