Hello fellow travellers! I am so looking forward to 'conversing' with you but I need some expert advice please - I am the researcher in our duo. We know what we want in our van (have not decided on the source though) but we know we'll need 3.5 tonnes towing capability. Our vehicle budget is <$80k and we want a diesel. So far I have narrowed it down to a used landcruiser VX (Sahara is too expensive) or a Ford Ranger 4x4 XLT but am open to the wisdom of experience out there. A comfortable ride over long distances is really important but obviously safety is paramount. I have read that the cruiser can be a bit unstable cornering if top-loaded with gear (eg roof racks or pods). My husband is 6'4" and I am 5'3" so grab rails are an absolute must for me and legroom and headroom are a must for him. He understands all the Gross Vehicle mass criteria (that's how we calculated we'd need 3.5tonnes towing capacity) so that's all OK. I'd like to hear about the vehicles I've noted and obviously, any that aren't that would meet our criteria.
Thank you for listening. Have an absolutely fantastic 2015.
Cheers
Robyn
-- Edited by Flags2 on Friday 2nd of January 2015 10:07:54 AM
rockylizard said
10:32 AM Jan 2, 2015
Flags2 wrote:
Hello fellow travellers! I am so looking forward to 'conversing' with you but I need some expert advice please - I am the researcher in our duo. We know what we want in our van (have not decided on the source though) but we know we'll need 3.5 tonnes towing capability. Our vehicle budget is <$80 and we want a diesel. So far I have narrowed it down to a used landcruiser VX (Sahara is too expensive) or a Ford Ranger 4x4 XLT but am open to the wisdom of experience out there. A comfortable ride over long distances is really important but obviously safety is paramount. I have read that the cruiser can be a bit unstable cornering if top-loaded with gear (eg roof racks or pods). My husband is 6'4" and I am 5'3" so grab rails are an absolute must for me and legroom and headroom are a must for him. He understands all the Gross Vehicle mass criteria (that's how we calculated we'd need 3.5tonnes towing capacity) so that's all OK. I'd like to hear about the vehicles I've noted and obviously, any that aren't that would meet our criteria.
Thank you for listening. Have an absolutely fantastic 2015.
Cheers
Robyn
Gday...
Firstly welcome to the forum. You will get many and varied opinions on which is the better vehicle - all of them will be quite valid.
I will openly state upfront my bias is to the Land Rover Discovery 3/4.
I have a Discovery 3 and it meets your criteria -
<$80 - Discovery 3 from $40k and you would get a very good low Km Discovery 4 for $80k
3.5t towing capacity - definitely
Diesel - choice of 2.7ltr (430Nm) or 3.0ltr (600Nm) - 6 speed auto.
Provides a VERY comfortable ride over long distances, over any terrain - is very "car-like" on AND off road.
Discovery 3 has 4star ANCAP rating - Disco very 4 5star rating
Discovery is an extremely stable vehicle - in all circumstances.
Excellent "liveability" Great headroom, back/forward/up/down seat adjustment.
Access is excellent - the electronic air suspension has an "access height" which lowers it to 'normal' car level - it has grab handles but you won't need them.
Economy - 8.5ltr/100km not towing (110kph cruising) ... 13.5-14.5ltr/100km towing 2,600Kg van (sitting on 90kph)
Despite the heated discussion it will probably provoke, does not need WDH (and not recommended by Land Rover).
Ignore the screams of "unreliable" - I bought mine with 70,000km .. now has 170,000km. I travel full-time and I have not had a single problem that has caused me to be stuck on the side of the road, or holed up somewhere waiting for parts. I have not met face-to-face any Discovery 3/4 owner who is not happy with their vehicle.
Dealer network - limited to only major cities. Although, I have not had any trouble getting service from 'independents' and others when needed. If you buy one, take out Land Rover Aussie Assist roadside service. About $150/year and I know they provide excellent coverage and service if needed.
I have owned Fairlanes, HiLux, Landcruisers (60, 80 and 100 series), Hyundai Terracan. The Discovery is the best car I have owned; the best 4X4 I have owned; the best tow vehicle I have owned.
Simply add a Discovery 3 or 4 to you list of "vehicles I must drive" ... you will not be disappointed.
BUT !! .... please remember whatever vehicle you choose it must be what YOU want and need. You are wise doing the research and 99% of vehicles on the market will do most (if not all) of what you want ... and EVERY make/model of vehicle has a problem - have suffered recalls - have diehard fans - have diehard detractors. Every vehicle made since about 2005 has electronic gadgetry ... and all service centres, no matter where they are located, for any modern vehicle, don't carry spare parts other than "service consumables". If something outside a 'normal service' occurs you will wait from 24hours to a week for delivery of the part.
Lots of luck - I don't envy you the process. I would hate to try to find something to replace my Discovery - I just love it and there is very little on the market that better meets my needs.
