I've just read that article. They are complaining of small campervans and caravans parking there. What is that supposed to mean? Mine is a small campervan and is fully self contained.
Why wouldn't caravans be allowed, I can't work that one out.
Well, that's one town I won't have to bother going into again.
Mike196 said
03:52 PM Jun 11, 2015
The thread about this on the Caravaners Forum goes for pages and pages, I ran out of popcorn about halfway down the first page.!
Spydermann said
04:30 PM Jun 11, 2015
Happywanderer wrote:
I've just read that article. They are complaining of small campervans and caravans parking there. What is that supposed to mean? Mine is a small campervan and is fully self contained. Why wouldn't caravans be allowed, I can't work that one out. Well, that's one town I won't have to bother going into again.
I could not believe the comment "They (2 park owners) also provided photographic evidence of small campervans, caravans, roof-top campers, tents, mini buses, four-wheel-drives, cars and people with swags using the park." as I thought that was what it was all about. I wouldn't let a local newspaper item like that put you off visiting again.
rockylizard said
05:44 PM Jun 11, 2015
Gday...
This is the website for Pioneer Park Freedom Camp -
Given all the conditions stipulated in that page, I would find it quite unwelcoming to stay there.
A snip of Pioneer Park -
Perhaps some background information. This was what was in the Caravanning News when this "free" camp was announced.
The "press release" seems to fairly clearly lay out the conditions of the trial -
Park owners are against the trial;
Self-contained RVs to stay for two nights;
The facility will close if overnighters misuse the area;
The facility will close if the van parks prove it is having a "damaging impact";
Four van parks will be paid $10 every time a non-guest uses their dump point.
Add to these conditions those within the website for the freedom camp and it certainly was a very restrictive arrangement.
I fully understand how media reports are often misleading or one-sided, but it would appear quite a few of the "conditions of approval" have been violated. It is interesting that some of the non-compliances are being explained away due to "unforeseen" circumstances.
It has always been, and quite probably will always be, difficult for all concerned to justify the introduction and continuance of 'freedom' camps - for no charge - within the city boundaries of the larger towns.
The provision of the facility was only ever going to be a 12 month trial - and there was dissatisfaction with the Council decision even before the proposal was initially mooted and that dissatisfaction has continued through to this time by those within the Ballarat community.
Maybe the "success" of the Freedom Camp, which seems to have attracted large numbers of campers right down to people in swags, has been contributed to by the likes of Wikicamps etc - very widespread, perhaps misleading, advertising of its existence.
I can only suggest that it is fast approaching the time when "travellers" must realise that staying at such facilities, provided by a community within the boundaries of a city, is for an one or two nights only. If the need is to "spend some time in the area" then stay in a facility that is designed to handle the numbers for extended times. The hackneyed phrase 'there's no such thing as a free lunch' applies - SOMEONE has to pay for what is obtained 'free'.
I know my opinion does not meet with the majority of travellers (let alone the majority of members on this forum) but some common sense needs to be applied to where one can camp for more than a night - particularly within a city.
Cheers - and happy travelling - John
Bruce and Bev said
07:43 PM Jun 11, 2015
if so many local people were against the free park in the first place, why did the Council do it?
Surely they should listen to their ratepayers, not nomads (even if we usually contribute to retailers and tourist companies)
I assume this wasn't inspired by the CMCA - as they try to make it for self-contained RVs only (motor homes with grey water tanks)
Polar Bear said
10:42 PM Jun 11, 2015
Too bad as its a great trail. Though as stated the conditions are clear, and council should 'police' it properly then maybe the perceived problems would not be as bad. Council needs to grow a set....... instead of kowtowing to the minority. The minority wreck it for the majority as usual. Anyway its well documented how most campers/travellers feel about freedom camping so I wont further my soap box.
