Whilst I can sympathise with Lenny, the reality is, his time is up. Personally I'm not a fan of long term tenants using traditional caravan parks as housing estates of last resort. Especially when there are so many vans on the road these days being used by genuine tourists and particularly when the parks in question are located on such prime real estate.
I've always believed that councils or private operators who wish to allow permanents or long term tenants to use their land should classify their "parks" in a different category to tourist style caravan parks. Whilst not wanting to paint all permanent residents with the same brush, I have had a few experiences when staying in parks which were less than ideal, thanks to unruly permanent residents.
kandagal said
09:41 AM Jul 31, 2014
Oh Dear Here we are thinking in a few years time (when we are too old to keep going 'on the road' - mainly because we need a HR driving licence to drive our MH & eye test is very strict for same) we would have to become permanent CP residents. Just have to find the right one in the right spot. But now it looks like we will have to get our act together & make sure our wild parties are over by 7pm instead of 8pm as is the case now,
george57 said
12:47 PM Jul 31, 2014
Im also with you Keith and Alice, I know that if I was to sell up and travel chances are that I would eventually be unable to buy back into real estate, a CP is the logical alternative.......
George
Vic41 said
01:10 PM Jul 31, 2014
kandagal wrote:
Oh Dear Here we are thinking in a few years time (when we are too old to keep going 'on the road' - mainly because we need a HR driving licence to drive our MH & eye test is very strict for same) we would have to become permanent CP residents. Just have to find the right one in the right spot. But now it looks like we will have to get our act together & make sure our wild parties are over by 7pm instead of 8pm as is the case now,
How about a small rural block with a shed on it with toilet, shower, kitchen etc if the council allow it?
Or maybe rent a shed or spot on a farmers property with access to ablutions etc. There may be ablutions already on the property for shearers or other workers (Woofers?). Might be able to do a deal offering your services as caretakers (eyes and ears for when the property owner is away somewhere)????
Fastcoach said
01:24 PM Jul 31, 2014
I don't have anything against relocatable housing estates, whether they contain modern demountable homes or old caravans with permanent attached annexes. I'm sure they serve a section of the community very well. However, I still think that they should exist separately from tourist C/Ps.
I also wonder, based on the above comments, how many GNs who sold their homes and in many cases bought substantial motor homes and the like with the money, now have a few regrets about their decision. I'm sure many wouldn't have it any other way, but what happens if and when the lustre of constantly travelling around wears off and they decide they want to settle down again.
kandagal said
01:51 PM Jul 31, 2014
We don't have an regrets. We don't need a house as our M/H is spacy & well set up enough for us to end our days in. My chauffeur tells me a house is just a place to store all the things you don't need.
billeeeeeee said
02:51 PM Jul 31, 2014
Sold home ,bought M/home, No regrets , when we stop traveling, !!Then!! will worry what we will do, unto then, want to enjoy !!Life!!, as we only get one shot at life, as for having the permanents in a different section , I just hope I don't end up next to you !!Or!! any one with this small !!Mentality,,,,,, stay excited Billeeeeeee
-- Edited by billeeeeeee on Thursday 31st of July 2014 02:55:24 PM
We only get one shot at it....who gives a damn, enjoy every day!!
Golddetectornomad said
06:05 PM Jul 31, 2014
....as one Developer who had purchased a seaside caravan park to develop into a Housing Estate, and was kicking out all the ""permanents"" so eloquently put to me....just tell them...'you go In on wheels and you go OUT on wheels'.... I'm also with you Billeeee...when the time comes just pull into your nearest Centrelink carpark...throw out your anchor...and just tell them...'their prodigal son hath returned'.....problem solved.... I believe in a few years there will have to be substantial changes to ""elderly"" affordable housing requirements including semi permanent/transportable type accommodation facilities....only needs someone to think outside the current restrictive perametres....there will be many more Lenny's in the future....more than they've had in the past...as this silly residential continual price hike continues....not driven by the purchase price anymore rather about how much a working person/couple can pay per month on a Mortgage...and if you are not continuing to play their 'game' as a worker ant for the rest of your life.... until you drop....then something has to give......in the meantime..let's enjoy ourselves and perhaps there will be many more empty homes after all the working ants have expired...as acturally speaking they surely will...biggest 'con' ever perpetuated on average folk, by the Banks and the Big end of Town IMO..all in the name of profits....inflation is the next beast we will all have to contend with.....
