Hello gang. What a terrific forum this is. A little while back I asked re a problem with sway bars being too low and hitting driveways into fuel stations, caravan parks etc. Received very good advice. Went with replacing the tow vehicle (a 2010 G6E Falcon sedan) rear coil springs with stronger coil springs as opposed to air bags within the existing springs. Now I read in a reputable caravan magazine (don't know if allowed to name it) that in replacing springs with stronger ones, there may be a need to replace the shock absorbers too. No-one (mechanics, suppliers, the helpful people on this forum) mentioned that at the time. I have taken the car and van for a "dry run" with the van empty around my area and there seemed no problem. As always, the van towed like a beauty. Am I likely to have a problem now with the new stronger springs? Thank you in anticipation. Like many others on here, everyday I learn how little I know.
-- Edited by Kev Pearce on Saturday 24th of January 2015 05:57:23 PM
chopit said
06:18 PM Jan 24, 2015
We replaced the rear coil springs on our C/dore ute with stronger ( read longer ) springs for towing.
We replaced the shocks as well.
One reason was that the existing shocks had a maximum extension length.
With the longer springs it made it possible to stretch the standard shocks to their maximum travel.
We usually think of springs etc as a compression device but under certain conditions they can be stretched as well.
Your shocks may extend within the springs travel but if in doubt, have a talk to a suspension specialist. Peddars maybe.
Cheers.
exa41 said
06:53 PM Jan 24, 2015
Hi Kev , chopit is wright , depends on the spring travel as well as the bump and rebound rate of the shock , you probably haven't gone more than 5 to 10% heavier in springs anyway but it may be worth the time doing a little research with Pedders , SG Leslie or a local shock builder near you but stick to a gas shock as they are a little more stable when working hard , the gas shocks don't suffer from foaming like an oil shock does because of the heat generated and loose their effectiveness . where are you located ?.
-- Edited by exa41 on Saturday 24th of January 2015 06:55:06 PM
Friar Park said
09:03 PM Jan 24, 2015
Hi Kev, I agree with Chopit and Exa41. I have an ED Falcon wagon. The rear spings have had an additional leaf added,and new shockies were put on at the same type all done on theadvice and after an inspection by Peddars. The car is 21 years old and still gives a comfortable ride.
Friar
Snail said
09:52 PM Jan 24, 2015
Hi Friar,
If your new springs are harder but you have the same ride height with no load in your car the new springs will have a shorter free length than the originals. A longer shock may allow your axle to drop to far and the springs could fall out. Heavy spring cause the shocks to work harder so there is a chance of overheating and the shocks become useless. So yes for new shocks but be careful of the length.
hako said
11:21 PM Jan 24, 2015
Think realistically - if you have fitted stiffer springs which are standard length then there will be no problem. On the Falcon, the shock absorber limits the travel of the spring - it's designed to do that, and they are gas filled - the factory fitted shock absorber will be the correct length. Stiffer springs will result in LESS work for the shock absorber because being stiffer they resist movement....therefore they move less so they do less work.
If it's handling the van better than before why spend more money to achieve basically nothing. I'd also add that if you take the car to someone like Peddars, of course they will say you need new shockers. Google "Peddars problems" to find why.
Good Luck.
Kev Pearce said
11:35 AM Jan 25, 2015
Thank you everyone. Everywhere I went inquiring re my concerns that the sway bars hit on driveways etc said to add supplementary springs or stronger springs but everyone said to replace coil springs with coil springs EXCEPT Pedders who were big on air springs. My mechanic did not like that idea. So, after years of dealing with him, I went his way. As I said, no-one ever mentioned the shocks. I will return to the mechanic after tomorrow's public holiday and have a chat to him.
I should have also asked a supplementary question of you people. Having fitted the new springs, the rear of the car is slightly and I mean slightly higher than previously. I noticed when hitching the van for my "dry" run that I needed to shorten by two links the chain attaching the sway bars to the van (ie compared with the original springs), otherwise they seemed too loose. Is this ok?
Snail said
12:07 PM Jan 25, 2015
Hi Kev,
The shock controls the speed of the spring, its job is to return the spring to its normal state in a minimal amount of time. Sometimes standard shocks damping rate are too soft to handle heavy springs and cannot control the oscillations (up and down). If your car is sitting higher unloaded it sounds like the springs are standard length. Do a trip with your van with the standard shocks and see how you go.
