In South Australia we have the office of the technical regulator who investigates electrical fatalities, accidents and complaints about electricians. There have been a number of shonky sparkies who have been de licenced and put out of circulation.
Unfortunately we live in times when dodgy work is cheaper than the real deal so we basically permit these charlatans to practice.
A few rules of thumb:
Ask the electrician to see the contractors licence, it has to be a contractor licence for stand along sparkies, company sparkies are covered by the company contractor licence and will carry an A grade licence as long as the work shows on a company invoice/C.O.C, before they start work
Always insist on a certificate of compliance (C.O.C) from the sparky, ensure it has the electrician's/companies contractors licence number, phone contact etc. And yes they are needed for caravan work, same as gas work. (AS 3000 and AS3001)
Make sure the sparky completes an earth bonding continuity and insulation resistance check before livening a new circuit
Dont sign off on the job until you (the customer) are 100% happy that it is safe and works to your specs
MOST IMPORTANT!!! Never ever do electrical work yourself, it may look simple and straight forward however there are hidden dangers that can ruin your day. Get a licenced electrician every time!!!
Safe travels
oldtrack123 said
04:16 PM Jul 19, 2014
Phil C wrote:
Good post PeterQ
In South Australia we have the office of the technical regulator who investigates electrical fatalities, accidents and complaints about electricians. There have been a number of shonky sparkies who have been de licenced and put out of circulation.
Unfortunately we live in times when dodgy work is cheaper than the real deal so we basically permit these charlatans to practice.
A few rules of thumb:
Ask the electrician to see the contractors licence, it has to be a contractor licence for stand along sparkies, company sparkies are covered by the company contractor licence and will carry an A grade licence as long as the work shows on a company invoice/C.O.C, before they start work
Always insist on a certificate of compliance (C.O.C) from the sparky, ensure it has the electrician's/companies contractors licence number, phone contact etc. And yes they are needed for caravan work, same as gas work. (AS 3000 and AS3001)
Make sure the sparky completes an earth bonding continuity and insulation resistance check before livening a new circuit
Dont sign off on the job until you (the customer) are 100% happy that it is safe and works to your specs
MOST IMPORTANT!!! Never ever do electrical work yourself, it may look simple and straight forward however there are hidden dangers that can ruin your day. Get a licenced electrician every time!!!
Safe travels
HI Phil
RE "In South Australia we have the office of the technical regulator" And the head man[ CH ]is no fool, I have had dealings with him on compliance matters
The backward step was when the Electrical Authorities did away with EVERY installation being checked by THEIR inspectors
Very few passed without some rectifcation.
Poor workmanship could usually be one[After all they did have to show they were on the job]
Now we have the crazy self/regulation, inspection crap, by the lone electrical contractor checking his OWN work. or a company employee..[often under pessure from his employer with saying "Oohh, don't worry about tha,t no one will know"
My son is an electrician [3 rd generation] tester who has to sign off on jobs for his employer, that employer often employs licensed electrical contractors when they are short of electricians
The horror stories that the son has found with many of those "Licenced electrical contractor's" work are almost beyond belief
Thankfully he does not have that problem["Oohh, don't worry about that no one will know" with his current employer, but he had it previously.
PeterQ
-
-- Edited by oldtrack123 on Saturday 19th of July 2014 04:20:37 PM
ken thomas said
06:47 PM Jul 19, 2014
Normally nothing
Ken
Phil C said
08:24 PM Jul 19, 2014
oldtrack123 wrote:
Phil C wrote:
Good post PeterQ
In South Australia we have the office of the technical regulator who investigates electrical fatalities, accidents and complaints about electricians. There have been a number of shonky sparkies who have been de licenced and put out of circulation.
Unfortunately we live in times when dodgy work is cheaper than the real deal so we basically permit these charlatans to practice.
A few rules of thumb:
Ask the electrician to see the contractors licence, it has to be a contractor licence for stand along sparkies, company sparkies are covered by the company contractor licence and will carry an A grade licence as long as the work shows on a company invoice/C.O.C, before they start work
Always insist on a certificate of compliance (C.O.C) from the sparky, ensure it has the electrician's/companies contractors licence number, phone contact etc. And yes they are needed for caravan work, same as gas work. (AS 3000 and AS3001)
Make sure the sparky completes an earth bonding continuity and insulation resistance check before livening a new circuit
Dont sign off on the job until you (the customer) are 100% happy that it is safe and works to your specs
MOST IMPORTANT!!! Never ever do electrical work yourself, it may look simple and straight forward however there are hidden dangers that can ruin your day. Get a licenced electrician every time!!!
