I read (I think on this forum), that a manufacturer will increase the ATM of your van if your can show you have a vehicle that will comfortably and legally tow the increase.
I contacted Jayco yesterday and asked for a modest increase of our ATM to accommodate full water tanks etc.
I received a reply today that they will give me 600KGs payload ( a large increase) I have to provide evidence that I have destroyed the old compliance plate and they will send the new one.
Old compliance gave me 350KGs, by the time you put water and gas etc in you only have enough for a hanky or two. Im pretty chuffed with this outcome.
Be good and take care.
aussie_paul said
05:49 PM Dec 9, 2014
Phil C wrote:
Hi all
I read (I think on this forum), that a manufacturer will increase the ATM of your van if your can show you have a vehicle that will comfortably and legally tow the increase.
I contacted Jayco yesterday and asked for a modest increase of our ATM to accommodate full water tanks etc.
I received a reply today that they will give me 600KGs payload ( a large increase) I have to provide evidence that I have destroyed the old compliance plate and they will send the new one.
Old compliance gave me 350KGs, by the time you put water and gas etc in you only have enough for a hanky or two. Im pretty chuffed with this outcome.
Be good and take care.
Well done Phil, it always pays to ask.
Aussie Paul.
Delta18 said
12:22 PM Dec 10, 2014
Phil C wrote:
Hi all
I received a reply today that they will give me 600KGs payload ( a large increase) I have to provide evidence that I have destroyed the old compliance plate and they will send the new one
More crazy variable Australian Rules.
I have just done this same exercise but under WA rules I have to display the old and the new compliance plates side by side. I think to prove that the old plate is not being used elsewhere.
mr glassies said
05:40 PM Dec 10, 2014
same here in old phil you better check before you destroy the old ones i even had to wait for a copy of the old one because the van company destroyed them and the rat wouldn't do the rego till it was affixed with the new one . and even on my trucks iv bought a few over the last ten yrs and changed the bodies over and had to leave the old blue plate .
dibs
KFT said
05:42 PM Dec 10, 2014
I had the same sort of thing done for me by Traveller Caravans. Only difference was I had to express post the old plate and they did the same with my new one.
fantastic service and all with a cheery helpful attitude.
so it seems it can be done.
frank
Phil C said
06:12 PM Dec 10, 2014
Yeah, I was told very clearly that the old plate had to be destroyed before they sent the newbie.
Not sure I can understand why WA would want both plates displayed, lets face it if the engineers of the manufacturer say it can go heavier then thats the end of it despite what the aristocrats come out with...
The only thing Jayco wanted was a photo of the old plate cut up...
Photos coming.
Peter_n_Margaret said
07:30 PM Dec 10, 2014
Phil C wrote:
I read (I think on this forum), that a manufacturer will increase the ATM of your van if your can show you have a vehicle that will comfortably and legally tow the increase.
Whether or not an ATM can be increased, or not, is determined by the engineering of the van (brakes, wheels, tyres, chassis etc) and nothing to do with the tow vehicle.
Cheers,
Peter
Delta18 said
08:34 PM Dec 10, 2014
Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
Phil C wrote:
I read (I think on this forum), that a manufacturer will increase the ATM of your van if your can show you have a vehicle that will comfortably and legally tow the increase.
Whether or not an ATM can be increased, or not, is determined by the engineering of the van (brakes, wheels, tyres, chassis etc) and nothing to do with the tow vehicle.
Cheers,
Peter
Correct Peter, but they do stress that your vehicle must be capable of legally handling the upgrade.
In my case the ATM was 2660kg but the Axle Rating was 2900kg.
The ATM is now 2900kg.
Obviously the manufacturer uses the lower figure initially so more owners comply. Prados etc.
PeterD said
09:37 AM Dec 11, 2014
Phil C wrote:
Yeah, I was told very clearly that the old plate had to be destroyed before they sent the newbie.
Not sure I can understand why WA would want both plates displayed,
The difference is that in your case it was the manufacturer supplying the new plate. They are simply changing their plate over. With upgrades by certifying engineers both the manufacturers plate and their plate must be displayed. Nothing sinister about different states and different regs.
Peter_n_Margaret said
10:36 AM Dec 11, 2014
Delta18 wrote:
Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
Phil C wrote:
I read (I think on this forum), that a manufacturer will increase the ATM of your van if your can show you have a vehicle that will comfortably and legally tow the increase.
