Interesting topic going around at the moment & on other forums.
Grey water, when does it become grey water?
According to some research group our so called grey water does not become grey water untill it is stored in a holding tank for 24hrs min before it becomes toxic.
If the said water is dropped directly onto the ground , not held, it is still classed as being fresh.
Interesting .
(not my words)
JC.
jules47 said
08:11 PM Sep 21, 2014
Was reading of a new dump point being put in a small town, can't quite remember where, but think it was the Sunshine Coast - anyway the "blurb" was will be used by travellers for grey water, black water and hard waste? What is hard waste, isn't that what you put in the garbage bin? Can just see it now, someone pulls up, empties the grey from the tank, the blackwater from the cassette or whatever - then proceeds to throw his/her rubbish down the hole as well!!!!
Dougwe said
08:14 PM Sep 21, 2014
As I said last night JC, I wouldn't like to test that with the person with a big book and pen in hand ready to fine you.
I do agree with the theory though as it makes good sense really but the authorities don't work on sense
I am getting a 95lt grey water tank fitted to the new Den so will be covered both ways just in case.
Dougwe said
08:16 PM Sep 21, 2014
Hey Jules, I reckon the hard waste might be a bi product of a hard night perhaps
Delta18 said
08:39 PM Sep 21, 2014
Dougwe wrote:
Hey Jules, I reckon the hard waste might be a bi product of a hard night perhaps
Hard waste comes from eating too much cheese I reckon!
oldbobsbus said
08:48 PM Sep 21, 2014
Delta18 wrote:
Dougwe wrote:
Hey Jules, I reckon the hard waste might be a bi product of a hard night perhaps
Hard waste comes from eating too much cheese I reckon!
Hard waste come from A**holes to friggen lazy to put it in the bin where it belongs
PeterD said
12:43 AM Sep 22, 2014
Wrong change of classification. Grey water becomes black water when stored too long. If you have had it in your tanks for a couple of days be very careful where you release it.
Bryan said
08:21 AM Sep 22, 2014
PeterD wrote:
Wrong change of classification. Grey water becomes black water when stored too long. If you have had it in your tanks for a couple of days be very careful where you release it.
I guess now they need to explain the different shades of grey
KFT said
09:56 AM Sep 22, 2014
My wife told me there are 50 shades of grey!! LOL
I have not investigated this myself though.
frank
PeterD said
11:58 AM Sep 22, 2014
Bryan wrote:I guess now they need to explain the different shades of grey
Things seem to have changed. A year or two back you could get plenty of links from a Google search telling you that grey water becomes black after 24 hours. None of those links came up today. I was wondering if the authors of these papers were talking dysphemistically. The nearest I could find today is from this link
Freshly generated greywater is not as nasty as blackwater, but if it's not handled properly it can soon become so. Greywater decomposes at a much faster rate than blackwater and if stored for as little as 24 hours, the bacteria in it use up all the oxygen and the greywater becomes anaerobic and turns septic. After this point it is more like blackwater - stinky and a health hazard. In fact, many jurisdictions have strict regulations about disposal of greywater, some even require it to be treated as blackwater.
So even though it may not be technically black water it can become as bad as it. Also grey water is not the harmless substance that those who argue against the fitting of grey water tanks claim. There are plenty po info that explains this. Here are some links.
Those links advise of the inadvisability of using kitchen water for black water use. Kitchen water is a high percentage of our black water, 100% in my case.
-- Edited by PeterD on Monday 22nd of September 2014 12:00:24 PM
Aus-Kiwi said
12:01 PM Sep 22, 2014
Used undrinkable water.. Like Swan..
Reed said
10:44 AM Sep 23, 2014
Different protocols for grey water in different parts of US. Some places it is OK to dump dishwater on ground in National Parks and National Forest Lands but not if you have holding tanks (tent campers). In other places you can dump grey water through a hose. Dumping black water (toilet residue) will gain hefty fines anywhere.