....that's my epistle from The Mount for today....so all go forth and make sure we don't come in fifth.......Hoo Roo
-- Edited by Golddetectornomad on Thursday 31st of July 2014 06:08:04 PM
Glenelg said
06:34 PM Jul 31, 2014
with you Billeeeeeee
Dougwe said
06:45 PM Jul 31, 2014
Ah ha, maybe that's why I didn't get a reply to my email I sent to "Goldstar Caravans" Dave. Busy at the show maybe.
edit.......oops,wrong thread again. I think I will go take my meds now.
-- Edited by Dougwe on Thursday 31st of July 2014 06:46:58 PM
Dunmowin said
09:28 PM Jul 31, 2014
I have just downloaded updated for camps Australia No 7, and I notice that one caravan park is now closed to tourists - is only taking/keeping permanents.....
Aus-Kiwi said
09:41 PM Jul 31, 2014
That's it STOP the clock !! I'm not getting any older !!
PeterD said
12:16 AM Aug 1, 2014
Fastcoach wrote:
I don't have anything against relocatable housing estates, whether they contain modern demountable homes or old caravans with permanent attached annexes. I'm sure they serve a section of the community very well. However, I still think that they should exist separately from tourist C/Ps.
I also wonder, based on the above comments, how many GNs who sold their homes and in many cases bought substantial motor homes and the like with the money, now have a few regrets about their decision. I'm sure many wouldn't have it any other way, but what happens if and when the lustre of constantly travelling around wears off and they decide they want to settle down again.
There are a lot of issues here. Firstly I tend to agree with your first sentence. I live in a manufactured homes estate. We don't have any transients here. All our homes are built to the Australian Building Code. Our village has never hosted caravans, but I was fortunate to have the finance to move in one of those. However when I am travelling with the van I prefer parks that are wholly or substantially tourist parks but on the other hand I don't turn my nose up at residential caravan parks when they offer better value and are not too feral. We recently stayed in Aquatic Gardens Caravan Park at Carbrook QLD,. This is now a registered residential village, we enjoyed our stay, all the residents were pleasant and friendly.
There is good legislation in NSW to protect residents who hold substantial rent agreements (leases.) Most other states have followed NSW in introducing residential park legislation, some have not had this legislation for very long, I think SA is one of them. Legislation has brought with it the provision for decent rent agreements (or leases or any thing else you want to call them.) You would be a proper mug to move in without one. Part of the legislation provides for full compensation to shift elsewhere if the manager requires your site as part of the rent agreement. Presently the only time you can be evicted in NSW is if you have broken your agreement or the owner has had a development application approved for change of land use.
To all of you who intend to move into a park with your rig when your travelling days are over I offer the following advice. Choose your park carefully, talk to some of the residents. Check the current legislation, in NSW the manager has to provide you with a copy as part of the negotiations (our manager went through it with us.) Make sure you and the manager sign an industry approved agreement.
One of the problems with some of the longer standing residents is that they moved in before agreements became law. They do not have a modern style agreement. When the law was introduced in NSW in the early/mid 90s park owners could see what was ahead. They restructured their parks or sold them off for housing. Those who did not have good agreements suffered terribly. They got very little or nothing. Those featured in the OP are possibly in the same boat.
