Have just been speaking to a couple who have bought a Demo Van and were told by the salesman that their car a commodore Holden would tow their 2 tonne van with no problems. As you may have guessed it didn't. On the way to Wallaroo the police pulled them over and told them their car was not suitable for the van. The police allowed them to go to their destination as it was not far from where they were but on arrival they were met by another police officer who told them he would not allow them to move the caravan with their present car ( Holden) so the couple were left having to buy another car to safely tow their caravan home. When they rang the dealer they denied telling them their car was suitable.
So anyone buying a van check that your car is suitable to tow the van and don't take a dealers word for it unless they are willing to put it in writing and even then I would be very wary. I don't take anyone's word for it when it come to my safety.
Granty said
05:35 PM Feb 24, 2015
I didn't think that dealers are allowed to let people pick up vans in an unsuitable vehicle. If so then the dealer is in the wrong.
chopit said
05:39 PM Feb 24, 2015
It is a cautionary tale,indeed.
Gotta love the industry. As I read somewhere recently the caravan industry has about the same level of morals as the used car industry in the 70s.
A fellow I know was a caravan salesman many moons ago and he often tells tales of his adventures.
His favorite was a guy looking at the biggest 'van on the lot. He asked what sort of car / tow vehicle the prospective buyer had.
Quick as a flash the answer came " A red one".
hako said
05:48 PM Feb 24, 2015
Once you sign an agreement to purchase a van and pay the money it is all your responsibility. Same with buying a car - who has been asked to show their license?
However the dealer was correct - a Commodore can tow up to 2100KG which the towbar compliance plate will show - plenty of towbars available for Commodores at that rating and I had one in my VS.
My guess is the Commodore only had a 1600kg towbar fitted.
Good Luck
Bruce and Bev said
08:22 PM Feb 24, 2015
I was talking to the owner of the Dealer that I bought my 'van through.
They are legally required to ask the prospective buyer what type of vehicle they intend to tow with and advise them if it is suitable (legally) or not. But as he pointed out, sale staff are commissioned and not many will ask that question. And of course they will lie in a situation like the one above - nothing was in writing. As Dizzy said - if your tow vehicle, including tow frame is legal, then theres no issue with them giving it in writing lol.
When I bought our van, we had an outstanding sales guy. We picked the van and one of the 1st questions he had was about out tow vehicle (in this case a 3.5T rated DMax with dealer fitted tow unit so it is compliant. As an aside, he also recommended we not buy a number of expensive extras we would have otherwise had fitted/installed by the Dealer. He also provides us all the after sales service (the numerous warranty claims) because we have fallen out of favour with their 2 service/warranty office ladies (and I use that term loosely - both service and ladies).
So there are some honest and decent sales people out there - just not many of them !!
Gerty Dancer said
08:10 AM Feb 25, 2015
We towed our van with a Prado, which has a 2.5 ton limit. While choosing a caravan, we were twice told at different dealerships that the Prado could tow a 3 ton van. One salesman was even rude, and called my partner "Foolishly pedantic" when he said "No, I only want a van weighing up to 2.2 tons". I think this bull**** is widespread.
Be very careful folks.
D and D said
05:00 PM Feb 25, 2015
I have no doubt that caravan salespeople, in the main, are more interested in the sale than providing good, effective and honest customer service but I'm curious about how the cops would know the weight of the van and they must be dedicated Commodore enthusiasts or caravaners if they also knew the towing capacity of a Commodore was less than that.
Regards
Dave
Long Weekend said
05:35 PM Feb 25, 2015
Perhaps the Commodore driver was pulled up purely on spec. I know that manual cars are limited to only 1600 kgs while an automatic is limited to 2,100 kgs. (Our automatic Falcon wagon is limited to 2,300 kgs.) After the car was pulled over the cop would simply look inside to see if it was manual or automatic.
I know this because our son in law had a manual Commodore Sports Wagon and he wanted to borrow our Jayco Freedom. On paper he was right on the limits as the empty weight of the Freedom is around 1,300 plus awning, plus annex, plus kitchen ware, etc. In the end he had to settle on using our Swan - which while within the towing range no doubt struggled a bit coming up Brown Mountain.
So that is another thing to consider when deciding on what van can be towed - is the car manual or automatic.
Murray
dlncooke said
07:52 PM Feb 25, 2015
Came across this before, Sale people will lie through their teeth to get a sale.
