It’s time to tackle the unregulated and undertaxed menace of caravans
Santa said
01:46 PM May 24, 2015
This guy (Paul Syvret) is spot on, he makes some very valid points, in particular with refererence to the driving habits of many drivers towing caravans. I don't agree with everything he says, however, much of what he says is very true.
"Lets face it, for the average (non-vanning) motorist, caravans are the highway equivalent of cholesterol the stuff born of overindulgence that clogs up the arteries and, if allowed to fester, could well kill you in the long run.
Weve all endured them, trundling along at a stately pace usually about 20km/h below the posted limit often drifting in inelegant arcs across any inconvenient lane markings that may happen to present themselves.
Dont push it above 80km/h, Harold, it wont be good for our fuel economy.
Yes, luv. See if you can find Macca on the radio.
They are, generally speaking, totally oblivious to the world around them, unless of course its a sign advertising a free cuppa and bikkies at the next Driver Reviver stop, or any other facilities where they dont have to actually spend money."
Phil C said
02:31 PM May 24, 2015
Gday Santa,
Didnt get to read the article as I didnt want to subscribe to the service, however got the general gist from your comments.
I have a nephew who is a B double interstate truckie. some of his mates hate "wobblies" as they call caravans because of the reasons you have mooted. HOWEVER when I asked him how I could share the highways with truckies he made some very good points.
1. Always listen out on chan 40 for truckies, they will tell you what they want to do to pass you
2. Move over as soon as safe to let them by, after you tell them what you are doing (no surprises that way)
3. Be very aware that there are some bad tempered truckies that will try to make you have a bad day, ditto to wobbly drivers as well
4. Dont be a DH when it comes to driving, remember car in front rules.
Be safe and SHARE the roads.
Cheers and thanks for the post, its sure to create some active chat.
Santa said
02:40 PM May 24, 2015
Phil C wrote:
Gday Santa,
Didnt get to read the article as I didnt want to subscribe to the service, however got the general gist from your comments.
I have a nephew who is a B double interstate truckie. some of his mates hate "wobblies" as they call caravans because of the reasons you have mooted. HOWEVER when I asked him how I could share the highways with truckies he made some very good points.
1. Always listen out on chan 40 for truckies, they will tell you what they want to do to pass you 2. Move over as soon as safe to let them by, after you tell them what you are doing (no surprises that way) 3. Be very aware that there are some bad tempered truckies that will try to make you have a bad day, ditto to wobbly drivers as well 4. Dont be a DH when it comes to driving, remember car in front rules.
Be safe and SHARE the roads. Cheers and thanks for the post, its sure to create some active chat.
G'day Phil, your nephew makes some good common sense points.
aussietraveller said
07:12 PM May 24, 2015
I think they should do for the odd few caravaners that not only create issues for trickiest but other caravaners as well this at the same time that they deal with the odd few cowboy truckies who drive like they own the road, I am in favour of showing consideration to all other drivers.
Santa said
07:19 PM May 24, 2015
aussietraveller wrote:
I am in favour of showing consideration to all other drivers.
I 'm pretty sure most of us are in favour of this.
Problem is that many older drivers towing vans seem to be unaware there are other drivers on the road.
TheHeaths said
07:29 PM May 24, 2015
Many of them don't need to be towing to be totally unaware of others around them!
Towing simply adds another level of problems to avoiding them and an accident.
bandit11 said
08:08 PM May 24, 2015
Been stewing over Paul Syvret article for a week, I was glad to see Ron Chapmans reply in today's Sunday Mail, Iagree with it totally.
The comments in this post were done without much thought the old saying is to keep quite and be thought a fool, rather then to open your mouth and remove all dought.
Ozzie_Traveller said
09:13 PM May 24, 2015
G'day all
My response to this appalling article was:-
Who is the idiot writing this rubbish - OMG not an ounce of truth or common sense in any line of text
Has this fool ever towed a caravan or driven a motorhome? Has this fool ever had some richard-head in a small zippy car steal his safe-stopping-zone while pulling up at the lights? Has this fool ever tried driving safely thru a series of S-bends and felt the sway of the vehicle, and thus backed off from highway-permitted speed to a reduced speed / safe travelling speed?
There are many thousands of caravans & motorhomes on the highways every day and in percentage terms for vehicles, passenger cars have more prangs per 1000 vehicles than do caravans or motorhomes
Does this fool of a journalist propose to offer any ideas for those car drivers ... many of whom have a special "P" for Privileged or "P" Professional Driver [take your pick] and we all know the results of those drivers
Maybe this fool needs to accompany a Grey Nomad for a week or so to find out the real-world reality, but I bet he would a) never do so, and b) would never write an apology for the rubbish in today's paper
Phil
PeterD said
02:04 PM May 25, 2015
He is the Courier Mail's regular sh1t stirrer. He (or he and his mates) regurgitates this story every year or three.
