I know this subject has been done to death,my brother inlaw has a Coromal pop top van 16ft he says his model van came out with one chain,he has added onother chain, my question is the chains are joined to the a frame with a loop thing with a thread and nut is this legal?
Lance C
KeenTravellers said
10:35 AM Aug 23, 2014
Lance
Your Right - Done to death...If you do a search above on "Shackles" you will see many entries.
However, Chains (plural) have to be stamped and rated and then crossed when connected to the tow tug.
They are fixed to the tow tug by a Rated coupling - usually welded at the Frame end and Rated a D Shackle at the Tug Tow point
connected to a Rated tow bar for the weight of your van etc.
If you do the search - you will see all web links to all the ADRs (Aust Design Rules) concerning this topic.
The bottom line is - if one piece of that equipment used - is not as per the rating or design intended - your insurance will not cover you. Zip.
Rated Shackles cost $4.00 - Rated Chains not much more... Is it really worth using inferior equipment.. or "peace of mind" over the lot.
its a no brainer
Cheers
KT
Olley46 said
02:48 PM Aug 23, 2014
The question I asked was the loop thingies with the thread and nut legal,I know about chains and D shackles.
lance C
Plendo said
03:16 PM Aug 23, 2014
Hi Lance, when I researched this last week I found that chains fitted to a trailer under 3.5 tons must be welded to the drawbar of the trailer, with the weld covering at least 50% of the link.
Interestingly on trailers over 3.5 tons the chain must not be welded, go figure.
D and D said
04:33 PM Aug 23, 2014
Olley46 wrote:
The question I asked was the loop thingies with the thread and nut legal,I know about chains and D shackles.
lance C
Lance, perhaps you could include a pic because I for one have no idea what a "loop thingy"is.
PJK said
09:15 PM Aug 23, 2014
I think what you are describing is a type of carbiner joint that rock climbers use.
If that is correct, they definitely are not legal in this application.
(Bugga, tried to post a photo or link, but obviously not enough computer nouse.)
Peter
PJK
03_troopy said
11:17 PM Aug 23, 2014
Is it one of these? If so it's called a maillon, also known as a Quicklink.
Guys given that it is the attachment to the "A Frame", I was thinking the thing with the loop, screw, and nut was an eye bolt, which would definitely not be legal, has to be welded.
hort1 said
05:26 AM Aug 24, 2014
Hi All I see in the first post of this thread that it states that the chains must be crossed is that correct ? as I tow with them parallel with each other so obviously wrong.
Cheers Warwick
turbopete said
08:45 AM Aug 24, 2014
I think that if the chains are crossed over ,,if the trailer breaks loose the crossed chains tend to prevent the loose trailer from wobbling all over the road,i will stand corrected if anyone has more specific knowledge
Plendo said
09:48 AM Aug 24, 2014
Crossing the chains, serves two purposes:
Firstly it allows you to run shorter chains, as you do not need so much length to compensate for turns.
and secondly if the primary connection is lost (broken tow ball for example), crossed chains centralise the drawbar more.
justcruisin01 said
10:12 AM Aug 24, 2014
Plendo wrote:
Hi Lance, when I researched this last week I found that chains fitted to a trailer under 3.5 tons must be welded to the drawbar of the trailer, with the weld covering at least 50% of the link.
Interestingly on trailers over 3.5 tons the chain must not be welded, go figure.
Once you weld rated chain you destroy the construction of the chain quality. INFO per engineering supplies.
Method used is two lugs per chain end welded side by side with a rated pin to the tow bar & a-fram. no shackles used as the end chain link is inserted between the two lugs with the pin inserted through the lugs & chain , retained by a spring clip.
One question out of all this is what about the older vans that do not have rated chains fitted; are we expected to replace all of these chains because having to use a rated to weight shackle does not prove a lot when they only used a gal chain, the weak link.?
Bit like saying fit air bags, computers etc the vintage cars.
JC.
Olley46 said
04:05 PM Aug 24, 2014
03_troopy wrote:
Is it one of these? If so it's called a maillon, also known as a Quicklink.
Thanks to everyone that has helped,03troopy has hit the nail on the head,this is what the bil has on his caravan,he has two welded single chain links then two of these maillon quick links then the two chains joined with d shackles at the 4WD are they legal,thanks so mutch everyone.
Lance C
Plendo said
05:22 PM Aug 24, 2014
With regard to older vans fitted with non rated chains, it used to be very difficult and expensive to get rated chains, thus the police used to look the other way as long as the trailer had substantial looking chains.
