Why wasn't I told in the Northern Territory the LPG is different to all other states in Australia in that in NT they run cars on the same Gas as they do cooking appliances etc not Auto gas,
this caused vehicles running on auto gas to backfire and not run smoothly and in my case has destroyed my Air Filter box and I think also my airflow sensor, potentially quite expensive.
I have been told by a lpg installer up here that they retune the settings of the lpg system to overcome this issue and you then have to have them retuned when travelling on gas outside the NT.
Needless to say I am not happy Jan and will be contacting somebody to to complain i think servos selling Gas in NT should have notice to this effect on browsers
I for one will be now aware ... thanks for the valuable input..
Norm
KeenTravellers
dazren said
04:56 PM Jun 30, 2014
Hmm NOT GOOD aussietraveller,, I have been a Duel Fuel guy since the 1980's Where abouts in N.T. did this happen, ?? I was all around Ayes Rock, Kings Canyon, and surrounds 3 years ago, and had No problems with any of the Lpg, [ did not like the price at times, ] But the car i had then [ Mazda Tribute + 16' poptop ] ran like a dream, no problems at all,, I now have a 2011 Colorado fact/fitted duel fuel and a 19'6'' Lotus full van ] and next year I will be travelling further up into the N.T. so your story is of some interest and concern to me ??
I see you have a Pajero, which if fitted with the LPG approved engine are a good tow vehicle, is your Gas system Direct Injected ?? or is it the Old style Venturi system,?? As the venturi systems were famous for blowing the boxes, and also blowing off some of the hoses ?/ especially if they were not kept well tuned, and fitted with the High Temp Leads ??
I will follow any information you get with interest, ? as I said i am going back up there next year,, Good luck with your outcome..
DeBe said
06:49 PM Jun 30, 2014
You will find in most country areas in Australia there is no Auto gas only Propane. The same tanker fills the servo & the local pubs & Hospitals. Where I live that's all you get & ive never had any problems using it, or when ive filled up in Adelaide with Auto gas. A properly running vehicle should have no problems.
KevKim37 said
07:03 PM Jun 30, 2014
I have had a Diesel/Gas system fitted to our HDJ79 Ute for 8 years and just recently travelled from SA to Tennant Ck
and filled up with Gas twice before turning east to Qld without any problems or performance issues. All around Aust the mix percentages of
Butane with the Propane varies with States, Localities, Seasons (ie Temps because if 100% Butane, vehicles would not operate below -0.5 degrees
the Liquid Gas will not Boil Off so Autogas always has a mix of Propane in it).
I would find it hard to believe that the Gas suppliers would supply a 100% Propane mix for vehicles as "This would cause major problems"
as the Butane has a Higher Calorific Heat Value and as such is used and always needed to raise the Octane rating of the Autogas.
Autogas is always a mix of these two gases and not just one or the other.
Cheers Kev.
DeBe said
08:00 PM Jun 30, 2014
Not according to the tanker driver I quizedwhen filling tanks localy & said it was all Propane & it works fine in vehicles.
KeenTravellers said
08:41 PM Jun 30, 2014
Australia is one of the largest producers of LPG - We export over 3.5 Bil / Lt per year? So why do we pay the high prices here in Oz - its not transport and using LPG is almost carbon free. so much for the carbon tax..
In Thailand recently they pay less than 50cAUS p/ltr AutoLPG? yep cheap eh... Why the high price in Oz - Purely because they can get away with it and no one says anything.. including the Governement.
Here is a Note Shell web site on LPG - Quote:-
"Automotive LPG, automix or autogas refers to the LPG used for automotive applications. Automotive LPG consists of a mix of propane and butane, whereas domestic, industrial and commercial LPG is predominantly propane.
Generally, the autogas sold by Shell is a mixture of propane (C3 or 3 carbon atoms) and butane (C4 or 4 carbon atoms).
Depending on the source of the auto LPG and how it has been produced, other components may also be present. To ensure that the auto LPG you receive is of a consistent high quality, detailed specifications are laid down. Every batch of auto LPG is rigorously tested to ensure that it always meets the appropriate specification."
The last sentence I dont really believe ...
After being overseas recently - Australia definately is one of the dearest places to live But - its still the best... by far..
Norm
KT
Vic41 said
09:19 PM Jun 30, 2014
DeBe wrote:
You will find in most country areas in Australia there is no Auto gas only Propane. The same tanker fills the servo & the local pubs & Hospitals. Where I live that's all you get & ive never had any problems using it, or when ive filled up in Adelaide with Auto gas. A properly running vehicle should have no problems.
A Servo owner told me once that the gas delivered to their servo was from the same truck which filled both their vehicle and gas bottle tanks, he swore both used the same gas ???? Oh, but a difference in prices, more expensive for the decanted gas for gas bottles.
SnowT said
11:36 PM Jun 30, 2014
I think you have hit the nail on the head..
Country GAS is ALL Propane...
Back when I had the XF Panel Van I paid a nice amount of $$ to have a custom built Pure Gas Motor built.. 3/4 Race Cam Oversize Valve etc.. I think you get the idea..
