I realise asking a question like that is like asking "how long is a bit of string".
However to explain the reason for that question, the house has been sold, and early next month when hopefully a bit of money hits the bank account we intent to purchase a secondhand van and if everything goes according to plan do the big lap plus whatever detours look worthwhile.
While for a number of years we have done the trip North each Victorian winter to visit my sons in Cairns, we have never had a van any bigger than a 17 foot pop top.
Now however because the circumstances are vastly different and we basically will be living in the van for twelve months or longer, a full height van with a separate toilet and shower and a decent size fridge seems to be the better choice to fulfil the likely requirements.
Personally because I'm the one that has to tow the thing and back it into whatever tight little space we may be allocated at a caravan park from time to time I really did not want to go past a 19 or 20 foot van while Lyn would like a bit of extra seating and moving around space, and therefore favours something around the 24/25 foot mark.
I really really need those with the larger vans to give me a bit of feedback as to how they find the experience of towing a 24 foot van around the country side, and just how they cope with getting it into some of the van parks that I found a tight fit just towing a 17 foot van.
Cheers Tom
blaze said
06:20 AM Jun 1, 2015
24 foot van here and never had a problem, the extra room is nice on wet days. Also remember that a 24 foot van will be heavier than a 19 foot van. Really I think that once up and moving there is very little difference between them. Our smallest van was about 12 foot and current one is 24 and had a few in between.
cheers
blaze
Desert Dweller said
06:59 AM Jun 1, 2015
17 foot here. We spend most of our time outdoors when camping. Far easier to manoeuvre into rough bush camping spots. Who needs to tow an extra 4 feet of van around just for a dunny. We use a Thetford in a dunny tent, works great. Better fuel consumption too. Not as much PRESTIGE though. LOL.
greyhoundtom said
07:22 AM Jun 1, 2015
I have had it real easy in regard to towing and being able to fit into small spaces for the past 12 months as I built this last year on a 6 X 4 trailer and have taken that to a trip to Cairns and around the place.
Suprising amount of space and it even has a porta pottie fitted. However the boss is looking for enough space in the next one so that she has room to do her quilting projects, and after having been married to me for 51 years I had better look after her comfort a bit more because in turn that means I will be a lot more comfortable. Lol
-- Edited by greyhoundtom on Monday 1st of June 2015 07:29:22 AM
Gundog said
07:41 AM Jun 1, 2015
I suppose one question that needs to be asked what will you be towing it with ?
I'm in a similar position to yourself, I have recently retired and have been searching for the ultimate van suitable for permanent living wherever the wind blows us.
My search is limited to nothing less then 23' as your partner points out she would like some moving around space, which I am in 100% agreement, most vans I have looked at only have either an L shaped or café style seating with a darn table in the way, the other annoyance is the east-west beds when pulled out and the bolster fitted, it almost impossible to get around it(if you want to go to the dunny at night, you may have climb over your partner to go) likewise north-south beds suffer from lack of wardrobe space, 1 little 8" wide wardrobe is not enough for my partner, the Jayco Sterling range offer a reasonable solution, with their slide out range a single slide out is ok as long as its the bedroom, you will have plenty of room to move around the end of the bed, a slide out on the lounge is another luxury and nice to have.
I have been looking at a lot of vans and its almost because the space I want we will ultimately end up with a double slide out Jayco.
Happy hunting for you portable home.
greyhoundtom said
07:56 AM Jun 1, 2015
You are right it's tough finding something with enough storage space for all the gear you need for living in a van for an extended period of time, as well as the required conveniences and room to move.
While my chosen tug is a Isuzu MU-X 4X4-LS that is rated to tow 3 ton I don't really want to test it out by going too big. However the Jayco Sterling with the slide outs certainly seem an attractive proposition to gain the extra space but towing something that big still has me somewhat apprehensive about making a commitment to buy that type of van.
I guess that is part of the reason for seeking feedback about both the perils and advantages of towing a large van.
