Some vans offer AL-KO ESC & some offer AL-KO ATC. On reading about both on AL-KO sites, I'm thinking they are the same thing. ATC is what the system is called in Europe (Swift vans) and ESC (Jurgens) is what it's called in Australia. Does anyone know what the actual difference is - if any?
-- Edited by Spydermann on Sunday 31st of May 2015 06:43:55 PM
Hey Jim said
07:47 PM May 31, 2015
Hi Spidermann,
My answer is No.
However we have ordered a new (our First van) a Jayco journey outback 17.55. our tow truck has staybillty /anti sway control. So we got the AL-KO ESC included in the deal. It works by applying the brakes to either one or both sides on the van If it starts to sway as I under stand.
I have been towing tandum trailers (Boats) all my life. if loaded correctly I have never incounted trailer sway. I have seen many on the road and want to close my eyes in disbeleaf.
Regards jim
Plendo said
10:03 PM May 31, 2015
A look at the Al_ko ATC brochure indicates it is the same as what is sold here at ESC.
We have ESC on our van, I do not believe it has ever activated, but it sure is nice to know it there.
BTW, it applies the brakes on the van, affecting all braked wheels equally.
Bruce and Bev said
04:51 PM Jun 2, 2015
we have ALKO ESC on our van - fitted by the Dealer. You don't even know its working, as it applies the brakes often for only a milli-second at a time as soon as sway is detected (and before you even realize there is sway). So the ESC can be working 10s-100s of times each hour and you don't know. You cant feel any braking sensation at all.
We had our brakes and ESC system checked by the van manufacturer recently after 8 months new and the brake components were all prefect with no excessive wear caused by the ESC at all.
As a side issue, we also had the vehicle serviced by them and they charged $199. The Dealer wanted almost $600 and the cheapest 'van repairer was about $300.
They picked up a few warranty issues which they fixed while doing the service.
rockylizard said
07:21 PM Jun 2, 2015
Bruce and Bev wrote:
we have ALKO ESC on our van - fitted by the Dealer. You don't even know its working, as it applies the brakes often for only a milli-second at a time as soon as sway is detected (and before you even realize there is sway). So the ESC can be working 10s-100s of times each hour and you don't know. You cant feel any braking sensation at all. ~~~ SNIP
Gday...
apologies firstly for this post - but I just had to throw this cat amongst the pigeons
If a caravan is well set-up, sensibly loaded and attached to a suitable tow vehicle, it should be stable - in "normal" conditions! Therefore, even if ALKO ESC is installed ALKO ESC should/would NOT be detected at all - under "NORMAL" conditions.
I would hope, more likely INSIST, that the van would NOT need sway control if set-up, sensibly loaded and attached to a suitable tow vehicle - under "normal" conditions.
Now, STOP ... put down those bricks ... let me go on ... HOWEVER, sway control devices SHOULD be, and obviously are, invaluable in "adverse" conditions - such as sudden side winds, unusual road conditions (eg a bend that tightens up unexpectedly), when being passed or overtaken by a truck (particularly B-Double/Roadtrain) or due to another vehicle, pedestrian, bicycle, animal unexpectedly causing a potentially dangerous situation which requires sudden evasive action.
Call me dumb (join the queue - and it is a long one) but surely if I had ALKO ESC connected to my van and I could "sense" it operating during "NORMAL" driving/towing, I would be completely checking out the van's basic stability - tyres, loading etc, etc ... and if that didn't correct swaying during "normal" driving/towing I would be selling the van very quickly.
Let me state again ... I accept fully that ALKO ESC (and any other anti-sway device) is an important advance in towing safety and, as it appears is happening, should be standard fitting on all new vans. Of course, retro-fitting to older vans is also a valuable asset if the older van is 'compatible' to such fitting.
However, let me again reiterate ... if the van has "sway tendency" without ALKO ESC (or others) then the van has a problem which should be identified AND rectified.
ALKO ESC ... and other anti-sway devices ... are NOT there to "fix" a poorly set-up caravan.
