Hi, just searched tow ball weight in old forums. It has been asked if you loaded your van heavier than the vans compliance tow ball weight but about 10% of gross weight but less than the tugs weight would it be legal ? One reply said yes .
My question is, is this right ?
I've been told if your van is over weight, be tow ball, gross or whatever that is on the vans compliance plate it is illegal and all insurance is voided, EVEN if it is under the tugs capability, is this right ?
I was of the understanding that the 10% load on the tow ball was a guide only, but still had to be under the compliance stated weight, is that right ? ( and I know in some vans this means you can't put anything in the front boot)
So I thought to be legal and insurable you have to be within BOTH TUGS AND VANS COMLIACE SPECIFICATIONS not just one or the other ?
Appreciate your input ...Len.
KFT said
11:57 AM Feb 1, 2015
As I understand it if your van is legal all up weight(ATM) and gross weight (GTM-Axles) is also legal then the ball weight can be whatever it is but must not exceed the tugs legal ball weight download capacity.
mine is 300kg max and my vans ball weight is around 250kg so I am ok.
The ball weight usually given on the vans compliance plate should be the ball mass at Tare weight(empty)
frank
-- Edited by KFT on Sunday 1st of February 2015 11:58:02 AM
Radar said
01:13 PM Feb 1, 2015
Hi Stl, could you post a photo of your caravans details and the tow vehicle details so we can understand them completely.
I think at this stage I agree with the bottom line.
PeterD said
06:46 PM Feb 1, 2015
Stl wrote:I've been told if your van is over weight, be tow ball, gross or whatever that is on the vans compliance plate it is illegal and all insurance is voided, EVEN if it is under the tugs capability, is this right ?
There are no assessors around to check the weights until several days after the accident. By that time all continuity of evidence has vanished so it is hard for them to prove you were overloaded. I am also yet to hear of the police checking weights after the fact. If you do a good enough job of the accident there is there is little chance of them weighing it anyway.
The main problem of overloading and being caught is if and when the authorities commence roadside spot checks of travelling vans.
Fiery said
07:20 PM Feb 1, 2015
Hi Firstly I agree with KFT!
My understanding of your ball weight on your compliance plate is the minimum weight your ball weight will be and weighed by the manufacture, often before gas bottles are filled and extras put on by dealers. Your ball must be less than your tugs' stated ball weight to be legal. I feel ball weight is very misunderstood and you need to dig deep to find the right answers. I tow a 22' Crusader with a stated ball weight of 230kgs and my tug is 300kg so I need to be very carefull how much trash & treasure I put in the front hatch and in the front through hatch.
justcruisin01 said
07:38 PM Feb 1, 2015
PeterD wrote:
The main problem of overloading and being caught is if and when the authorities commence roadside spot checks of travelling vans.
So you dont believe that van weights have been spot checked in the past ???
There has been many reports of this activity over the past couple of yrs.
Only a couple of weeks I reported a tri axle van parked just outside the exit lane of a inspection point, I saw it go past camp the arvo before behind a Navara & I thought he would be pushing the boundry.
No proof thats what it was but would make me think that way.
Yet again I will remind all that I have been weighed 2 1/2 yrs back at a road side check point.
Your choice.
JC.
Stl said
07:51 PM Feb 1, 2015
Hi Frank and Radar, thanks for the input,if I may I will address your replys seperate, Frank what you are saying is what the general opinion is but why have a tow ball weight on the vans compliance plate at all, eg if I towed my van with a truck that had a tow ball weight towing of say two tonne ball weight I could then put up to two tonne so long as it's less than the ATM even if the compliance might say 250 kg ?
Hi Radar ,
justcruisin01 said
07:55 PM Feb 1, 2015
Stl wrote:
Hi Frank and Radar, thanks for the input,if I may I will address your replys seperate, Frank what you are saying is what the general opinion is but why have a tow ball weight on the vans compliance plate at all, eg if I towed my van with a truck that had a tow ball weight towing of say two tonne ball weight I could then put up to two tonne so long as it's less than the ATM even if the compliance might say 250 kg ? Hi Radar ,
Its protection for the A-Frame to load evenly.
Dont know the legal requirements but Thinking in a common sense method van builders try for a 10% of the tare for a ball weight. That being so then take a pay load of 400kg for the average tandem van, spread evenly to give a 10% of that on the ball being 40kg, but remember you already have 18kg of gas on the A-frame so really only another 22 kg of load for the A-frame.
-- Edited by justcruisin01 on Sunday 1st of February 2015 08:25:58 PM
Stl said
08:17 PM Feb 1, 2015
Whoops Hi Rada, pressed the send button by mistake, towing with a BT 50. Tow ball weight 335 kg towing 3350 kg
Van Concept tow ball 296kg. ATM 2686kg . Will try and post compliance plate photo with a sticker above it saying 30 kg only in boot.. The van when loaded ( no water in tanks) with a deep cycle battery ONLY in the boot and two 9 kg bottles on the A frame ,tow ball weight came in at 315 kg.
The question is does any one KNOW if it's legal too be over on your vans tow ball weight but still under the tugs tow ball weight ?
Len 😃
Stl said
08:23 PM Feb 1, 2015
Hi Guru, I agree , definitely protection for the A frame and warranty, - insurance- but is it illegal to be over ?
Len 😃
Radar said
09:44 PM Feb 1, 2015
Stl.
No I do not know. End of answer.
Rule of thumb.
Lowest number wins. Your vehicle may be legal with total of this but the lowest number given by either party is the one accepted.
In other words if A is higher then B, A wins end of discussion.