- The Motor on the Dyno after it was run it put out 60% more power than the original spec's on the current petrol Motor.. Was Running a GAS RESEARCH system back then..
It would Cruse at over 140k's Comfortable.. and if you gave it the Boot it would pickup quickly.. Sucked fuel[> 110l'ks ] like it was going out of fashion But it had the power..
- It ran on Pure Propane beautiful and had to be down graded to run on LPG..
Before the price of gas started to rise over $0.25c / Lt the general mix of the gas was higher in Propane than what we have now.. and a Few Spot's sold Propane for 1c more..
Now the LPG is very Suspect except when you get out of the major city's..
Juergen..
Psst make sure that you clean up the Filter on a regular basis as they do fill up with a lovely Black gunk..
Ole_Grizzly said
11:04 AM Jul 1, 2014
Is no LPG at
Wycliffe Well NT
Many have been caught out there.
BP along the coast of Qld are closing down LPG pumps due to some OHS conditions.
Was informed that LPG & Diesel only pumps stations are to be established.
A new condition of use will be "All passengers must be out of vehicle while filling"
Sorry, I can't be more specific, but is what a BP Service Station manager informed me last month in Qld.
aussietraveller said
04:35 PM Jul 3, 2014
I need to correct the information that I initially posted as I have after doing the rounds of several mechanical workshops in Darwin now found out what the real problem is,
Prior to leaving home I had a workshop do a number of things to ensure that I didn't have problems on the road this included new Platinum Plugs new high tension leads and new seals ib the spark plug tubes,
An experienced mechanic who did a lot of LPG conversions up here found that there was oil in the spark plug tube which means that it was shorting out and causing the back fire so either one or more seals have failed or the job was not done properly, tug still drivable on petrol as requires not as strong a spark so it will be petrol only going home as to get the job done was going to cost $800 approx and couldn't be done for three weeks.
LPG IN THE NORTHERN TERRITORY IS NOT THE PROBLEM
DeBe said
05:39 PM Jul 3, 2014
Glad you finaly found the trouble.
dazren said
03:05 PM Jul 4, 2014
Thanks for clearing up the situation, I will rest a little easier . when i am there next year,,
KeenTravellers said
01:08 AM Jul 6, 2014
Hey David
I sent off an email to the The Gas Energy Australia Association and their replay about LPG in the NT was as Follows
Thank you for your email. In relation to your questions, the quality of all transport fuel is regulated federally not state by state. This includes Autogas no matter where it is sold including the Northern Territory. It must comply with the specifications outlined in the regulation. http://www.environment.gov.au/topics/environment-protection/fuel-quality/standards/autogas . Autogas consists of propane or a mix of propane and butane and depending on where you are in Australia can vary slightly in the mix, however the Autogas product must conform to the requirements of the Fuel Quality Standard Act 2000. The Department of Environment has a Monitoring, Compliance and Enforcement Program with the details available on the department website and there is a section where members of the public can lodge a complaint regarding fuel quality. http://www.environment.gov.au/webform/make-fuel-quality-complaint
Thanks again for your question. Regards
Vivien Lai
So hope this sheds some light on the the topic for you.
this caused vehicles running on auto gas to backfire and not run smoothly and in my case has destroyed my Air Filter box and I think also my airflow sensor, potentially quite expensive.
I have been told by a lpg installer up here that they retune the settings of the lpg system to overcome this issue and you then have to have them retuned when travelling on gas outside the NT.
Needless to say I am not happy Jan and will be contacting somebody to to complain i think servos selling Gas in NT should have notice to this effect on browsers
Hi David
The real people who will have an effect on this will be the
http://gasenergyaustralia.asn.au/
I for one will be now aware ... thanks for the valuable input..
Norm
KeenTravellers
Hmm NOT GOOD aussietraveller,, I have been a Duel Fuel guy since the 1980's Where abouts in N.T. did this happen, ?? I was all around Ayes Rock, Kings Canyon, and surrounds 3 years ago, and had No problems with any of the Lpg, [ did not like the price at times, ] But the car i had then [ Mazda Tribute + 16' poptop ] ran like a dream, no problems at all,, I now have a 2011 Colorado fact/fitted duel fuel and a 19'6'' Lotus full van ] and next year I will be travelling further up into the N.T. so your story is of some interest and concern to me ??
I see you have a Pajero, which if fitted with the LPG approved engine are a good tow vehicle, is your Gas system Direct Injected ?? or is it the Old style Venturi system,?? As the venturi systems were famous for blowing the boxes, and also blowing off some of the hoses ?/ especially if they were not kept well tuned, and fitted with the High Temp Leads ??
I will follow any information you get with interest, ? as I said i am going back up there next year,, Good luck with your outcome..
You will find in most country areas in Australia there is no Auto gas only Propane. The same tanker fills the servo & the local pubs & Hospitals. Where I live that's all you get & ive never had any problems using it, or when ive filled up in Adelaide with Auto gas. A properly running vehicle should have no problems.
