Thought I would come back into the fray with a less controversial subject than my last one ..... Payload on your vans/MH/tugs
how many of you hang things off the back of your Van or motor home, have stuff attached to the draw bar or strapped to roof racks, or have gear and equipment that may be surplus to requirements? Do you tow a car behind your MH which in combination makes it overweight? if you have not weighed your van prior to heading off on your travels, how you sure you are not overweight?
I have recently heard of a blitz in SE Queensland where around 20 were found to be illegal in one day? This makes me more concerned about being able to remain under about 300 which is a safe margin on the MH we will probably get,
The bottom line here is if any of those 20 vans were to have an accident the first thing an assessor and the police would assess (other than if a fatality was involved) is the weight of the van! Overweight = Illegal = Guilty = Insurance Claim Denied. I definitely don't want to find ourselves in such a situation at this exciting time in our lives! What about all of you out there?
Roving-Dutchy said
08:59 AM Jul 22, 2014
These days it is rare that the police are involved in an investigation of an accident, if the damage is only to property and I haven't ever heard of an insurance company weighing a van after an accident.
It just doesn't happen and this comes from a friend who is a motor insurance assessor.
I certainly don't worry about a claim being denied if I was to have an accident, as it is very rare for a claim to be denied except where fraud is involved and even then the insurance company very often loses their case.
Cheers
David
Jaahn said
09:38 AM Jul 22, 2014
chaslib wrote:
Thought I would come back into the fray with a less controversial subject than my last one ..... Payload on your vans/MH/tugs
how many of you hang things off the back of your Van or motor home, have stuff attached to the draw bar or strapped to roof racks, or have gear and equipment that may be surplus to requirements? Do you tow a car behind your MH which in combination makes it overweight? if you have not weighed your van prior to heading off on your travels, how you sure you are not overweight?
I have recently heard of a blitz in SE Queensland where around 20 were found to be illegal in one day? This makes me more concerned about being able to remain under about 300 which is a safe margin on the MH we will probably get,
The bottom line here is if any of those 20 vans were to have an accident the first thing an assessor and the police would assess (other than if a fatality was involved) is the weight of the van! Overweight = Illegal = Guilty = Insurance Claim Denied. I definitely don't want to find ourselves in such a situation at this exciting time in our lives! What about all of you out there?
Hi chaslib,
I have never heard of a vehicle being weighed after an accident. Probably agree in general with Roving-Dutchy's statements.
Perhaps your blitz story was an "urban" or "GN" myth and perhaps you could check the veracity of it ?? However it is obvious that some camper vans are likely to be over weight, even to an untrained eye. Here in NSW you would probably be required to front with a weighbridge ticket if the inspector was in doubt. I put mine over a local council tip weighbridge recently to see what it was. No charge either
300Kg is a bit tight and it does depend on what that includes. Does it include water in the tanks, or gas bottles or batteries. If so then it's not nearly enough. The devils in the details as has been said before
jaahn
deverall11 said
12:11 PM Jul 22, 2014
Jaahn wrote:
The bottom line here is if any of those 20 vans were to have an accident the first thing an assessor and the police would assess (other than if a fatality was involved) is the weight of the van! Overweight = Illegal = Guilty = Insurance Claim Denied. I definitely don't want to find ourselves in such a situation at this exciting time in our lives! What about all of you out there?
Hi chaslib,
I have never heard of a vehicle being weighed after an accident. Probably agree in general with Roving-Dutchy's statements.
Perhaps your blitz story was an "urban" or "GN" myth and perhaps you could check the veracity of it ?? However it is obvious that some camper vans are likely to be over weight, even to an untrained eye. Here in NSW you would probably be required to front with a weighbridge ticket if the inspector was in doubt. I put mine over a local council tip weighbridge recently to see what it was. No charge either
300Kg is a bit tight and it does depend on what that includes. Does it include water in the tanks, or gas bottles or batteries. If so then it's not nearly enough. The devils in the details as has been said before
jaahn
It seems somewhat unrealistic that a van could be weight after it has been in a major and gear is strewn all over the place. We just met some clown who openly admits that he is over weight. He is towing a Supreme Spirit LE with a Mitsubishi Challenger. These have a towing rating of 3t braked. This van emptied would be close to 2.8t.
Hope this idiot is not near us when it all comes undone.