Cheers Tom
jbrinks said
09:24 AM Jun 1, 2015
One thing I found interesting was we bought a 20' van supposedly but if you measure from the tow ball to the back of the spare tyre it is 27' which was a bit of a shock to us in size. I think the 20' in our case was the size of the chassis , van is probably around 22' . Could easily live in this size.
greyhoundtom said
09:37 AM Jun 1, 2015
jbrinks wrote:
One thing I found interesting was we bought a 20' van supposedly but if you measure from the tow ball to the back of the spare tyre it is 27' which was a bit of a shock to us in size. I think the 20' in our case was the size of the chassis , van is probably around 22' . Could easily live in this size.
The overall size of the van is my biggest concern in regard to backing it into a tight spot, and what seems to affects that is the amount of overhang at the back of the van past the wheels, particularly when you are trying to get it between gate posts.
Listed van sizes can be a bit tricky because as far as I know the listed size is a measurement of the useable space inside the van, but when they are a private sale people can get it wrong. It's easy with the Jayco vans as the model number appears to incorporate the internal length.
Cheers Tom
Spydermann said
09:47 AM Jun 1, 2015
I'm trying to choose a van at the moment. Things I am considering:
1. Van Weight & Tow Ball weight. My tug can tow 2000kg but only has a 80kg ball weight. Would prefer 120kg ball weight but happy to tow no more than 2000kg. Odd thing is my tug can tow 2000kg but 85% of tug + driver is only 1470kg and 85% of tug GVM is 1830kg 2. Ability to camp without services (free camping): Solar, water, toilet, shower. Water is anywhere from 60L to 2x80L. This adds weight. All showers and toilets are useable but some are a tad small unless you are normal to skinny. 3. Awning. 4. Bed arrangements. If you are 6' & 100kgs and used to sleeping in a queen or king bed with a partner, then try the bed out first. Also, I know many who like two big singles but not many have these. If you wife is cold blooded, then she may need more donnas that normal when in a van. Shared body heat is not always an option if you keep getting nudged to stop snoring. 5. If weight is an issue, look at some of the lightweight vans such as Jurgens or the Swift Explorer range (modified for Australia) and some of the other European vans. 6. Bike rack?
Number of axles is also something to consider. There are pros & cons here too.
-- Edited by Spydermann on Monday 1st of June 2015 09:48:47 AM
Treecrest14 said
09:54 AM Jun 1, 2015
Any chance of some photos or layout of your popup?
Dougwe said
10:06 AM Jun 1, 2015
It really is your choice Tom but for what is it worth, in November 2014 I went from being solo part time in a Avan Camper to still solo full time in a 20' full size van with full ensuite.
I can't see how how 2 people would not be comfy in it really. I have heaps of room, cupboard space etc. I chose to go with a separate toilet and shower and am very pleased with that decision. I had a china bowl fitted for the toilet not plastic and a slightly larger shower fitted, both great choices. I have single beds up front and very happy but make sure you get a good quality mattress first off. I went with the innersprings that came with the van but in the process of getting a very good quality one for me, the spare stays as is. I also went with tandem axle and very happy that I did.
I live in the van full time and love it.
iana said
10:10 AM Jun 1, 2015
If there are just the two of you intending to travel there are many advantages in towing a 5th wheeler.
1/ Where a caravan is unstable when towed, a 5 wheeler is self stabilising. I.e. self corrects if a sway happens.
2/ Usable area in the van verses towing length is much better. No draw bar, part of the structure is over the tug.
3/ Tight turning circles and I believe easy to back.
4/ Easy to hitch and un-hitch. No sway bars or load distribution bars required.
5/ The towing and load forces on the vehicle are where they should be, over the back axle of the tug.
6/ Utes are now very comfortable, powerful and there is a good second hand market at the moment.
7/ Australian made 5 wheelers are made from 18 ft models up to what ever.
8/ Design layouts are not so restricted by balance as are caravans.
I have attached a brochure of the new Jayco model which is 22ft long but would have a towing length of about 18ft or less. It is new in the $70,000 mark, which is comparable with a large caravan. The hitch costs about $4000 to fit.
