I'm going to toss this in the ring and see what happens?
Pondering over the design of our new van, I have almost come to the conclusion that recliner chairs just won't fit i.e. you can't from a practical sense fully recline (and go to sleep) in them. But I want more room.
Our Jayco Swan camper trailer had a full annex, that gave us another room outside, where one could get out the camper chairs and lay right back. That annex was made up of struts and poles.
Most vans come with a roll out awning, I see campers religiously stowing them away each night if wind is forecast.
So if I was to go for an 18ft van, for example, and get an annex made to increase living space, now bear in mind that once erected it would stay up regardless of forecast winds (not cyclones of course), can the roll out awning with attached walls cope, or is the purpose built annex with poles and guy ropes a stronger option.
Before people start ranting about what winds they've been in, I have been in some very high winds, where I have had to dyna-bolt the poles to the pad. I have been totally smashed, and so know about wind.
The question is whether the roll out awning is suitable to use as an annex set up, or is pole and strut set up a stronger and better option, even though it may take longer to put up.
2weis said
09:33 AM Jan 24, 2015
most roll out awnings become pole and strut to some extent when you detach the bottom of the legs from the van and stake them to the ground
you then only have to worry about the roof and whether it flaps too much which is controlled by the awning bars
I think most caravan parks would object to dyna bolts in their pads and most of the areas around the pads are normally soft so grip is difficult for stakes
what you want to do can be done but it can be a big chore at times and may not be possible some times
brian
Treecrest14 said
10:14 AM Jan 24, 2015
We had Coast to Coast walls for our 16ft van, and no major problem (i think it was a 14ft setup). The larger the awning then you would need to have awning bars. We decided on the walls as we didn't want to carry poles and ropes etc, but be aware that this option is not water proof as rain can come in via the ends.
Glen
iana said
10:32 AM Jan 24, 2015
One of the problems that I see may occur is water pooling on the roof. The awning-annex I had, had a central roof pole which would help, but water would still pool. This leads to a huge increase of weight and then collapse. A 14 ft awning with out one or two extra roof supports is a fair span.
deverall11 said
11:35 AM Jan 24, 2015
You'll find that if your annex and awning are properly installed when deployed, wind is much less of an issue as an awning by itself. With a lone awning, wind will get underneath and lift it. When you have an annex, this cannot/is less likely to happen. You can always throw a rope or a strap over the top of the awning and secure it to the ground.
Larry
PeterD said
12:45 PM Jan 24, 2015
Ian, if you go to the bottom of this page you will see the Aussie Traveller Coolibah awning with walls. I have just the awning and a couple of walls. It has stood several big blows where others with roll out awnings had wound theirs in. A mate had one with full annex walls that lasted a good blow at Ballina where all around him was in tatters.
If you go to the bottom of this page you will see a video of the Coolibah on one of your type camper trailers.
KFT said
01:06 PM Jan 24, 2015
iana wrote:
One of the problems that I see may occur is water pooling on the roof. The awning-annex I had, had a central roof pole which would help, but water would still pool. This leads to a huge increase of weight and then collapse. A 14 ft awning with out one or two extra roof supports is a fair span.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We use curved roof rafters that will help to prevent this happening. We also set the annexe/awning up with one end a couple of holes lower than the other end so water will run off. This has worked well for us in some very heavy downpours.
We always use our awning strap which is 50mm wide and goes over the whole awning to hold it down.
frank
iana said
04:08 PM Jan 24, 2015
I must have a different screen, however I checked out the "Aussie Traveller Coolibah" web site. That camper trailer would have been very similar, and I rechon he took longer to put it up than the time I took to put up mine. However it has occurred to me that I have asked an unfair question. In as much that 90% or more of you would have purchased the van and guess what the awning comes as standard inclusion. This means that what ever you do, adding an annex is a modification of the existing awing. Where as, I am talking about a full purpose built annex as opposed to an awning modified to except walls. Therefore the majority of you will have no experience in comparing the two. I have to apologize, I am sorry that I dare to question everything the salesman throws at me, I've done it on solar panels, Digital TV, and will continue to question until I am satisfied. So I'm sorry that I am being different. PS I used to work out the back of a shop, and used to get a kick out of asking the sales guys "How do you tell if a salesman is lying -- answer his lips are moving"
deverall11 I agree with what you saying. An awning is no different to a sail.