OH ... and a big apology for my long-winded post ... I can't help myself sometimes
Cheers - John
Flags2 said
11:16 AM Jan 2, 2015
John,
Thank you and I sincerely appreciate your feedback and please don't apologise because that's exactly the type of information I am after. - everything you provided was excellent. A bit spooky really because I was just reading a review of the disco 4 and told my hubby to read it as well (he's not hot on Brit cars - his first car was a Morris 'S' poor thing and he is quite adamant the S did not stand for 'special'!) I hadn't considered the Disco because of the cost - for some reason I assumed they were over 100K - never assume. More research to do!!!!
Take care
Cheers
Robyn
dazren said
11:21 AM Jan 2, 2015
NOT long winded at all RL, very informative post, you say your biased, but your bias, is based on your proven facts and service provided by your vehicle, I must admit i have always liked the look of them, and have driven a couple of the early models, and was very impressed, in the comfort of ride and the great visability
I think your reply to Flags2 will be very beneficial, and if I was them, I would include the 3 or 4 Disco, in my short list, for sure, as Although the Cruiser seems to be The Vehicle of Choice, and have proven to be Capable and Reliable, They are still NOT without problems, and are also very expensive to repair,
I am Not in the market for a New Tow Vehicle, But if i was at this point in time i Like the Ford Ranger / Mazda type utes, However I would Not rush out and by one, without at least giving the Disco's a good investigation,? Good post John,
Aus-Kiwi said
01:25 PM Jan 2, 2015
The smaller turbo diesels do a great job..
BUT I think your on the right path with larger framed vehicle..
A little more fuel usage but much easier motoring..
The Cruiser and other vehicles drive MUCH better with larger [wider] wheel option..
So the things you hear about handling etc is the same to most vehicles ..
Plendo said
02:20 PM Jan 2, 2015
Welcome to the forum Robyn.
With the question you posed, I expect you will get many and varied responses but in the end the choice is of course yours.
And I will also declare a very strong bias right up front, I tow with a Landrover Discovery 4, and in my humble opinion it is the best vehicle available on the Australian market to tow heavy van. Now that my bias is out in the open I will tell you why I drive a Disco.
We started the process of preparing to be Grey Nomad a bit over three years ago, initially we looked at medium sized vans (18 - 19 foot), then we started to look at 5th wheelers, and we were keen on the idea of a 5th, until I thought about using a long ute in every day life, I am still working so the long ute just did not make sense.
We then went back to look at caravans, and after a lot of research we settled for a Retreat Brampton, which we planned to build to be totally independent, which we eventually did by adding a lot of solar, big lithium batteries, etc. We now have a van where we can do things like run our air con when free camping without starting a generator.
Once the van was chosen it dictated the capability require din the tow vehicle, it had to be capable of towing 3.5T, and it had to be comfortable. This narrowed our field to very few vehicles:
Landcruiser 200 series, discounted for a number of reasons, real problems with payload, terrible fuel economy, basically it is an old vehicle that has been updated. Old technology.
Jeep Grand Cherokee, nice diesel, a lot of vehicle for the price, but unfortunately I was not comfortable with the vehicle dynamics, I just felt too remote from what was happening, as in lack of feel. I described it at the time as being like ridding in a lounge chair on top of an air matress on top of a billy cart. Also running cost, and repair cost concerns, just could not get answers from the dealer around service costs etc.
VW Toureg, a great vehicle, lovely to drive, more bells and whistles than any of its competitors. But everything said towing was an after thought. When driving it did not feel as if it would have the authority to manage a large van on the road.
Disco 4, as soon as we drove it we knew it was the right vehicle for the job. It was designed as a tow vehicle, and towing is just written into its DNA.
The 2013 & 14 models have the u speed box, which improves driveability and economy, we tow our van which weighs 3.4T loaded and sits high on independent suspension, our typical economy towing is under 14l/100k, the worst we have seen was almost 16.
And it fits your price range, as the 2014 Discovery 4 is available new from $79,990, and that is before you do any bargaining.
When we were looking we struggled to spend the money to buy the Disco, the thing that made up our minds was the realisation that we would be driving the vehicle EVERY day, and how much better it would be if it was a vehicle that was comfortable and capable.
Good luck with your decision.
Snail said
03:13 PM Jan 2, 2015
Hi Robyn,
Below is a car reliability study
Most Dependable Manufacturers
Performance by make is based on problems per 100 vehicles for all models; a lower score is better. The industry average is 126. Click on a manufacturer name to read the latest Cars.com make report.
Source: J.D. Power and Associates 2013 Vehicle Dependability Study
-- Edited by Snail on Friday 2nd of January 2015 03:15:36 PM
Plendo said
03:39 PM Jan 2, 2015
I think it would be fair to point out that NONE of the vehicles you would be looking at are included in the model lineups to which the Cars America reliability statistics are based.