Recently rated chains have become readily available, and cheap. I believe the police are now taking the position that it would be relatively trivial and cheap to have non rated chains replaced, thus they are inspecting chains, and if a van is newer than the relevant ADR, then it would be defected if it did not have rated chains.
I believe there is a report to this effect from WA, but have not found it yet.
KeenTravellers said
06:03 PM Aug 24, 2014
Your Right Plendo
Vans built prior to the ADR changes are "requested" or "recommended" to have a rated connection linkage. ie ...rated chains and rated shackles etc. Vans built after the ADR change, not using rated connection linkage, are classed as a defect. 2009- 2010 I think. Cheers
KT
Plendo said
07:16 PM Aug 24, 2014
Hi KT, your memory serves you well, it is ADR62, effective from the 5th of April 2010.
Plendo said
07:21 PM Aug 24, 2014
I found an official document relating to the topic, here is the link:
trailers over 2.5 tonnes and not exceeding 3.5 tonnes ATM must have two safety chains of designation of 3500 kg complying with Australian Standard AS 4177.4-1994
Cheers
-- Edited by KeenTravellers on Sunday 24th of August 2014 07:50:05 PM
D and D said
08:48 PM Aug 24, 2014
Lance, I seriously doubt that the arrangement you describe would be legally compliant. My understanding is that the chain(s) must be welded to the drawbar of the van (trailer) with 50% of the link length being welded and the remaining chain is to be continuous and attached to the towing vehicle with a rated shackle. Irrespective of the legalities, I wouldn't be trusting a quicklink to secure my van particulary given the relatively low cost of getting a proper chain fitted properly.
Aus-Kiwi said
09:41 PM Aug 24, 2014
That quick link is NOT SWL compliant ! Don't use them! We have had then open up as line worker.. I can't see them holding a van of tonnage ! Let alone some shock loading ! I have recently fitted chains to an old car trailer that was put through inspection .. I used large chains with bolt and welded chain to draw bar . As close to front as possible to avoid large changes on chain length when turning .
PeterD said
11:47 PM Aug 24, 2014
D and D wrote:
My understanding is that the chain(s) must be welded to the drawbar of the van (trailer) with 50% of the link length being welded and the remaining chain is to be continuous and attached to the towing vehicle with a rated shackle.
The current revision (R5) does not specify how to attach the chain. The previous revision (R4) states:
"For trailers up to 3.5 tonnes ATM, the safety chain attachment can be by welding. The weld must extend around 50% of the circumference of the link and the adjoining link must have free movement."
The salient bit is "can be by welding."
It also states:
"For trailers over 3.5 tonnes ATM safety chain attachment must not involve welding or deformation of the chain. Suitable pin-lock couplings should be used."
Also in answer to the device in the OP, VSB-01 R4 states
"The chain must be permanently attached to the trailer, shackles are not permitted."
I believe the maillon would looked upon in the same manner.
Mike C said
07:32 AM Aug 25, 2014
I wonder where flat towed cars fit with this?
I have safety cables (no chains) connected to the car and Motor Home with the quick link type devices listed above. All rated at 6000lbs and as supplied by Roadmaster on a 1.8ton Car fitted with a breakaway braking system and electronic braking system (invisibrake)
I know this subject has been done to death,my brother inlaw has a Coromal pop top van 16ft he says his model van came out with one chain,he has added onother chain, my question is the chains are joined to the a frame with a loop thing with a thread and nut is this legal?
Lance C
Your Right - Done to death...If you do a search above on "Shackles" you will see many entries.
However, Chains (plural) have to be stamped and rated and then crossed when connected to the tow tug.
They are fixed to the tow tug by a Rated coupling - usually welded at the Frame end and Rated a D Shackle at the Tug Tow point
connected to a Rated tow bar for the weight of your van etc.
If you do the search - you will see all web links to all the ADRs (Aust Design Rules) concerning this topic.
The bottom line is - if one piece of that equipment used - is not as per the rating or design intended - your insurance will not cover you. Zip.
Rated Shackles cost $4.00 - Rated Chains not much more... Is it really worth using inferior equipment.. or "peace of mind" over the lot.
its a no brainer
Cheers
KT
The question I asked was the loop thingies with the thread and nut legal,I know about chains and D shackles.
lance C
Hi Lance, when I researched this last week I found that chains fitted to a trailer under 3.5 tons must be welded to the drawbar of the trailer, with the weld covering at least 50% of the link.
