Why is it every time I Google a caravan question/problem I find pages of confusing often contradictory information?
I'm currently checking all functions on my J/Heritage.
Got to the 5000 Breaksafe factory installed in the Heritage. Press the test button and battery shows red and I'm aware the 12V 7.0Amp Hour Century Battery in it is only 18 monts old.
I read the instructions and it states not to use a charger more than 8Amps maximum.....so I connect to charge through the two black and red terminals with a 6AMP 12V automatic Mobitronic Charger <Waeco>....leave on for 12 hours and charger shows red light rather than charged <green light>and so does the 5000 test button....Put my V tester across the red and black terminals of the 5000..no reading....nothing responds....so I figure I need new battery.
My usual battery charger is a Repco 3 stage 10,000mA 12V automatic so did not attempt to use it after reading the 5000 instructions
Fair enough I just bought a new Century from Supa Cheap for $49! <not cheap> and installed....when I took the other Century out it is 12.3V on my tester....it was not flat at all.
After installation of new battery the5000 battery test shows green fully charged....when I again connect the Mobitronic charger it indicates it is not charged/cannot be charged.....
When I google I find much contradictory info given to others that have apparently had similar problems with the 5000.....and its battery..
Q: As some recommended a "simple' charger rather than automatic as apparently the 5000 cannot be charged with an automatic charger as it does not recognize it...What 'simple' charger should I get to charge after periods I have not used the Van....I presume the 5000 battery is normally charged by my vehicle when towing?....is this the way the Jayco Heritage was set up?....
Q: Have others been fooled into thinking their battery had 'given up' when they could not charge through the two terminals designed to actually charge it?..or been fooled into thinking they are charging it when they are not....<depending on the charger being used>...the digital multimeter not giving any reading does not help....why is this so when connected to the red and black terminals?..
Q: Do others perform the recommended Breaksafe functionality test be carried out monthly?..i.e. to pull out the pin on the draw bar and all the rear caravan lights are illuminated and the test light on the Breaksafe lights up green and I presume the electric brakes are applied....can this be tested?.....when the pin is re-inserted all lights go off and I presume electric brakes are returned to normal.....with the new battery all working fine...and its ironic if I had tested before removing old battery it may well have been fully functional as well...and I did not really need to replace the battery at this stage....my misreading the signals cost $49....
I've gone into considerable detail detail not only to raise the question and others may identify with this.... but also to raise awareness of the monthly testing requirement of this important bit of gear.....something which is easy to let slip under the radar....
Hoo Roo
-- Edited by Goldfinger on Monday 6th of April 2015 12:04:10 PM
aussie_paul said
12:17 PM Apr 6, 2015
Hi Larry, sometimes it is hard to sort the wheat from the chaff information. I still do not know how my BS 6000 is charged. I have charged it from the red and black screw on terminal, BUT when removing the charger there is no voltage at those terminals. We have been touring for shortish (up to 10 days) trips since Jan 2014, and have had to learn a heck of a lot and received help on every topic from Cindy's forum here.
Worst part is I still do not know our van in every important detail. I am quite disabled now so I tend to ask first before I start pulling things apart to find out how things work. That was how I used to operated before my accident 7 years ago. I probably wrecked more than I fixed BUT I felt good about having a go!!!! My health does not allow me to doing things more than once, called energy management!!! That accounts for my highish post count.
Aussie Paul.
dorian said
02:20 PM Apr 6, 2015
Maybe there is a series connected protection diode on the positive input?
diode
Charger + o--->|---o Bat +
I would use a multimeter to test for the presence of the diode, with the battery disconnected.
PeterD said
03:20 PM Apr 6, 2015
Do you have the three sheets of instructions that come with the unit? If not you can download any missing ones from here.
The instructions seem clear to me. You were trying to read the battery level by putting your meter across the input to the trickle charger:
CHARGING
Charging of the Breaksafe battery can be done via the tow vehicle auxiliary line (Breaksafe black wire) or by connecting a small battery charger (8 amps maximum) to the red and black terminals on the front of the Breaksafe box. The orange charge light next to the red terminal will illuminate when the Breaksafe battery is connected to 12 volts for charging. The charging system in the Breaksafe unit is a trickle charge circuit only and it may take several hours for the battery to fully recharge.
Was the orange charge light on when you were charging the battery through the front panel terminals? Some chargers require a few volts at their output before they commence to charge. Find yourself a charger that will produce at least 12 V at its output when not connected to anything. Alternately you could try removing the house battery from its cradle and using that to see if you can get some charge into the battery.