Larry
-- Edited by deverall11 on Tuesday 22nd of July 2014 12:14:55 PM
chaslib said
12:15 PM Jul 22, 2014
Hi Jaahn ... Payload figure is excl water in fresh water tank, house battery, etc. ie, items considered standard at purchase. the reference to insurance was related to a major accident where police would be in attendance .... plan for the worst scenario and hope for the best. I was not referring to minor dings where no assessment would be called for and all info required by insurer would be included in the repairers quote. Not sure if the blitz was a myth or not, but have heard from a few sources, one local ..... Who knows! I prefer to err on the side of caution!
Cheers
Plendo said
01:27 PM Jul 22, 2014
Caution Chaslib, the water you add in your tanks DOES consume payload, the tare of the van is calculated with empty water tanks. In MOST cases the same is true for fuel, where the tare is calculated using nearly empty tanks (usually 10l), there are some exceptions where the tare includes half full, or full tanks, but they are rare.
Payload is a real trap as the payload of most vehicles is painfully inadequate, most vans have 400kg, fill the tanks and add gas bottles and you do not have much left. For tow vehicles the weight on the ball, the driver (yes I know some include a driver in the tare, but not many), passengers, the fuel, the fridge, bull bar, luggage, etc, all very quicjky consume your payload.
It is not just the total weight you need to worry about, but also where the weight is.
Apart from a desire to be legal, I think you would find your vehicle will behave better, and be safer with all the weights in the legal range.
chaslib said
02:27 PM Jul 22, 2014
sorry, my error re water ... You are correct .... 10ltr of diesel we were also advised. We actually sat down with the bathroom scales And weighed all the heavy stuff we have to include, eg. 2nd battery, 100kg for water, 2nd full gas bottle, heavier of the two of us, solar panels, generator, BBQ, bikes if we opt to take them, etc and we were a bit concerned about how much that took up, even weighed a carton of TEDs and a cask of wine! You are right in saying we will travel much happier, even if lighter, if all the boxes are checked. Both of us have many years in insurance and have a very good understanding of how the claims side works ... No way do we want to be on that other side of a claim if the subject of weight is disputed ..... We will get the weight of the van we settle on verified by way of a weigh bridge certificate before we take possession also as a starting point. Anyway, we still have time up,our sleeve to rethink choices .. We have in the past 6 months changed our minds several times as the research and learning processes continue
many thanks for everyone's feedback ...'
PeterInSa said
02:40 PM Jul 22, 2014
Re a Motorhome payload, my understanding is that is also includes the weight of the driver and passengers along with the diesel, contents of the grey water tank, cassette toilet etc etc. Caravans with payloads of 600/700/800Kg do not have the same fuel driver/passenger weights.
Peter
chaslib said
03:21 PM Jul 22, 2014
Hi Peter, we were not sure if all bodies were included or just the driver .... Have had conflicting opinions, so will consult the relevant authority in due course for a full list of what is and is not included for the type of van or motorhome.
Cheers
-- Edited by chaslib on Tuesday 22nd of July 2014 03:22:41 PM
justcruisin01 said
08:39 PM Jul 22, 2014
Just spoke to a fellow traveller who had to enter the weigh bridge at Katherine as he has a truck a towing a large van so over the 4.5 t. A compulsory check. Informed me that its a $1 per kg over plus the overload fine as well. EG.500kg over is $500 plus the normal fine of which I dont know a figure.
Also there are two unmarked 4x4 in the darwin area with portable scales.
The time for thinking it doesnt happen has passed.
I have been waved into a check point a weighed.
JC.
Plendo said
08:51 PM Jul 22, 2014
Sorry Chaslib, I forgot to mention that the van builder MAY accommodate a request for an increase in payload. In some cases they have headroom on the current hardware, or they may need some extra funds to upgrade the axles, springs etc.
When we picked up our van we had over 900kg of payload, we achieved this by upgrading to independent suspension, and setting the ATM 5kg below the towing limit of the tug.
I would certainly suggest exploring the options.
GerryP said
09:53 PM Jul 22, 2014
I too like to make sure that I'm legal, just in case. My Toyota 79 cab/chassis with canopy fitted and fully loaded was well over GVM. I upgraded the suspension and had the GVM increased from 3300 to 3780kgs and am now well within the new limit.
I did the same to our caravan. Raised it with an additional 75mm chassis rail and fitted 16" off road wheels and tyres. Had the ATM upgraded from 2840 to 3100kg. I was barely legal before, but now have spare capacity if needed.