-- Edited by PeterD on Monday 25th of May 2015 02:04:36 PM
Santa said
02:20 PM May 25, 2015
Not a sh*t stirrer at all, he has outlined some very real issues, sooner or later they will have to be addressed.
We all have to share the road with these doddery old buggers, so, as far as I'm concerned the sooner the problem is looked at the better.
JayDee said
07:55 PM May 25, 2015
Well now ...when you compare the no of accidents involving caravans v let's say just the family sedan, the results would be very very favourable for the caravan industry. This reporter does not realise just how huge the Caravan /motorhome industry is and increasing every year. The outback towns would be in more financial strife but for our support of the tourist industry in their region/s . Through our industry and associated industries we employs thousand and thousands of Australians. And guess what!!!!!, I believe that the industry does not receive any handout and support from the government like the auto industry. And another guess what!!!! These Australian Caravan manufacturing companies are not about to close up shop and go off shore like the car industry.
So how about more support for our lifestyle and talk of the positives rather than all the gloom and doom, that this reporter writes.
So ok, there is the odd accident, but to the media bad news of the accident, becomes good news to them.
Here is to more retired Aussies hitting the roads to enjoy what our great land has to offer.
Jay&Dee
Santa said
08:29 PM May 25, 2015
The sooner we adopt a licensing system similar to that used in the UK the better, pass the test, if you cant pass a simple test you should not be on the road endangering other road users it's a no brainer.
Public safety is far more important than economic considerations.
-- Edited by Santa on Monday 25th of May 2015 08:31:47 PM
Friar Park said
08:32 PM May 25, 2015
As I have already stated in an earlier post on this subject, as an ex heavy vehicle driver and an ex copper and with a grandson whom happens to be a road train driver (and a very good one according to his company) I get very annoyed with those journalists and nomads (old and younger) who scream for the big stick and to "get 'em off the road "Fine 'em" 'Tax 'em" Not one, other than myself and if memory serves two others, on this Forum have made the suggestion that training would be far more beneficial both to the drivers and the community, Town and Rural, than any big stick "whack round the head"approach could ever achieve.
Just a thought
Friar
Radar said
08:54 PM May 25, 2015
As a long distant transport driver for 43 years, I still can't figure what a road train driver got to do with it all.
Is he god or something better then any other driver on the road, is he special or is it because he is your son.
Hello were here to share the roads fast or heavy, slow or light. Tourist or professional.
Santa said
09:22 PM May 25, 2015
Friar Park wrote:
As I have already stated in an earlier post on this subject, as an ex heavy vehicle driver and an ex copper and with a grandson whom happens to be a road train driver (and a very good one according to his company) I get very annoyed with those journalists and nomads (old and younger) who scream for the big stick and to "get 'em off the road "Fine 'em" 'Tax 'em" Not one, other than myself and if memory serves two others, on this Forum have made the suggestion that training would be far more beneficial both to the drivers and the community, Town and Rural, than any big stick "whack round the head"approach could ever achieve.
Just a thought
Friar
Training and testing was exactly what I was suggesting in my previous post Friar.
done dreaming said
09:59 AM May 26, 2015
If training and testing works so well why do we have so many under 25's involved in fatal crashes.Their reactions are supposedly quicker and surely they would be more aware whats happening around them than us old bastards.The speed limit is the limit not the target and why do some people on this forum think other road users ie truckies have more rights than us using the roads and why is it so very important to get somewhere down the road 5 minutes quicker.
rockylizard said
10:27 AM May 26, 2015
Gday...
Let's be honest folks.
Training, testing and experience behind the wheel are very important to curb incidents on our roads. I agree.
However, drivers of cars, 4x4s, motorbikes, buses, trucks (or all sizes) are already required to be trained and tested before being given a licence. Once that licence is obtained, experience, whatever its value, grows over time.
Many operators of cars, 4x4s, motorbikes, buses and trucks (of all sizes) are involved in incidents on the roads - some minor, some major and some fatal.
So whether the driver of a car, 4x4, motorbike, bus or truck of any size has been trained, tested and gained experience we STILL have incidents.
Unfortunately, there has yet to be a process devised that will inject common-sense into the human brain. Thankfully, many have a fair smattering of common-sense but some just never seem to get it.
So we can train and test car and 4x4 drivers to tow a caravan but there will always be those who fail the common-sense test.
