When I purchased my Toyota whizz bang it came with a 20 mtr 10 amp cable. It fits into the plug thing on the exterior of the van and plugs into the caravan park plugs also...never a problem.
If I should be using a 15 amp cable how come the 10 amp fits everywhere. Please don't say...It should fit it's dangerous etc. If I wasn't concerned I wouldn't be asking a question. Do I need 2 of those amphibian things one for each end. Or how do I fix the problem. I understand they are $250 each now. So that would mean $500.
Thank you
Robyn
PeterD said
12:02 AM Sep 3, 2014
countryroad wrote:
If I should be using a 15 amp cable how come the 10 amp fits everywhere.
If your camper is fitted with a 10 A power input you do not need a 15 A power lead. You only need a 10 A power lead and you do not need an Ampfibian. It is very unusual for your unit to be fitted with a 10 A inlet. What is the rating on the circuit breaker in your camper, 10 A or 15 A? Does one of your shorter 10 A leads fit the campers power input?
The only time you need an Ampfibian is if your camper has a 15 A input and you wish to connect to a 10 A power point.
-- Edited by PeterD on Wednesday 3rd of September 2014 12:07:40 AM
-- Edited by PeterD on Wednesday 3rd of September 2014 12:09:36 AM
Phil C said
10:32 AM Sep 3, 2014
Is the earth pin on the caravan socket large? If so its a 15 amp socket. A 15 amp lead (about 15 meters) would be wiser than a 10 amp. I agree with PeterD, check the breaker BUT the socket earth pin will give you the answer. If in doubt pake a photo of the socket (on the camper) and post it here, im sure you will get plenty of people telling you what it is.
I am of the opinion that an amphibian is a waste of money, I can make my own adaptor so why have 2 RCDs in the line?
Take care
oldtrack123 said
11:53 AM Sep 3, 2014
HI Robin It is quite OK for your wiz bang to be fitted with a 10A inlet socket & to use a standard 10A lead with 10A plug & socket even from a 15A supply socket, PROVIDED the van is fitted with 10A overload circuit breaker.
The STANDARDS approve such an arrangement' by agreement between the maker & purchaser PeterQ
-- Edited by oldtrack123 on Wednesday 3rd of September 2014 12:03:10 PM
oldtrack123 said
12:01 PM Sep 3, 2014
Phil C wrote:
I am of the opinion that an amphibian is a waste of money, I can make my own adaptor so why have 2 RCDs in the line?
Take care
Hi Phil
Your home made adaptor will not be approved for sale
I doubt very much that it would meet ALL the requirements of the relevant Standards.
THe original Ampfibian only had an inline OLCB & THAT is the key requirement [to limit the current to 10A when supplied from a 15A outlet]
The STANDARDS changed & NOW require an RCD as well
PeterQ
Phil C said
12:20 PM Sep 3, 2014
Thanks Peter, I am aware of that. However my caravan is fitted with all the right gear plus a few bits I added for further safety.
Frankly I object to manufacturers producing expensive ($200 + is obscene) items and insisting they will fill the gap for home storage of caravans when a 10A lead will do the job irrespective of 10 or 15A sockets
BTW Im fully qualified to make these leads despite NEVER having to use it, and would never attempt to sell one.
I am also aware that GPOs (according to AS3000) should have a min of 2.5mm square TPS and a min of 16A breaker, now im not a caravan electrician however I do wonder if one would be fitted with a 10A service.. just an afterthought. Please feel free to correct that if I am wrong. Even AS 3001 which deals with mobile installations calls for 16A by referring to AS3000???
To cut this short, I am fully aware that the dongle I have made may not be legal, however one day it may get me out of trouble and I see no safety issues with it.
-- Edited by Phil C on Wednesday 3rd of September 2014 12:23:34 PM
-- Edited by Phil C on Wednesday 3rd of September 2014 01:00:36 PM
oldtrack123 said
12:57 PM Sep 3, 2014
Phil C wrote:
Thanks Peter, I am aware of that. However my caravan is fitted with all the right gear plus a few bits I added for further safety.
Frankly I object to manufacturers producing expensive ($200 + is obscene) items and insisting they will fill the gap for home storage of caravans when a 10A lead will do the job irrespective of 10 or 15A sockets
BTW Im fully qualified to make these leads despite NEVER having to use it, and would never attempt to sell one.