OK .... you can pick up those bricks now ... I have put on my armour and I'm now standing behind my soapbox.
Cheers - picky old John
aussie_paul said
07:38 PM Jun 2, 2015
I am with you Rocky. Fix the cause of the problem not mask it with a gadget that is really for an "exceptional" circumstance occurrence.
Aussie Paul.
PeterD said
08:10 PM Jun 2, 2015
They are not the same thing. They do the same basic job. ESC is electrical system for electric brakes. It is an Australian product. ATC is an electro/mechanical system for cable operated override brakes.
-- Edited by PeterD on Tuesday 2nd of June 2015 08:13:09 PM
Baz421 said
08:11 PM Jun 2, 2015
aussie_paul wrote:
I am with you Rocky. Fix the cause of the problem not mask it with a gadget that is really for an "exceptional" circumstance occurrence.
Aussie Paul.
Agree with Rocky also.
Baz421 said
08:16 PM Jun 2, 2015
Bruce and Bev wrote:
As a side issue, we also had the vehicle serviced by them and they charged $199. The Dealer wanted almost $600 and the cheapest 'van repairer was about $300.
They picked up a few warranty issues which they fixed while doing the service.
Just curious, what oils etc did they use for $199, did they not do something, or supply cheaper consumables not ideally suited to your vehilce and why do you think that this is value for money in the long term?
I'm not a big fan of dealers myself but a saving of 66% must be achieved somewhere?
Bruce and Bev said
10:31 AM Jun 5, 2015
two points from above:
1. No, you don't notice ESC working. If you have a modern vehicle (including 4x4's) - they are likely fitted with ESC which you will be advised to turn off on 4x4 vehicles if climbing up rocks and not all 4 wheels will be constantly on the ground.
ESC is constantly working on your motor vehicle - but as I said, for milli-seconds - so you don't even know or feel that they operated. The same happening with your RV. I agree you shouldn't use it to disguise a faulty rig or poor loading. But no more problems with large trucks passing or overtaking on narrow roads, wind shear and sub-standard roads
2. The $199 service was from the manufacturer. I saw the grease used - and it was the correct rating for heavy duty bearings (in my van). These guys are employees with a very large company and had nothing to gain by taking short cuts. If you actually stand and watch a full service on a dual axle 'van - it doesn't take that long. The biggest deal is the brakes and adjustment of the magnets, and pulling out the 4 bearings, cleaning and repacking. The rest is visual or touch, pretty much. They don't yet use diagnostic computers and dump oils from caravans as far as I am aware, which adds to the time to service
Baz421 said
11:17 AM Jun 5, 2015
Bruce and Bev wrote:
2. The $199 service was from the manufacturer. I saw the grease used - and it was the correct rating for heavy duty bearings (in my van). These guys are employees with a very large company and had nothing to gain by taking short cuts. If you actually stand and watch a full service on a dual axle 'van - it doesn't take that long. The biggest deal is the brakes and adjustment of the magnets, and pulling out the 4 bearings, cleaning and repacking. The rest is visual or touch, pretty much. They don't yet use diagnostic computers and dump oils from caravans as far as I am aware, which adds to the time to service
Ah when you said vehicle I though the tug was serviced.
Some vans offer AL-KO ESC & some offer AL-KO ATC. On reading about both on AL-KO sites, I'm thinking they are the same thing. ATC is what the system is called in Europe (Swift vans) and ESC (Jurgens) is what it's called in Australia. Does anyone know what the actual difference is - if any?
-- Edited by Spydermann on Sunday 31st of May 2015 06:43:55 PM
Hi Spidermann,
My answer is No.
However we have ordered a new (our First van) a Jayco journey outback 17.55. our tow truck has staybillty /anti sway control. So we got the AL-KO ESC included in the deal. It works by applying the brakes to either one or both sides on the van If it starts to sway as I under stand.
I have been towing tandum trailers (Boats) all my life. if loaded correctly I have never incounted trailer sway. I have seen many on the road and want to close my eyes in disbeleaf.
Regards jim
A look at the Al_ko ATC brochure indicates it is the same as what is sold here at ESC.