Safe travels
HI Phil
RE "In South Australia we have the office of the technical regulator" And the head man[ CH ]is no fool, I have had dealings with him on compliance matters
The backward step was when the Electrical Authorities did away with EVERY installation being checked by THEIR inspectors
Very few passed without some rectifcation.
Poor workmanship could usually be one[After all they did have to show they were on the job]
Now we have the crazy self/regulation, inspection crap, by the lone electrical contractor checking his OWN work. or a company employee..[often under pessure from his employer with saying "Oohh, don't worry about tha,t no one will know"
My son is an electrician [3 rd generation] tester who has to sign off on jobs for his employer, that employer often employs licensed electrical contractors when they are short of electricians
The horror stories that the son has found with many of those "Licenced electrical contractor's" work are almost beyond belief
Thankfully he does not have that problem["Oohh, don't worry about that no one will know" with his current employer, but he had it previously.
PeterQ
-
-- Edited by oldtrack123 on Saturday 19th of July 2014 04:20:37 PM
Hi PeterQ
I have a mate who works at the OTR as well (the ginger headed bloke), although I havnt seen him for years, I made it my business to have them (OTR) come into each year of my apprentices (when I was teaching them) to talk about the OTR and show some accident pictures, worked well as I havnt read any negative stuff about them.
I am equally dismayed at self inspection, I can think of a few "big electrical contractors" that would take dangerous shortcuts or just not do it correctly. One mob we tried to jump on sent 1st years (after 6 months) out on simple jobs ALONE and got them to SMS photos of their work for final approval.... YIPES!!!!
Im glad Im out, the only work I do now is on my own caravan, cant sign a COC because I aint got any left..
Caravans are way worse to work on than aircraft, seems all the electrical work was done before the skin was put on... Mongrel of a job.
Safe travels mate.
hotqld said
09:29 PM Jul 19, 2014
Phil
Those Electricians that have been de licenced is that information available to the public?
oldtrack123 said
11:16 PM Jul 19, 2014
hotqld wrote:
Phil Those Electricians that have been de licenced is that information available to the public?
YES, Tony
IF you know where to search & have the time
Most/all States have such records usually in the energy office or equivalent records, but some times elsewhee
-- Edited by oldtrack123 on Saturday 19th of July 2014 11:20:43 PM
Phil C said
11:38 AM Jul 20, 2014
oldtrack123 wrote:
hotqld wrote:
Phil Those Electricians that have been de licenced is that information available to the public?
YES, Tony
IF you know where to search & have the time
Most/all States have such records usually in the energy office or equivalent records, but some times elsewhee
-- Edited by oldtrack123 on Saturday 19th of July 2014 11:20:43 PM
Guys, I have never had to do this, however I would imagine a search for office of the technical regulator may bring up a list or de licenced electricians as well, I may try it.
be good
Found this link
www.licensedtrades.com.au/Electricians
-- Edited by Phil C on Sunday 20th of July 2014 11:41:05 AM
Murraman said
11:28 PM Jul 23, 2014
And the funny part is on Whirlpool if someone says he is going to do a simple job like changing a gpo all hell breaks loose and they tell him in no uncertain terms get a licenced leckie to do it as it is too dangerous bla bla bla. So what you are saying is that it may be more dangerous to get the leckie and pay through the nose.
I think that the protection given to Electrical and Plumbing trades in this country is a sham, I don't think statistics uphold the theory that having a licenced electrician do all the electrical work saves lives, Not looking at the stats from NZ and the UK.
johnq said
12:15 AM Jul 24, 2014
ken thomas wrote:
Normally nothing Ken
Agree.
Just a some examples from a new house we had built:
- rear of the power point that operated the panel-lift garage door had no cover on its rear. The power point was immediately adjacent to the ceiling entry (sealed ceiling), so anyone entering the ceiling space could put a hand on the wiring;
- external weatherproof switches filled with water in the first rain;
- rear of power points in house walls had no rear covers notwithstanding there was metallic sarking in the walls; and
- wiring in the roof cavity stretched to save $$ (guess what else was a problem).