Reed
Dougwe said
06:31 PM Sep 23, 2014
Never having the luxury ? of a grey water tank, is there anything I need to add to the tank to look after it ??
Just information I can store for when I get the new Den.
PeterD said
08:14 PM Sep 23, 2014
A lot depends upon how your system is plumbed. The simple systems do not have a water trap or Hepo Valve between the PC items and the tank. I only have a sink going straight into a tank. After a day or three a sewage smell comes from the sink. A dose of napisan substitute soon nobles the smell.
If you have a trap between your tank and the sink or shower you will not get any smell. You are likely to get a bit of a scum build up in the tank however. To help keep this to a minimum we will dose the tank before moving off to a place where we intend the tank (particularly so if we have not dosed the tank to eliminate odours.) A little maintenance like this can head off potential problems.
Bugger, the thread has now gone OT. Sorry.
-- Edited by PeterD on Tuesday 23rd of September 2014 08:15:58 PM
Moonraker said
11:21 PM Sep 24, 2014
Cant help thinking that grey water tanks are not the way to go.
It is report that if Grey water is left in the tank for just a short time like a day or two develops into nasty toxic liquid which needs disposal in a black water pump point. Which I bet most is not.
Disposal of grey water via hose directly into hedge rows or gardens away from direct camping areas (or sports grounds) where the plants can get a drink and the bacteria in the ground can deal with the grey water before it becomes badly toxic Or via portable containers where hoses are not long enough is the better option. Portable 40L grey water containers are about $80 with wheels and can be emptied once or twice a day with very little effort even to a pump point if available.
I totally agree that we should not make a soggy mess by letting grey water out straight onto the camp site ground but you dont need built-in tanks to stop this.
Just a thought!
Reed said
02:40 AM Sep 25, 2014
Our fifth wheel has 81 gallon (305 liter) fresh water, 40 gallon (151 l) grey water (sinks and shower) and 40 gallon (151 l) black water (toilet). The rig has outside shower set up with hot and cold water. We generally carry 2 to 30 gallons of fresh water in 6 gallon plastic jerrycans in pickup. We can go 4 weeks without draining black tank. After travel in Mexico and other places where toilet paper is not to be placed in toilet but into a basket (if you have had kids, well you had a basket to put the diapers), we adopted the method. This greatly reduces the volume of stuff that goes into black water and pretty much prevents clogging of drain valves.
We do put bacteria products (sold at RV shops) that break down the products in both the grey and black water tanks. Black water does remain nasty and grey water, even after a few weeks, does not have any particular shade. We do try to scrape/wipe plates etc before washing so that not much organic matter goes down into grey water tank. Such can change the parameters in the tank as the organic material decays and smells as rotting garbage will.
Pickup is 6.6 l extended cab diesel 4 x 4 (dualie) 2006 Chevie. 2006 is last year that handles 500 ppm sulfur diesel found in Mexico ($2.75 US/gallon). 4 x 4 is to get out or get going on sand/gravel and not for going (once stuck,well that is it). Pickup came with 35 gallon tank and we have installed a 50 gallon Transflow tank that automatically transfer fuel to main tank. This gives us a long range before fillups. We check "Gas Buddy" to determine fuel costs down the road and can save $.40 or more/gallon by selecting wisely.
As noted in our previous posts, we sold sticks and bricks and we basically have a house on wheels. We primarily boondock/bush camp/free camp. The places we visit have solitude, wildlife and interesting fellow boondockers. North America has a lot of great places to travel and camp from Alaska to Newfoundland, Baja and Guatemala. Should love to travel in Australia for six months.
Interesting topic going around at the moment & on other forums.
Grey water, when does it become grey water?
According to some research group our so called grey water does not become grey water untill it is stored in a holding tank for 24hrs min before it becomes toxic.
If the said water is dropped directly onto the ground , not held, it is still classed as being fresh.
Interesting .
(not my words)
JC.
As I said last night JC, I wouldn't like to test that with the person with a big book and pen in hand ready to fine you.