The journalist that has prompted this thread is one of those who definitely lacks common-sense as does those he describes, who perform dangerous acts on the road to rid themselves of being behind the caravan drivers who also lack common-sense - creating an environment charged with danger and emotion ... two things that should not be joined.
Interestingly, those who are advocates of the obvious need for training and testing to tow caravans on the highway already have the smattering of common-sense and would gain from doing so. Also, those advocates are quite probably those who already are 'safe' on the roads because of their inherent common-sense.
That is why those of us with a smattering of common-sense are charged with the responsibility of keeping a watchful eye on those around us on the roads to ensure any incidents, minor or major, are minimised.
Doesn't solve the problem of those amongst us who lack that common-sense ... but if idiots were trees we would live in an enchanted forest
Cheers - and happy, safe and enjoyable travelling - John
Radar said
10:33 AM May 26, 2015
Rock lizard go to the top of the class, sorry you were already there. Ralph.
JackoFJR said
11:00 AM May 26, 2015
Training might be a good idea but all of us really good drivers that have heaps of experience and common sence a big percentage might just fail then there would be less old farts towing vans on the road , it might just work .
Santa said
11:04 AM May 26, 2015
done dreaming wrote:
If training and testing works so well why do we have so many under 25's involved in fatal crashes.Their reactions are supposedly quicker and surely they would be more aware whats happening around them than us old bastards.The speed limit is the limit not the target and why do some people on this forum think other road users ie truckies have more rights than us using the roads and why is it so very important to get somewhere down the road 5 minutes quicker.
Sadly DD, as far as younger drivers involved in horrific crashes are concerned it's a combination of inexperience, risk taking, powerful cars and motor bikes combined with their concept of being bullet proof, guess we all have to start somewhere.
If we make it into our 30's most of us (not all) tend to gain the experience needed to share the road safely with others, the majority of us continue driving competently for a further 30 odd years until advancing age causes our driving skills to deteriorate, and of course its about the time our skills start to drop off that many people are in the position to buy a caravan or motor home, having never driven anything larger than a car, they take to the road.
So skills and abilities are declining and they are faced with towing a van or driving a motor home with little or no concept of the skills and dynamics involved, fortunately most get away with it, but some don't, and tragically some accidents involve other road users, sometimes with fatal consequences.
This is an interesting and informative article, well worth a read.
Santa the more you post the deeper the hole you find yourself in.
Bernie
Bruce and Bev said
08:07 PM May 26, 2015
Have a look at page 2 or 3 on "I Digress" - heading is "war on caravaners.
Deals with this **** - who calls himself a reporter - and the reaction to the article which was scanned and posted here.
The only good thing about the story - with absolutely no supporting facts to its stupid ranting claims - was it was posted on pg 55 of this rubbishy rag calling itself a newspaper - the same page as death notices were published that day. I actually emailed this idiot - needless to say he didn't reply. Apparently he has written similar screeching stories about gays, boat people, single mothers, age pensioners......
Hes obviously a shock jock and would be better off on Sydney talk back radio (maybe hes trying to be noticed by a suitable radio station - perhaps at the Antarctic). Its a reflection of the rags publisher and editor that they allow garbage like this to be written without any facts to support his rubbish
And this post needs to be buried without ceremony at all. I agree with all the comments of Ozzie Traveller (Phil)
Radar said
08:11 PM May 26, 2015
Bruce and Bev hi.
Hear, hear. Ralph.
JayDee said
03:48 PM May 27, 2015
Totaly concur with Rocky Lizard and Radar.
Well scribed John
Jay&Dee.
Santa said
04:26 PM May 27, 2015
JayDee wrote:
Totaly concur with Rocky Lizard and Radar. Well scribed John Jay&Dee.
Yep, I agree JayDee, Rocky Lizards post indicates a lot of common sense.
Phil C said
12:04 PM May 28, 2015
Hi folks, what a great discussion we are having.
IMHO it a fairly simple process of respect, wisdom and concentration on task. Many times I have been overtaken buy dills in fast cars and they put the brakes on a few meters in front of me, perhaps they want to see me lock up the brakes. There was a bloke who pulled out in front of me going down a hill again heavy breathing and braking.
It's a fact of life there are idiots on our roads, and we as safe caravaners need to be on task all the time. I try to have all distractions off except the wife who will talk with a mouth full of marbles underwater lol.
As far as the media is concerned, I have but one word for all of them d1ckheads, I have seen so much untruth in media reports I have lost faith in them all.
The key, I believe, here is respect each other out there, drive at your pace and safe speed and be courteous to other road users. OH and put your lights on!
