hello everyone, my whinge for Monday is how do u c behind when u don't have extended mirrors when towing u'r van, I drove 560 odd ks today out to work and came across a lot of caravans and couldn't believe how many were driving along at 80 - 90 kph without mirrors and not worried about what was going on behind them, long lines of cars and trucks. I'm hitting the rd next year still waiting on van but already have my mirrors I like to know what's going on behind so I can move over where possible to let people past. One wonders why caravaners are getting abused so much. And reversing cameras are for that reversing u can't see anything once it pulls out beside u. Ok that's all. 

Hope everyone had a good Monday and for those traveling around I'm jealous . 

peter. 

Hi Peter,

I have just driven 560ks with the van on the back, down the Pacific Highway, through part of Sydney, then on down the Hume (OMG it is cold down here). Given the different types of driving I have done today, I would not have been without either my mirrors OR my REAR VIEW Camera for any type of driving.

The camera gives me a good view of what is behind me, and its field of view is wide enough to show me where they are going. 

The mirrors are invaluable, and essential to understand what is in the lanes beside you. They could be adjusted to give more of a rear view, but with teh camera in play it makes more sense to use them to watch the side lanes.

I can not understand how anyone could possibly imagine that they understand what is happening without a good view of what is around them. 

As a truckie this is one of my pet hates. it causes alot of bad blood between road users.

Anyone caught towing a van without the correct mirrors should be grounded andnot alowed to move the van untill they have a set of mirrors fitted.

I don't care where they are when they get caught.

Rant over.

Cheers

The HAts 

KeenTravellers wrote:

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I agree Plendo
I agree rear view from the drivers seat is paramount.
I wouldnt start the tug when hooked up - if I couldnt see behind it.

I have a Polaris Rear view camera set with 3 Cams.
2 rear view cams which when hooked to the van - gives me 2 views - One driving - One reversing looking down.
When Im driving - I can clear see with the flash of my eyes - the wide view of 3 lanes - (if Im driving in the centre lane).
Perfect with 7" dash screen.
When I back up - change to looking down view - to see how close or any obstacles, kids or tree stumps etc.
Also one cam is on the back of the tug - for when I hookup. Makes it all so easy. But I still like to finally check in the mirrors.

Also I have Clearview Mirrors which when extend - gives me both sides dual views - (2 mirrors in each)
One Wide (next lane close) and the other is the Next lanes further back. I wouldnt be without them.

I cant understand anyone trying to drive with a van in tow - without decent mirrors to look back past the van at least.
How they see "whats behind them" is beyond me. I thought it was LAW anyway,
ie When in tow, have mirrors wide enough - to view past the extended vehicle sides.
I might be wrong
Cheers
KT

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 I agree with the general sentiment ... wouldn't be without good rear view mirrors.

My old, much modified, Ocra? clip ons are reaching the end of their useful life after 15 years & are about to be replaced.  I have locating screws on the home made extended arms on the mirrors to ensure that they are correctly adjusted & stay there. As well I have stabiliser brackets at around 45 degrees from the mirrors to the side window wind defelector fixing screws.  Holds the set up rigid.

Can't justify the expense of Clearview on the old Patrol so will have to look around.

I had my first experience with rear view cameras with my new Mazda 3 (town car) reversing camera.  Fantastic, absolutely love them.

I'll be looking to add a rear view camera to my set up.

My next action after sending this will be to look at the Polaris 7" screen set up.  

Thanks KT!

oldboar wrote:

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Totally agree. Those that think they can do without mirrors are not only breaking the law but bloody idiots as well. My other pet hate, also illegal is the clowns that leave the towing mirrors extended when driving without the van.

Darrell

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 And they are also the ones who cause truckies to jump on the CB and say 'F*&$ing caravan'. Not to mention the bad reputation for the rest of us..
Larry

Dougwe wrote:

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When I get the new Den I will have a camera on the back of the Tug and one or two on the back of the Den. I will more than likely have clear View Mirrors fitted too. For under $2,000 as well as the Den I can then see where I have been as well as going.

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         i am going the same way with clear view mirrors and two camera on back of van.   being a 5th wheeler i don't thing i need a cam on the tug.

Good rear-vision is essential .. I agree with all that's been said even though our choices may slightly differ ..

You're right Doug .. if you can see effectively with your current setup, then why change if there is no need. The choice of Clearview mirrors are excellent (as you saw) and many here use them, and I wouldn't be without them. I have the (2) cameras .. one on the back of the Van which is concentrated on the immediate area behind the van so that when reversing I hope to avoid any major obstacles like humans .. trees .. and bad terrain like stationary vehicles etc .. I use it primarily for reversing !