I have had a Diesel/Gas system fitted to our HDJ79 Ute for 8 years and just recently travelled from SA to Tennant Ck
and filled up with Gas twice before turning east to Qld without any problems or performance issues. All around Aust the mix percentages of
Butane with the Propane varies with States, Localities, Seasons (ie Temps because if 100% Butane, vehicles would not operate below -0.5 degrees
the Liquid Gas will not Boil Off so Autogas always has a mix of Propane in it).
I would find it hard to believe that the Gas suppliers would supply a 100% Propane mix for vehicles as "This would cause major problems"
as the Butane has a Higher Calorific Heat Value and as such is used and always needed to raise the Octane rating of the Autogas.
Autogas is always a mix of these two gases and not just one or the other.
Cheers Kev.
Not according to the tanker driver I quizedwhen filling tanks localy & said it was all Propane & it works fine in vehicles.
Australia is one of the largest producers of LPG - We export over 3.5 Bil / Lt per year?
So why do we pay the high prices here in Oz -
its not transport and using LPG is almost carbon free. so much for the carbon tax..
In Thailand recently they pay less than 50cAUS p/ltr AutoLPG? yep cheap eh...
Why the high price in Oz -
Purely because they can get away with it and no one says anything..
including the Governement.
Here is a Note Shell web site on LPG - Quote:-
"Automotive LPG, automix or autogas refers to the LPG used for automotive applications.
Automotive LPG consists of a mix of propane and butane, whereas domestic, industrial and commercial LPG is predominantly propane.
Generally, the autogas sold by Shell is a mixture of propane (C3 or 3 carbon atoms) and butane (C4 or 4 carbon atoms).
Depending on the source of the auto LPG and how it has been produced, other components may also be present.
To ensure that the auto LPG you receive is of a consistent high quality, detailed specifications are laid down.
Every batch of auto LPG is rigorously tested to ensure that it always meets the appropriate specification."
The last sentence I dont really believe ...
After being overseas recently - Australia definately is one of the dearest places to live
But - its still the best... by far..
Norm
KT
A Servo owner told me once that the gas delivered to their servo was from the same truck which filled both their vehicle and gas bottle tanks, he swore both used the same gas ???? Oh, but a difference in prices, more expensive for the decanted gas for gas bottles.
Country GAS is ALL Propane...
Back when I had the XF Panel Van I paid a nice amount of $$ to have a custom built Pure Gas Motor built.. 3/4 Race Cam Oversize Valve etc.. I think you get the idea..
- The Motor on the Dyno after it was run it put out 60% more power than the original spec's on the current petrol Motor.. Was Running a GAS RESEARCH system back then..
It would Cruse at over 140k's Comfortable.. and if you gave it the Boot it would pickup quickly.. Sucked fuel[> 110l'ks ] like it was going out of fashion But it had the power..
- It ran on Pure Propane beautiful and had to be down graded to run on LPG..
Before the price of gas started to rise over $0.25c / Lt the general mix of the gas was higher in Propane than what we have now.. and a Few Spot's sold Propane for 1c more..
Now the LPG is very Suspect except when you get out of the major city's..
Juergen..
Psst make sure that you clean up the Filter on a regular basis as they do fill up with a lovely Black gunk..
Is no LPG at
Wycliffe Well NT
Many have been caught out there.
BP along the coast of Qld are closing down LPG pumps due to some OHS conditions.
Was informed that LPG & Diesel only pumps stations are to be established.
A new condition of use will be "All passengers must be out of vehicle while filling"
Sorry, I can't be more specific, but is what a BP Service Station manager informed me last month in Qld.
Prior to leaving home I had a workshop do a number of things to ensure that I didn't have problems on the road this included new Platinum Plugs new high tension leads and new seals ib the spark plug tubes,
An experienced mechanic who did a lot of LPG conversions up here found that there was oil in the spark plug tube which means that it was shorting out and causing the back fire so either one or more seals have failed or the job was not done properly, tug still drivable on petrol as requires not as strong a spark so it will be petrol only going home as to get the job done was going to cost $800 approx and couldn't be done for three weeks.
LPG IN THE NORTHERN TERRITORY IS NOT THE PROBLEM
Glad you finaly found the trouble.
Hey David
I sent off an email to the The Gas Energy Australia Association and their replay about LPG in the NT was as Follows
Thank you for your email. In relation to your questions, the quality of all transport fuel is regulated federally not state by state. This includes Autogas no matter where it is sold including the Northern Territory. It must comply with the specifications outlined in the regulation. http://www.environment.gov.au/topics/environment-protection/fuel-quality/standards/autogas . Autogas consists of propane or a mix of propane and butane and depending on where you are in Australia can vary slightly in the mix, however the Autogas product must conform to the requirements of the Fuel Quality Standard Act 2000.
The Department of Environment has a Monitoring, Compliance and Enforcement Program with the details available on the department website and there is a section where members of the public can lodge a complaint regarding fuel quality. http://www.environment.gov.au/webform/make-fuel-quality-complaint
Thanks again for your question.
Regards
Vivien Lai
So hope this sheds some light on the the topic for you.
Cheers
KT