This guy (Paul Syvret) is spot on, he makes some very valid points, in particular with refererence to the driving habits of many drivers towing caravans. I don't agree with everything he says, however, much of what he says is very true.
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/opinion/opinion-its-time-to-tackle-the-unregulated-and-undertaxed-menace-of-caravans/story-fnihsr9v-1227357491400
"Lets face it, for the average (non-vanning) motorist, caravans are the highway equivalent of cholesterol the stuff born of overindulgence that clogs up the arteries and, if allowed to fester, could well kill you in the long run.
Weve all endured them, trundling along at a stately pace usually about 20km/h below the posted limit often drifting in inelegant arcs across any inconvenient lane markings that may happen to present themselves.
Dont push it above 80km/h, Harold, it wont be good for our fuel economy.
Yes, luv. See if you can find Macca on the radio.
They are, generally speaking, totally oblivious to the world around them, unless of course its a sign advertising a free cuppa and bikkies at the next Driver Reviver stop, or any other facilities where they dont have to actually spend money."
Didnt get to read the article as I didnt want to subscribe to the service, however got the general gist from your comments.
I have a nephew who is a B double interstate truckie. some of his mates hate "wobblies" as they call caravans because of the reasons you have mooted. HOWEVER when I asked him how I could share the highways with truckies he made some very good points.
1. Always listen out on chan 40 for truckies, they will tell you what they want to do to pass you
2. Move over as soon as safe to let them by, after you tell them what you are doing (no surprises that way)
3. Be very aware that there are some bad tempered truckies that will try to make you have a bad day, ditto to wobbly drivers as well
4. Dont be a DH when it comes to driving, remember car in front rules.
Be safe and SHARE the roads.
Cheers and thanks for the post, its sure to create some active chat.
G'day Phil, your nephew makes some good common sense points.
I 'm pretty sure most of us are in favour of this.
Problem is that many older drivers towing vans seem to be unaware there are other drivers on the road.
Many of them don't need to be towing to be totally unaware of others around them!
Towing simply adds another level of problems to avoiding them and an accident.
The comments in this post were done without much thought the old saying is to keep quite and be thought a fool, rather then to open your mouth and remove all dought.
G'day all
My response to this appalling article was:-
Who is the idiot writing this rubbish - OMG not an ounce of truth or common sense in any line of text
Has this fool ever towed a caravan or driven a motorhome?
Has this fool ever had some richard-head in a small zippy car steal his safe-stopping-zone while pulling up at the lights?
Has this fool ever tried driving safely thru a series of S-bends and felt the sway of the vehicle, and thus backed off from highway-permitted speed to a reduced speed / safe travelling speed?
There are many thousands of caravans & motorhomes on the highways every day and in percentage terms for vehicles, passenger cars have more prangs per 1000 vehicles than do caravans or motorhomes
Does this fool of a journalist propose to offer any ideas for those car drivers ... many of whom have a special "P" for Privileged or "P" Professional Driver [take your pick] and we all know the results of those drivers
Maybe this fool needs to accompany a Grey Nomad for a week or so to find out the real-world reality, but I bet he would
a) never do so, and
b) would never write an apology for the rubbish in today's paper
Phil
He is the Courier Mail's regular sh1t stirrer. He (or he and his mates) regurgitates this story every year or three.
-- Edited by PeterD on Monday 25th of May 2015 02:04:36 PM
Not a sh*t stirrer at all, he has outlined some very real issues, sooner or later they will have to be addressed.
We all have to share the road with these doddery old buggers, so, as far as I'm concerned the sooner the problem is looked at the better.
So how about more support for our lifestyle and talk of the positives rather than all the gloom and doom, that this reporter writes.
So ok, there is the odd accident, but to the media bad news of the accident, becomes good news to them.
Here is to more retired Aussies hitting the roads to enjoy what our great land has to offer.
Jay&Dee
The sooner we adopt a licensing system similar to that used in the UK the better, pass the test, if you cant pass a simple test you should not be on the road endangering other road users it's a no brainer.
Public safety is far more important than economic considerations.
http://www.nidirect.gov.uk/the-driving-licence-you-need-to-tow-a-caravan-or-trailer
-- Edited by Santa on Monday 25th of May 2015 08:31:47 PM
As I have already stated in an earlier post on this subject, as an ex heavy vehicle driver and an ex copper and with a grandson whom happens to be a road train driver (and a very good one according to his company) I get very annoyed with those journalists and nomads (old and younger) who scream for the big stick and to "get 'em off the road "Fine 'em" 'Tax 'em" Not one, other than myself and if memory serves two others, on this Forum have made the suggestion that training would be far more beneficial both to the drivers and the community, Town and Rural, than any big stick "whack round the head"approach could ever achieve.