Bugsy said
06:23 AM Jun 12, 2015
It was actually inspired by two local residents and since when has the definition of self contained RVs been motorhomes with grey water tanks. Gross misrepresentation there, I guess some people can't resist taking a shot at the CMCA, probably the one club in Australia that has done more for the RV public than any other.
rockylizard said
07:38 AM Jun 12, 2015
Gday...
My observation, if we are to assume the information in the news article is fairly accurate, is that the problem is NOT the council, community residents, caravan parks or the CMCA.
The problem is that "travellers" continue to do what so many seem to do all over this country - simply abuse the facilities provided.
Well-meaning communities will support providing and maintaining such facilities for the wide-ranging reasons so often put forward - if the 'rules' for usage at the site are adhered to.
If that happened then there would be no case for any lobby group to close facilities.
Until 'travellers' wake up and stop being so "ME" about how and where they stop, these situations will continue to raise their head.
People such as the members on this forum (and similar caravanner forums) are not the culprits - the far greater majority of 'travellers' don't even know these forums exist - especially genus backpacker.
Those 'travellers' are not even aware of the problem because they ARE the problem.
That is what makes it such an issue for people like members here - and on other caravanning forums - who care.
Cheers - and enjoy a campfire in the bush instead - John
JayDee said
07:45 AM Jun 12, 2015
This an extract from the Ballarat newspaper
Pioneer Park
A DECISION on a controversial 12-month Pioneer Park freedom camping trial has been delayed by the City of Ballarat.
Councillor Peter Innes put forward an alternative motion at the council meeting on Wednesday evening.
He requested a deferral until after a mediation meeting was held between the Campervan and Motorhome Club of Australia, Ballarat caravan park owners and the Victorian Caravan Parks Association.
Cr Innes said the views of all parties needed to be heard by councillors before a final decision was made.
The trial still has two months to run but claims about the Wendouree sites alleged misuse, including people overstaying the two permitted nights and not meeting the self-containment water and toilet measures, pushed it prematurely back into the council chamber.
The issues raised were by caravan park operators who said site nights were down 120 in December 2014 compared with the previous year, with a further drop of 212 nights in January. In February, one of the parks was down 58 site nights.
Operators also provided photographic evidence of small campervans, caravans, roof-top campers, tents, mini buses, four-wheel-drives, cars and people with swags using the park.
But CMCA member Grant Tillett disputed all the claims and maintained the site was monitored five times a day.
I totally dismiss that harm of any kind is being caused to the park, Mr Tillett said.
The Courier visited Pioneer Park site on Thursday.
There was one recreational vehicle and another smaller van parked at opposite ends of the camping grounds.
Queensland couple Tony and Sue, who did not want their last name printed, said they had slept in their campervan at the site for two nights.
Tony estimated in that time, he spent between $300 and $400 in the city on groceries, petrol and shopping.
Tony said if the freedom camping ground wasnt in Ballarat he and his wife would have passed through. If we cant stop somewhere, then we just keep going, Tony said.
Another man, who did not want to be identified, was also staying at the site in his van and said he was on the pension and could not afford caravan park fees.
He said he had found the stay at Pioneer Park frustrating because there was no water or generator connection to the site.
"He said he had found the stay at Pioneer Park frustrating because there was no water or generator connection to the site."
What does this guy want from a free camp area. He should have had enough water on board. I will leave the gennie bit alone!!!After all it is not the HILTON and it is FREE.
Jay&Dee
rockylizard said
07:54 AM Jun 12, 2015
Gday...
QUOTE: The Courier visited Pioneer Park site on Thursday.
There was one recreational vehicle and another smaller van parked at opposite ends of the camping grounds. END QUOTE
I wonder what The Courier was implying ... it is winter in Ballarat ! ! ..... it would be better weather in the Antarctica
The caravan park "statistics" from December > February are more pertinent, when most tourists would be around.