The almost relevant SUVs in the model line ups all have large Petrol V8s.
If you went by reliability charts we would all drive Honds, as they top the Australian charts by a long way, being almost twice as reliable as Toyotas.
-- Edited by Plendo on Friday 2nd of January 2015 03:44:05 PM
-- Edited by Plendo on Friday 2nd of January 2015 03:44:37 PM
Snail said
04:18 PM Jan 2, 2015
Hi Pendo, reliability statistics are from the USA this one is from England. I could post more they are all the same
rockylizard said
04:35 PM Jan 2, 2015
Gday...
Understand where ya comin' from Snail ....
While you are plunging into the depths of Mr Google's archives, check out which vehicles have had the most recalls in 2013/2014 - in any country you wish to choose. That just may surprise you ... but they are not model specific but "manufacturer" attributed.
Unfortunately, these "reliability surveys" are not model specific either. In fact, they carry about as much weight as which car is voted "4X4 of the year". I again remind of my comments earlier before we are all drowned in ultimately meaningless stats -
"BUT !! .... please remember whatever vehicle you choose it must be what YOU want and need. You are wise doing the research and 99% of vehicles on the market will do most (if not all) of what you want ... and EVERY make/model of vehicle has a problem - have suffered recalls - have diehard fans - have diehard detractors. Every vehicle made since about 2005 has electronic gadgetry ... and all service centres, no matter where they are located, for any modern vehicle, don't carry spare parts other than "service consumables". If something outside a 'normal service' occurs you will wait from 24hours to a week for delivery of the part."
One needs to remember that the purchase of a vehicle will involve research, opinion-seeking, hands-on examination, price .. and then the final decision will usually be an "emotional" one .... I like it ..... why? ...well .... COZ
Cheers - happy evaluation, decision making and ultimate enjoyment in the choice - John
Plendo said
04:35 PM Jan 2, 2015
Snail,I know what I prefer to drive, and I seeing someone being misled by irrelevant statistics.
Out of the grey nomads I know only two have had significant vehicle problems, one had their vehicle towed into Port Agusta, and waited weeks for parts. the other had problems for months, gave up and bought a new Colorado. I could tell what brand of vehicle they both drove, but like your reliability statistics it would not, and should not influence people who are looking to buy a vehicle that suits them.
Snail said
05:01 PM Jan 2, 2015
Hi Guys,
I am a National Fleet Maintenance Manager, with a company that has 650 trucks and 400 cars of all makes and models including Land Rovers. What I am showing her, is based on fact. Yours are based on opinions. As to recalls, I will get one every other week for our trucks, this does not mean they are unreliable or not safe. By the way I'm not recommending any make of vehicle.
Cheers Snail
Flags2 said
05:24 PM Jan 2, 2015
Thank you for taking the time to reply Snail. I appreciate your intent and my hopes of obtaining the voices of experience are being fulfilled. I thank you for being part of that.
Safe travels
Cheers
Robyn
Snail said
05:45 PM Jan 2, 2015
Hi Robyn,
I do have a prejudice against Land Rover when I was a young apprentice my apprentice master love them and I spent a good part of 4 years repairing them. I would go bush on weekends in my Land Rover spend the rest of the week repairing it and dreamed of owning a Suzuki LJ 80 or a Toyota FJ 40
Cheers Snail
Peter_n_Margaret said
05:48 PM Jan 2, 2015
Not having owned ANY of the vehicles you are likely to consider, I would recommend choosing the vehicle with the best service and parts network in regional Australia (ie OUTSIDE the capital cities).
That would not be a Land Rover or a Ford or a Mitsubishi.............
Cheers,
Peter
(Who drives a vehicle that has to take its own spare parts :) )
Flags2 said
05:48 PM Jan 2, 2015
Sounds all too familiar! It will be fun working it all out and reading all the inputs. My spread sheet is at Version 6 and I guess there's more to come. Thanks for your input. Jeep, Amorak, Mazda BT-50, they are all still there! I have relegated a few to 'lower' rankings and eliminated a few (eg if no diesel option) but I never thought I'd be adding a Disco. Many thanks.
Safe travels
Cheers
Robyn
New Wanderers said
05:57 PM Jan 2, 2015
The question you pose always opens up some lively discussions on any of the forums, there are those who are in various vehicle camps because that is they own, there is nothing wrong with that. I'm not sure when you intent to purchase your chosen vehicle, if its later this year you also could look at the Ford Everest when its released, its based on the Ford Ranger with the same towing capacity but a large SUV, good luck with your decision.
rockylizard said
06:49 PM Jan 2, 2015
Snail wrote:
Hi Robyn,
I do have a prejudice against Land Rover when I was a young apprentice my apprentice master love them and I spent a good part of 4 years repairing them. I would go bush on weekends in my Land Rover spend the rest of the week repairing it and dreamed of owning a Suzuki LJ 80 or a Toyota FJ 40
Cheers Snail
Gday...