House built to a superior standard (specification) and not the cheapest quote accepted by any means.
BTW, the homeowner cannot refuse or delay a payment where there is a dispute about unsatisfactory work. That would be a breach of contract by the homeowner -> serious negative outcomes for owner. Check your contract law.
The electricity authority should be directly responsible for inspecting all work over a certain value in my view. Its own inspectors too, not private contractors.
Aus-Kiwi said
12:45 PM Jul 24, 2014
II's are being phased out..
oldtrack123 said
01:32 PM Jul 24, 2014
johnst a some examples from a new house we had built:
- rear of the power point that operated the panel-lift garage door had no cover on its rear. The power point was immediately adjacent to the ceiling entry (sealed ceiling), so anyone entering the ceiling space could put a hand on the wiring;
- external weatherproof switches filled with water in the first rain;
- rear of power points in house walls had no rear covers notwithstanding there was metallic sarking in the walls; and
- wiring in the roof cavity stretched to save $$ (guess what else was a problem).
House built to a superior standard (specification) and not the cheapest quote accepted by any means.
BTW, the homeowner cannot refuse or delay a payment where there is a dispute about unsatisfactory work. That would be a breach of contract by the homeowner -> serious negative outcomes for owner. Check your contract law.
The electricity authority should be directly responsible for inspecting all work over a certain value in my view. Its own inspectors too, not private contractors.
HI John
Watch out some one will come on & say he does not know of any electician who does dodgy work
Sadly what you have found is not uncommon
& your last line does see the problem
It all really started when the Supply Authorites did away with having their OWN inspectors check EVERY electrical installation & ADDITIONS, & decided self regulation & inspection by the licensed electrical contractor doing the job would be OK!
In those days "workmanship" always gave the inspcetor a chance to write a non compliance & request rectifiation AND reinspection
Now random checks are supposed to be made, but the incompetent &r the shonks know the chances of getting caught are very very low[in some states wors ethan others]
If caught, unless an extremely dangrerous situation, they will just get a warning & possible fine
PeterQ
oldtrack123 said
01:41 PM Jul 24, 2014
Murraman wrote:
And the funny part is on Whirlpool if someone says he is going to do a simple job like changing a gpo all hell breaks loose and they tell him in no uncertain terms get a licenced leckie to do it as it is too dangerous bla bla bla. So what you are saying is that it may be more dangerous to get the leckie and pay through the nose.
I think that the protection given to Electrical and Plumbing trades in this country is a sham, I don't think statistics uphold the theory that having a licenced electrician do all the electrical work saves lives, Not looking at the stats from NZ and the UK.
HI
Like all trades & profesions there are incompetents & shonks ,and the mighty dollar rules
What wrong with a few short cuts or failing to meet the Standards AS long as not caught,? seems to be a wide sprerd attitude
NewZealand at least has the safegaurd of compulsory independent inspection by Licenced INSPECTORS!
Hi
The question is often asked about what happens when dodgy electrician are caught out
This link from WA who do still have independent inspectors doing checks may be of interest
http://www.commerce.wa.gov.au/sites/default/files/atoms/files/energy_bulletin_67.pdf
PeterQ
In South Australia we have the office of the technical regulator who investigates electrical fatalities, accidents and complaints about electricians. There have been a number of shonky sparkies who have been de licenced and put out of circulation.
Unfortunately we live in times when dodgy work is cheaper than the real deal so we basically permit these charlatans to practice.
A few rules of thumb:
Ask the electrician to see the contractors licence, it has to be a contractor licence for stand along sparkies, company sparkies are covered by the company contractor licence and will carry an A grade licence as long as the work shows on a company invoice/C.O.C, before they start work
Always insist on a certificate of compliance (C.O.C) from the sparky, ensure it has the electrician's/companies contractors licence number, phone contact etc. And yes they are needed for caravan work, same as gas work. (AS 3000 and AS3001)
Make sure the sparky completes an earth bonding continuity and insulation resistance check before livening a new circuit
Dont sign off on the job until you (the customer) are 100% happy that it is safe and works to your specs
MOST IMPORTANT!!! Never ever do electrical work yourself, it may look simple and straight forward however there are hidden dangers that can ruin your day. Get a licenced electrician every time!!!