Considering the safety benefits alone, these vehicles are worth a look.
PS: just had a look at them and Facebook has certainly mixed them up out of the order that they were posted.
-- Edited by greyhoundtom on Monday 1st of June 2015 10:20:01 AM
deverall11 said
10:29 AM Jun 1, 2015
Our new van has the axles set back further then our previous van. Tows a lot better and although longer, easier to reverse because of where the axles are.
Larry
Spydermann said
10:49 AM Jun 1, 2015
And check insurance. Just found out that RACV do not insure fully imported vans.
Spydermann said
11:18 AM Jun 1, 2015
Just back from a trip straight up the main highway from Melbourne to Forster (NSW). Saw more 5th wheelers on that trip that I've seen in my lifetime (excluding circuses and in Nth Queensland).
Tow vehicles include everything from a Ranger / BT50 and that type of ute, older F250s (what else in days of old?) to an Iveco Daily and an old Holden 1 tonner.
Do you need an articulated licence to tow one?
done dreaming said
01:12 PM Jun 1, 2015
We live fulltime in our van which is 23'6 internal. we have never had any trouble getting into freecamps anywhere around Aus and only 2 caravan parks. If you can reverse a 15', you can reverse a 23'.We just like the extra space and storage.
Desert Dweller said
02:27 PM Jun 1, 2015
Spydermann wrote:
And check insurance. Just found out that RACV do not insure fully imported vans.
Are you sure of that fact? They've been running advertisements for Adria caravans in their monthly magazine for the past 2 years or more. LOL.
Spydermann said
04:42 PM Jun 1, 2015
Desert Dweller wrote:
Spydermann wrote:
And check insurance. Just found out that RACV do not insure fully imported vans.
Are you sure of that fact? They've been running advertisements for Adria caravans in their monthly magazine for the past 2 years or more. LOL.
Yep. Rang RACV last week to get a quote on a fully imported van. Rang back this morning to check some details of the quote only to be told that the quote was invalid because the van is fully imported and it can take up to 9 months to source parts to fix an imported van. RACV is unwilling to live with this and hence they do not sure imported vans. Give that this is being done via an underwriter, other companies who use the same underwriter may not insure fully imported vans either.
Phil C said
05:41 PM Jun 1, 2015
Hi folks, 2 years ago my wife and I decided to take on the grey nomad lifestyle. We sold our home and all the accumulated clap trap and purchased a brand new 20 foot caravan.
We live in the van full time, it is warm in winter, cool in summer and the fittings are heaps comfortable. We decided on an onboard loo and shower also a washing machine.
For the life of me I can not find any reason why all of that was a bad decision, we have met some fabulous people, seen some amazing sights and enjoyed our travels. I believe we are not alone in saying how sweet this is, I have read criticism by journalists etc and no longer care what others see us as. We live well on my military pension and Centrelink payment, so we want for very little. No money in the bank but fuel in the tank and we cart our bed around everywhere we go, who could ask for more?
Enjoy whatever caravan you decide on, enjoy this wonderful freedom from rent, or mortgage, electricity bills, rates, and bad neighbours.
Cheers and safe travels
Spydermann said
11:41 AM Jun 2, 2015
Met a chap a few months ago. He sold up almost everything. He bought a shipping container, put all what he wanted to keep in that and had it stored. Then had a open house / garage sale that included his house and all them remaining contents. Got rid of the lot and is now touring the big paddock with his dog, towing a camper trailer behind a motor-bike & sidecar.
Wizardofoz said
08:29 AM Jun 3, 2015
Hi Tom, I have a 23'6" caravan that has a tare weight of 2965 kg and it is my 1st and only caravan. I had absolutely no towing experience with a caravan other than hiring a 21' caravan for a couple of months prior to buying to see if my wife would handle this style of travelling.
personally, I have never had a problem with towing the large van, surprisingly, it actually backs up a lot better than a small box trailer or a boat that I once owned...to my mind, once accustomed to the weight and size, the larger van is quite easy to manouevre, it just requires common sense and the right tow vehicle.
