Our recently purchased 2011 van originally had a 3 way fridge but previous owner changed to a 12v/240v Waeco compressor fridge. Our first time away last week we had a bit of trouble where the fridge did not stay cooled even though we have 2 x120w solar on top. After only 24hrs it started to warm up and the fault light was blinking. It has been suggested that the CTEK Muli XS15000 Battery charger may not be adequate enough to have the fridge on 12v instead of being used to only having (led lights) to run.?????
Kim
PeterD said
06:34 PM Jun 29, 2015
Kim your post is a bit of a conundrum to me. Were you on 240 V power or were you relying on your panels. (quote "did not stay cooled even though we have 2 x120w solar on top") The 15 A Ctek charger is sufficient, if you were on 240 V power then I would say you have other problems (including a crook charger.)
TheHeaths said
08:03 PM Jun 29, 2015
Kim,
The charger is 240 volt, so if not on power will not work. It will not work with solar anytime.
The problem with the fridge is covered in your other thread, and is likely related more to the following
1) The size of your available batteries (100ah I think)
2) The draw of the fridge. That will be in the paper work, but if it is drawing 4 or 5 amps, it will use over the amp hours you have available.
I suggest you look at what amps your fridge draws, and then post that in your fridge thread, as that will give people more to give you a helpful answer.
I don't think opening additional threads, without all the information is going to help fix your issues.
Phil C said
08:47 PM Jun 29, 2015
Hi all, I am going to ignore what has been previously said (no offence intended in that) and put up some theory.
The general rule of thumb in charging lead acid batteries (including AGM etc) is that they charge best and safer at the ten hour rate, meaning if you have a 100 AH battery it will be best charged at 10 amps for 10 hours. That's the theory.
In real terms, a battery's internal resistance will determine the amount of current it takes. If your charger will supply the higher currents it's probably not a good idea to have a 100 amp charger hooked up to a flat 100 AH battery, that will cause a lot of damage to the plates due to heat. Therefore, a limited charge at the ten hour rate will be the best for the health and longevity of your batteries.
In answering your OP I think that's been done already.
Cheers
dogbox said
05:28 PM Jun 30, 2015
if the fridge draws 70 watts an runs for 10 hours a day that would be 700 watts divide by 12 = 58 amp/hours which would be the upper limit of your 100amp battery without using anything else electrical
if 240 watts solar divide by 12 =20 amps available to charge the battery you would need 3 hours of sun to replace used power
assuming perfect world no losses 100% efficient
would my calculation be correct
if they are a 100 amp battery doesn't cut the mustard
gandk said
07:51 AM Jul 1, 2015
Sorry about all the missing info but I am a mere woman and not really into all this technical stuff but one of us has to try and sort it out and he wont. So
1. we were free camping using solar with approx. half a days sun. Not great.
2. Our battery is a full river agm 120ah
3. If the charger (as Ian said) is only good for 240v how do the solar panels charge the battery?
Jaahn said
08:41 AM Jul 1, 2015
gandk wrote:
Sorry about all the missing info but I am a mere woman and not really into all this technical stuff but one of us has to try and sort it out and he wont. So 1. we were free camping using solar with approx. half a days sun. Not great. 2. Our battery is a full river agm 120ah 3. If the charger (as Ian said) is only good for 240v how do the solar panels charge the battery?
Hi gandk,
Perhaps we have been answering the wrong questions here.
The fridge will cut out and flash its fault light if the battery voltage falls below a set low voltage. This is to protect the battery from becoming ruined by being run down too far.
Now the battery can be charged several ways, we do not know exactly what you have fitted to your van.
First; it has a CTEC charger you said but that will only work if it is plugged into the 240v power. It cannot do any charging if it has no 240 power.
Second; it has solar panels on the roof. These should have a controller fitted to take that solar power and put it into the battery also, seperate to the other charger. This only works when the sun shines and the suns rays are strong and shine on the panels directly.
Third; the battery can be charged by the electrical system in the tow vehicle, when the engine is running. We do not know if you have this ?
Fourth; You could also have a generator to run and use this to charge up the batteries if there is no other power available, from a power point or from the sun.
Now this may clarify for you how the batteries get their power. The next step is to work out how much power the fridge uses and if you are putting enough into the batteries to cover that power. Other replies have tried to show this. Just like at home there is no free power, you must make it somehow before you can use it.
Jaahn
-- Edited by Jaahn on Wednesday 1st of July 2015 08:46:36 AM
TheHeaths said
09:09 AM Jul 1, 2015
Kim,
I know how your husband feels as I am a technical idiot, but have developed enough knowledge to get most things sorted in our van as we go. I am certain either he or you will be able to do it as well.
I am also certain there will be a simple answer that someone on the forum can provide, but a little more information as Jaahn and I have said will help them find it.