I am in SA by the way. It may not be as easy to upgrade in some States.
The other thing people need to watch is the GCM (Gross Combination Mass), also known a GVCM in some states. This is the total maximum weight of the car and van combined. Mine is 6800kg, so I am OK. However, some vehicles have quite a low CGM which can effectively reduce the maximum weight you can carry in the tug if you hitch to a heavy van, even though that van may within the car's towing and ball weight limits.
chaslib said
08:39 AM Jul 23, 2014
Has anyone seen a legible copy,of the RVM Australia Payload Calculator??. I have been on the net trying to find some sort of official list and this came up several times and on several forums, but nobody seems to have a copy to download except one that is not readable on my iPad.
GerryP said
10:08 AM Jul 23, 2014
Hi chaslib,
Google has not come up with much, except that it is an Excel spreadsheet and is apparently available only to their members and dealers.
One comment I found suggested that the spreadsheet would only work if the manufacturer's Tare weight was actually correct or if you actually weighed your van (empty) to make sure the calculations are accurate.
Personally, what I did was to load the van up, including full tanks and gas, clothes, food etc. Everything you would have on a long trip away, then take it to a nearby weigh bridge and get the ATM and ball weight.
Then you'll know for sure whether you are legal and within the limits of both the van and your tug. If not, then you'll know how much to get rid of, whether to redistribute weight front/rear, or whether to go for an ATM upgrade.
I would never take the Tare weight from the compliance plate as gospel.
Thought I would come back into the fray with a less controversial subject than my last one ..... Payload on your vans/MH/tugs
how many of you hang things off the back of your Van or motor home, have stuff attached to the draw bar or strapped to roof racks, or have gear and equipment that may be surplus to requirements? Do you tow a car behind your MH which in combination makes it overweight? if you have not weighed your van prior to heading off on your travels, how you sure you are not overweight?
I have recently heard of a blitz in SE Queensland where around 20 were found to be illegal in one day? This makes me more concerned about being able to remain under about 300 which is a safe margin on the MH we will probably get,
The bottom line here is if any of those 20 vans were to have an accident the first thing an assessor and the police would assess (other than if a fatality was involved) is the weight of the van! Overweight = Illegal = Guilty = Insurance Claim Denied. I definitely don't want to find ourselves in such a situation at this exciting time in our lives! What about all of you out there?
It just doesn't happen and this comes from a friend who is a motor insurance assessor.
I certainly don't worry about a claim being denied if I was to have an accident, as it is very rare for a claim to be denied except where fraud is involved and even then the insurance company very often loses their case.
Cheers
David
Hi chaslib,
I have never heard of a vehicle being weighed after an accident. Probably agree in general with Roving-Dutchy's statements.
Perhaps your blitz story was an "urban" or "GN" myth and perhaps you could check the veracity of it ?? However it is obvious that some camper vans are likely to be over weight, even to an untrained eye. Here in NSW you would probably be required to front with a weighbridge ticket if the inspector was in doubt. I put mine over a local council tip weighbridge recently to see what it was. No charge either
300Kg is a bit tight and it does depend on what that includes. Does it include water in the tanks, or gas bottles or batteries. If so then it's not nearly enough. The devils in the details as has been said before
jaahn
It seems somewhat unrealistic that a van could be weight after it has been in a major and gear is strewn all over the place. We just met some clown who openly admits that he is over weight. He is towing a Supreme Spirit LE with a Mitsubishi Challenger. These have a towing rating of 3t braked. This van emptied would be close to 2.8t.
Hope this idiot is not near us when it all comes undone.
Larry
-- Edited by deverall11 on Tuesday 22nd of July 2014 12:14:55 PM
Hi Jaahn ... Payload figure is excl water in fresh water tank, house battery, etc. ie, items considered standard at purchase. the reference to insurance was related to a major accident where police would be in attendance .... plan for the worst scenario and hope for the best. I was not referring to minor dings where no assessment would be called for and all info required by insurer would be included in the repairers quote. Not sure if the blitz was a myth or not, but have heard from a few sources, one local ..... Who knows! I prefer to err on the side of caution!
Cheers
Caution Chaslib, the water you add in your tanks DOES consume payload, the tare of the van is calculated with empty water tanks. In MOST cases the same is true for fuel, where the tare is calculated using nearly empty tanks (usually 10l), there are some exceptions where the tare includes half full, or full tanks, but they are rare.