Then deny everything. pays to get it in writing.
Cheers
Dave.
rockylizard said
08:36 PM Feb 25, 2015
Gday...
I certainly concur with the need for the "salesman" to do the right thing and the comments made here ... but let's be a little bit realistic.
Surely there must be SOME consideration that the driver of a vehicle has SOME idea on what he can legally tow with that vehicle. Surely.
cheers - John
Goldfinger said
12:20 AM Feb 26, 2015
Not sure about the manual v automatic being accurate for all makes of vehicles...
The Mitsubishi Triton Dual Cab Diesel 2.5 Common Rail is detuned in the automatic version as the automatic box couldn't cope with the power...its the manual 5 speed that has the additional power...and is the one recommended for towing...Hoo Roo
johnq said
09:05 AM Feb 26, 2015
rockylizard wrote:
Gday...
I certainly concur with the need for the "salesman" to do the right thing and the comments made here ... but let's be a little bit realistic.
Surely there must be SOME consideration that the driver of a vehicle has SOME idea on what he can legally tow with that vehicle. Surely.
cheers - John
Hi John,
While I generally agree with that, the problem is that the uninitiated person doesn't know what he doesn't know.
To that could be added, "and the caravan maker and distributor both know and have a duty of care to duly and properly inform - at minimum to set down the considerations the unwitting, vulnerable buyer needs to take into account and perhaps get further advice on".
Most are aware that makers and sellers (government agencies too!) will take advantage wherever possible of the easy 'out' that they, 'Are not in the business of giving advice' (although they presume to do that where it suits their sales pitch) and will have to be dragged to do the right thing.
What concerns me is that as taxpayers we fork out millions for Standards and all sorts of government monitoring, but when it comes down to cases the government inspectors are toothless diplomats and it is all care and no responsibility for the builder (and seller).
From a different area of life but nonetheless relevant, consider the Hepatitis A that has been passed on in what the public believed (and were led to believe by government) was safe wholesome food (berries from China). Now the respective government agencies don't even think they should visit China to check the production. Doubtless their CEOs would want to travel to tourist stops like Paris instead for their 'inspections' and 'consultations'.
Bruce and Bev said
10:13 AM Feb 27, 2015
The regulations that apply to caravans and trailers (same thing mostly by the law) are a mish mash of rubbish which has been added to and tinkered with for years. Currently the CMA (not any govt dept) is looking at adopting the NZ law which will be introduced nationally here. The problems with our regulations is they often use the word "should" rather than "shall or will". This applies to towing chains and shackles for example.
I am in the process of increasing the ATM of my 6 mnth old van from 2680kg to 3000kg (they don't allow the weight of water in the ATM and 1 litre = 1 kg Im told). So fill your water tanks, gas bottles and maybe a genie and annexe and youre overweight.
A few days ago I phoned the WA Dept of Transport (DOT) for some info on the procedure to increase the ATM. Guess what............the guy told me he didn't know. When I told him they were the govt dept responsible for all this and should know - I then got told to make an appointment and take it into a testing station. There are only two govt ones in Perth and both are south Perth. That's a 2 hour drive for me.
I ended up phoning the van manufacturer, the chassis maker, the Dealer to get the info (the govt web site is so confusing) and then booking it into my local DOT agent
My van was inspected and registered in WA at a govt inspection station by the Dealer. When I take it in to get the ATM rating changed, I will have had to get new shackles as the ones that came with the van don't have their weight rating stamped on them.
Have just been speaking to a couple who have bought a Demo Van and were told by the salesman that their car a commodore Holden would tow their 2 tonne van with no problems. As you may have guessed it didn't. On the way to Wallaroo the police pulled them over and told them their car was not suitable for the van. The police allowed them to go to their destination as it was not far from where they were but on arrival they were met by another police officer who told them he would not allow them to move the caravan with their present car ( Holden) so the couple were left having to buy another car to safely tow their caravan home. When they rang the dealer they denied telling them their car was suitable.
So anyone buying a van check that your car is suitable to tow the van and don't take a dealers word for it unless they are willing to put it in writing and even then I would be very wary. I don't take anyone's word for it when it come to my safety.
Gotta love the industry. As I read somewhere recently the caravan industry has about the same level of morals as the used car industry in the 70s.
A fellow I know was a caravan salesman many moons ago and he often tells tales of his adventures.
