Over the last year I have gradually refined the setup and loading of our van, and it is fair to say I had it towing exactly as I wanted it, with a fair degree of load tolerance.
I set of from Greens on Sunday to return to Melbourne, and the van felt OK all the way through Tatura, Murchison, and then down the Goulburn Valley Highway to Seymour.
On the stretch from Seymour to Yea the van was behaving quite differently. It was the first stretch of road we hit with corners. On past trips it has towed beautifully through this stretch.
The rig was exhibiting more pitch than normal, and was tending to oversteer part way through corners. On reflection it really felt as if the front of the van was too heavy.
On the later stretch from Yea down to Lilydale it was fine, but here the road opens out a bit, and the corners are not as long.
What was different?
The obvious change was that we were towing with half tanks, they are normally full. And this would tend to make the front of the van lighter. Plus we have towed with them half full before, and it did not exhibit these characteristics.
When we got back to Lilydale and dropped the van, I weighed the ball weight, and it was higher than I expected by about 50kg.
The other change we made in the load, was to reduce the weight of the genie from 16kg to 8kg, and given that this is stored in the front boot it should have reduced the ball weight.
So all the things we have knowingly done should have reduced the ball weight by about 50kg (less water & lighter genie), but it seems as if the ball weight has increased significantly.
I will track it down. First I will check the ball weight scales, then work back from there.
Now before someone feels the need to lecture me about slowing down, we did.
The real message, and the reason I wrote this is to ask people to proceed with caution, do not assume that your van will tow the same as it did last time you towed it.
Cloak said
08:44 AM Dec 31, 2014
Good advice Plendo.
Let us know what you find.
Also check tyre pressure on the tug.
Crockie said
09:33 AM Dec 31, 2014
Hi Plendo,
We had a similar experience when we first started towing. On the trip out to this place we had full tanks, coming back empty, van behaved a lot different.
I called Jayco and they advised me to tow with full tanks. Ive been puting off doing a ball weight check for ages, figure Id better do one soon.
Happy new year mate and safe travels. Hope to catch up with you and Dougwe in 2015.
Dougwe said
09:40 AM Dec 31, 2014
David, me thinks you need to set up a spread sheet. It will also fill in all that slack time you seem to have at work I am going to do a little more culling between my Tug and Den. I really think I am keeping way too much "stuff" still, so that will change things with my set up as well.
No spread sheet for me though. I was spread sheeted out in my previous life.
hako said
09:42 AM Dec 31, 2014
Good and honest message Plendo - what disturbs me is that with many vans there is no margin for error - most vanners would not know the mechanics behind rig handling problems and just plough on regardless.
Regards
dazren said
10:41 AM Dec 31, 2014
Thanks Plendo, Really great and very Beneficial post for all ! Over the years i have noticed different characteristics under different situations of Loads etc and Road conditions and cambers also play a major roll in Tug and Van Behaviour
KFT said
11:17 AM Dec 31, 2014
G'day Plendo
you appear to have a good "feel" for your rig and know what it should and shouldn't be doing.
Excellent post that I am certain will be of some benefit to others who want to understand some of the dynamics of the towed load.
A real pity those who think they can hook on a couple of tonnes of caravan and drive like it is not there aren't made to read some of this sort of info.
Happy New Year
frank
gunnago said
01:37 PM Dec 31, 2014
maybe that xtra 50 kl was xmas tucker plendo just joking ha ha
Plendo said
01:50 PM Dec 31, 2014
Probably just the icecream Heather !
Aus-Kiwi said
04:11 PM Dec 31, 2014
Without sounding stupid or a hoon.. I give a few quick left and right hand turns and brake at 30 kph or so just to check things... I don't want to find out at the bottom of Mt Victoria etc.. We don't have a van but tow car trailers, horse floats over the years .. Balance and vehicle feel is critical. Can't be left for ABS , stability control ..
-- Edited by Aus-Kiwi on Wednesday 31st of December 2014 04:12:39 PM
-- Edited by Aus-Kiwi on Wednesday 31st of December 2014 04:13:25 PM
Plendo said
05:30 PM Dec 31, 2014
Thanks to all who have replied.
Yes I feel it is important to understand the dynamics of the vehicle, what affects what it does and how it does it.