Just a thought
Friar
As a long distant transport driver for 43 years, I still can't figure what a road train driver got to do with it all.
Is he god or something better then any other driver on the road, is he special or is it because he is your son.
Hello were here to share the roads fast or heavy, slow or light. Tourist or professional.
Training and testing was exactly what I was suggesting in my previous post Friar.
Gday...
Let's be honest folks.
Training, testing and experience behind the wheel are very important to curb incidents on our roads. I agree.
However, drivers of cars, 4x4s, motorbikes, buses, trucks (or all sizes) are already required to be trained and tested before being given a licence. Once that licence is obtained, experience, whatever its value, grows over time.
Many operators of cars, 4x4s, motorbikes, buses and trucks (of all sizes) are involved in incidents on the roads - some minor, some major and some fatal.
So whether the driver of a car, 4x4, motorbike, bus or truck of any size has been trained, tested and gained experience we STILL have incidents.
Unfortunately, there has yet to be a process devised that will inject common-sense into the human brain. Thankfully, many have a fair smattering of common-sense but some just never seem to get it.
So we can train and test car and 4x4 drivers to tow a caravan but there will always be those who fail the common-sense test.
The journalist that has prompted this thread is one of those who definitely lacks common-sense as does those he describes, who perform dangerous acts on the road to rid themselves of being behind the caravan drivers who also lack common-sense - creating an environment charged with danger and emotion ... two things that should not be joined.
Interestingly, those who are advocates of the obvious need for training and testing to tow caravans on the highway already have the smattering of common-sense and would gain from doing so. Also, those advocates are quite probably those who already are 'safe' on the roads because of their inherent common-sense.
That is why those of us with a smattering of common-sense are charged with the responsibility of keeping a watchful eye on those around us on the roads to ensure any incidents, minor or major, are minimised.
Doesn't solve the problem of those amongst us who lack that common-sense ... but if idiots were trees we would live in an enchanted forest
Cheers - and happy, safe and enjoyable travelling - John
Rock lizard go to the top of the class, sorry you were already there. Ralph.
Sadly DD, as far as younger drivers involved in horrific crashes are concerned it's a combination of inexperience, risk taking, powerful cars and motor bikes combined with their concept of being bullet proof, guess we all have to start somewhere.
If we make it into our 30's most of us (not all) tend to gain the experience needed to share the road safely with others, the majority of us continue driving competently for a further 30 odd years until advancing age causes our driving skills to deteriorate, and of course its about the time our skills start to drop off that many people are in the position to buy a caravan or motor home, having never driven anything larger than a car, they take to the road.
So skills and abilities are declining and they are faced with towing a van or driving a motor home with little or no concept of the skills and dynamics involved, fortunately most get away with it, but some don't, and tragically some accidents involve other road users, sometimes with fatal consequences.
This is an interesting and informative article, well worth a read.
http://health.howstuffworks.com/wellness/aging/aging-process/age-and-driving.htm
Bernie
Deals with this **** - who calls himself a reporter - and the reaction to the article which was scanned and posted here.
The only good thing about the story - with absolutely no supporting facts to its stupid ranting claims - was it was posted on pg 55 of this rubbishy rag calling itself a newspaper - the same page as death notices were published that day. I actually emailed this idiot - needless to say he didn't reply. Apparently he has written similar screeching stories about gays, boat people, single mothers, age pensioners......
Hes obviously a shock jock and would be better off on Sydney talk back radio (maybe hes trying to be noticed by a suitable radio station - perhaps at the Antarctic). Its a reflection of the rags publisher and editor that they allow garbage like this to be written without any facts to support his rubbish
And this post needs to be buried without ceremony at all. I agree with all the comments of Ozzie Traveller (Phil)
Bruce and Bev hi.
Hear, hear. Ralph.
Well scribed John
Jay&Dee.
Yep, I agree JayDee, Rocky Lizards post indicates a lot of common sense.
IMHO it a fairly simple process of respect, wisdom and concentration on task. Many times I have been overtaken buy dills in fast cars and they put the brakes on a few meters in front of me, perhaps they want to see me lock up the brakes. There was a bloke who pulled out in front of me going down a hill again heavy breathing and braking.
It's a fact of life there are idiots on our roads, and we as safe caravaners need to be on task all the time. I try to have all distractions off except the wife who will talk with a mouth full of marbles underwater lol.
As far as the media is concerned, I have but one word for all of them d1ckheads, I have seen so much untruth in media reports I have lost faith in them all.
The key, I believe, here is respect each other out there, drive at your pace and safe speed and be courteous to other road users. OH and put your lights on!
Safe travels.