Went to the Brisbane caravan show this week the caravans are getting heavy would need big tug to tow them , If you want a new caravan you would need a new tug for sure .
rockylizard said
08:21 PM Jun 5, 2015
Gday...
Alan, that is an excellent, well-founded and informative article.
Let's hope it is read all the way through and comprehended and that folk give due consideration to whatever is their tow vehicle/s.
Unfortunately, many will not get to the end of the article due to its 'jargon' and 'technical' nature. Hopefully is not considered a 'difficult' read but is read more than once to absorb.
Even those who "know it" should read it to reinforce what they 'already know'.
The big "if" is whether anyone with a vehicle that is at its limit (or beyond) will reconsider their situation.
Additionally, vehicle manufacturers AND THEIR MARKETERS should be held to account for the 'looseness' of their 'specification' and their vehicle's 'capabilities' or lack thereof .
Cheers - and thanks again - John
Plendo said
08:47 PM Jun 5, 2015
I agree with John,
an excellent and well thought out article.
I would just like to add that people should understand what the tare weight of a vehicle includes, before they assume they have the stated payload to play with. One particular vehicle with very large fuel tanks specify a tare with nearly empty tanks and no driver, most of the payload is gone with fuel and driver, before you add the ball weight, passenger, and load in the back.
Woody n Sue said
11:01 PM Jun 5, 2015
A great article Alan one other thing that should not be over looked is the tyres of the van and tow vehicle must also be rated to carry the loaded weight, and after reading that I'm glad I got a fifth wheeler so much easier to calculate weights
Tones said
03:38 AM Jun 6, 2015
In relation to the article in the link, if the extract below is correct, particularly in relation to the example that is given, then all the towing guides and State legislation will have to be re-written!
The braked tow rating is the trailers ATM, or Aggregate Trailer Mass. Thats how much the trailer weighs. The Gross Trailer Mass (GTM) is the ATM with the towball mass (downforce) subtracted. For example, a trailer that weights 2000kg has a 2000kg ATM, and if theres 200kg on the towball the ATM is 1800kg.
Tones
rockylizard said
07:37 AM Jun 6, 2015
Gday...
well picked Tones
Obviously what it should be is that if the ATM on the plate of the van is stated as 2,000Kg then the GTM would be 2,000Kg PLUS the ball weight.
The TARE is an actual weight.
The ATM is a determined mass that is the TARE plus the allowed payload of the van - eg 1600Kg TARE (weighed) plus allowed payload (a 'standard' number) of 400Kg = ATM of 2,000Kg ... the ATM is the MAXIMUM weight the caravan can be when CONNECTED to the tow vehicle - ie WITH the towball weight on the tow vehicle - and the wheels of the caravan on the weighbridge.
The GTM is the gross allowed mass of the caravan when NOT connected to the van - ie the van on a weighbridge supported by its own wheels and the jockey wheel - that is NOT connected to the tow vehicle.
It is the ATM that must be within the allowed weight stipulated by the manufacturer of the tow vehicle.
The error in the article should read as amended here -
I am attempting to contact the author of the article to advise of the 'error'.
Cheers - John
-- Edited by rockylizard on Saturday 6th of June 2015 08:17:22 AM
That link is full of spelling errors and wrong information. If you understand it you will pick them up but if you don't you will be more confused.
Braked tow rating how heavy a trailer the vehicle can tow, provided it has trailer brakes as opposed to no brakes in which case it relies only on the towcar to stop the combination. Trailers over 2000kg need brakes that can be independently applied from the tow vehicle.
The braked tow rating is the trailers ATM, or Aggregate Trailer Mass. Thats how much the trailer weighs. The Gross Trailer Mass (GTM) is the ATM with the towball mass (downforce) subtracted. For example, a trailer that weights (weighs) 2000kg has a 2000kg ATM, and if theres 200kg on the towball the ATM (should be GTM) is 1800kg.
For example, a trailer that has a 2000kg ATM, can only be loaded up to this weight (it can be loaded under this) and if theres 200kg on the towball the GTM should be at least 1800kg and that is only if the towbar is rated for 200kg or more.