We have ESC on our van, I do not believe it has ever activated, but it sure is nice to know it there.
BTW, it applies the brakes on the van, affecting all braked wheels equally.
We had our brakes and ESC system checked by the van manufacturer recently after 8 months new and the brake components were all prefect with no excessive wear caused by the ESC at all.
As a side issue, we also had the vehicle serviced by them and they charged $199. The Dealer wanted almost $600 and the cheapest 'van repairer was about $300.
They picked up a few warranty issues which they fixed while doing the service.
Gday...
If a caravan is well set-up, sensibly loaded and attached to a suitable tow vehicle, it should be stable - in "normal" conditions! Therefore, even if ALKO ESC is installed ALKO ESC should/would NOT be detected at all - under "NORMAL" conditions.
I would hope, more likely INSIST, that the van would NOT need sway control if set-up, sensibly loaded and attached to a suitable tow vehicle - under "normal" conditions.
Now, STOP ... put down those bricks ... let me go on ... HOWEVER, sway control devices SHOULD be, and obviously are, invaluable in "adverse" conditions - such as sudden side winds, unusual road conditions (eg a bend that tightens up unexpectedly), when being passed or overtaken by a truck (particularly B-Double/Roadtrain) or due to another vehicle, pedestrian, bicycle, animal unexpectedly causing a potentially dangerous situation which requires sudden evasive action.
Call me dumb (join the queue - and it is a long one) but surely if I had ALKO ESC connected to my van and I could "sense" it operating during "NORMAL" driving/towing, I would be completely checking out the van's basic stability - tyres, loading etc, etc ... and if that didn't correct swaying during "normal" driving/towing I would be selling the van very quickly.
Let me state again ... I accept fully that ALKO ESC (and any other anti-sway device) is an important advance in towing safety and, as it appears is happening, should be standard fitting on all new vans. Of course, retro-fitting to older vans is also a valuable asset if the older van is 'compatible' to such fitting.
However, let me again reiterate ... if the van has "sway tendency" without ALKO ESC (or others) then the van has a problem which should be identified AND rectified.
ALKO ESC ... and other anti-sway devices ... are NOT there to "fix" a poorly set-up caravan.
OK .... you can pick up those bricks now ... I have put on my armour and I'm now standing behind my soapbox.
Cheers - picky old John
I am with you Rocky. Fix the cause of the problem not mask it with a gadget that is really for an "exceptional" circumstance occurrence.
Aussie Paul.
They are not the same thing. They do the same basic job. ESC is electrical system for electric brakes. It is an Australian product. ATC is an electro/mechanical system for cable operated override brakes.
-- Edited by PeterD on Tuesday 2nd of June 2015 08:13:09 PM
Agree with Rocky also.
Just curious, what oils etc did they use for $199, did they not do something, or supply cheaper consumables not ideally suited to your vehilce and why do you think that this is value for money in the long term?
I'm not a big fan of dealers myself but a saving of 66% must be achieved somewhere?
1. No, you don't notice ESC working. If you have a modern vehicle (including 4x4's) - they are likely fitted with ESC which you will be advised to turn off on 4x4 vehicles if climbing up rocks and not all 4 wheels will be constantly on the ground.
ESC is constantly working on your motor vehicle - but as I said, for milli-seconds - so you don't even know or feel that they operated. The same happening with your RV. I agree you shouldn't use it to disguise a faulty rig or poor loading. But no more problems with large trucks passing or overtaking on narrow roads, wind shear and sub-standard roads
2. The $199 service was from the manufacturer. I saw the grease used - and it was the correct rating for heavy duty bearings (in my van). These guys are employees with a very large company and had nothing to gain by taking short cuts. If you actually stand and watch a full service on a dual axle 'van - it doesn't take that long. The biggest deal is the brakes and adjustment of the magnets, and pulling out the 4 bearings, cleaning and repacking. The rest is visual or touch, pretty much. They don't yet use diagnostic computers and dump oils from caravans as far as I am aware, which adds to the time to service
Ah when you said vehicle I though the tug was serviced.