As you can see, my extra room was very similar to the video clip. But it was purpose built.KFT you are telling me "pooling" can occur, and what steps you have taken to reduce the risk.
-- Edited by iana on Saturday 24th of January 2015 04:09:32 PM
HI
Just be aware that you canot have a fully enclosed annexe over the 3way fridge flue vent .
ie annexe on the same side as the 3way fridge
PeterQ
KFT said
04:57 PM Jan 24, 2015
Iana,
pooling can happen with any of them if not set up to allow water to run straight off. Either by additional support as in the curved rafters or setting it up with a slope to one end (in the case of an awning)
If your setup will be like the picture you posted I don't think you will have an issue looking at the fall on the roof of that annexe.
frank
SnowT said
10:15 PM Jan 24, 2015
I don't know what your issue with an Awning is...
-- Depending on the brand of Awning's.. the Best way to see if your going to have issues is to check out the SPARE's list of the awning...
Regarding the issue of leaving in or out... As long as you have the awning securely fixed that is not an issue..
Re - the Issue of water... Look at the angle that most People have their awning at... if Flat, yes you can have issues.. or angle them more and forgo any issues...
the Roof rafters are a very good idea.. so is the use of Pool Noodles to stop the Awning from Flapping and getting scuffed on the roof rafter...
How about getting some answer's from the People that camp up for longer periods of time... They put more of an effort to overcome all these issue's..
Juergen
iana said
09:26 AM Jan 25, 2015
For the benefit of those who didn't read my original question here it is again:-
So if I was to go for an 18ft van, for example, and get an annex made to increase living space, now bear in mind that once erected it would stay up regardless of forecast winds (not cyclones of course), can the roll out awning with attached walls cope, or is the purpose built annex with poles and guy ropes a stronger option.
The question is whether the roll out awning is suitable to use as an annex set up, or is pole and strut set up a stronger and better option, even though it may take longer to put up.
I don't recall saying I had an issue with the awning, my question was about the annex.
-- Edited by iana on Sunday 25th of January 2015 12:36:35 PM
Peterpan said
03:56 PM Jan 25, 2015
Some time back we stayed at Sheepyard Flats out from Mansfield.
We pulled out the awning and attached the annex walls and made sure
that everything was pegged down securely, zipped the zips to secure the ends to the side wall.
Lovely sunny day then suddenly black and huge deposit of hail. Looked like a snow storm had struck.
Apart from some hail sitting on the roof 'cos the slope of the roof wasn't deep enough,there was no damage
done to the annex or awning. Melting hail stones created pockets of water everywhere making mud.
The storm put all the fires out,smoke and steam blanketed the area,some tents were flooded.
Sunshine the next day and every thing dried out beautifully.
I think that if you set it all up properly you shouldn't have any problems.
robo24 said
04:04 PM Jan 25, 2015
Hi.Iana.We have a 26ft(CABIN SIZE) 30ft overall Spaceland caravan.It has a roll out awning.On passing through Ballina we had Undercover Canvass make a full annex.Staying in Bungendore N.S.W. for 3 months of wet and very windy weather we hand little trouble.Firstly we fitted 4 curved rafters PLUS 4 roll bar foam tubes (from masters hardware)to fit onto the rafter at the awning roll end.WWe then threw a rope over the awning end to end.With the awning legs out vertical and pinned,plus guy ropes,no worries.It may sound like a lot of effort,but once you have done it once it becomes a doddle.No pooling.However, we did use waterproof cloth tape at the top corners where annex wall met van side.Hope this answers your question.
iana said
10:20 AM Jan 26, 2015
Thanks Peterpan and robo24, that pretty well sums it up. I watched a video on U-tube of a couple putting up an awning then attaching walls to it. It looked quite an effort to put up, apart from the cost of all the bits needed to secure and waterproof the whole unit.
Still I never got any input from anyone with a purpose built annex. But by going back to looking at the bigger van, then an awning is pretty much all I'll need.
The camper trailer has been sold months ago, but the annex was a handy extra room while we had it.