Cheers - John
Spydermann said
09:13 AM Jun 12, 2015
The park is a long way from retail facilities, even fuel. It's next to the freeway for noise and McCains for the smell but it is conveniently located as you go past Ballarat. OK for 1 or 2 nights. The issue appears to be using the edges of the park for disposing of liquid waste. Leaving rubbish seemed not to be a big issue. I'd reckon lots of free / roadside camping would be experiencing similar issues when no toilets.
Ballarat weather is not as bad as people say. The outer Eastern suburbs of Melbourne have colder temps, more rain and more rainy days. We have had ~ zero degrees in the morning for the last few days but no wind, no cloud and 10-14 degrees. Just brilliant. Ideal for packing the van to travel up the coast in Qld.
aussietraveller said
09:13 AM Jun 12, 2015
An additional bit of information that may well provide some balance to this argument is to ask the local chamber of commerce or local shopkeepers how much of an increase they have experienced during the time of the free camp trial.
There are far mor retail stores and service stations than that will have received a windfall from this experiment and local councillors need to think about overall outcomes not just listen to two caravan park owners who are probably charging over the top fees anyway.
FYI.
http://www.thecourier.com.au/story/3133526/pioneer-park-freedom-camping-trial-could-be-cancelled/?cs=62
Same old story. Complaints from Caravan Parks !!
Why wouldn't caravans be allowed, I can't work that one out.
Well, that's one town I won't have to bother going into again.
The thread about this on the Caravaners Forum goes for pages and pages, I ran out of popcorn about halfway down the first page.!
I could not believe the comment "They (2 park owners) also provided photographic evidence of small campervans, caravans, roof-top campers, tents, mini buses, four-wheel-drives, cars and people with swags using the park." as I thought that was what it was all about. I wouldn't let a local newspaper item like that put you off visiting again.
Gday...
This is the website for Pioneer Park Freedom Camp -
http://www.ballarat.vic.gov.au/lae/freedom-camping.aspx
Given all the conditions stipulated in that page, I would find it quite unwelcoming to stay there.
A snip of Pioneer Park -
Perhaps some background information. This was what was in the Caravanning News when this "free" camp was announced.
The "press release" seems to fairly clearly lay out the conditions of the trial -
Add to these conditions those within the website for the freedom camp and it certainly was a very restrictive arrangement.
I fully understand how media reports are often misleading or one-sided, but it would appear quite a few of the "conditions of approval" have been violated. It is interesting that some of the non-compliances are being explained away due to "unforeseen" circumstances.
It has always been, and quite probably will always be, difficult for all concerned to justify the introduction and continuance of 'freedom' camps - for no charge - within the city boundaries of the larger towns.
The provision of the facility was only ever going to be a 12 month trial - and there was dissatisfaction with the Council decision even before the proposal was initially mooted and that dissatisfaction has continued through to this time by those within the Ballarat community.
Maybe the "success" of the Freedom Camp, which seems to have attracted large numbers of campers right down to people in swags, has been contributed to by the likes of Wikicamps etc - very widespread, perhaps misleading, advertising of its existence.
I can only suggest that it is fast approaching the time when "travellers" must realise that staying at such facilities, provided by a community within the boundaries of a city, is for an one or two nights only. If the need is to "spend some time in the area" then stay in a facility that is designed to handle the numbers for extended times. The hackneyed phrase 'there's no such thing as a free lunch' applies - SOMEONE has to pay for what is obtained 'free'.
I know my opinion does not meet with the majority of travellers (let alone the majority of members on this forum) but some common sense needs to be applied to where one can camp for more than a night - particularly within a city.
Cheers - and happy travelling - John
Surely they should listen to their ratepayers, not nomads (even if we usually contribute to retailers and tourist companies)
I assume this wasn't inspired by the CMCA - as they try to make it for self-contained RVs only (motor homes with grey water tanks)
It was actually inspired by two local residents and since when has the definition of self contained RVs been motorhomes with grey water tanks. Gross misrepresentation there, I guess some people can't resist taking a shot at the CMCA, probably the one club in Australia that has done more for the RV public than any other.
Gday...