Payload is a real trap as the payload of most vehicles is painfully inadequate, most vans have 400kg, fill the tanks and add gas bottles and you do not have much left. For tow vehicles the weight on the ball, the driver (yes I know some include a driver in the tare, but not many), passengers, the fuel, the fridge, bull bar, luggage, etc, all very quicjky consume your payload.
It is not just the total weight you need to worry about, but also where the weight is.
Apart from a desire to be legal, I think you would find your vehicle will behave better, and be safer with all the weights in the legal range.
sorry, my error re water ... You are correct .... 10ltr of diesel we were also advised. We actually sat down with the bathroom scales And weighed all the heavy stuff we have to include, eg. 2nd battery, 100kg for water, 2nd full gas bottle, heavier of the two of us, solar panels, generator, BBQ, bikes if we opt to take them, etc and we were a bit concerned about how much that took up, even weighed a carton of TEDs and a cask of wine! You are right in saying we will travel much happier, even if lighter, if all the boxes are checked. Both of us have many years in insurance and have a very good understanding of how the claims side works ... No way do we want to be on that other side of a claim if the subject of weight is disputed ..... We will get the weight of the van we settle on verified by way of a weigh bridge certificate before we take possession also as a starting point. Anyway, we still have time up,our sleeve to rethink choices .. We have in the past 6 months changed our minds several times as the research and learning processes continue
many thanks for everyone's feedback ...'
Peter
Hi Peter, we were not sure if all bodies were included or just the driver .... Have had conflicting opinions, so will consult the relevant authority in due course for a full list of what is and is not included for the type of van or motorhome.
Cheers
-- Edited by chaslib on Tuesday 22nd of July 2014 03:22:41 PM
Just spoke to a fellow traveller who had to enter the weigh bridge at Katherine as he has a truck a towing a large van so over the 4.5 t. A compulsory check. Informed me that its a $1 per kg over plus the overload fine as well. EG.500kg over is $500 plus the normal fine of which I dont know a figure.
Also there are two unmarked 4x4 in the darwin area with portable scales.
The time for thinking it doesnt happen has passed.
I have been waved into a check point a weighed.
JC.
Sorry Chaslib, I forgot to mention that the van builder MAY accommodate a request for an increase in payload. In some cases they have headroom on the current hardware, or they may need some extra funds to upgrade the axles, springs etc.
When we picked up our van we had over 900kg of payload, we achieved this by upgrading to independent suspension, and setting the ATM 5kg below the towing limit of the tug.
I would certainly suggest exploring the options.
I too like to make sure that I'm legal, just in case. My Toyota 79 cab/chassis with canopy fitted and fully loaded was well over GVM. I upgraded the suspension and had the GVM increased from 3300 to 3780kgs and am now well within the new limit.
I did the same to our caravan. Raised it with an additional 75mm chassis rail and fitted 16" off road wheels and tyres. Had the ATM upgraded from 2840 to 3100kg. I was barely legal before, but now have spare capacity if needed.
I am in SA by the way. It may not be as easy to upgrade in some States.
The other thing people need to watch is the GCM (Gross Combination Mass), also known a GVCM in some states. This is the total maximum weight of the car and van combined. Mine is 6800kg, so I am OK. However, some vehicles have quite a low CGM which can effectively reduce the maximum weight you can carry in the tug if you hitch to a heavy van, even though that van may within the car's towing and ball weight limits.
Has anyone seen a legible copy,of the RVM Australia Payload Calculator??. I have been on the net trying to find some sort of official list and this came up several times and on several forums, but nobody seems to have a copy to download except one that is not readable on my iPad.
Hi chaslib,
Google has not come up with much, except that it is an Excel spreadsheet and is apparently available only to their members and dealers.
One comment I found suggested that the spreadsheet would only work if the manufacturer's Tare weight was actually correct or if you actually weighed your van (empty) to make sure the calculations are accurate.
Personally, what I did was to load the van up, including full tanks and gas, clothes, food etc. Everything you would have on a long trip away, then take it to a nearby weigh bridge and get the ATM and ball weight.
Then you'll know for sure whether you are legal and within the limits of both the van and your tug. If not, then you'll know how much to get rid of, whether to redistribute weight front/rear, or whether to go for an ATM upgrade.
I would never take the Tare weight from the compliance plate as gospel.