KevinC said
11:01 AM Jan 26, 2015
We had wind at Corrimal last week. I thought I was going to lose my awning but managed to get it in without damage. I have guy ropes on the ends but the movement was scary. The bloke two sites down had a similar awning with an annexe and while the walls billowed in and out as the wind swirled, there was no problem. The wind couldn't get under the roof. The roll out awning is good to build an annexe under, but make sure it's sealed and you use guy ropes and long pegs.
PS We used to carry an annexe for use on long stays, then we got a bigger van and don't need one.
-- Edited by KevinC on Monday 26th of January 2015 11:02:33 AM
jules47 said
11:20 AM Jan 26, 2015
When pegging your awning down - the longer you can go into the ground the better - we are camped near a lake and there is wind nearly every day, not too bad, but enough. Our awning does not move, we have a double rope and a single rope on each end and the ropes are attached to some long bolts, with washers on the ends to prevent them slipping through. These bolts are drilled it with a drill, and taken out the same way. We have been in some pretty high winds, and the awning does not move at all, we use anti flappers as well. Anywhere you have to peg something down, these bolts are the way to go - will put a picture of the bolts - they are 250mm long.
-- Edited by jules47 on Monday 26th of January 2015 11:21:12 AM
From my experience, and we lived in that camper-trailer for 18 months, around Perth and up the coast, you need a variety of pegs and fastenings as the ground can change so much between camp sites, and you are really up sh---t creek if you happen to have a concrete plinth where your pins should go.
I carried the normal pins which I used two per guy rope and they were crossed over each other. I had much longer and heavier pins as well. Plastic triangular pins and also the screw in types that one would use for tethering a horse or dog, or tying up a boat to the beach. If you are in pure sand they are the way to go.
I carried a drill and masonry bits to get through the hard surfaces.
I also had a system where if the annex was to be erected over a concrete plinth, I would stretch steel cable (very light) across, and passed through the rings on the bottom of the annex, pegged under the sides of the concrete, then tensioned by turn barrels, this worked quite well in those circumstances and in high winds.
The worst time I experienced with the weather, with permission from the park manager, I dyna-bolted angle brackets to the plinth, and then used two hose clamps per post to secure it down. While three houses lost their roofs, we survived.
Camper trailers like the Jayco Swan do not like the wind, and the annex actually strengthened and made the roof of the trailer more secure.
Twice I had the annex smashed in, probably because of water pooling and the wind. Once a post etc. goes the integral strength of the unit is lost.
jules47 those screws would also be the bees knees for holding down the foot plates on the "Roll out" awning posts.
jules47 said
05:37 PM Jan 26, 2015
Ian - the screws would work well on the foot plates, but as we don't have an annex as such, we leave them attached to the motorhome, the triangle is actually stronger than the straight legs - so I have been told by "experts".
Camper trailer we used to have was bad for pooling water, till we got some pole to put in the middle of the roof - nothing worse than lying in bed, looking at the water pooled above your head, and afraid to sit up in case you touched it, and the roof started leaking. Never happened, but made sure of it with the poles across the roof. Our was a soft floor type.
aussie_paul said
06:52 PM Jan 26, 2015
I have not been able to find these length screws Jules47!!
Aussie Paul.
jules47 said
08:18 PM Jan 26, 2015
Look for a place Coventry Fasteners, they may be able to help, though Yeoeleven got some 200mm ones, and they seem to be ok. He got his at the Big B. Ours came from a small hardware shop.
They are good in most types of ground we have found, including softish sandy ground.
iana said
08:58 PM Jan 26, 2015
Coventry fasteners is now called Konnect Fasteners. In sandy or loose soil I used these.
I'm going to toss this in the ring and see what happens?
Pondering over the design of our new van, I have almost come to the conclusion that recliner chairs just won't fit i.e. you can't from a practical sense fully recline (and go to sleep) in them. But I want more room.
Our Jayco Swan camper trailer had a full annex, that gave us another room outside, where one could get out the camper chairs and lay right back. That annex was made up of struts and poles.
Most vans come with a roll out awning, I see campers religiously stowing them away each night if wind is forecast.
So if I was to go for an 18ft van, for example, and get an annex made to increase living space, now bear in mind that once erected it would stay up regardless of forecast winds (not cyclones of course), can the roll out awning with attached walls cope, or is the purpose built annex with poles and guy ropes a stronger option.