Geez Snail .. ya hold a grudge for a fair while mate ... that was at least 40 years ago.
Surely you realise that EVERY vehicle they were making then has changed considerably. Some aren't even being made at all now
Cheers - John
Cloak said
07:28 PM Jan 2, 2015
My Saab didn't even rate, so it must be better than Honda at position Zero....
Maybe not.
On second reading there it is down the wrong end... Bugga!
-- Edited by Cloak on Friday 2nd of January 2015 07:30:17 PM
Radar said
09:38 PM Jan 2, 2015
Hi Flags2.
We started with a Land Rover 2 TD5 great vehicle brought it when it was about 8 years old had lots of good times, then we grew to disliking loading the station wagon up with our extras like fishing gear, extra seats, extra frig and the list goes on.
So after a 3 month trip we come home for a short break when we took the opportunities to look at alternatives. After a couple of test drives a debate about this and that we decided a crew cab would work for us as we had already previously owned one and liked it. I knew we did not want to go back wards, comfort was high on the list, we did not need the 3.5 towing but be warned it not what it sounds like eg towing 3.5 leaves very little to put in the vehicle.
The end result for us was a Nissan Navara V6 TD 170 kw, 550 nm. Linked to a 7 speed auto,that more go then the rest of the crew cabs and more then most of the wagons performance wise. Comfort plus, great brakes, grab handles. Weak point back suspension needs improvement, short range of fuel tank 500 ks. Both will be fixed by suspension up grade and a long range tank.
Fixed price service at 10 000 ks is good value. All for under $60 000 new.
Discovery although old was great vehicle parts reasonable priced, longer service intervals and darn good on the road. Ralph
johnq said
12:15 AM Jan 3, 2015
Aus-Kiwi wrote:
The smaller turbo diesels do a great job.. BUT I think your on the right path with larger framed vehicle.. A little more fuel usage but much easier motoring.. The Cruiser and other vehicles drive MUCH better with larger [wider] wheel option.. So the things you hear about handling etc is the same to most vehicles ..
+1
deverall11 said
10:01 AM Jan 3, 2015
Plendo wrote:
The 2013 & 14 models have the u speed box, which improves driveability and economy, we tow our van which weighs 3.4T loaded and sits high on independent suspension, our typical economy towing is under 14l/100k, the worst we have seen was almost 16.
Plendo, we are currently looking at what tug to replace our 200 series Landcruiser. So far have or found anything that meets all the criterions. Looked at a VW Toureg, but the good one is a lot more expensive.
On the assumption that your fuel consumption is true, we will look at the Disco.
Larry
rockylizard said
11:26 AM Jan 3, 2015
Gday...
The fuel consumption for my Discovery 3 from 06 May 2010 to date.
The "Averages" relate to the headings shown.
[edit: clarification - where Km travelled exceeds Km shown in "Full Tank" I added a 20ltr Jerry can of fuel in that run]
Cheers - John
-- Edited by rockylizard on Saturday 3rd of January 2015 11:29:03 AM
revemike said
11:51 AM Jan 3, 2015
rockylizard wrote:
Gday...
The fuel consumption for my Discovery 3 from 06 May 2010 to date.
The "Averages" relate to the headings shown.
[edit: clarification - where Km travelled exceeds Km shown in "Full Tank" I added a 20ltr Jerry can of fuel in that run]
Cheers - John
-- Edited by rockylizard on Saturday 3rd of January 2015 11:29:03 AM
Hi John. Is this a spreadsheet you have developed? If so, is it one you would be willing to share?
Snail said
11:56 AM Jan 3, 2015
Hi John,
Do you ever remove your van from the vehicle all do you tow it 100% of the time?
Cheers. Snail
rockylizard said
12:01 PM Jan 3, 2015
Gday...
Live full-time in the van. The van would be on tow at least 80% of the time.
Any consumption below 12ltr/100km would be without van - highway use. Interestingly, I get better consumption towing the van than driving around in city driving without the van
Cheers - John
Snail said
12:23 PM Jan 3, 2015
John I'm surprised you use more than 14ltrs per 100kms in the city.
rockylizard said
12:34 PM Jan 3, 2015
Gday...
At times when in a "city" - doing short runs of less than 3-4km at a time the poor motor never gets even warm
Have you been into Melbourne/Sydney recently? stop-go-stop-go-stop-go-stop-go ... really chews up the fossil fuel.
I stayed at South Werribee Van Park in Melbourne recently. Had to go from there to Preston and then onto Greensborough and back to South Werribee. According to the Landy's computer I got 10.3ltr/100km ... but that was so much freeway and major roads on a night. If I go into the city and stay away from freeways in 'peak' traffic it is hard to get better than 14ltr/100km.