By the way, as another former greyhound person, great to see you out and about and caravanning...all the best and hopefully we may meet up along the way sometime.
done dreaming said
11:17 AM Jun 3, 2015
Agree with you phil,having a house and money in the bank is over rated compared to this fabulous lifestyle.
cheers
blaze
I have had it real easy in regard to towing and being able to fit into small spaces for the past 12 months as I built this last year on a 6 X 4 trailer and have taken that to a trip to Cairns and around the place.
Suprising amount of space and it even has a porta pottie fitted. However the boss is looking for enough space in the next one so that she has room to do her quilting projects, and after having been married to me for 51 years I had better look after her comfort a bit more because in turn that means I will be a lot more comfortable. Lol
-- Edited by greyhoundtom on Monday 1st of June 2015 07:29:22 AM
I'm in a similar position to yourself, I have recently retired and have been searching for the ultimate van suitable for permanent living wherever the wind blows us.
My search is limited to nothing less then 23' as your partner points out she would like some moving around space, which I am in 100% agreement, most vans I have looked at only have either an L shaped or café style seating with a darn table in the way, the other annoyance is the east-west beds when pulled out and the bolster fitted, it almost impossible to get around it(if you want to go to the dunny at night, you may have climb over your partner to go) likewise north-south beds suffer from lack of wardrobe space, 1 little 8" wide wardrobe is not enough for my partner, the Jayco Sterling range offer a reasonable solution, with their slide out range a single slide out is ok as long as its the bedroom, you will have plenty of room to move around the end of the bed, a slide out on the lounge is another luxury and nice to have.
I have been looking at a lot of vans and its almost because the space I want we will ultimately end up with a double slide out Jayco.
Happy hunting for you portable home.
While my chosen tug is a Isuzu MU-X 4X4-LS that is rated to tow 3 ton I don't really want to test it out by going too big. However the Jayco Sterling with the slide outs certainly seem an attractive proposition to gain the extra space but towing something that big still has me somewhat apprehensive about making a commitment to buy that type of van.
I guess that is part of the reason for seeking feedback about both the perils and advantages of towing a large van.
Cheers Tom
One thing I found interesting was we bought a 20' van supposedly but if you measure from the tow ball to the back of the spare tyre it is 27' which was a bit of a shock to us in size. I think the 20' in our case was the size of the chassis , van is probably around 22' . Could easily live in this size.
The overall size of the van is my biggest concern in regard to backing it into a tight spot, and what seems to affects that is the amount of overhang at the back of the van past the wheels, particularly when you are trying to get it between gate posts.
Listed van sizes can be a bit tricky because as far as I know the listed size is a measurement of the useable space inside the van, but when they are a private sale people can get it wrong. It's easy with the Jayco vans as the model number appears to incorporate the internal length.
Cheers Tom
I'm trying to choose a van at the moment. Things I am considering:
1. Van Weight & Tow Ball weight. My tug can tow 2000kg but only has a 80kg ball weight. Would prefer 120kg ball weight but happy to tow no more than 2000kg. Odd thing is my tug can tow 2000kg but 85% of tug + driver is only 1470kg and 85% of tug GVM is 1830kg
2. Ability to camp without services (free camping): Solar, water, toilet, shower. Water is anywhere from 60L to 2x80L. This adds weight. All showers and toilets are useable but some are a tad small unless you are normal to skinny.
3. Awning.
4. Bed arrangements. If you are 6' & 100kgs and used to sleeping in a queen or king bed with a partner, then try the bed out first. Also, I know many who like two big singles but not many have these. If you wife is cold blooded, then she may need more donnas that normal when in a van. Shared body heat is not always an option if you keep getting nudged to stop snoring.
5. If weight is an issue, look at some of the lightweight vans such as Jurgens or the Swift Explorer range (modified for Australia) and some of the other European vans.
6. Bike rack?
Number of axles is also something to consider. There are pros & cons here too.
-- Edited by Spydermann on Monday 1st of June 2015 09:48:47 AM
Any chance of some photos or layout of your popup?