Before people start ranting about what winds they've been in, I have been in some very high winds, where I have had to dyna-bolt the poles to the pad. I have been totally smashed, and so know about wind.
The question is whether the roll out awning is suitable to use as an annex set up, or is pole and strut set up a stronger and better option, even though it may take longer to put up.
you then only have to worry about the roof and whether it flaps too much which is controlled by the awning bars
I think most caravan parks would object to dyna bolts in their pads and most of the areas around the pads are normally soft so grip is difficult for stakes
what you want to do can be done but it can be a big chore at times and may not be possible some times
brian
Glen
One of the problems that I see may occur is water pooling on the roof. The awning-annex I had, had a central roof pole which would help, but water would still pool. This leads to a huge increase of weight and then collapse. A 14 ft awning with out one or two extra roof supports is a fair span.
Larry
Ian, if you go to the bottom of this page you will see the Aussie Traveller Coolibah awning with walls. I have just the awning and a couple of walls. It has stood several big blows where others with roll out awnings had wound theirs in. A mate had one with full annex walls that lasted a good blow at Ballina where all around him was in tatters.
If you go to the bottom of this page you will see a video of the Coolibah on one of your type camper trailers.
One of the problems that I see may occur is water pooling on the roof. The awning-annex I had, had a central roof pole which would help, but water would still pool. This leads to a huge increase of weight and then collapse. A 14 ft awning with out one or two extra roof supports is a fair span.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We use curved roof rafters that will help to prevent this happening. We also set the annexe/awning up with one end a couple of holes lower than the other end so water will run off. This has worked well for us in some very heavy downpours.
We always use our awning strap which is 50mm wide and goes over the whole awning to hold it down.
frank
I must have a different screen, however I checked out the "Aussie Traveller Coolibah" web site. That camper trailer would have been very similar, and I rechon he took longer to put it up than the time I took to put up mine.
However it has occurred to me that I have asked an unfair question. In as much that 90% or more of you would have purchased the van and guess what the awning comes as standard inclusion.
This means that what ever you do, adding an annex is a modification of the existing awing. Where as, I am talking about a full purpose built annex as opposed to an awning modified to except walls. Therefore the majority of you will have no experience in comparing the two.
I have to apologize, I am sorry that I dare to question everything the salesman throws at me, I've done it on solar panels, Digital TV, and will continue to question until I am satisfied. So I'm sorry that I am being different.
PS I used to work out the back of a shop, and used to get a kick out of asking the sales guys "How do you tell if a salesman is lying -- answer his lips are moving"
deverall11 I agree with what you saying. An awning is no different to a sail.
As you can see, my extra room was very similar to the video clip. But it was purpose built.KFT you are telling me "pooling" can occur, and what steps you have taken to reduce t
he risk.
-- Edited by iana on Saturday 24th of January 2015 04:09:32 PM
HI
Just be aware that you canot have a fully enclosed annexe over the 3way fridge flue vent .
ie annexe on the same side as the 3way fridge
PeterQ
pooling can happen with any of them if not set up to allow water to run straight off. Either by additional support as in the curved rafters or setting it up with a slope to one end (in the case of an awning)
If your setup will be like the picture you posted I don't think you will have an issue looking at the fall on the roof of that annexe.
frank
-- Depending on the brand of Awning's.. the Best way to see if your going to have issues is to check out the SPARE's list of the awning...
Regarding the issue of leaving in or out... As long as you have the awning securely fixed that is not an issue..
Re - the Issue of water... Look at the angle that most People have their awning at... if Flat, yes you can have issues.. or angle them more and forgo any issues...
the Roof rafters are a very good idea.. so is the use of Pool Noodles to stop the Awning from Flapping and getting scuffed on the roof rafter...
How about getting some answer's from the People that camp up for longer periods of time... They put more of an effort to overcome all these issue's..
Juergen
I don't recall saying I had an issue with the awning, my question was about the annex.
-- Edited by iana on Sunday 25th of January 2015 12:36:35 PM
Some time back we stayed at Sheepyard Flats out from Mansfield.
We pulled out the awning and attached the annex walls and made sure
that everything was pegged down securely, zipped the zips to secure the ends to the side wall.
Lovely sunny day then suddenly black and huge deposit of hail. Looked like a snow storm had struck.