The other thing to check is the "hot wire" connection from your tug to the Breaksafe unit. If need be you can stick pins through the black (positive) and white (earth) wires to check you have battery power from your tug when hooked up. If you get that working properly you can recharge your battery charged whilst you drive (if you drive for long enough.) Another alternative would be to get yourself a 12 V power brick with a 1 - 2 A output and use that to keep your battery in good nick.
TEST BUTTON
Use the test button to test the condition of the built-in battery. This should be checked each time the trailer is used. Depress the button momentarily and check the battery level lights. The test button will also energise the trailer brakes and brake lights.
As you can see, when you press the test button you put a considerable load (quite a few amps on a 7 Ah battery is a considerable load.) With that in mind pressing the test switch when the battery is down a little may not produce a green light. This does not mean the battery is stuffed, a battery with a rested voltage of 12.3 V most likely would not produce a charged indication on the test lights. It may just need recharging.
-- Edited by PeterD on Monday 6th of April 2015 03:26:52 PM
This means that there cannot be a diode in the path. Instead I'm wondering if the charging input is separately fused, and if this fuse is open. However, this doesn't explain why an automatic charger cannot sense the battery voltage in a known working unit, as the OP's Internet research would suggest.
Phil C said
05:04 PM Apr 7, 2015
This may be the wrong thing to do but I have a small ctek (5a) charger directly on the battery terminals, no problem after a year, so I'm guessing it's ok.
G'day Dorian, good to see you.
dorian said
08:20 AM Apr 9, 2015
Nice to see you, too, PhilC. Hope you're well.
I notice that the documentation states that the battery can be charged by the vehicle's charging system via a black Auxiliary wire. I'm wondering how the two charging sources are isolated from each other, and this leads me to thinking about diodes again.
Phil C said
06:56 PM Apr 9, 2015
G'day again mate, because we have been sitting a while and working in the vineyard the battery does go flat. Isolation comes about by disconnecting the 240 which kills the charger, of course when it's on tow the batt is charged as you said.
Cheers
KevinC said
05:35 PM Apr 13, 2015
Aussie Paul,
I just had my first taste of breaksafe battery hassles today. My understanding is that the 6000 unit, which you and I both have, has its own charger in the box, Therefore it doesn't require an external charger like I believe earlier models did, but simply a 12 volt supply to the red and black terminals. Someone has suggested that the instruction sheet is a bit misleading on this point. It may be that the use of a charger on the 6000 won't work.
I'm still at the stage of charging my battery on the bench, so I can't offer information as fact, just a maybe.
aussie_paul said
06:12 PM Apr 13, 2015
KevinC wrote:
Aussie Paul,
I just had my first taste of breaksafe battery hassles today. My understanding is that the 6000 unit, which you and I both have, has its own charger in the box, Therefore it doesn't require an external charger like I believe earlier models did, but simply a 12 volt supply to the red and black terminals. Someone has suggested that the instruction sheet is a bit misleading on this point. It may be that the use of a charger on the 6000 won't work. I'm still at the stage of charging my battery on the bench, so I can't offer information as fact, just a maybe.
Hi Kevin, a couple of days ago I double checked my 6000. It is charged by the tug through pin 2 when the tug is running, AND I charged it from my portable solar panel through the red and black terminal on the 6000.
Why is it every time I Google a caravan question/problem I find pages of confusing often contradictory information?
I'm currently checking all functions on my J/Heritage.
Got to the 5000 Breaksafe factory installed in the Heritage. Press the test button and battery shows red and I'm aware the 12V 7.0Amp Hour Century Battery in it is only 18 monts old.
I read the instructions and it states not to use a charger more than 8Amps maximum.....so I connect to charge through the two black and red terminals with a 6AMP 12V automatic Mobitronic Charger <Waeco>....leave on for 12 hours and charger shows red light rather than charged <green light>and so does the 5000 test button....Put my V tester across the red and black terminals of the 5000..no reading....nothing responds....so I figure I need new battery.
My usual battery charger is a Repco 3 stage 10,000mA 12V automatic so did not attempt to use it after reading the 5000 instructions
Fair enough I just bought a new Century from Supa Cheap for $49! <not cheap> and installed....when I took the other Century out it is 12.3V on my tester....it was not flat at all.
After installation of new battery the5000 battery test shows green fully charged....when I again connect the Mobitronic charger it indicates it is not charged/cannot be charged.....
When I google I find much contradictory info given to others that have apparently had similar problems with the 5000.....and its battery..
Q: As some recommended a "simple' charger rather than automatic as apparently the 5000 cannot be charged with an automatic charger as it does not recognize it...What 'simple' charger should I get to charge after periods I have not used the Van....I presume the 5000 battery is normally charged by my vehicle when towing?....is this the way the Jayco Heritage was set up?....