Aus-Kiwi, I like your testing idea, had not thought of that. I tend to just be super alert to what is going on for a while, then relax into the tow once I know what to expect.
Doug, I am too busy at work, maybe I will just work it out in my noggin on the way to work. But I think you are right about culling, we have a lot of "what if" items along for the ride. I think we need to review, and only bring things that can do two jobs. Don't worry Heather the ice cream fits this category, it keeps the freezer full, and me happy.
I think it is a real shame that people are not forced through some sort of towing education program BEFORE they hit the road, and in the ideal world this would include some time in some sort of simulation, so that people understand what it should and importantly should not feel like. Because feel is one of the most important senses when controlling six tons of rig, with a hinge in the middle.
I certainly wish I had had the advantage of experience before i started towing heavy trailers, then I could have avoided a couple embarrassing jackknives (one as driver, and one as sleeping passenger).
I think it is a real shame that people are not forced through some sort of towing education program BEFORE they hit the road, and in the ideal world this would include some time in some sort of simulation, so that people understand what it should and importantly should not feel like. Because feel is one of the most important senses when controlling six tons of rig, with a hinge in the middle.
Good write up Plendo. What's even more stupid is the instance of some of the people who post on this forum and assume that newbies are able to set up their vans as per these given suggestions without fully understanding all the implications. This is why I will always suggest to a newbie to talk to as many experts they possibly can in order to get as much knowledge as possible and make their own deductions from there. Hope this makes sense.
Not all vaners are as diligent as you are.
Larry
Cadpete said
10:39 PM Dec 31, 2014
Plendo wrote:
I think it is a real shame that people are not forced through some sort of towing education program BEFORE they hit the road,
If it's any consolation the first thing Maz and I are doing after picking up our caravan is getting towing lessons - same day and hopefully meeting up at the caravan sales yard! We have never towed before and to me it just makes sense to protect our investment.
Plendo said
12:31 AM Jan 1, 2015
Peter, that is a great thing to do.
Please ask the company who are supplying the training if the cover proper vehicle set up, including loading/balancing the van, it honestly is critical to how well the rig tows.
I suspect there are many people out there who have not experienced how their rig should feel when well set up, and this just put up with it the way it is.
PeterD said
05:30 PM Jan 1, 2015
I would not have thought that the extra ball weight would have contributed to the instability. After all the Yanks often tow their large vans with 15 - 20% ball weight. My last van had 350 kg ball weigh on a 2 t loaded weight (the main reason for passing it on, it was above the tow bar limit.) That van was the most stable van I had.
mr glassies said
06:52 PM Jan 1, 2015
in my way of thinking the weight distribution from steer wheels and rear wheels (drive or not) is the start of any sort of stability . how many vans/trailers do you see with the front wheels nearly of the ground . not only is it unstable for your steering of the vehicle it also affects braking and stability if you don't have good weight on th front wheels they will sway from not having the correct weight holding them onto the road . same only in opposite way having the rear wheels only toughing the road . only you don't see many of that setup around . i have 4 water tanks and all have separate taps so i can use each tank separate to keep my draw bare weight about the same even using 2 tanks. I have a dolly wheel with scales in it so i can check it whenever i want . there cheep to buy and well worth it .
plendo it might have been the extra power you have on board hahahahahahahaha sinker
Over the last year I have gradually refined the setup and loading of our van, and it is fair to say I had it towing exactly as I wanted it, with a fair degree of load tolerance.
I set of from Greens on Sunday to return to Melbourne, and the van felt OK all the way through Tatura, Murchison, and then down the Goulburn Valley Highway to Seymour.
On the stretch from Seymour to Yea the van was behaving quite differently. It was the first stretch of road we hit with corners. On past trips it has towed beautifully through this stretch.
The rig was exhibiting more pitch than normal, and was tending to oversteer part way through corners. On reflection it really felt as if the front of the van was too heavy.
On the later stretch from Yea down to Lilydale it was fine, but here the road opens out a bit, and the corners are not as long.
What was different?
The obvious change was that we were towing with half tanks, they are normally full. And this would tend to make the front of the van lighter. Plus we have towed with them half full before, and it did not exhibit these characteristics.
When we got back to Lilydale and dropped the van, I weighed the ball weight, and it was higher than I expected by about 50kg.
The other change we made in the load, was to reduce the weight of the genie from 16kg to 8kg, and given that this is stored in the front boot it should have reduced the ball weight.