Cheers - John
TechnoGypsy said
12:33 AM Jan 4, 2015
Howdy Rockylizard - like Revemike I also admired your spreadsheet - and wondering if you would like to make it available please ?
If you had shown the 20litres on a separate line - would it have mucked your figures up ? as a part refill?
Tom_Cruiser_r69 said
09:05 AM Jan 4, 2015
"Hello fellow travellers! I am so looking forward to 'conversing' with you but I need some expert advice please - I am the researcher in our duo. We know what we want in our van (have not decided on the source though) but we know we'll need 3.5 tonnes towing capability. Our vehicle budget is <$80k and we want a diesel. So far I have narrowed it down to a used landcruiser VX (Sahara is too expensive) or a Ford Ranger 4x4 XLT but am open to the wisdom of experience out there. A comfortable ride over long distances is really important but obviously safety is paramount. I have read that the cruiser can be a bit unstable cornering if top-loaded with gear (eg roof racks or pods). My husband is 6'4" and I am 5'3" so grab rails are an absolute must for me and legroom and headroom are a must for him. He understands all the Gross Vehicle mass criteria (that's how we calculated we'd need 3.5tonnes towing capacity) so that's all OK. I'd like to hear about the vehicles I've noted and obviously, any that aren't that would meet our criteria.
Thank you for listening. Have an absolutely fantastic 2015.
Cheers
Robyn"
If I'm not mistaken this would be my first post.
I've been down this road many times and if I have any bias it is towards Toyota Landcruiser's. I've owned a couple, both of which displayed the utmost reliability. Having said that I could not justify spending over $90K for a new 200 Series when the time came to replace my vehicle so I settled on a Jeep but I'm not here to tout its credentials. I'm happy with it.
The point of my post is that I looked at many vehicles before I settle on the one I bought. At the time I wasn't clear on why would you buy a twin cab in preference to a wagon. In my opinion, the wagon is better for hard top touring where you load up, hitch up and drive to your destinations, but for free camps and off road camping etc I saw advantages in a "Ute", mainly in the way you store and access camping gear when not in caravan parks (generator & fuel, fridges, tents, extra batteries etc) without wrecking the inside of the wagon. Access to spare wheels is also a issue in a loaded vehicle if the spare is stored inside (like my Jeep).
I was talked out of the twin cab because they were just utes and certain invested parties didn't want to be seen in a "ute". I now regret I didn't think more clearly about what I intended to use it for.
Next time I'll buy a twin cab but only after sorting out the invested parties daily drive, making sure that's the vehicle we would drive from Melbourne to Adelaide or Sydney on a non towing tour, and get a twin cab for my drive and for towing the caravan.
My choices from my research in order of preference (and I'm no expert)?
Hello fellow travellers! I am so looking forward to 'conversing' with you but I need some expert advice please - I am the researcher in our duo. We know what we want in our van (have not decided on the source though) but we know we'll need 3.5 tonnes towing capability. Our vehicle budget is <$80k and we want a diesel. So far I have narrowed it down to a used landcruiser VX (Sahara is too expensive) or a Ford Ranger 4x4 XLT but am open to the wisdom of experience out there. A comfortable ride over long distances is really important but obviously safety is paramount. I have read that the cruiser can be a bit unstable cornering if top-loaded with gear (eg roof racks or pods). My husband is 6'4" and I am 5'3" so grab rails are an absolute must for me and legroom and headroom are a must for him. He understands all the Gross Vehicle mass criteria (that's how we calculated we'd need 3.5tonnes towing capacity) so that's all OK. I'd like to hear about the vehicles I've noted and obviously, any that aren't that would meet our criteria.
Thank you for listening. Have an absolutely fantastic 2015.
Cheers
Robyn
-- Edited by Flags2 on Friday 2nd of January 2015 10:07:54 AM
Gday...
Firstly welcome to the forum. You will get many and varied opinions on which is the better vehicle - all of them will be quite valid.
I will openly state upfront my bias is to the Land Rover Discovery 3/4.
I have a Discovery 3 and it meets your criteria -
Ignore the screams of "unreliable" - I bought mine with 70,000km .. now has 170,000km. I travel full-time and I have not had a single problem that has caused me to be stuck on the side of the road, or holed up somewhere waiting for parts. I have not met face-to-face any Discovery 3/4 owner who is not happy with their vehicle.
Dealer network - limited to only major cities. Although, I have not had any trouble getting service from 'independents' and others when needed. If you buy one, take out Land Rover Aussie Assist roadside service. About $150/year and I know they provide excellent coverage and service if needed.