I suspect your solar will be connected correctly, your vehicle will be charging your batteries when driving (albeit not greatly) , and your C Tek charger ( a very good brand I will add), will do the job when you are connected to 240 volt.
What I suspect, and has also been commented on by Jaahn, is that the 120 aH battery is insufficient for the fridge and other power draw when you are off grid. As the fridge would be the major draw, it will give people something to go on if you can look in any documentation you have for the fridge, and in the specification, see if you can see the amperage that the fridge draws being used.
I suspect that the figure will be something of the order of 4 - 6 amps, and in that case, the fridge would be needing something between 96 - 144 aH of battery storage per 24 hour period. Based on not drawing batteries below 50 %, this would then require some 200 - 300 ah of battery, and also sufficient solar panel output to recharge at least that amount every day.
So, if you can provide that amperage draw detail, I think you will get a quick, helpful answer that will allow you to solve your issue.
TheHeaths said
04:09 PM Jul 1, 2015
Kim,
further to my last post, I googled the Waeco fridge, and they seem to have an average power draw of between 60 and 70 watts, or 5 to 6 amps per hour on 12 volt.
I think the simple answer to your fridge problem is lack of battery capacity. The Waeco fridge will draw an average of 120 to 144 aH per day, and you simply don't have it. As such, it flattens your battery, then it warms up. Your solar cannot replenish the battery, as the draw exceeds the panels output.
I would suggest that you either reinstall the 3 way, or up battery capacity to 240 to 360aH, with installation of 1 or 2 more batteries, and increase solar panel capacity to allow you to replenish your draw each day. Others will be better able to tell you what you need wrt solar panel capacity.
I would leave your CTek alone, as I suspect it is fine for times when you are on 240 volt, and it charges your batteries.
gandk said
07:44 PM Jul 1, 2015
OK. Thank you Jaahn and Ian. How you have put it above now makes sense. We just tried it again today and had the 240v plugged in o/night. No problem the fridge worked fine.
Then at about midday we disconnected the 240v and had the van out in full sun. It didn't take long for the fridge to start and warm up and the fault light to start flashing. Unfortunately we had a bit of an emergency and couldn't check the instruments and it was dark when we came home. But I do know that the CTEK showed the battery to be fully charged prior to disconnecting 240v lead.
Yes Jaahn, we do connect to the Anderson plug on the vehicle when travelling so it works then fine as well.
Anyway hopefully our son shall sort it. But as the battery is brand new and was fully charged I think we have been duded on the van, in that he probably realised that the solar was not going to run that fridge. Anyway that's the problem of having to buy second hand and local. Not much to choose from.
Thanks again explaining it in easy to read language.
Kim
dogbox said
08:23 PM Jul 1, 2015
if my calculations are correct in my previous post
the fridge doesn't run continuously but cycles on an off so at worst if it ran for 10 hrs out of 24(subject to ambient temp an how often you open the door) an drew an maximum of 70 watts per hour that would be 700 watts or about 58 amp/hrs a simple fix would be to add another 120amp battery in parallell then if you can average 4-5 hours sun a day the fridge should continue to work ok. a portable solar panel so you could track the sun would fix the problem of limited sun. with the 2x 120 amp batteries you could even watch tv ect
Dav4Cris said
08:04 AM Jul 2, 2015
I would suggest you take your van to good RV repair place that specialise in Solar. Get them to check your solar regulator. Saying that, I do agree with the others, I think you need more battery power and more solar to be able to run your fridge successfully on 12v
Jaahn said
09:36 AM Jul 2, 2015
Hi gandk,
It does sound like you might have a couple of problems for your son to look at.
If the fridge quits so soon after the 240 has been disconnected the solar may not be working properly. AND/OR the fridge may be poorly wired and wasting the power in skinny inadequate wires or bad connections.
If you can get to the bottom of these problems first THEN you can assess whether you have enough battery storage to do the job. I hope you have some meter to tell you how the battery is going or it can be hard to tell what is happening until there is a failure.
Good luck Jaahn
gandk said
03:53 PM Jul 2, 2015
Dav4Cris wrote:
I would suggest you take your van to good RV repair place that specialise in Solar. Get them to check your solar regulator. Saying that, I do agree with the others, I think you need more battery power and more solar to be able to run your fridge successfully on 12v
I agree Dav4Cris but unfortunately there isn't any close to Mackay that I know of.
Yes Jaahn we do have the metres inside the van so son should be able to work that part of it out. I shall let you know how we go.
PeterD said
09:05 AM Jul 3, 2015
gandk wrote:
Then at about midday we disconnected the 240v and had the van out in full sun. It didn't take long for the fridge to start and warm up and the fault light to start flashing.