Sorry Friar my last post was for Kev. wrong name.
Snail
Kev Pearce said
12:13 PM Jan 25, 2015
Thanks snail. I know it could be said why didn't I ask my mechanic rather than get on this forum, but I only read the article saturday when mechanic closed; but really, these forums are so good with so much information from experience that I really enjoy reading the various forums. Will do as you say Snail, we are going for a trip soon and will see how it goes. The van has always pulled brilliantly so hope the replaced springs will just hold the rear/hitch high enough to avoid scraping those driveways. Thanks to all. Will keep reading to see if any more replies. Thanks again.
chopit said
01:05 PM Jan 25, 2015
Regarding air bag suspension, horses for courses,I guess.
I put air bags on my last trike. Absolutely brilliant. You can vary the ride by adjusting the air pressure.
That is the best feature,I reckon.
deverall11 said
01:11 PM Jan 25, 2015
We've got airbags on the Landcruiser. I put them up when towing and release them when not towing. This way it deals with the extra weight when needed and returns to a supple ride when not towing. Best of both world.
Larry
Radar said
02:06 PM Jan 25, 2015
Kev hi.
Reading what you have done sounds practical, stiffen the rear up a bit to help carry your load.
Down the track you might like to improve the ride a bit more for touring replace them with better quality then standard eg Koni shocks or medium price ones like go old but new Monroe, what ever you choice it will be good guess that they will be better then standard.
Little bit of attention to the front is always a bonus. Ralph
03_Troopy said
09:18 AM Jan 26, 2015
Snail wrote:
Hi Kev,
The shock controls the speed of the spring, its job is to return the spring to its normal state in a minimal amount of time. Sometimes standard shocks damping rate are too soft to handle heavy springs and cannot control the oscillations (up and down). If your car is sitting higher unloaded it sounds like the springs are standard length. Do a trip with your van with the standard shocks and see how you go.
Sorry Friar my last post was for Kev. wrong name.
Snail
Exactly, the springs are actually the shock absorbers, the shockies are spring dampers.
KevinC said
10:48 AM Jan 26, 2015
I'm thinking that you should only upgrade your shockers if you need to. I remember putting harder shockers on one of my cars (seemed like a good idea at the time.) After it shook the fillings out of my teeth I realized that one can take suspension upgrades too far. New springs will give you height (shockers can't), new springs will increase load carrying capacity (shockers can't), but shockers can easily destroy comfortable ride. It's a compromise, so hasten slowly.
I hope your suspension people steer you well.
Kev Pearce said
03:48 PM Jan 26, 2015
Thanks Kevin C and 03 Troopy. You are all wonderful
Aus-Kiwi said
09:34 PM Jan 26, 2015
Its not totally that simple..
You require the right resistance to limit spring re-bound..
Just fitting longer springs may work?
BUT in most cases longer springs are heavier also..
One thing to consider is bump stop or total suspension travel..
Springs or bump stops MUST limit travel before shock travel..
When I posted some time back I'm sure I would have said
stronger spring package from Peders etc..
Your better off slightly over shocked unless you want the American bounce / ride..
Stiff shocks can limit bump travel.. As said don't go too far..
Its a balance between shock and spring..
Hello gang. What a terrific forum this is. A little while back I asked re a problem with sway bars being too low and hitting driveways into fuel stations, caravan parks etc. Received very good advice. Went with replacing the tow vehicle (a 2010 G6E Falcon sedan) rear coil springs with stronger coil springs as opposed to air bags within the existing springs. Now I read in a reputable caravan magazine (don't know if allowed to name it) that in replacing springs with stronger ones, there may be a need to replace the shock absorbers too. No-one (mechanics, suppliers, the helpful people on this forum) mentioned that at the time. I have taken the car and van for a "dry run" with the van empty around my area and there seemed no problem. As always, the van towed like a beauty. Am I likely to have a problem now with the new stronger springs? Thank you in anticipation. Like many others on here, everyday I learn how little I know.
-- Edited by Kev Pearce on Saturday 24th of January 2015 05:57:23 PM
We replaced the shocks as well.
One reason was that the existing shocks had a maximum extension length.