KFT said
09:51 PM Feb 1, 2015
Len there is no stated maximum for your ball weight but obviously you need to try and keep it around 10% of the ATM but still keep it just under your towbar max ball allowance. As others have said the number on your plate is the ball weight when van is empty it is not the max ball weight allowed.
you may well find that if you load your van to max gross weight your ball weight will be up near max for your towbar as well.
frank
-- Edited by KFT on Sunday 1st of February 2015 09:52:30 PM
Fiery said
09:58 PM Feb 1, 2015
Hi all, I have pasted the advice on ball weight legalities as stated on the RACQ web site. (If you GOOGLE ball weight and tow ball weight you find several sites to this subject.) Ball Load is the amount of weight the fully laden trailer imposes (vertically) on the tow bar of the tow vehicle. Trailer Ball Load is not a specification defined by the trailer manufacturer â it is the actual weight imposed on the rear of the tow vehicle and as such is a function of the trailerâs axle position and the manner in which it is loaded.
While there is no requirement to list a trailerâs Ball Load, it can be measured at a weighbridge by disconnecting the fully laden trailer from the tow vehicle and resting only the trailerâs draw bar (via the jockey wheel) on the scales. Alternatively, some caravan dealers have special ball mass scales for this purpose.
Ball Load is not usually a critical issue with small trailers unless the tow vehicle has a low Ball Load specification, as is the case with many small cars and some European vehicles. However, heavy trailers such as horse floats and caravans often impose quite high Ball Loads on the tow vehicle.
For caravans itâs important to load the van in the same manner every time once the correct Ball Load is established, as changes in loading patterns can have a dramatic effect. Loads should never be arranged behind a trailerâs axle in an attempt to counter excessive Ball Load. This can be very destabilising and potentially dangerous. Itâs important to realise that like other specifications, the maximum tow ball load must not be exceeded.
mr glassies said
12:00 PM Feb 15, 2015
or you could buy a jockey wheel scale about $60 .then if you did get weighed you can say you tried .
i got one simple to use
Hi, just searched tow ball weight in old forums. It has been asked if you loaded your van heavier than the vans compliance tow ball weight but about 10% of gross weight but less than the tugs weight would it be legal ? One reply said yes .
My question is, is this right ?
I've been told if your van is over weight, be tow ball, gross or whatever that is on the vans compliance plate it is illegal and all insurance is voided, EVEN if it is under the tugs capability, is this right ?
I was of the understanding that the 10% load on the tow ball was a guide only, but still had to be under the compliance stated weight, is that right ? ( and I know in some vans this means you can't put anything in the front boot)
So I thought to be legal and insurable you have to be within BOTH TUGS AND VANS COMLIACE SPECIFICATIONS not just one or the other ?
Appreciate your input ...Len.
As I understand it if your van is legal all up weight(ATM) and gross weight (GTM-Axles) is also legal then the ball weight can be whatever it is but must not exceed the tugs legal ball weight download capacity.
mine is 300kg max and my vans ball weight is around 250kg so I am ok.
The ball weight usually given on the vans compliance plate should be the ball mass at Tare weight(empty)
frank
-- Edited by KFT on Sunday 1st of February 2015 11:58:02 AM
Hi Stl, could you post a photo of your caravans details and the tow vehicle details so we can understand them completely.
I think at this stage I agree with the bottom line.
There are no assessors around to check the weights until several days after the accident. By that time all continuity of evidence has vanished so it is hard for them to prove you were overloaded. I am also yet to hear of the police checking weights after the fact. If you do a good enough job of the accident there is there is little chance of them weighing it anyway.
The main problem of overloading and being caught is if and when the authorities commence roadside spot checks of travelling vans.
So you dont believe that van weights have been spot checked in the past ???
There has been many reports of this activity over the past couple of yrs.
Only a couple of weeks I reported a tri axle van parked just outside the exit lane of a inspection point, I saw it go past camp the arvo before behind a Navara & I thought he would be pushing the boundry.
No proof thats what it was but would make me think that way.
Yet again I will remind all that I have been weighed 2 1/2 yrs back at a road side check point.
Your choice.
JC.
Hi Radar ,
Its protection for the A-Frame to load evenly.
Dont know the legal requirements but Thinking in a common sense method van builders try for a 10% of the tare for a ball weight. That being so then take a pay load of 400kg for the average tandem van, spread evenly to give a 10% of that on the ball being 40kg, but remember you already have 18kg of gas on the A-frame so really only another 22 kg of load for the A-frame.
-- Edited by justcruisin01 on Sunday 1st of February 2015 08:25:58 PM
Van Concept tow ball 296kg. ATM 2686kg . Will try and post compliance plate photo with a sticker above it saying 30 kg only in boot.. The van when loaded ( no water in tanks) with a deep cycle battery ONLY in the boot and two 9 kg bottles on the A frame ,tow ball weight came in at 315 kg.
The question is does any one KNOW if it's legal too be over on your vans tow ball weight but still under the tugs tow ball weight ?
Len 😃
Len 😃
Stl.
No I do not know. End of answer.
Rule of thumb.
Lowest number wins. Your vehicle may be legal with total of this but the lowest number given by either party is the one accepted.
In other words if A is higher then B, A wins end of discussion.
Len there is no stated maximum for your ball weight but obviously you need to try and keep it around 10% of the ATM but still keep it just under your towbar max ball allowance. As others have said the number on your plate is the ball weight when van is empty it is not the max ball weight allowed.
you may well find that if you load your van to max gross weight your ball weight will be up near max for your towbar as well.
frank
-- Edited by KFT on Sunday 1st of February 2015 09:52:30 PM
i got one simple to use
dibs