Q: Have others been fooled into thinking their battery had 'given up' when they could not charge through the two terminals designed to actually charge it?..or been fooled into thinking they are charging it when they are not....<depending on the charger being used>...the digital multimeter not giving any reading does not help....why is this so when connected to the red and black terminals?..
Q: Do others perform the recommended Breaksafe functionality test be carried out monthly?..i.e. to pull out the pin on the draw bar and all the rear caravan lights are illuminated and the test light on the Breaksafe lights up green and I presume the electric brakes are applied....can this be tested?.....when the pin is re-inserted all lights go off and I presume electric brakes are returned to normal.....with the new battery all working fine...and its ironic if I had tested before removing old battery it may well have been fully functional as well...and I did not really need to replace the battery at this stage....my misreading the signals cost $49....
I've gone into considerable detail detail not only to raise the question and others may identify with this.... but also to raise awareness of the monthly testing requirement of this important bit of gear.....something which is easy to let slip under the radar....
Hoo Roo
-- Edited by Goldfinger on Monday 6th of April 2015 12:04:10 PM
Hi Larry, sometimes it is hard to sort the wheat from the chaff information. I still do not know how my BS 6000 is charged. I have charged it from the red and black screw on terminal, BUT when removing the charger there is no voltage at those terminals. We have been touring for shortish (up to 10 days) trips since Jan 2014, and have had to learn a heck of a lot and received help on every topic from Cindy's forum here.
Worst part is I still do not know our van in every important detail. I am quite disabled now so I tend to ask first before I start pulling things apart to find out how things work. That was how I used to operated before my accident 7 years ago. I probably wrecked more than I fixed BUT I felt good about having a go!!!! My health does not allow me to doing things more than once, called energy management!!!
That accounts for my highish post count. 
Aussie Paul.
Maybe there is a series connected protection diode on the positive input?
I would use a multimeter to test for the presence of the diode, with the battery disconnected.
Do you have the three sheets of instructions that come with the unit? If not you can download any missing ones from here.
The instructions seem clear to me. You were trying to read the battery level by putting your meter across the input to the trickle charger:
Was the orange charge light on when you were charging the battery through the front panel terminals? Some chargers require a few volts at their output before they commence to charge. Find yourself a charger that will produce at least 12 V at its output when not connected to anything. Alternately you could try removing the house battery from its cradle and using that to see if you can get some charge into the battery.
The other thing to check is the "hot wire" connection from your tug to the Breaksafe unit. If need be you can stick pins through the black (positive) and white (earth) wires to check you have battery power from your tug when hooked up. If you get that working properly you can recharge your battery charged whilst you drive (if you drive for long enough.) Another alternative would be to get yourself a 12 V power brick with a 1 - 2 A output and use that to keep your battery in good nick.
As you can see, when you press the test button you put a considerable load (quite a few amps on a 7 Ah battery is a considerable load.) With that in mind pressing the test switch when the battery is down a little may not produce a green light. This does not mean the battery is stuffed, a battery with a rested voltage of 12.3 V most likely would not produce a charged indication on the test lights. It may just need recharging.
-- Edited by PeterD on Monday 6th of April 2015 03:26:52 PM
http://rvelectronics.com.au/image/data/BREAKSAFE%20SERIES%205000%20AND%205000XP%20OPERATING%20INTRUCTIONS.pdf
This may help.
The following fitting instructions would suggest that the positive charging terminal could be used as a sensing terminal for a remote monitor:
http://rvelectronics.com.au/image/data/BREAKSAFE%20REMOTE%20MONITOR%20FITTING%20INSTUCTIONS.pdf
This means that there cannot be a diode in the path. Instead I'm wondering if the charging input is separately fused, and if this fuse is open. However, this doesn't explain why an automatic charger cannot sense the battery voltage in a known working unit, as the OP's Internet research would suggest.
G'day Dorian, good to see you.
I notice that the documentation states that the battery can be charged by the vehicle's charging system via a black Auxiliary wire. I'm wondering how the two charging sources are isolated from each other, and this leads me to thinking about diodes again.
Cheers
I just had my first taste of breaksafe battery hassles today. My understanding is that the 6000 unit, which you and I both have, has its own charger in the box, Therefore it doesn't require an external charger like I believe earlier models did, but simply a 12 volt supply to the red and black terminals. Someone has suggested that the instruction sheet is a bit misleading on this point. It may be that the use of a charger on the 6000 won't work.
I'm still at the stage of charging my battery on the bench, so I can't offer information as fact, just a maybe.
Hi Kevin, a couple of days ago I double checked my 6000. It is charged by the tug through pin 2 when the tug is running, AND I charged it from my portable solar panel through the red and black terminal on the 6000.
Aussie Paul.