- Edited by Phil C on Wednesday 3rd of September 2014 12:23:34 PM
Hi Phil
Just so others will not be led astray & think there is not a problem & the requirements of the Standards are bu*##it
Perhaps you should expand on the above
The Ampfibian has to meet stringent requirements to recieve approval under the Standards.
Are you aware of what ALL those requirements are?
PeterQ
Phil C said
01:21 PM Sep 3, 2014
I am aware that the standards call for rcd and breaker/current limiting device. My argument is that standards are industry driven (including manufacturers) and often reflect what is best for them not us as end users and sparkies.
When I first became a sparky the standard was a thin book "Australian Wiring Rules" its main concern was earthing and correct installations. I acknowledge that technology has changed, however in looking at the standards especially for caravans the manufacturers have lobbied hard to have their products at the top of the list.
I fail to see why a 2.5mm orange circular cable with a 10A male and 15A female can be so out of standard and illegal, other than the standard. It connects to a sub main circuit which has at least a 15A fuse, most vans I have seen have an RCD or a RCBO. So my point is, why spend $200 + on an item that has already been covered in the van and house?
I would never suggest a novice do this, however while Bunnings sell TPS, GPOs and Plug ends to the public, it makes our trade look silly and us look like pedantic money grabbers and wont stop the public from trying unsafe practices.
For the first time EVER I was asked for my "A" licence when I purchased a breaker box from L and H the other day, I produced an out of date licence and told the sales person I was retired, Ive been in this trade since I was 17... something wrong I think mate. Anyway I appreciate the debate and advise people NOT to make the mistake of thinking electrical is easy.. ITS DEADLY!!!!
Peter I do get fired up by some regulator stupidity, that reminds me I have a few mates in the OTR and have asked them about the dongle, the best answer I got was "technically its OK and shouldnt cause any problems, but not legal" I rest my case.
Cheers
oldtrack123 said
01:57 PM Sep 3, 2014
Phil C wrote:
[1]I am aware that the standards call for rcd and breaker/current limiting device. My argument is that standards are industry driven (including manufacturers) and often reflect what is best for them not us as end users and sparkies.
[2]When I first became a sparky the standard was a thin book "Australian Wiring Rules" its main concern was earthing and correct installations. I acknowledge that technology has changed, however in looking at the standards especially for caravans the manufacturers have lobbied hard to have their products at the top of the list.
[3]I fail to see why a 2.5mm orange circular cable with a 10A male and 15A female can be so out of standard and illegal, other than the standard. It connects to a sub main circuit which has at least a 15A fuse, most vans I have seen have an RCD or a RCBO. So my point is, why spend $200 + on an item that has already been covered in the van and house?
[4]I would never suggest a novice do this, however while Bunnings sell TPS, GPOs and Plug ends to the public, it makes our trade look silly and us look like pedantic money grabbers and wont stop the public from trying unsafe practices.
[5]For the first time EVER I was asked for my "A" licence when I purchased a breaker box from L and H the other day, I produced an out of date licence and told the sales person I was retired, Ive been in this trade since I was 17... something wrong I think mate. Anyway I appreciate the debate and advise people NOT to make the mistake of thinking electrical is easy.. ITS DEADLY!!!!
Peter I do get fired up by some regulator stupidity, that reminds me I have a few mates in the OTR and have asked them about the dongle, the best answer I got was "technically its OK and shouldnt cause any problems, but not legal" I rest my case.
Cheers
HI Phil
May I suggest you have a good think about the Standards & the reasoning that goes into them
What we, as electicians do, KNOWING the risks & how to avoid them is a totally diferent situation to giving such advice on an open forum
Now:
[1]I have a totally different view
The Standards are generally a result of past incidents or foreseeable problems
I have yet to read an Elect Standard were I could not see the logic behind it
They may not always serve the best interests of SOME sparkies, but Safety is the overiding factor in most
[2] The First version, SA 1 "wiring rules 'around 1934' was a very thin book
Even when I started my apprentice ship in 1948 it had only encreased in size by about 300%
BUT it developed & continues to develop as new equipment & situations come to light
I fail to make sense of the comment regarding StandardS & caravans
AS /NZS 3001 covers. :"Transportable Structures & their power supplies"
it has ADDITIONAL requirements to AS 3000 "Wiring rules "to cover the specific conditions under which 'Transportable structure" are used just as the are specific Standards coverinf Show grounds .Construction sites , mining, ETC
Each Standard is drawn up for those SPECIFIC situations
[3]
May I suggest you open your mind & have a loong clear think about that statement
As an electician, the possible consequence of not following the requirements of AS/NZS 3199 should be obvious.