On the other hand there was an incident in NSW where the residents blew it. The park in question was La Mancha near Berowra. The manager issued them with eviction notices. They fought the notices and won on the point that the notices were not issued correctly. The notices were issued again (correctly.) The leader of the push reckoned he could win again and they did not accept the offer. By the time the court case was decided the offer period had expired - BUGGER. Of course they got nothing and the park owner was laughing all the way to the bank. Of course the press beat up the residents case and did not report the managers side. The current SA experience is possibly somewhere in between those two extremes, the press would not report of any compensation, no matter how much or little, that does not excite their readers/listeners and make good press coverage.
To those who are out there permanently on the road I again stress that you should do your homework. Get hold of the legislations from your favoured states. You will most likely find it in the consumer affairs web site (that's where the NSW legislation can be accessed.) Visit a few likely parks and get to know the managers a bit. Get yourself a good rent agreement before settling in. I am subscribing to this thread so I will see if any of you have further questions.
-- Edited by PeterD on Friday 1st of August 2014 12:26:48 AM
PeterD said
12:17 AM Aug 1, 2014
Dunmowin wrote:
I have just downloaded updated for camps Australia No 7, and I notice that one caravan park is now closed to tourists - is only taking/keeping permanents.....
Which one was that?
NeilandRaine said
08:44 AM Aug 1, 2014
Peter I believe under the latest Tenancy Agreement Act in NSW if the resident does not have a Tenancy Agreement the onus is on the owner of the park. i.e. If the park owner wishes to evict a tenant etc the tenant has the same rights as a tenant with an agreement after 90 days. The owner cannot take a tenant to the residential tenancy tribunal for any reason without a tenancy agreement. If a resident is in their own dwelling the park owner must relocate the resident up to 150 ks If the resident is in a park owned dwelling he can be given 90 days notice with out reason.
As for parks favouring permanents, have a think about it, about 75% of people on this forum condemn parks for the high cost of powered sites. Maybe a constant lower cash flow over 12 months is better than a high seasonal cash flow. Even when sites are all but empty the amenities still need power and lights. The park still needs to have security lights.
Believe me from over six years managing a caravan park there is just as many problems with visitors on powered/unpowered sites as there are with permanents. Permanents are the bread and butter, tourists are the cream. I am referring mainly to the mum and dad parks not the big chains
Dunmowin said
09:25 AM Aug 1, 2014
PeterD wrote:
Dunmowin wrote:
I have just downloaded updated for camps Australia No 7, and I notice that one caravan park is now closed to tourists - is only taking/keeping permanents.....
Which one was that?
CAW 7 QLD SITE 81 MOANA CARAVAN PARK
PeterD said
03:46 PM Aug 1, 2014
NeilandRaine wrote:
Peter I believe under the latest Tenancy Agreement Act in NSW if the resident does not have a Tenancy Agreement the onus is on the owner of the park. i.e. If the park owner wishes to evict a tenant etc the tenant has the same rights as a tenant with an agreement after 90 days. The owner cannot take a tenant to the residential tenancy tribunal for any reason without a tenancy agreement. If a resident is in their own dwelling the park owner must relocate the resident up to 150 ks If the resident is in a park owned dwelling he can be given 90 days notice with out reason.
snip
Believe me from over six years managing a caravan park there is just as many problems with visitors on powered/unpowered sites as there are with permanents. Permanents are the bread and butter, tourists are the cream. I am referring mainly to the mum and dad parks not the big chains
I'm not sure when your 6+ years of park management were. There have been several revisions of the legislation since I have been living here. "the tenant has the same rights as a tenant with an agreement after 90 days." - that did not apply in the days I was referring to when the tenants were turfed out of the older parks. The new legislation has been passed by both houses of parliament, I'm not sure if it has been signed into law yet. However none of the legislation that has covered me provided required the park owner to "relocate the resident up to 150 ks." The legislation since the previous change provided for compensation, the owner had to do the organising. It also provided for.
transporting your home and possessions to the new site (relocation), or to your new location (up to 500 kms), or disposing of it
Since posting my previous reply I have come across a very useful site - http://www.residentialparkliving.com.au/faq8.htm - I'm sure you can get many of your questions answered through this.