Safe travels
HI Phil
RE "In South Australia we have the office of the technical regulator" And the head man[ CH ]is no fool, I have had dealings with him on compliance matters
The backward step was when the Electrical Authorities did away with EVERY installation being checked by THEIR inspectors
Very few passed without some rectifcation.
Poor workmanship could usually be one[After all they did have to show they were on the job]
Now we have the crazy self/regulation, inspection crap, by the lone electrical contractor checking his OWN work. or a company employee..[often under pessure from his employer with saying "Oohh, don't worry about tha,t no one will know"
My son is an electrician [3 rd generation] tester who has to sign off on jobs for his employer, that employer often employs licensed electrical contractors when they are short of electricians
The horror stories that the son has found with many of those "Licenced electrical contractor's" work are almost beyond belief
Thankfully he does not have that problem["Oohh, don't worry about that no one will know" with his current employer, but he had it previously.
PeterQ
-
-- Edited by oldtrack123 on Saturday 19th of July 2014 04:20:37 PM
Ken
Hi PeterQ
I have a mate who works at the OTR as well (the ginger headed bloke), although I havnt seen him for years, I made it my business to have them (OTR) come into each year of my apprentices (when I was teaching them) to talk about the OTR and show some accident pictures, worked well as I havnt read any negative stuff about them.
I am equally dismayed at self inspection, I can think of a few "big electrical contractors" that would take dangerous shortcuts or just not do it correctly. One mob we tried to jump on sent 1st years (after 6 months) out on simple jobs ALONE and got them to SMS photos of their work for final approval.... YIPES!!!!
Im glad Im out, the only work I do now is on my own caravan, cant sign a COC because I aint got any left..
Caravans are way worse to work on than aircraft, seems all the electrical work was done before the skin was put on... Mongrel of a job.
Safe travels mate.
Those Electricians that have been de licenced is that information available to the public?
YES, Tony
IF you know where to search & have the time
Most/all States have such records usually in the energy office or equivalent records, but some times elsewhee
-- Edited by oldtrack123 on Saturday 19th of July 2014 11:20:43 PM
Guys, I have never had to do this, however I would imagine a search for office of the technical regulator may bring up a list or de licenced electricians as well, I may try it.
be good
Found this link
www.licensedtrades.com.au/Electricians
-- Edited by Phil C on Sunday 20th of July 2014 11:41:05 AM
I think that the protection given to Electrical and Plumbing trades in this country is a sham, I don't think statistics uphold the theory that having a licenced electrician do all the electrical work saves lives, Not looking at the stats from NZ and the UK.
Agree.
Just a some examples from a new house we had built:
- rear of the power point that operated the panel-lift garage door had no cover on its rear. The power point was immediately adjacent to the ceiling entry (sealed ceiling), so anyone entering the ceiling space could put a hand on the wiring;
- external weatherproof switches filled with water in the first rain;
- rear of power points in house walls had no rear covers notwithstanding there was metallic sarking in the walls; and
- wiring in the roof cavity stretched to save $$ (guess what else was a problem).
House built to a superior standard (specification) and not the cheapest quote accepted by any means.
BTW, the homeowner cannot refuse or delay a payment where there is a dispute about unsatisfactory work. That would be a breach of contract by the homeowner -> serious negative outcomes for owner. Check your contract law.
The electricity authority should be directly responsible for inspecting all work over a certain value in my view. Its own inspectors too, not private contractors.
HI John
Watch out some one
will come on & say he does not know of any electician who does dodgy work
Sadly what you have found is not uncommon
& your last line does see the problem
It all really started when the Supply Authorites did away with having their OWN inspectors check EVERY electrical installation & ADDITIONS, & decided self regulation & inspection by the licensed electrical contractor doing the job would be OK!
In those days "workmanship" always gave the inspcetor a chance to write a non compliance & request rectifiation AND reinspection
Now random checks are supposed to be made, but the incompetent &r the shonks know the chances of getting caught are very very low[in some states wors ethan others]
If caught, unless an extremely dangrerous situation, they will just get a warning & possible fine
PeterQ
HI
Like all trades & profesions there are incompetents & shonks ,and the mighty dollar rules
What wrong with a few short cuts or failing to meet the Standards AS long as not caught,? seems to be a wide sprerd attitude
NewZealand at least has the safegaurd of compulsory independent inspection by Licenced INSPECTORS!