That indicates a potential battery problem to me. A 120 Ah battery should last you nearly 48 hours in this weather. Your battery is either very sick or there is a large current draw on it apart from the fridge. Your Ctek charger should charge it overnight. Switch of both the power to your charger and the 240 V power to your fridge when you get up in the morning. Monitor the battery voltage to see how quickly the battery voltage dies.
If the sun was shining when you switched the power off then it should alone been able to maintain the fridge before you went out. Looks like troubles there. I think there are too many problems in the system for us to diagnose your system on the forum. Best you get the van to a good solar technician or your son quickly.
Phil C said
01:54 PM Jul 5, 2015
PeterD wrote:
gandk wrote:
Then at about midday we disconnected the 240v and had the van out in full sun. It didn't take long for the fridge to start and warm up and the fault light to start flashing.
That indicates a potential battery problem to me. A 120 Ah battery should last you nearly 48 hours in this weather. Your battery is either very sick or there is a large current draw on it apart from the fridge. Your Ctek charger should charge it overnight. Switch of both the power to your charger and the 240 V power to your fridge when you get up in the morning. Monitor the battery voltage to see how quickly the battery voltage dies.
If the sun was shining when you switched the power off then it should alone been able to maintain the fridge before you went out. Looks like troubles there. I think there are too many problems in the system for us to diagnose your system on the forum. Best you get the van to a good solar technician or your son quickly.
I do agree PeterD.
iana said
07:26 PM Jul 11, 2015
Hmm after a couple of glasses of white, this thread reads about a fella called Stu Dent who's brought out a petition in Scotland, about Ctek chargers running on 240 v where have I gone wrong?
Now that is weird, when I opened this post it was about a guy named Stu Dent putting up a petition for North England to become part of Scotland. Even the heading of the thread was different. Now the thread makes sense?
-- Edited by iana on Saturday 11th of July 2015 08:35:37 PM
Our recently purchased 2011 van originally had a 3 way fridge but previous owner changed to a 12v/240v Waeco compressor fridge. Our first time away last week we had a bit of trouble where the fridge did not stay cooled even though we have 2 x120w solar on top. After only 24hrs it started to warm up and the fault light was blinking. It has been suggested that the CTEK Muli XS15000 Battery charger may not be adequate enough to have the fridge on 12v instead of being used to only having (led lights) to run.?????
Kim
Kim,
The charger is 240 volt, so if not on power will not work. It will not work with solar anytime.
The problem with the fridge is covered in your other thread, and is likely related more to the following
1) The size of your available batteries (100ah I think)
2) The draw of the fridge. That will be in the paper work, but if it is drawing 4 or 5 amps, it will use over the amp hours you have available.
I suggest you look at what amps your fridge draws, and then post that in your fridge thread, as that will give people more to give you a helpful answer.
I don't think opening additional threads, without all the information is going to help fix your issues.
The general rule of thumb in charging lead acid batteries (including AGM etc) is that they charge best and safer at the ten hour rate, meaning if you have a 100 AH battery it will be best charged at 10 amps for 10 hours. That's the theory.
In real terms, a battery's internal resistance will determine the amount of current it takes. If your charger will supply the higher currents it's probably not a good idea to have a 100 amp charger hooked up to a flat 100 AH battery, that will cause a lot of damage to the plates due to heat. Therefore, a limited charge at the ten hour rate will be the best for the health and longevity of your batteries.
In answering your OP I think that's been done already.
Cheers
if 240 watts solar divide by 12 =20 amps available to charge the battery you would need 3 hours of sun to replace used power
assuming perfect world no losses 100% efficient
would my calculation be correct
if they are a 100 amp battery doesn't cut the mustard
1. we were free camping using solar with approx. half a days sun. Not great.
2. Our battery is a full river agm 120ah
3. If the charger (as Ian said) is only good for 240v how do the solar panels charge the battery?
Hi gandk,
Perhaps we have been answering the wrong questions here.
The fridge will cut out and flash its fault light if the battery voltage falls below a set low voltage. This is to protect the battery from becoming ruined by being run down too far.
Now the battery can be charged several ways, we do not know exactly what you have fitted to your van.
First; it has a CTEC charger you said but that will only work if it is plugged into the 240v power. It cannot do any charging if it has no 240 power.
Second; it has solar panels on the roof. These should have a controller fitted to take that solar power and put it into the battery also, seperate to the other charger. This only works when the sun shines and the suns rays are strong and shine on the panels directly.
Third; the battery can be charged by the electrical system in the tow vehicle, when the engine is running. We do not know if you have this ?
Fourth; You could also have a generator to run and use this to charge up the batteries if there is no other power available, from a power point or from the sun.
Now this may clarify for you how the batteries get their power. The next step is to work out how much power the fridge uses and if you are putting enough into the batteries to cover that power. Other replies have tried to show this. Just like at home there is no free power, you must make it somehow before you can use it.