Regarding your last paragraph, it does not matter what type of park the manager is in, he still has to deal with people.
Always good to see someone prepared to stand up and be counted:
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/messenger/west-beaches/lenny-gough-is-the-last-man-standing-at-the-brighton-caravan-park-eviction-is-july-31/story-fni9llx9-1227007694272
Good onya, Lenny.
I've always believed that councils or private operators who wish to allow permanents or long term tenants to use their land should classify their "parks" in a different category to tourist style caravan parks. Whilst not wanting to paint all permanent residents with the same brush, I have had a few experiences when staying in parks which were less than ideal, thanks to unruly permanent residents.
George
How about a small rural block with a shed on it with toilet, shower, kitchen etc if the council allow it?
Or maybe rent a shed or spot on a farmers property with access to ablutions etc. There may be ablutions already on the property for shearers or other workers (Woofers?). Might be able to do a deal offering your services as caretakers (eyes and ears for when the property owner is away somewhere)????
I also wonder, based on the above comments, how many GNs who sold their homes and in many cases bought substantial motor homes and the like with the money, now have a few regrets about their decision. I'm sure many wouldn't have it any other way, but what happens if and when the lustre of constantly travelling around wears off and they decide they want to settle down again.
Sold home ,bought M/home, No regrets , when we stop traveling, !!Then!! will worry what we will do, unto then, want to enjoy !!Life!!, as we only get one shot at life, as for having the permanents in a different section , I just hope I don't end up next to you !!Or!! any one with this small !!Mentality,,,,,, stay excited Billeeeeeee
-- Edited by billeeeeeee on Thursday 31st of July 2014 02:55:24 PM
Well said.
We only get one shot at it....who gives a damn, enjoy every day!!
....as one Developer who had purchased a seaside caravan park to develop into a Housing Estate, and was kicking out all the ""permanents"" so eloquently put to me....just tell them...'you go In on wheels and you go OUT on wheels'....
I'm also with you Billeeee...when the time comes just pull into your nearest Centrelink carpark...throw out your anchor...and just tell them...'their prodigal son hath returned'.....problem solved....
I believe in a few years there will have to be substantial changes to ""elderly"" affordable housing requirements including semi permanent/transportable type accommodation facilities....only needs someone to think outside the current restrictive perametres....there will be many more Lenny's in the future....more than they've had in the past...as this silly residential continual price hike continues....not driven by the purchase price anymore rather about how much a working person/couple can pay per month on a Mortgage...and if you are not continuing to play their 'game' as a worker ant for the rest of your life.... until you drop....then something has to give......in the meantime..let's enjoy ourselves and perhaps there will be many more empty homes after all the working ants have expired...as acturally speaking they surely will...biggest 'con' ever perpetuated on average folk, by the Banks and the Big end of Town IMO..all in the name of profits....inflation is the next beast we will all have to contend with.....
....that's my epistle from The Mount for today....so all go forth and make sure we don't come in fifth.......Hoo Roo
-- Edited by Golddetectornomad on Thursday 31st of July 2014 06:08:04 PM
Ah ha, maybe that's why I didn't get a reply to my email I sent to "Goldstar Caravans" Dave. Busy at the show maybe.
edit.......oops,wrong thread again. I think I will go take my meds now.
-- Edited by Dougwe on Thursday 31st of July 2014 06:46:58 PM
I have just downloaded updated for camps Australia No 7, and I notice that one caravan park is now closed to tourists - is only taking/keeping permanents.....