I have owned Fairlanes, HiLux, Landcruisers (60, 80 and 100 series), Hyundai Terracan. The Discovery is the best car I have owned; the best 4X4 I have owned; the best tow vehicle I have owned.
Simply add a Discovery 3 or 4 to you list of "vehicles I must drive" ... you will not be disappointed.
BUT !! .... please remember whatever vehicle you choose it must be what YOU want and need. You are wise doing the research and 99% of vehicles on the market will do most (if not all) of what you want ... and EVERY make/model of vehicle has a problem - have suffered recalls - have diehard fans - have diehard detractors. Every vehicle made since about 2005 has electronic gadgetry ... and all service centres, no matter where they are located, for any modern vehicle, don't carry spare parts other than "service consumables". If something outside a 'normal service' occurs you will wait from 24hours to a week for delivery of the part.
Lots of luck - I don't envy you the process. I would hate to try to find something to replace my Discovery - I just love it and there is very little on the market that better meets my needs.
OH ... and a big apology for my long-winded post ... I can't help myself sometimes
Cheers - John
Thank you and I sincerely appreciate your feedback and please don't apologise because that's exactly the type of information I am after. - everything you provided was excellent. A bit spooky really because I was just reading a review of the disco 4 and told my hubby to read it as well (he's not hot on Brit cars - his first car was a Morris 'S' poor thing and he is quite adamant the S did not stand for 'special'!) I hadn't considered the Disco because of the cost - for some reason I assumed they were over 100K - never assume. More research to do!!!!
Take care
Cheers
Robyn
I think your reply to Flags2 will be very beneficial, and if I was them, I would include the 3 or 4 Disco, in my short list, for sure, as Although the Cruiser seems to be The Vehicle of Choice, and have proven to be Capable and Reliable, They are still NOT without problems, and are also very expensive to repair,
I am Not in the market for a New Tow Vehicle, But if i was at this point in time i Like the Ford Ranger / Mazda type utes, However I would Not rush out and by one, without at least giving the Disco's a good investigation,? Good post John,
BUT I think your on the right path with larger framed vehicle..
A little more fuel usage but much easier motoring..
The Cruiser and other vehicles drive MUCH better with larger [wider] wheel option..
So the things you hear about handling etc is the same to most vehicles ..
Welcome to the forum Robyn.
With the question you posed, I expect you will get many and varied responses but in the end the choice is of course yours.
And I will also declare a very strong bias right up front, I tow with a Landrover Discovery 4, and in my humble opinion it is the best vehicle available on the Australian market to tow heavy van. Now that my bias is out in the open I will tell you why I drive a Disco.
We started the process of preparing to be Grey Nomad a bit over three years ago, initially we looked at medium sized vans (18 - 19 foot), then we started to look at 5th wheelers, and we were keen on the idea of a 5th, until I thought about using a long ute in every day life, I am still working so the long ute just did not make sense.
We then went back to look at caravans, and after a lot of research we settled for a Retreat Brampton, which we planned to build to be totally independent, which we eventually did by adding a lot of solar, big lithium batteries, etc. We now have a van where we can do things like run our air con when free camping without starting a generator.
Once the van was chosen it dictated the capability require din the tow vehicle, it had to be capable of towing 3.5T, and it had to be comfortable. This narrowed our field to very few vehicles:
Landcruiser 200 series, discounted for a number of reasons, real problems with payload, terrible fuel economy, basically it is an old vehicle that has been updated. Old technology.
Jeep Grand Cherokee, nice diesel, a lot of vehicle for the price, but unfortunately I was not comfortable with the vehicle dynamics, I just felt too remote from what was happening, as in lack of feel. I described it at the time as being like ridding in a lounge chair on top of an air matress on top of a billy cart. Also running cost, and repair cost concerns, just could not get answers from the dealer around service costs etc.
VW Toureg, a great vehicle, lovely to drive, more bells and whistles than any of its competitors. But everything said towing was an after thought. When driving it did not feel as if it would have the authority to manage a large van on the road.
Disco 4, as soon as we drove it we knew it was the right vehicle for the job. It was designed as a tow vehicle, and towing is just written into its DNA.
The 2013 & 14 models have the u speed box, which improves driveability and economy, we tow our van which weighs 3.4T loaded and sits high on independent suspension, our typical economy towing is under 14l/100k, the worst we have seen was almost 16.
And it fits your price range, as the 2014 Discovery 4 is available new from $79,990, and that is before you do any bargaining.
When we were looking we struggled to spend the money to buy the Disco, the thing that made up our minds was the realisation that we would be driving the vehicle EVERY day, and how much better it would be if it was a vehicle that was comfortable and capable.
Good luck with your decision.
Hi Robyn,
Below is a car reliability study
Source: J.D. Power and Associates 2013 Vehicle Dependability Study
-- Edited by Snail on Friday 2nd of January 2015 03:15:36 PM
I think it would be fair to point out that NONE of the vehicles you would be looking at are included in the model lineups to which the Cars America reliability statistics are based.