Jaahn
-- Edited by Jaahn on Wednesday 1st of July 2015 08:46:36 AM
I know how your husband feels as I am a technical idiot, but have developed enough knowledge to get most things sorted in our van as we go. I am certain either he or you will be able to do it as well.
I am also certain there will be a simple answer that someone on the forum can provide, but a little more information as Jaahn and I have said will help them find it.
I suspect your solar will be connected correctly, your vehicle will be charging your batteries when driving (albeit not greatly) , and your C Tek charger ( a very good brand I will add), will do the job when you are connected to 240 volt.
What I suspect, and has also been commented on by Jaahn, is that the 120 aH battery is insufficient for the fridge and other power draw when you are off grid. As the fridge would be the major draw, it will give people something to go on if you can look in any documentation you have for the fridge, and in the specification, see if you can see the amperage that the fridge draws being used.
I suspect that the figure will be something of the order of 4 - 6 amps, and in that case, the fridge would be needing something between 96 - 144 aH of battery storage per 24 hour period. Based on not drawing batteries below 50 %, this would then require some 200 - 300 ah of battery, and also sufficient solar panel output to recharge at least that amount every day.
So, if you can provide that amperage draw detail, I think you will get a quick, helpful answer that will allow you to solve your issue.
further to my last post, I googled the Waeco fridge, and they seem to have an average power draw of between 60 and 70 watts, or 5 to 6 amps per hour on 12 volt.
I think the simple answer to your fridge problem is lack of battery capacity. The Waeco fridge will draw an average of 120 to 144 aH per day, and you simply don't have it. As such, it flattens your battery, then it warms up. Your solar cannot replenish the battery, as the draw exceeds the panels output.
I would suggest that you either reinstall the 3 way, or up battery capacity to 240 to 360aH, with installation of 1 or 2 more batteries, and increase solar panel capacity to allow you to replenish your draw each day. Others will be better able to tell you what you need wrt solar panel capacity.
I would leave your CTek alone, as I suspect it is fine for times when you are on 240 volt, and it charges your batteries.
Then at about midday we disconnected the 240v and had the van out in full sun. It didn't take long for the fridge to start and warm up and the fault light to start flashing. Unfortunately we had a bit of an emergency and couldn't check the instruments and it was dark when we came home. But I do know that the CTEK showed the battery to be fully charged prior to disconnecting 240v lead.
Yes Jaahn, we do connect to the Anderson plug on the vehicle when travelling so it works then fine as well.
Anyway hopefully our son shall sort it. But as the battery is brand new and was fully charged I think we have been duded on the van, in that he probably realised that the solar was not going to run that fridge. Anyway that's the problem of having to buy second hand and local. Not much to choose from.
Thanks again explaining it in easy to read language.
Kim
the fridge doesn't run continuously but cycles on an off so at worst if it ran for 10 hrs out of 24(subject to ambient temp an how often you open the door) an drew an maximum of 70 watts per hour that would be 700 watts or about 58 amp/hrs a simple fix would be to add another 120amp battery in parallell then if you can average 4-5 hours sun a day the fridge should continue to work ok. a portable solar panel so you could track the sun would fix the problem of limited sun. with the 2x 120 amp batteries you could even watch tv ect
Hi gandk,
It does sound like you might have a couple of problems for your son to look at.
If the fridge quits so soon after the 240 has been disconnected the solar may not be working properly. AND/OR the fridge may be poorly wired and wasting the power in skinny inadequate wires or bad connections.
If you can get to the bottom of these problems first THEN you can assess whether you have enough battery storage to do the job. I hope you have some meter to tell you how the battery is going or it can be hard to tell what is happening until there is a failure.
Good luck Jaahn
I agree Dav4Cris but unfortunately there isn't any close to Mackay that I know of.
Yes Jaahn we do have the metres inside the van so son should be able to work that part of it out. I shall let you know how we go.
That indicates a potential battery problem to me. A 120 Ah battery should last you nearly 48 hours in this weather. Your battery is either very sick or there is a large current draw on it apart from the fridge. Your Ctek charger should charge it overnight. Switch of both the power to your charger and the 240 V power to your fridge when you get up in the morning. Monitor the battery voltage to see how quickly the battery voltage dies.
If the sun was shining when you switched the power off then it should alone been able to maintain the fridge before you went out. Looks like troubles there. I think there are too many problems in the system for us to diagnose your system on the forum. Best you get the van to a good solar technician or your son quickly.
I do agree PeterD.
Hmm after a couple of glasses of white, this thread reads about a fella called Stu Dent who's brought out a petition in Scotland, about Ctek chargers running on 240 v where have I gone wrong?
Now that is weird, when I opened this post it was about a guy named Stu Dent putting up a petition for North England to become part of Scotland. Even the heading of the thread was different. Now the thread makes sense?
-- Edited by iana on Saturday 11th of July 2015 08:35:37 PM