Thar is one example, there are several others
-- Edited by Chris61 on Saturday 6th of June 2015 08:52:58 AM
-- Edited by Chris61 on Saturday 6th of June 2015 09:45:26 PM
Allany said
09:42 AM Jun 6, 2015
ATM " The ATM is the maximum load mass recommended by the manufacturer. This includes both the mass imposed onto the drawing vehicle when the vehicle hauling the trailer is resting on a horizontal surface and transmitted to the ground by the tyres of the trailer" as defined by Queensland Transport
Allan
PeterD said
10:43 AM Jun 6, 2015
rockylizard wrote:
I think you may have things reversed Rocky. The ATM is the heavier weight. It's the Aggregate of the GTM and the ball weight. It's the last ATM that shuld have been GTM.
rockylizard said
04:11 PM Jun 6, 2015
Gday...
Oh well - guess the article is not that good after all - better disregard it I reckon.
Sorry for contributing to the furtherance of flawed information.
Cheers - John
signwilson said
09:21 PM Jun 6, 2015
caravan dealers and car dealers have a lot to answer for because of the wrong information given to people by inexperienced salesmen trying to make a sale
this is worth a read for anyone towing big vans
you might get a shock
https://practicalmotoring.com.au/car-advice/why-a-3500kg-tow-rating-may-not-really-be-a-3500kg-tow-rating/#.VXAadji1xms.facebook
allan
Gday...
Alan, that is an excellent, well-founded and informative article.
Let's hope it is read all the way through and comprehended and that folk give due consideration to whatever is their tow vehicle/s.
Unfortunately, many will not get to the end of the article due to its 'jargon' and 'technical' nature. Hopefully is not considered a 'difficult' read but is read more than once to absorb.
Even those who "know it" should read it to reinforce what they 'already know'.
The big "if" is whether anyone with a vehicle that is at its limit (or beyond) will reconsider their situation.
Additionally, vehicle manufacturers AND THEIR MARKETERS should be held to account for the 'looseness' of their 'specification' and their vehicle's 'capabilities' or lack thereof
.
Cheers - and thanks again - John
I agree with John,
an excellent and well thought out article.
I would just like to add that people should understand what the tare weight of a vehicle includes, before they assume they have the stated payload to play with. One particular vehicle with very large fuel tanks specify a tare with nearly empty tanks and no driver, most of the payload is gone with fuel and driver, before you add the ball weight, passenger, and load in the back.
In relation to the article in the link, if the extract below is correct, particularly in relation to the example that is given, then all the towing guides and State legislation will have to be re-written!
The braked tow rating is the trailers ATM, or Aggregate Trailer Mass. Thats how much the trailer weighs. The Gross Trailer Mass (GTM) is the ATM with the towball mass (downforce) subtracted. For example, a trailer that weights 2000kg has a 2000kg ATM, and if theres 200kg on the towball the ATM is 1800kg.
Tones
Gday...
Obviously what it should be is that if the ATM on the plate of the van is stated as 2,000Kg then the GTM would be 2,000Kg PLUS the ball weight.
The TARE is an actual weight.
The ATM is a determined mass that is the TARE plus the allowed payload of the van - eg 1600Kg TARE (weighed) plus allowed payload (a 'standard' number) of 400Kg = ATM of 2,000Kg ... the ATM is the MAXIMUM weight the caravan can be when CONNECTED to the tow vehicle - ie WITH the towball weight on the tow vehicle - and the wheels of the caravan on the weighbridge.
The GTM is the gross allowed mass of the caravan when NOT connected to the van - ie the van on a weighbridge supported by its own wheels and the jockey wheel - that is NOT connected to the tow vehicle.
It is the ATM that must be within the allowed weight stipulated by the manufacturer of the tow vehicle.
The error in the article should read as amended here -
I am attempting to contact the author of the article to advise of the 'error'.
Cheers - John
-- Edited by rockylizard on Saturday 6th of June 2015 08:17:22 AM
That link is full of spelling errors and wrong information. If you understand it you will pick them up but if you don't you will be more confused.
-- Edited by Chris61 on Saturday 6th of June 2015 08:52:58 AM
-- Edited by Chris61 on Saturday 6th of June 2015 09:45:26 PM
Allan
I think you may have things reversed Rocky. The ATM is the heavier weight. It's the Aggregate of the GTM and the ball weight. It's the last ATM that shuld have been GTM.
Gday...
Oh well - guess the article is not that good after all - better disregard it I reckon.
Sorry for contributing to the furtherance of flawed information.
Cheers - John