[4] I could not agrre more but in QLD at least Bunnings a Similar stores must now have a warning about DIYing with such gear
[5] Good ON L&H
It is to be hoped that more become more responsable.
But the internet is a far bigger problem.
PeterQ
Phil C said
02:10 PM Sep 3, 2014
I agree with every word you have said Peter, I still pose the question, OTHER than being out of standard what is technically wrong with my dongle?
Im afraid I have been to meetings of Australian standards where lawyers, manufacturers, training organisations (such as the one I represented), OTR, government, ITABs etc were part of the list. These folks discussed what new items and what items needed modification in the standards. I was mortified to see the manufacturers and lawyers had the biggest voice. Yes standards are meant to protect us and 99.9% of them do.
I am a safe worker but sometimes these things get under my skin and cause issues. Im very pleased to be out of the trade now, its getting way too hard. 240V is still 240V and will not change its dangerous nature.
Cheers
jetj said
02:48 PM Sep 3, 2014
Hi Robyn,
Just get someone to have a quick look for you to make sure it's ok. A MH dealer or electrician could probably ease your concerns. Unlikely you need the amphibians.
oldtrack123 said
03:22 PM Sep 3, 2014
jetj wrote:
Hi Robyn,
Just get someone to have a quick look for you to make sure it's ok. A MH dealer or electrician could probably ease your concerns. Unlikely you need the amphibians.
Hi
I would not put too much faith in what DEALER says
PeterQ
Aus-Kiwi said
10:13 AM Sep 12, 2014
Um ? Why does the amperage have anything to do with why it should have RCD fitted? They should be on EVERY circuit IMO .. Not one RCD protecting the whole vehicle.. Yes the amphibian has circuit breaker ... Which would be used as current limiting to protect the cable..
PeterD said
11:15 AM Sep 12, 2014
Aus-Kiwi wrote:
Um ? Why does the amperage have anything to do with why it should have RCD fitted?
Yes every portable/mobile dwelling needs an RCD. Where the amperage comes in is the RCD is usually combined with an over current circuit breaker. The maximum current rating of the input connector determines the rating of the breaker section of the combined unit.
If your camper is fitted with a 10 A power input you do not need a 15 A power lead. You only need a 10 A power lead and you do not need an Ampfibian. It is very unusual for your unit to be fitted with a 10 A inlet. What is the rating on the circuit breaker in your camper, 10 A or 15 A? Does one of your shorter 10 A leads fit the campers power input?
The only time you need an Ampfibian is if your camper has a 15 A input and you wish to connect to a 10 A power point.
-- Edited by PeterD on Wednesday 3rd of September 2014 12:07:40 AM
-- Edited by PeterD on Wednesday 3rd of September 2014 12:09:36 AM
I am of the opinion that an amphibian is a waste of money, I can make my own adaptor so why have 2 RCDs in the line?
Take care
HI Robin
It is quite OK for your wiz bang to be fitted with a 10A inlet socket & to use a standard 10A lead with 10A plug & socket even from a 15A supply socket, PROVIDED the van is fitted with 10A overload circuit breaker.
The STANDARDS approve such an arrangement' by agreement between the maker & purchaser
PeterQ
-- Edited by oldtrack123 on Wednesday 3rd of September 2014 12:03:10 PM
Hi Phil
Your home made adaptor will not be approved for sale
I doubt very much that it would meet ALL the requirements of the relevant Standards.
THe original Ampfibian only had an inline OLCB & THAT is the key requirement [to limit the current to 10A when supplied from a 15A outlet]
The STANDARDS changed & NOW require an RCD as well
PeterQ
Thanks Peter, I am aware of that. However my caravan is fitted with all the right gear plus a few bits I added for further safety.
items and insisting they will fill the gap for home storage of caravans when a 10A lead will do the job irrespective of 10 or 15A sockets
Frankly I object to manufacturers producing expensive ($200 + is obscene)
BTW Im fully qualified to make these leads despite NEVER having to use it, and would never attempt to sell one.
I am also aware that GPOs (according to AS3000) should have a min of 2.5mm square TPS and a min of 16A breaker, now im not a caravan electrician however I do wonder if one would be fitted with a 10A service.. just an afterthought. Please feel free to correct that if I am wrong. Even AS 3001 which deals with mobile installations calls for 16A by referring to AS3000???