I can't see how how 2 people would not be comfy in it really. I have heaps of room, cupboard space etc. I chose to go with a separate toilet and shower and am very pleased with that decision. I had a china bowl fitted for the toilet not plastic and a slightly larger shower fitted, both great choices. I have single beds up front and very happy but make sure you get a good quality mattress first off. I went with the innersprings that came with the van but in the process of getting a very good quality one for me, the spare stays as is. I also went with tandem axle and very happy that I did.
I live in the van full time and love it.
If there are just the two of you intending to travel there are many advantages in towing a 5th wheeler.
1/ Where a caravan is unstable when towed, a 5 wheeler is self stabilising. I.e. self corrects if a sway happens.
2/ Usable area in the van verses towing length is much better. No draw bar, part of the structure is over the tug.
3/ Tight turning circles and I believe easy to back.
4/ Easy to hitch and un-hitch. No sway bars or load distribution bars required.
5/ The towing and load forces on the vehicle are where they should be, over the back axle of the tug.
6/ Utes are now very comfortable, powerful and there is a good second hand market at the moment.
7/ Australian made 5 wheelers are made from 18 ft models up to what ever.
8/ Design layouts are not so restricted by balance as are caravans.
I have attached a brochure of the new Jayco model which is 22ft long but would have a towing length of about 18ft or less. It is new in the $70,000 mark, which is comparable with a large caravan. The hitch costs about $4000 to fit.
Considering the safety benefits alone, these vehicles are worth a look.
Cheers,
Tom
There are some photos of my little van on my Facebook page, and with a bit of luck you should be able to see them by following this link:
https://www.facebook.com/tom.meulman.94/media_set?set=a.358646684283617.1073741825.100004148649660&type=3
Cheers Tom
PS: just had a look at them and Facebook has certainly mixed them up out of the order that they were posted.
-- Edited by greyhoundtom on Monday 1st of June 2015 10:20:01 AM
Larry
Tow vehicles include everything from a Ranger / BT50 and that type of ute, older F250s (what else in days of old?) to an Iveco Daily and an old Holden 1 tonner.
Do you need an articulated licence to tow one?
Are you sure of that fact? They've been running advertisements for Adria caravans in their monthly magazine for the past 2 years or more. LOL.
Yep. Rang RACV last week to get a quote on a fully imported van. Rang back this morning to check some details of the quote only to be told that the quote was invalid because the van is fully imported and it can take up to 9 months to source parts to fix an imported van. RACV is unwilling to live with this and hence they do not sure imported vans. Give that this is being done via an underwriter, other companies who use the same underwriter may not insure fully imported vans either.
We live in the van full time, it is warm in winter, cool in summer and the fittings are heaps comfortable. We decided on an onboard loo and shower also a washing machine.
For the life of me I can not find any reason why all of that was a bad decision, we have met some fabulous people, seen some amazing sights and enjoyed our travels. I believe we are not alone in saying how sweet this is, I have read criticism by journalists etc and no longer care what others see us as. We live well on my military pension and Centrelink payment, so we want for very little. No money in the bank but fuel in the tank and we cart our bed around everywhere we go, who could ask for more?
Enjoy whatever caravan you decide on, enjoy this wonderful freedom from rent, or mortgage, electricity bills, rates, and bad neighbours.
Cheers and safe travels
Hi Tom, I have a 23'6" caravan that has a tare weight of 2965 kg and it is my 1st and only caravan. I had absolutely no towing experience with a caravan other than hiring a 21' caravan for a couple of months prior to buying to see if my wife would handle this style of travelling.
personally, I have never had a problem with towing the large van, surprisingly, it actually backs up a lot better than a small box trailer or a boat that I once owned...to my mind, once accustomed to the weight and size, the larger van is quite easy to manouevre, it just requires common sense and the right tow vehicle.
By the way, as another former greyhound person, great to see you out and about and caravanning...all the best and hopefully we may meet up along the way sometime.
Agree with you phil,having a house and money in the bank is over rated compared to this fabulous lifestyle.