The almost relevant SUVs in the model line ups all have large Petrol V8s.
If you went by reliability charts we would all drive Honds, as they top the Australian charts by a long way, being almost twice as reliable as Toyotas.
-- Edited by Plendo on Friday 2nd of January 2015 03:44:05 PM
-- Edited by Plendo on Friday 2nd of January 2015 03:44:37 PM
Gday...
While you are plunging into the depths of Mr Google's archives, check out which vehicles have had the most recalls in 2013/2014 - in any country you wish to choose. That just may surprise you ... but they are not model specific but "manufacturer" attributed.
Unfortunately, these "reliability surveys" are not model specific either. In fact, they carry about as much weight as which car is voted "4X4 of the year". I again remind of my comments earlier before we are all drowned in ultimately meaningless stats -
"BUT !! .... please remember whatever vehicle you choose it must be what YOU want and need. You are wise doing the research and 99% of vehicles on the market will do most (if not all) of what you want ... and EVERY make/model of vehicle has a problem - have suffered recalls - have diehard fans - have diehard detractors. Every vehicle made since about 2005 has electronic gadgetry ... and all service centres, no matter where they are located, for any modern vehicle, don't carry spare parts other than "service consumables". If something outside a 'normal service' occurs you will wait from 24hours to a week for delivery of the part."
One needs to remember that the purchase of a vehicle will involve research, opinion-seeking, hands-on examination, price .. and then the final decision will usually be an "emotional" one .... I like it ..... why? ...well .... COZ
Cheers - happy evaluation, decision making and ultimate enjoyment in the choice - John
Snail,I know what I prefer to drive, and I seeing someone being misled by irrelevant statistics.
Out of the grey nomads I know only two have had significant vehicle problems, one had their vehicle towed into Port Agusta, and waited weeks for parts. the other had problems for months, gave up and bought a new Colorado. I could tell what brand of vehicle they both drove, but like your reliability statistics it would not, and should not influence people who are looking to buy a vehicle that suits them.
Hi Guys,
I am a National Fleet Maintenance Manager, with a company that has 650 trucks and 400 cars of all makes and models including Land Rovers. What I am showing her, is based on fact. Yours are based on opinions. As to recalls, I will get one every other week for our trucks, this does not mean they are unreliable or not safe. By the way I'm not recommending any make of vehicle.
Cheers Snail
Thank you for taking the time to reply Snail. I appreciate your intent and my hopes of obtaining the voices of experience are being fulfilled. I thank you for being part of that.
Safe travels
Cheers
Robyn
Hi Robyn,
I do have a prejudice against Land Rover when I was a young apprentice my apprentice master love them and I spent a good part of 4 years repairing them. I would go bush on weekends in my Land Rover spend the rest of the week repairing it and dreamed of owning a Suzuki LJ 80 or a Toyota FJ 40
Cheers Snail
That would not be a Land Rover or a Ford or a Mitsubishi.............
Cheers,
Peter
(Who drives a vehicle that has to take its own spare parts :) )
Sounds all too familiar! It will be fun working it all out and reading all the inputs. My spread sheet is at Version 6 and I guess there's more to come. Thanks for your input. Jeep, Amorak, Mazda BT-50, they are all still there! I have relegated a few to 'lower' rankings and eliminated a few (eg if no diesel option) but I never thought I'd be adding a Disco. Many thanks.
Safe travels
Cheers
Robyn
Gday...
Geez Snail .. ya hold a grudge for a fair while mate
... that was at least 40 years ago. 
Surely you realise that EVERY vehicle they were making then has changed considerably.
Some aren't even being made at all now 
Cheers - John
My Saab didn't even rate, so it must be better than Honda at position Zero....
Maybe not.
On second reading there it is down the wrong end... Bugga!
-- Edited by Cloak on Friday 2nd of January 2015 07:30:17 PM
Hi Flags2.
We started with a Land Rover 2 TD5 great vehicle brought it when it was about 8 years old had lots of good times, then we grew to disliking loading the station wagon up with our extras like fishing gear, extra seats, extra frig and the list goes on.
So after a 3 month trip we come home for a short break when we took the opportunities to look at alternatives. After a couple of test drives a debate about this and that we decided a crew cab would work for us as we had already previously owned one and liked it. I knew we did not want to go back wards, comfort was high on the list, we did not need the 3.5 towing but be warned it not what it sounds like eg towing 3.5 leaves very little to put in the vehicle.
The end result for us was a Nissan Navara V6 TD 170 kw, 550 nm. Linked to a 7 speed auto,that more go then the rest of the crew cabs and more then most of the wagons performance wise. Comfort plus, great brakes, grab handles. Weak point back suspension needs improvement, short range of fuel tank 500 ks. Both will be fixed by suspension up grade and a long range tank.