I do agree with the theory though as it makes good sense really but the authorities don't work on sense
I am getting a 95lt grey water tank fitted to the new Den so will be covered both ways just in case.
Hey Jules, I reckon the hard waste might be a bi product of a hard night perhaps
Hard waste comes from eating too much cheese I reckon!
Hard waste come from A**holes to friggen lazy to put it in the bin where it belongs
I guess now they need to explain the different shades of grey
I have not investigated this myself though.
frank
Things seem to have changed. A year or two back you could get plenty of links from a Google search telling you that grey water becomes black after 24 hours. None of those links came up today. I was wondering if the authors of these papers were talking dysphemistically. The nearest I could find today is from this link
So even though it may not be technically black water it can become as bad as it. Also grey water is not the harmless substance that those who argue against the fitting of grey water tanks claim. There are plenty po info that explains this. Here are some links.
http://www.yourhome.gov.au/water/wastewater-reuse - An Aust government web site.
http://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/green-science/gray-water-reclamation.htm - seven pages to read here.
http://www.savewater.com.au/how-to-save-water/in-the-garden/sustaining-gardens-in-dry-times/greywater
Those links advise of the inadvisability of using kitchen water for black water use. Kitchen water is a high percentage of our black water, 100% in my case.
-- Edited by PeterD on Monday 22nd of September 2014 12:00:24 PM
Reed
Just information I can store for when I get the new Den.
A lot depends upon how your system is plumbed. The simple systems do not have a water trap or Hepo Valve between the PC items and the tank. I only have a sink going straight into a tank. After a day or three a sewage smell comes from the sink. A dose of napisan substitute soon nobles the smell.
If you have a trap between your tank and the sink or shower you will not get any smell. You are likely to get a bit of a scum build up in the tank however. To help keep this to a minimum we will dose the tank before moving off to a place where we intend the tank (particularly so if we have not dosed the tank to eliminate odours.) A little maintenance like this can head off potential problems.
Bugger, the thread has now gone OT. Sorry.
-- Edited by PeterD on Tuesday 23rd of September 2014 08:15:58 PM
It is report that if Grey water is left in the tank for just a short time like a day or two develops into nasty toxic liquid which needs disposal in a black water pump point. Which I bet most is not.
Disposal of grey water via hose directly into hedge rows or gardens away from direct camping areas (or sports grounds) where the plants can get a drink and the bacteria in the ground can deal with the grey water before it becomes badly toxic Or via portable containers where hoses are not long enough is the better option. Portable 40L grey water containers are about $80 with wheels and can be emptied once or twice a day with very little effort even to a pump point if available.
I totally agree that we should not make a soggy mess by letting grey water out straight onto the camp site ground but you dont need built-in tanks to stop this.
Just a thought!
We do put bacteria products (sold at RV shops) that break down the products in both the grey and black water tanks. Black water does remain nasty and grey water, even after a few weeks, does not have any particular shade. We do try to scrape/wipe plates etc before washing so that not much organic matter goes down into grey water tank. Such can change the parameters in the tank as the organic material decays and smells as rotting garbage will.
Pickup is 6.6 l extended cab diesel 4 x 4 (dualie) 2006 Chevie. 2006 is last year that handles 500 ppm sulfur diesel found in Mexico ($2.75 US/gallon). 4 x 4 is to get out or get going on sand/gravel and not for going (once stuck,well that is it). Pickup came with 35 gallon tank and we have installed a 50 gallon Transflow tank that automatically transfer fuel to main tank. This gives us a long range before fillups. We check "Gas Buddy" to determine fuel costs down the road and can save $.40 or more/gallon by selecting wisely.
As noted in our previous posts, we sold sticks and bricks and we basically have a house on wheels. We primarily boondock/bush camp/free camp. The places we visit have solitude, wildlife and interesting fellow boondockers. North America has a lot of great places to travel and camp from Alaska to Newfoundland, Baja and Guatemala. Should love to travel in Australia for six months.
Reed and Elaine.