Whether or not an ATM can be increased, or not, is determined by the engineering of the van (brakes, wheels, tyres, chassis etc) and nothing to do with the tow vehicle.
Cheers,
Peter
Correct Peter, but they do stress that your vehicle must be capable of legally handling the upgrade.
In my case the ATM was 2660kg but the Axle Rating was 2900kg.
The ATM is now 2900kg.
Obviously the manufacturer uses the lower figure initially so more owners comply. Prados etc.
There is no legal requirement for the tug towing capacity to equal or exceed the ATM of the trailer.
It is quite legal to tow a trailer with 3.5T ATM with a tug with tow capacity of 2.5T PROVIDED the actual weight of the trailer at the time does not exceed 2.5T.
Cheers,
Peter
Lamb Chop said
08:32 PM Dec 12, 2014
We have a 2001 Roma Elegance twin axle. The manufacturers TARE was 1680kg with an ATM of 2080kg. There have been modifications made to the van since 2001 including solar panel etc. I emptied everything I could from the van, put it on the weigh bridge and it weighed 2000kg - OMG. I spoke with Roma who stated that if I obtained a mechanical engineers report verifying the van's capacity, they would issue a new compliance plate. I also had to satisfy VICROADS.
I took the van to an engineer who took his measurements then subjected them to a computer model. He commenced with a TARE of 2000kg. After doing all his calculations etc he produced an ATM capacity of 2500kg. I sent the report to Roma who issued a new compliance plate, then submitted the documents to VICROADS who issued a new Certificate showing a TARE of 2000kg and ATM of 2500KG. I tow the van with an NT 2011 Pajero. I ran all the information past our insurers (CIL) who were quite happy with the new compliance plate.
The conclusion is that if you want/need to change a compliance plate then seek the advice of a mechanical engineer. A few dollars spent here will prevent a lot of heartache down the track.
Peter_n_Margaret said
11:20 PM Dec 12, 2014
Yes, the ATM is determined by the engineering of a range of components including the chassis, the suspension, the hitch, the rims, the tyres and the brakes.
The one with the lowest capacity determines the ATM.
It may then be possible to upgrade the lowest capacity item to something of higher capacity until eventually the chassis becomes the limiting factor. Then it gets hard!
Most chassis used on late model Australia are manufactured by just a few manufacturers (many common vans use the same chassis.
The rating of these chassis are known (they are marked on the chassis), so no engineer calculations are required for them. Likewise, wheels, tyres, hitches etc all have known ratings, so the exercise is not usually a big one.
Sometimes, the ATM is already much lower than the lowest rated component, so it is just a paper exercise for the original manufacturer to increase the ATM.
Cheers,
Peter
mjt886 said
01:37 PM Sep 13, 2016
Hi Everyone,
I was just seeking some advice as I tried to call Jayco about increasing my ATM and the said they couldn't help me and that I have to take it to a mechanical engineer. I was just wondering if anyone else had this response. Cheers.
TheHeaths said
06:56 PM Sep 13, 2016
I also had the ATM increased on our Jayco van
The official position from Jayco is that they will not increase ATM or issue a new VIN plate once the van has left the factory. I had tried for some time with them to have that done.
I don't know how it was achieved, but Phil and I used the same dealer to buy our van, and the sales person arranged our increase when asked. I do not know if it was done with Jayco official approval, or how it was arranged, but I was pleased it was and our load allowance was also increased to 600 kg.
The vans were purchased in South Australia, and the sales person had sold both Phil and my van, so did know the units.
I don't know if the dealer who sold you your van would be able to help you, but if not, you would need to go the engineering route explained to you.
OutbackMK said
07:36 PM Sep 13, 2016
I requested a new VIN plate from Jayco with Tare added to it for rego purposes, they did the new plate but they use tamper proof screws and said it had to be done by a full dealer (St Marys in Sydney and not a licensed agent) and the new one was to be destroyed by them and signed off by two people. (Possibly for RTA compliance)
A few hoops but caravan re-birthing is not unheard off!
I could have made changes to ball weight however as axle group rating was 2000 that's where it stops for ATM.
Brian
PeterD said
09:53 AM Sep 14, 2016
Delta18 wrote:More crazy variable Australian Rules.
I have just done this same exercise but under WA rules I have to display the old and the new compliance plates side by side. I think to prove that the old plate is not being used elsewhere.