With the longer springs it made it possible to stretch the standard shocks to their maximum travel.
We usually think of springs etc as a compression device but under certain conditions they can be stretched as well.
Your shocks may extend within the springs travel but if in doubt, have a talk to a suspension specialist. Peddars maybe.
Cheers.
Hi Kev , chopit is wright , depends on the spring travel as well as the bump and rebound rate of the shock , you probably haven't gone more than 5 to 10% heavier in springs anyway but it may be worth the time doing a little research with Pedders , SG Leslie or a local shock builder near you but stick to a gas shock as they are a little more stable when working hard , the gas shocks don't suffer from foaming like an oil shock does because of the heat generated and loose their effectiveness . where are you located ?.
-- Edited by exa41 on Saturday 24th of January 2015 06:55:06 PM
Hi Kev, I agree with Chopit and Exa41. I have an ED Falcon wagon. The rear spings have had an additional leaf added,and new shockies were put on at the same type all done on theadvice and after an inspection by Peddars. The car is 21 years old and still gives a comfortable ride.
Friar
Hi Friar,
If your new springs are harder but you have the same ride height with no load in your car the new springs will have a shorter free length than the originals. A longer shock may allow your axle to drop to far and the springs could fall out. Heavy spring cause the shocks to work harder so there is a chance of overheating and the shocks become useless. So yes for new shocks but be careful of the length.
If it's handling the van better than before why spend more money to achieve basically nothing. I'd also add that if you take the car to someone like Peddars, of course they will say you need new shockers. Google "Peddars problems" to find why.
Good Luck.
Thank you everyone. Everywhere I went inquiring re my concerns that the sway bars hit on driveways etc said to add supplementary springs or stronger springs but everyone said to replace coil springs with coil springs EXCEPT Pedders who were big on air springs. My mechanic did not like that idea. So, after years of dealing with him, I went his way. As I said, no-one ever mentioned the shocks. I will return to the mechanic after tomorrow's public holiday and have a chat to him.
I should have also asked a supplementary question of you people. Having fitted the new springs, the rear of the car is slightly and I mean slightly higher than previously. I noticed when hitching the van for my "dry" run that I needed to shorten by two links the chain attaching the sway bars to the van (ie compared with the original springs), otherwise they seemed too loose. Is this ok?
Hi Kev,
The shock controls the speed of the spring, its job is to return the spring to its normal state in a minimal amount of time. Sometimes standard shocks damping rate are too soft to handle heavy springs and cannot control the oscillations (up and down). If your car is sitting higher unloaded it sounds like the springs are standard length. Do a trip with your van with the standard shocks and see how you go.
Sorry Friar my last post was for Kev. wrong name.
Snail
Thanks snail. I know it could be said why didn't I ask my mechanic rather than get on this forum, but I only read the article saturday when mechanic closed; but really, these forums are so good with so much information from experience that I really enjoy reading the various forums. Will do as you say Snail, we are going for a trip soon and will see how it goes. The van has always pulled brilliantly so hope the replaced springs will just hold the rear/hitch high enough to avoid scraping those driveways. Thanks to all. Will keep reading to see if any more replies. Thanks again.
I put air bags on my last trike. Absolutely brilliant. You can vary the ride by adjusting the air pressure.
That is the best feature,I reckon.
Larry
Kev hi.
Reading what you have done sounds practical, stiffen the rear up a bit to help carry your load.
Down the track you might like to improve the ride a bit more for touring replace them with better quality then standard eg Koni shocks or medium price ones like go old but new Monroe, what ever you choice it will be good guess that they will be better then standard.
Little bit of attention to the front is always a bonus. Ralph
Exactly, the springs are actually the shock absorbers, the shockies are spring dampers.
I hope your suspension people steer you well.
Thanks Kevin C and 03 Troopy. You are all wonderful
You require the right resistance to limit spring re-bound..
Just fitting longer springs may work?
BUT in most cases longer springs are heavier also..
One thing to consider is bump stop or total suspension travel..
Springs or bump stops MUST limit travel before shock travel..
When I posted some time back I'm sure I would have said
stronger spring package from Peders etc..
Your better off slightly over shocked unless you want the American bounce / ride..
Stiff shocks can limit bump travel.. As said don't go too far..
Its a balance between shock and spring..