To cut this short, I am fully aware that the dongle I have made may not be legal, however one day it may get me out of trouble and I see no safety issues with it.
-- Edited by Phil C on Wednesday 3rd of September 2014 12:23:34 PM
-- Edited by Phil C on Wednesday 3rd of September 2014 01:00:36 PM
Hi Phil
Just so others will not be led astray & think there is not a problem & the requirements of the Standards are bu*##it
Perhaps you should expand on the above
The Ampfibian has to meet stringent requirements to recieve approval under the Standards.
Are you aware of what ALL those requirements are?
PeterQ
When I first became a sparky the standard was a thin book "Australian Wiring Rules" its main concern was earthing and correct installations. I acknowledge that technology has changed, however in looking at the standards especially for caravans the manufacturers have lobbied hard to have their products at the top of the list.
I fail to see why a 2.5mm orange circular cable with a 10A male and 15A female can be so out of standard and illegal, other than the standard. It connects to a sub main circuit which has at least a 15A fuse, most vans I have seen have an RCD or a RCBO. So my point is, why spend $200 + on an item that has already been covered in the van and house?
I would never suggest a novice do this, however while Bunnings sell TPS, GPOs and Plug ends to the public, it makes our trade look silly and us look like pedantic money grabbers and wont stop the public from trying unsafe practices.
For the first time EVER I was asked for my "A" licence when I purchased a breaker box from L and H the other day, I produced an out of date licence and told the sales person I was retired, Ive been in this trade since I was 17... something wrong I think mate. Anyway I appreciate the debate and advise people NOT to make the mistake of thinking electrical is easy.. ITS DEADLY!!!!
Peter I do get fired up by some regulator stupidity, that reminds me I have a few mates in the OTR and have asked them about the dongle, the best answer I got was "technically its OK and shouldnt cause any problems, but not legal" I rest my case.
Cheers
HI Phil
May I suggest you have a good think about the Standards & the reasoning that goes into them
What we, as electicians do, KNOWING the risks & how to avoid them is a totally diferent situation to giving such advice on an open forum
Now:
[1]I have a totally different view
The Standards are generally a result of past incidents or foreseeable problems
I have yet to read an Elect Standard were I could not see the logic behind it
They may not always serve the best interests of SOME sparkies, but Safety is the overiding factor in most
[2] The First version, SA 1 "wiring rules 'around 1934' was a very thin book
Even when I started my apprentice ship in 1948 it had only encreased in size by about 300%
BUT it developed & continues to develop as new equipment & situations come to light
I fail to make sense of the comment regarding StandardS & caravans
AS /NZS 3001 covers. :"Transportable Structures & their power supplies"
it has ADDITIONAL requirements to AS 3000 "Wiring rules "to cover the specific conditions under which 'Transportable structure" are used just as the are specific Standards coverinf Show grounds .Construction sites , mining, ETC
Each Standard is drawn up for those SPECIFIC situations
[3]
May I suggest you open your mind & have a loong clear think about that statement
As an electician, the possible consequence of not following the requirements of AS/NZS 3199 should be obvious.
[4] I could not agrre more but in QLD at least Bunnings a Similar stores must now have a warning about DIYing with such gear
[5] Good ON L&H
It is to be hoped that more become more responsable.
But the internet is a far bigger problem.
PeterQ
Im afraid I have been to meetings of Australian standards where lawyers, manufacturers, training organisations (such as the one I represented), OTR, government, ITABs etc were part of the list. These folks discussed what new items and what items needed modification in the standards. I was mortified to see the manufacturers and lawyers had the biggest voice. Yes standards are meant to protect us and 99.9% of them do.
I am a safe worker but sometimes these things get under my skin and cause issues. Im very pleased to be out of the trade now, its getting way too hard. 240V is still 240V and will not change its dangerous nature.
Cheers
Hi Robyn,
Just get someone to have a quick look for you to make sure it's ok. A MH dealer or electrician could probably ease your concerns. Unlikely you need the amphibians.
Hi
I would not put too much faith in what DEALER says
PeterQ
Yes every portable/mobile dwelling needs an RCD. Where the amperage comes in is the RCD is usually combined with an over current circuit breaker. The maximum current rating of the input connector determines the rating of the breaker section of the combined unit.