Fixed price service at 10 000 ks is good value. All for under $60 000 new.
Discovery although old was great vehicle parts reasonable priced, longer service intervals and darn good on the road. Ralph
+1
Plendo, we are currently looking at what tug to replace our 200 series Landcruiser. So far have or found anything that meets all the criterions. Looked at a VW Toureg, but the good one is a lot more expensive.
On the assumption that your fuel consumption is true, we will look at the Disco.
Larry
Gday...
The fuel consumption for my Discovery 3 from 06 May 2010 to date.
The "Averages" relate to the headings shown.
[edit: clarification - where Km travelled exceeds Km shown in "Full Tank" I added a 20ltr Jerry can of fuel in that run]
Cheers - John
-- Edited by rockylizard on Saturday 3rd of January 2015 11:29:03 AM
Hi John. Is this a spreadsheet you have developed? If so, is it one you would be willing to share?
Hi John,
Do you ever remove your van from the vehicle all do you tow it 100% of the time?
Cheers. Snail
Gday...
Live full-time in the van. The van would be on tow at least 80% of the time.
Any consumption below 12ltr/100km would be without van - highway use. Interestingly, I get better consumption towing the van than driving around in city driving without the van
Cheers - John
John I'm surprised you use more than 14ltrs per 100kms in the city.
Gday...
At times when in a "city" - doing short runs of less than 3-4km at a time the poor motor never gets even warm
Have you been into Melbourne/Sydney recently?
stop-go-stop-go-stop-go-stop-go ... really chews up the fossil fuel.
I stayed at South Werribee Van Park in Melbourne recently. Had to go from there to Preston and then onto Greensborough and back to South Werribee. According to the Landy's computer I got 10.3ltr/100km ... but that was so much freeway and major roads on a night. If I go into the city and stay away from freeways in 'peak' traffic it is hard to get better than 14ltr/100km.
Cheers - John
If you had shown the 20litres on a separate line - would it have mucked your figures up ? as a part refill?
"Hello fellow travellers! I am so looking forward to 'conversing' with you but I need some expert advice please - I am the researcher in our duo. We know what we want in our van (have not decided on the source though) but we know we'll need 3.5 tonnes towing capability. Our vehicle budget is <$80k and we want a diesel. So far I have narrowed it down to a used landcruiser VX (Sahara is too expensive) or a Ford Ranger 4x4 XLT but am open to the wisdom of experience out there. A comfortable ride over long distances is really important but obviously safety is paramount. I have read that the cruiser can be a bit unstable cornering if top-loaded with gear (eg roof racks or pods). My husband is 6'4" and I am 5'3" so grab rails are an absolute must for me and legroom and headroom are a must for him. He understands all the Gross Vehicle mass criteria (that's how we calculated we'd need 3.5tonnes towing capacity) so that's all OK. I'd like to hear about the vehicles I've noted and obviously, any that aren't that would meet our criteria.
Thank you for listening. Have an absolutely fantastic 2015.
Cheers
Robyn"
If I'm not mistaken this would be my first post.
I've been down this road many times and if I have any bias it is towards Toyota Landcruiser's. I've owned a couple, both of which displayed the utmost reliability. Having said that I could not justify spending over $90K for a new 200 Series when the time came to replace my vehicle so I settled on a Jeep but I'm not here to tout its credentials. I'm happy with it.
The point of my post is that I looked at many vehicles before I settle on the one I bought. At the time I wasn't clear on why would you buy a twin cab in preference to a wagon. In my opinion, the wagon is better for hard top touring where you load up, hitch up and drive to your destinations, but for free camps and off road camping etc I saw advantages in a "Ute", mainly in the way you store and access camping gear when not in caravan parks (generator & fuel, fridges, tents, extra batteries etc) without wrecking the inside of the wagon. Access to spare wheels is also a issue in a loaded vehicle if the spare is stored inside (like my Jeep).
I was talked out of the twin cab because they were just utes and certain invested parties didn't want to be seen in a "ute". I now regret I didn't think more clearly about what I intended to use it for.
Next time I'll buy a twin cab but only after sorting out the invested parties daily drive, making sure that's the vehicle we would drive from Melbourne to Adelaide or Sydney on a non towing tour, and get a twin cab for my drive and for towing the caravan.
My choices from my research in order of preference (and I'm no expert)?
Mazda BT 50 , Ford Ranger (6 sp auto, 3.2litre 5 cylinder diesel)
Holden Colorado (6 sp auto)
Isuzu D Max
Toyota Hilux
If the Dmax had a 6 speed auto like the others I would rate it very highly.
Those are my thoughts
Tom
-- Edited by Tom_Cruiser_r69 on Sunday 4th of January 2015 09:07:09 AM