Interestingly on trailers over 3.5 tons the chain must not be welded, go figure.
Lance, perhaps you could include a pic because I for one have no idea what a "loop thingy"is.
If that is correct, they definitely are not legal in this application.
(Bugga, tried to post a photo or link, but obviously not enough computer nouse.)
Peter
PJK
Is it one of these?
If so it's called a maillon, also known as a Quicklink.
Guys given that it is the attachment to the "A Frame", I was thinking the thing with the loop, screw, and nut was an eye bolt, which would definitely not be legal, has to be welded.
Cheers Warwick
I think that if the chains are crossed over ,,if the trailer breaks loose the crossed chains tend to prevent the loose trailer from wobbling all over the road,i will stand corrected if anyone has more specific knowledge
Crossing the chains, serves two purposes:
Firstly it allows you to run shorter chains, as you do not need so much length to compensate for turns.
and secondly if the primary connection is lost (broken tow ball for example), crossed chains centralise the drawbar more.
Once you weld rated chain you destroy the construction of the chain quality. INFO per engineering supplies.
Method used is two lugs per chain end welded side by side with a rated pin to the tow bar & a-fram. no shackles used as the end chain link is inserted between the two lugs with the pin inserted through the lugs & chain , retained by a spring clip.
One question out of all this is what about the older vans that do not have rated chains fitted; are we expected to replace all of these chains because having to use a rated to weight shackle does not prove a lot when they only used a gal chain, the weak link.?
Bit like saying fit air bags, computers etc the vintage cars.
JC.
Thanks to everyone that has helped,03troopy has hit the nail on the head,this is what the bil has on his caravan,he has two welded single chain links then two of these maillon quick links then the two chains joined with d shackles at the 4WD are they legal,thanks so mutch everyone.
Lance C
With regard to older vans fitted with non rated chains, it used to be very difficult and expensive to get rated chains, thus the police used to look the other way as long as the trailer had substantial looking chains.
Recently rated chains have become readily available, and cheap. I believe the police are now taking the position that it would be relatively trivial and cheap to have non rated chains replaced, thus they are inspecting chains, and if a van is newer than the relevant ADR, then it would be defected if it did not have rated chains.
I believe there is a report to this effect from WA, but have not found it yet.
Your Right Plendo
Vans built prior to the ADR changes are "requested" or "recommended" to have a rated connection linkage.
ie ...rated chains and rated shackles etc.
Vans built after the ADR change, not using rated connection linkage, are classed as a defect.
2009- 2010 I think.
Cheers
KT
Hi KT, your memory serves you well, it is ADR62, effective from the 5th of April 2010.
I found an official document relating to the topic, here is the link:
http://www.transport.nt.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0007/19645/vib13.pdf
I tried to copy the relevant sections, but it did not work very well, so just refer to sections 6 & 7.
Hey Plendo
The link you had was NT
Here is the Qld Transport PDF
http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/Safety/Vehicle-standards-and-modifications/Loads-and-towing/Safe-towing.aspx
Page 7 & Page 8
trailers over 2.5 tonnes and not exceeding 3.5 tonnes ATM must have two safety chains of
designation of 3500 kg complying with Australian Standard AS 4177.4-1994
Cheers
-- Edited by KeenTravellers on Sunday 24th of August 2014 07:50:05 PM
The current revision (R5) does not specify how to attach the chain. The previous revision (R4) states:
"For trailers up to 3.5 tonnes ATM, the safety chain attachment can be by welding. The weld
must extend around 50% of the circumference of the link and the adjoining link must have free
movement."
The salient bit is "can be by welding."
It also states:
"For trailers over 3.5 tonnes ATM safety chain attachment must not involve welding or
deformation of the chain. Suitable pin-lock couplings should be used."
Also in answer to the device in the OP, VSB-01 R4 states
"The chain must be permanently attached to the trailer, shackles are not permitted."
I believe the maillon would looked upon in the same manner.
I wonder where flat towed cars fit with this?
I have safety cables (no chains) connected to the car and Motor Home with the quick link type devices listed above.
All rated at 6000lbs and as supplied by Roadmaster on a 1.8ton Car fitted with a breakaway braking system and electronic braking system (invisibrake)
http://roadmasterinc.com/products/towbars/falcon2.html
When towed the car becomes a trailer but cant see anyone permanently attaching chains to the front of their Toad?
Cheers
Mike