There are a lot of issues here. Firstly I tend to agree with your first sentence. I live in a manufactured homes estate. We don't have any transients here. All our homes are built to the Australian Building Code. Our village has never hosted caravans, but I was fortunate to have the finance to move in one of those. However when I am travelling with the van I prefer parks that are wholly or substantially tourist parks but on the other hand I don't turn my nose up at residential caravan parks when they offer better value and are not too feral. We recently stayed in Aquatic Gardens Caravan Park at Carbrook QLD,. This is now a registered residential village, we enjoyed our stay, all the residents were pleasant and friendly.
There is good legislation in NSW to protect residents who hold substantial rent agreements (leases.) Most other states have followed NSW in introducing residential park legislation, some have not had this legislation for very long, I think SA is one of them. Legislation has brought with it the provision for decent rent agreements (or leases or any thing else you want to call them.) You would be a proper mug to move in without one. Part of the legislation provides for full compensation to shift elsewhere if the manager requires your site as part of the rent agreement. Presently the only time you can be evicted in NSW is if you have broken your agreement or the owner has had a development application approved for change of land use.
To all of you who intend to move into a park with your rig when your travelling days are over I offer the following advice. Choose your park carefully, talk to some of the residents. Check the current legislation, in NSW the manager has to provide you with a copy as part of the negotiations (our manager went through it with us.) Make sure you and the manager sign an industry approved agreement.
One of the problems with some of the longer standing residents is that they moved in before agreements became law. They do not have a modern style agreement. When the law was introduced in NSW in the early/mid 90s park owners could see what was ahead. They restructured their parks or sold them off for housing. Those who did not have good agreements suffered terribly. They got very little or nothing. Those featured in the OP are possibly in the same boat.
On the other hand there was an incident in NSW where the residents blew it. The park in question was La Mancha near Berowra. The manager issued them with eviction notices. They fought the notices and won on the point that the notices were not issued correctly. The notices were issued again (correctly.) The leader of the push reckoned he could win again and they did not accept the offer. By the time the court case was decided the offer period had expired - BUGGER. Of course they got nothing and the park owner was laughing all the way to the bank. Of course the press beat up the residents case and did not report the managers side. The current SA experience is possibly somewhere in between those two extremes, the press would not report of any compensation, no matter how much or little, that does not excite their readers/listeners and make good press coverage.
To those who are out there permanently on the road I again stress that you should do your homework. Get hold of the legislations from your favoured states. You will most likely find it in the consumer affairs web site (that's where the NSW legislation can be accessed.) Visit a few likely parks and get to know the managers a bit. Get yourself a good rent agreement before settling in. I am subscribing to this thread so I will see if any of you have further questions.
-- Edited by PeterD on Friday 1st of August 2014 12:26:48 AM
Which one was that?
As for parks favouring permanents, have a think about it, about 75% of people on this forum condemn parks for the high cost of powered sites. Maybe a constant lower cash flow over 12 months is better than a high seasonal cash flow. Even when sites are all but empty the amenities still need power and lights. The park still needs to have security lights.
Believe me from over six years managing a caravan park there is just as many problems with visitors on powered/unpowered sites as there are with permanents. Permanents are the bread and butter, tourists are the cream. I am referring mainly to the mum and dad parks not the big chains
CAW 7 QLD SITE 81 MOANA CARAVAN PARK
I'm not sure when your 6+ years of park management were. There have been several revisions of the legislation since I have been living here. "the tenant has the same rights as a tenant with an agreement after 90 days." - that did not apply in the days I was referring to when the tenants were turfed out of the older parks. The new legislation has been passed by both houses of parliament, I'm not sure if it has been signed into law yet. However none of the legislation that has covered me provided required the park owner to "relocate the resident up to 150 ks." The legislation since the previous change provided for compensation, the owner had to do the organising. It also provided for.
transporting your home and possessions to the new site
(relocation), or to your new location (up to 500 kms), or
disposing of it
Since posting my previous reply I have come across a very useful site - http://www.residentialparkliving.com.au/faq8.htm - I'm sure you can get many of your questions answered through this.
Regarding your last paragraph, it does not matter what type of park the manager is in, he still has to deal with people.