So all the things we have knowingly done should have reduced the ball weight by about 50kg (less water & lighter genie), but it seems as if the ball weight has increased significantly.
I will track it down. First I will check the ball weight scales, then work back from there.
Now before someone feels the need to lecture me about slowing down, we did.
The real message, and the reason I wrote this is to ask people to proceed with caution, do not assume that your van will tow the same as it did last time you towed it.
Let us know what you find.
Also check tyre pressure on the tug.
We had a similar experience when we first started towing. On the trip out to this place we had full tanks, coming back empty, van behaved a lot different.
I called Jayco and they advised me to tow with full tanks. Ive been puting off doing a ball weight check for ages, figure Id better do one soon.
Happy new year mate and safe travels. Hope to catch up with you and Dougwe in 2015.
David, me thinks you need to set up a spread sheet. It will also fill in all that slack time you seem to have at work
I am going to do a little more culling between my Tug and Den. I really think I am keeping way too much "stuff" still, so that will change things with my set up as well.
No spread sheet for me though. I was spread sheeted out in my previous life.
Regards
Thanks Plendo,
Really great and very Beneficial post for all ! Over the years i have noticed different characteristics under different situations of Loads etc and Road conditions and cambers also play a major roll in Tug and Van Behaviour
you appear to have a good "feel" for your rig and know what it should and shouldn't be doing.
Excellent post that I am certain will be of some benefit to others who want to understand some of the dynamics of the towed load.
A real pity those who think they can hook on a couple of tonnes of caravan and drive like it is not there aren't made to read some of this sort of info.
Happy New Year
frank
maybe that xtra 50 kl was xmas tucker plendo just joking ha ha
Probably just the icecream Heather !
Without sounding stupid or a hoon..
I give a few quick left and right hand turns and brake at 30 kph or so just to check things...
I don't want to find out at the bottom of Mt Victoria etc..
We don't have a van but tow car trailers, horse floats over the years ..
Balance and vehicle feel is critical. Can't be left for ABS , stability control ..
-- Edited by Aus-Kiwi on Wednesday 31st of December 2014 04:12:39 PM
-- Edited by Aus-Kiwi on Wednesday 31st of December 2014 04:13:25 PM
Thanks to all who have replied.
Yes I feel it is important to understand the dynamics of the vehicle, what affects what it does and how it does it.
Aus-Kiwi, I like your testing idea, had not thought of that. I tend to just be super alert to what is going on for a while, then relax into the tow once I know what to expect.
Doug, I am too busy at work, maybe I will just work it out in my noggin on the way to work. But I think you are right about culling, we have a lot of "what if" items along for the ride. I think we need to review, and only bring things that can do two jobs. Don't worry Heather the ice cream fits this category, it keeps the freezer full, and me happy.
I think it is a real shame that people are not forced through some sort of towing education program BEFORE they hit the road, and in the ideal world this would include some time in some sort of simulation, so that people understand what it should and importantly should not feel like. Because feel is one of the most important senses when controlling six tons of rig, with a hinge in the middle.
I certainly wish I had had the advantage of experience before i started towing heavy trailers, then I could have avoided a couple embarrassing jackknives (one as driver, and one as sleeping passenger).
caravanandmotorhomebooks.com/articles-index/
And watch this short video...very important....
www.youtube.com/watch
Cheers,
Peter
Good write up Plendo. What's even more stupid is the instance of some of the people who post on this forum and assume that newbies are able to set up their vans as per these given suggestions without fully understanding all the implications. This is why I will always suggest to a newbie to talk to as many experts they possibly can in order to get as much knowledge as possible and make their own deductions from there. Hope this makes sense.
Not all vaners are as diligent as you are.
Larry
If it's any consolation the first thing Maz and I are doing after picking up our caravan is getting towing lessons - same day and hopefully meeting up at the caravan sales yard! We have never towed before and to me it just makes sense to protect our investment.
Peter, that is a great thing to do.
Please ask the company who are supplying the training if the cover proper vehicle set up, including loading/balancing the van, it honestly is critical to how well the rig tows.
I suspect there are many people out there who have not experienced how their rig should feel when well set up, and this just put up with it the way it is.
plendo it might have been the extra power you have on board hahahahahahahaha sinker
dibs