Apart from some hail sitting on the roof 'cos the slope of the roof wasn't deep enough,there was no damage
done to the annex or awning. Melting hail stones created pockets of water everywhere making mud.
The storm put all the fires out,smoke and steam blanketed the area,some tents were flooded.
Sunshine the next day and every thing dried out beautifully.
I think that if you set it all up properly you shouldn't have any problems.
Hi.Iana.We have a 26ft(CABIN SIZE) 30ft overall Spaceland caravan.It has a roll out awning.On passing through Ballina we had Undercover Canvass make a full annex.Staying in Bungendore N.S.W. for 3 months of wet and very windy weather we hand little trouble.Firstly we fitted 4 curved rafters PLUS 4 roll bar foam tubes (from masters hardware)to fit onto the rafter at the awning roll end.WWe then threw a rope over the awning end to end.With the awning legs out vertical and pinned,plus guy ropes,no worries.It may sound like a lot of effort,but once you have done it once it becomes a doddle.No pooling.However, we did use waterproof cloth tape at the top corners where annex wall met van side.Hope this answers your question.
Still I never got any input from anyone with a purpose built annex. But by going back to looking at the bigger van, then an awning is pretty much all I'll need.
The camper trailer has been sold months ago, but the annex was a handy extra room while we had it.
We had wind at Corrimal last week. I thought I was going to lose my awning but managed to get it in without damage. I have guy ropes on the ends but the movement was scary. The bloke two sites down had a similar awning with an annexe and while the walls billowed in and out as the wind swirled, there was no problem. The wind couldn't get under the roof.
The roll out awning is good to build an annexe under, but make sure it's sealed and you use guy ropes and long pegs.
PS We used to carry an annexe for use on long stays, then we got a bigger van and don't need one.
-- Edited by KevinC on Monday 26th of January 2015 11:02:33 AM
When pegging your awning down - the longer you can go into the ground the better - we are camped near a lake and there is wind nearly every day, not too bad, but enough. Our awning does not move, we have a double rope and a single rope on each end and the ropes are attached to some long bolts, with washers on the ends to prevent them slipping through. These bolts are drilled it with a drill, and taken out the same way. We have been in some pretty high winds, and the awning does not move at all, we use anti flappers as well. Anywhere you have to peg something down, these bolts are the way to go - will put a picture of the bolts - they are 250mm long.
-- Edited by jules47 on Monday 26th of January 2015 11:21:12 AM
I carried the normal pins which I used two per guy rope and they were crossed over each other. I had much longer and heavier pins as well. Plastic triangular pins and also the screw in types that one would use for tethering a horse or dog, or tying up a boat to the beach. If you are in pure sand they are the way to go.
I carried a drill and masonry bits to get through the hard surfaces.
I also had a system where if the annex was to be erected over a concrete plinth, I would stretch steel cable (very light) across, and passed through the rings on the bottom of the annex, pegged under the sides of the concrete, then tensioned by turn barrels, this worked quite well in those circumstances and in high winds.
The worst time I experienced with the weather, with permission from the park manager, I dyna-bolted angle brackets to the plinth, and then used two hose clamps per post to secure it down. While three houses lost their roofs, we survived.
Camper trailers like the Jayco Swan do not like the wind, and the annex actually strengthened and made the roof of the trailer more secure.
Twice I had the annex smashed in, probably because of water pooling and the wind. Once a post etc. goes the integral strength of the unit is lost.
jules47 those screws would also be the bees knees for holding down the foot plates on the "Roll out" awning posts.
Camper trailer we used to have was bad for pooling water, till we got some pole to put in the middle of the roof - nothing worse than lying in bed, looking at the water pooled above your head, and afraid to sit up in case you touched it, and the roof started leaking. Never happened, but made sure of it with the poles across the roof. Our was a soft floor type.
I have not been able to find these length screws Jules47!!
Aussie Paul.
They are good in most types of ground we have found, including softish sandy ground.
Coventry fasteners is now c
alled Konnect Fasteners.
In sandy or loose soil I used these.
I have found that out, thanks Ian.
Aussie Paul.
Hi mate Bunnings sells them in a packet of twinty
Ok, thanks CC. I have tried both Bunnings and Masters stores and online and had no luck. I will have to try again then. Which Bunnings store?
Aussie Paul.
They all have the same setup