The manufacturers name will be on the old plate. What company name is on the new plate, is it the name of the certifier?
mjt886 said
05:05 PM Sep 15, 2016
Hey guys thanks for the responses I think I'll just go to an engineer and get it checked out.. It's crazy how little room they give you to play with sometimes.. Anyways see how I go. Got major leak issues in the roof to keep me busy in the meantime Cheers!!!
Hi all
I read (I think on this forum), that a manufacturer will increase the ATM of your van if your can show you have a vehicle that will comfortably and legally tow the increase.
I contacted Jayco yesterday and asked for a modest increase of our ATM to accommodate full water tanks etc.
I received a reply today that they will give me 600KGs payload ( a large increase) I have to provide evidence that I have destroyed the old compliance plate and they will send the new one.
Old compliance gave me 350KGs, by the time you put water and gas etc in you only have enough for a hanky or two. Im pretty chuffed with this outcome.
Be good and take care.
Well done Phil, it always pays to ask.
Aussie Paul.
More crazy variable Australian Rules.
I have just done this same exercise but under WA rules I have to display the old and the new compliance plates side by side. I think to prove that the old plate is not being used elsewhere.
dibs
fantastic service and all with a cheery helpful attitude.
so it seems it can be done.
frank
Not sure I can understand why WA would want both plates displayed, lets face it if the engineers of the manufacturer say it can go heavier then thats the end of it despite what the aristocrats come out with...
The only thing Jayco wanted was a photo of the old plate cut up...
Photos coming.
Whether or not an ATM can be increased, or not, is determined by the engineering of the van (brakes, wheels, tyres, chassis etc) and nothing to do with the tow vehicle.
Cheers,
Peter
Correct Peter, but they do stress that your vehicle must be capable of legally handling the upgrade.
In my case the ATM was 2660kg but the Axle Rating was 2900kg.
The ATM is now 2900kg.
Obviously the manufacturer uses the lower figure initially so more owners comply. Prados etc.
The difference is that in your case it was the manufacturer supplying the new plate. They are simply changing their plate over. With upgrades by certifying engineers both the manufacturers plate and their plate must be displayed. Nothing sinister about different states and different regs.
There is no legal requirement for the tug towing capacity to equal or exceed the ATM of the trailer.
It is quite legal to tow a trailer with 3.5T ATM with a tug with tow capacity of 2.5T PROVIDED the actual weight of the trailer at the time does not exceed 2.5T.
Cheers,
Peter
I took the van to an engineer who took his measurements then subjected them to a computer model. He commenced with a TARE of 2000kg. After doing all his calculations etc he produced an ATM capacity of 2500kg. I sent the report to Roma who issued a new compliance plate, then submitted the documents to VICROADS who issued a new Certificate showing a TARE of 2000kg and ATM of 2500KG. I tow the van with an NT 2011 Pajero. I ran all the information past our insurers (CIL) who were quite happy with the new compliance plate.
The conclusion is that if you want/need to change a compliance plate then seek the advice of a mechanical engineer. A few dollars spent here will prevent a lot of heartache down the track.
The one with the lowest capacity determines the ATM.
It may then be possible to upgrade the lowest capacity item to something of higher capacity until eventually the chassis becomes the limiting factor. Then it gets hard!
Most chassis used on late model Australia are manufactured by just a few manufacturers (many common vans use the same chassis.
The rating of these chassis are known (they are marked on the chassis), so no engineer calculations are required for them. Likewise, wheels, tyres, hitches etc all have known ratings, so the exercise is not usually a big one.
Sometimes, the ATM is already much lower than the lowest rated component, so it is just a paper exercise for the original manufacturer to increase the ATM.
Cheers,
Peter
The official position from Jayco is that they will not increase ATM or issue a new VIN plate once the van has left the factory. I had tried for some time with them to have that done.
I don't know how it was achieved, but Phil and I used the same dealer to buy our van, and the sales person arranged our increase when asked. I do not know if it was done with Jayco official approval, or how it was arranged, but I was pleased it was and our load allowance was also increased to 600 kg.
The vans were purchased in South Australia, and the sales person had sold both Phil and my van, so did know the units.
I don't know if the dealer who sold you your van would be able to help you, but if not, you would need to go the engineering route explained to you.
A few hoops but caravan re-birthing is not unheard off!
I could have made changes to ball weight however as axle group rating was 2000 that's where it stops for ATM.
Brian
The manufacturers name will be on the old plate. What company name is on the new plate, is it the name of the certifier?