My observation, if we are to assume the information in the news article is fairly accurate, is that the problem is NOT the council, community residents, caravan parks or the CMCA.
The problem is that "travellers" continue to do what so many seem to do all over this country - simply abuse the facilities provided.
Well-meaning communities will support providing and maintaining such facilities for the wide-ranging reasons so often put forward - if the 'rules' for usage at the site are adhered to.
If that happened then there would be no case for any lobby group to close facilities.
Until 'travellers' wake up and stop being so "ME" about how and where they stop, these situations will continue to raise their head.
People such as the members on this forum (and similar caravanner forums) are not the culprits - the far greater majority of 'travellers' don't even know these forums exist - especially genus backpacker.
Those 'travellers' are not even aware of the problem because they ARE the problem.
That is what makes it such an issue for people like members here - and on other caravanning forums - who care.
Cheers - and enjoy a campfire in the bush instead - John
Pioneer Park
A DECISION on a controversial 12-month Pioneer Park freedom camping trial has been delayed by the City of Ballarat.
Councillor Peter Innes put forward an alternative motion at the council meeting on Wednesday evening.
He requested a deferral until after a mediation meeting was held between the Campervan and Motorhome Club of Australia, Ballarat caravan park owners and the Victorian Caravan Parks Association.
Cr Innes said the views of all parties needed to be heard by councillors before a final decision was made.
The trial still has two months to run but claims about the Wendouree sites alleged misuse, including people overstaying the two permitted nights and not meeting the self-containment water and toilet measures, pushed it prematurely back into the council chamber.
The issues raised were by caravan park operators who said site nights were down 120 in December 2014 compared with the previous year, with a further drop of 212 nights in January. In February, one of the parks was down 58 site nights.
Operators also provided photographic evidence of small campervans, caravans, roof-top campers, tents, mini buses, four-wheel-drives, cars and people with swags using the park.
But CMCA member Grant Tillett disputed all the claims and maintained the site was monitored five times a day.
I totally dismiss that harm of any kind is being caused to the park, Mr Tillett said.
The Courier visited Pioneer Park site on Thursday.
There was one recreational vehicle and another smaller van parked at opposite ends of the camping grounds.
Queensland couple Tony and Sue, who did not want their last name printed, said they had slept in their campervan at the site for two nights.
Tony estimated in that time, he spent between $300 and $400 in the city on groceries, petrol and shopping.
Tony said if the freedom camping ground wasnt in Ballarat he and his wife would have passed through. If we cant stop somewhere, then we just keep going, Tony said.
Another man, who did not want to be identified, was also staying at the site in his van and said he was on the pension and could not afford caravan park fees.
He said he had found the stay at Pioneer Park frustrating because there was no water or generator connection to the site.
melissa.cunningham@fairfaxmedia.com.au
Quote from last sentence
"He said he had found the stay at Pioneer Park frustrating because there was no water or generator connection to the site."
What does this guy want from a free camp area. He should have had enough water on board. I will leave the gennie bit alone!!!After all it is not the HILTON and it is FREE.
Jay&Dee
Gday...
QUOTE: The Courier visited Pioneer Park site on Thursday.
There was one recreational vehicle and another smaller van parked at opposite ends of the camping grounds. END QUOTE
I wonder what The Courier was implying ... it is winter in Ballarat ! ! ..... it would be better weather in the Antarctica
The caravan park "statistics" from December > February are more pertinent, when most tourists would be around.
Cheers - John
Ballarat weather is not as bad as people say. The outer Eastern suburbs of Melbourne have colder temps, more rain and more rainy days. We have had ~ zero degrees in the morning for the last few days but no wind, no cloud and 10-14 degrees. Just brilliant. Ideal for packing the van to travel up the coast in Qld.
There are far mor retail stores and service stations than that will have received a windfall from this experiment and local councillors need to think about overall outcomes not just listen to two caravan park owners who are probably charging over the top fees anyway.