The tug has one showing from behind the towball and clearly covers down the rear .. for general use when not attached to the Van .. but very handy when connecting up to the Van.

Being aware of the height of your "outfit" at all times is so important too .. !

"Those that think they can do without mirrors are not only breaking the law but bloody idiots as well"

You need to look up the legislation before making such comments

I am not required to have towing mirrors  as I can see clearly down each side of my coromal pop top with the standard mirrors (doesn't make me an idiot!)

I also use a rear view camera on the rear of my van to see clearly directly behind the van which no mirror will do

As an extra and I haven't checked on it but Im told rear view camera screens if can be viewed by the driver are illegal particularly in Victoria

And people who leave the towing mirrors on when not towing are also breaking the law

(not allowed to protrude more than 150mm from the profile of the vehicle)

-- Edited by snapper49 on Wednesday 13th of August 2014 08:25:35 PM

-- Edited by snapper49 on Wednesday 13th of August 2014 08:26:14 PM

-- Edited by snapper49 on Wednesday 13th of August 2014 08:32:34 PM

-- Edited by snapper49 on Wednesday 13th of August 2014 08:38:20 PM

-- Edited by snapper49 on Wednesday 13th of August 2014 08:40:03 PM

Ah, but I do know the legislation. Provided your van & tug are as shown in your avatar then I'd be very curious how mirrors not permitted to extend more than 150mm either side of a 6ft vehicle can clearly indicate down either side of a 8ft wide van. In effect you're stating 7ft or thereabouts is wider than 8ft. I think I'll stick with my earlier statement. By the way, thanks for agreeing with my statement re towing mirrors fitted when not towing. Bit surprised you didn't argue about that as well.

Darrell

Hi Snapper49, while I do not doubt what you say, I would like to research the actual road rules that these requirements are based on (being a Victorian it directly affects me).

Working through the Vic Roads site there is a clear statement that any vehicle designed to carry commercial goods, or where the rear view of the internal mirror is obstructed are required to have additional external mirrors. 

From this it looks as if the requirement for towing mirrors only exists where the internal mirror is obstructed. It is however stated in a pdf about towing vehicle requirements, it is not in a stated road rule that I have been able to find.

I would appreciate it if you could point me in the right direction to find the facts behind the statements you make around towing mirrors and electronic screens used to provide a rear view.

This may be of some assistance here.

EXTRACT FROM NATIONAL ROAD RULES 2008 - REG 297
297 Driver to have proper control of a vehicle etc
(1) A driver must not drive a vehicle unless the driver has proper control of the vehicle.
(1A) A driver must not drive a vehicle if a person or an animal is in the drivers lap. .
(2) A driver must not drive a motor vehicle unless the driver has a clear view of the road, and traffic, ahead, behind and to each side of the driver.
ADR 14/02 also has diagrams of the areas to each side that must be viewable from the drivers seat.

Thanks Frank, interesting to note that there is no actual requirement to see directly behind. 

Also note that they have pinched the diagram from a country with left hand drive.

No worries

i did notice the reference to the drivers position was on the "wrong" side but I suppose the diagram gives the general idea anyway.

I note also that the rule(297) is from the Australian road rules so applies everywhere.

I was having trouble finding where the rules were set out, so I went to see the people who enforce the rules for guidance. Generally it is difficult to find a clear statement of the rules, unless you have access to a law library.

I explained my situation, where I thought I had done the right thing, but was being spooked by statements being made about certain things being illegal, specifically:

1. I explained that I did have towing mirrors, and that they afforded me a view of the lane either side of me, but gave me no visibility of anuthing directly behind me except when in a corner. The officer I was talking to stated my mirrors were adequate, and satisfied the legal requirement.

2. I explained my preference when only staying for a short period of time, to leave the mirrors in place and to use the tow vehicle with the mirrors, but without the caravan. This is technically illegal, as your mirror should only extend 150mm outside the perimeter of your vehicle. However he also stated I would be damned unlucky to get booked for it.

3. I explained about how a camera, and a screen fixed over the mirror to provide an additional rear view when driving. This is NOT illegal, and makes perfect sense if you can do it, He believed the myth about using rear view screens to be illegal came from people having iPads propped on top of their dash showing videos, then claiming they were using it as a rear view tool.

4. We spoke about shackles, and he indicated that there was no specific rule regarding shackles at present, but if police thought your shackles were inadequate they could book you for having an improperly secured trailer. While there is no requirement to have rated shackles, it makes sense to have the best rated shackles you can fit.

It turns out after we had been chatting for a while that he tows a 22ft van behind a Patrol, and gets very frustrated by some of the stupid things he sees people doing.