His favorite was a guy looking at the biggest 'van on the lot. He asked what sort of car / tow vehicle the prospective buyer had.
Quick as a flash the answer came " A red one".
However the dealer was correct - a Commodore can tow up to 2100KG which the towbar compliance plate will show - plenty of towbars available for Commodores at that rating and I had one in my VS.
My guess is the Commodore only had a 1600kg towbar fitted.
Good Luck
They are legally required to ask the prospective buyer what type of vehicle they intend to tow with and advise them if it is suitable (legally) or not. But as he pointed out, sale staff are commissioned and not many will ask that question. And of course they will lie in a situation like the one above - nothing was in writing. As Dizzy said - if your tow vehicle, including tow frame is legal, then theres no issue with them giving it in writing lol.
When I bought our van, we had an outstanding sales guy. We picked the van and one of the 1st questions he had was about out tow vehicle (in this case a 3.5T rated DMax with dealer fitted tow unit so it is compliant. As an aside, he also recommended we not buy a number of expensive extras we would have otherwise had fitted/installed by the Dealer. He also provides us all the after sales service (the numerous warranty claims) because we have fallen out of favour with their 2 service/warranty office ladies (and I use that term loosely - both service and ladies).
So there are some honest and decent sales people out there - just not many of them !!
Be very careful folks.
Regards
Dave
I know this because our son in law had a manual Commodore Sports Wagon and he wanted to borrow our Jayco Freedom. On paper he was right on the limits as the empty weight of the Freedom is around 1,300 plus awning, plus annex, plus kitchen ware, etc. In the end he had to settle on using our Swan - which while within the towing range no doubt struggled a bit coming up Brown Mountain.
So that is another thing to consider when deciding on what van can be towed - is the car manual or automatic.
Murray
Came across this before, Sale people will lie through their teeth to get a sale.
Then deny everything. pays to get it in writing.
Cheers
Dave.
Gday...
I certainly concur with the need for the "salesman" to do the right thing and the comments made here ... but let's be a little bit realistic.
Surely there must be SOME consideration that the driver of a vehicle has SOME idea on what he can legally tow with that vehicle. Surely.
cheers - John
The Mitsubishi Triton Dual Cab Diesel 2.5 Common Rail is detuned in the automatic version as the automatic box couldn't cope with the power...its the manual 5 speed that has the additional power...and is the one recommended for towing...Hoo Roo
Hi John,
While I generally agree with that, the problem is that the uninitiated person doesn't know what he doesn't know.
To that could be added, "and the caravan maker and distributor both know and have a duty of care to duly and properly inform - at minimum to set down the considerations the unwitting, vulnerable buyer needs to take into account and perhaps get further advice on".
Most are aware that makers and sellers (government agencies too!) will take advantage wherever possible of the easy 'out' that they, 'Are not in the business of giving advice' (although they presume to do that where it suits their sales pitch) and will have to be dragged to do the right thing.
What concerns me is that as taxpayers we fork out millions for Standards and all sorts of government monitoring, but when it comes down to cases the government inspectors are toothless diplomats and it is all care and no responsibility for the builder (and seller).
From a different area of life but nonetheless relevant, consider the Hepatitis A that has been passed on in what the public believed (and were led to believe by government) was safe wholesome food (berries from China). Now the respective government agencies don't even think they should visit China to check the production. Doubtless their CEOs would want to travel to tourist stops like Paris instead for their 'inspections' and 'consultations'.
I am in the process of increasing the ATM of my 6 mnth old van from 2680kg to 3000kg (they don't allow the weight of water in the ATM and 1 litre = 1 kg Im told). So fill your water tanks, gas bottles and maybe a genie and annexe and youre overweight.
A few days ago I phoned the WA Dept of Transport (DOT) for some info on the procedure to increase the ATM. Guess what............the guy told me he didn't know. When I told him they were the govt dept responsible for all this and should know - I then got told to make an appointment and take it into a testing station. There are only two govt ones in Perth and both are south Perth. That's a 2 hour drive for me.
I ended up phoning the van manufacturer, the chassis maker, the Dealer to get the info (the govt web site is so confusing) and then booking it into my local DOT agent
My van was inspected and registered in WA at a govt inspection station by the Dealer. When I take it in to get the ATM rating changed, I will have had to get new shackles as the ones that came with the van don't have their weight rating stamped on them.