Can anyone out there tell me what temp. range my wheel bearings should run at?
I have a small pop top with a few changes. It is a single axle with 15" wheels and light truck tyres.
Fully loaded it would be about a tonne, (I think) but have not weighed it fully loaded yet.
As some of you might remember I did a trial run up to Brissie (from Canberra) last Feb. and on my way home one wheel bearing gave way and the wheel headed bush, which resulted in under van damage and side/rear wall damage. All repaired and I'm ready to leave on BIG trip in 3 weeks time.
Even though all running gear was new when catastrophe hit (only 1,500 klms travelled) and is new again...I'm a bit paranoid and am constantly checking the temp with an infrared gun. Last week they were at 42degC and 54 degC after about 50 klms.
What can the Brains Trust tell me? Thanks guys.
Baz421 said
08:58 PM Jun 22, 2014
Well you've stumped me sarg. I go around and feel each hub and they are not too hot for my hand so I would guess slightly above 40-45 deg.
What I am really looking for is any differential where 1 is very hot and the other 3 are "normal".
Outside air temp has an effect on tyre and difference between tyres on cold/hot days was about 5 deg C.
I would direct my attention to checking wheel bearings for excessive play when I get the van, after say 1000k and then annually.
You will hear stories about repacking bearing annually,,, our van is 7 years old and bearings had 1st repack 4 months ago, BUT I always check adjustment regularly. Apart from insufficient grease when packed and water, incorrect adjustment is about the only thing that "normally" goes wrong.
I am qualified mechanic and worked on heavy vehicles for years.
Wombat 280 said
10:18 PM Jun 22, 2014
Mate who has a workshop tells me that overtightened bearings will result in failure and overheating , he has no info on average running temp but suggest that they may have been over tight or improperly packed with grease or bugger all grease at all which is a common fault even on brand new rigs . Mate lost a wheel in the same circumstances after pick up from the dealer.
Aus-Kiwi said
11:29 PM Jun 22, 2014
I would say the hub shouldn't be only warm that you can hold your hand on it.. There are some cheap bearings around these days..
Lawson said
08:45 AM Jun 23, 2014
Make sure they are high quality bearings from Japan or America and NOT Chinese also use marine seals
Dennis L
_wombat_ said
09:02 AM Jun 23, 2014
we have had our van 11 years now prior to that we had a boat, with the boat I put bearing buddies on each wheel and just pumped grease in after a fishing trip, with the van I also put bearing buddies on and pump grease in once a year, if you do fit the BB make sure you get the ones with the hole in the side to release some grease when its full otherwise you may push the rear seal from the back of the wheel.
I will look for the contact details of the guy in Perth who sells them and get back here later, he will post anywhere.
BTW I have NEVER replaced my bearings.
Baz421 said
10:36 AM Jun 23, 2014
Aus-Kiwi wrote:
I would say the hub shouldn't be only warm that you can hold your hand on it..
Not sure what you are saying here,,, are you saying they should be hotter??????
Baz421 said
10:39 AM Jun 23, 2014
Wombat 280 wrote:
Mate who has a workshop tells me that overtightened bearings will result in failure and overheating , he has no info on average running temp but suggest that they may have been over tight or improperly packed with grease or bugger all grease at all which is a common fault even on brand new rigs . Mate lost a wheel in the same circumstances after pick up from the dealer.
Too true,,, not many with experience in hand packing bearings around IMHO,,, so who teaches the apprentices???????? How many workshops have bearing packers????
Agree that lack of grease when manufactured appears to be common,,, saves money doesn't it,, plus if you don't know to pack em = problems for us all.
sarg said
01:56 PM Jun 23, 2014
_wombat_ wrote:
I also put bearing buddies on and pump grease in once a year, if you do fit the BB make sure you get the ones with the hole in the side to release some grease when its full otherwise you may push the rear seal from the back of the wheel.
I will look for the contact details of the guy in Perth who sells them and get back here later,
Wombat, I do have bearing Buddies fitted, but don't know the brand of Bearings either.
I think that down the road I will put a new set on and make sure that I have good quality bearings. I spose ya can't be too careful.
oldbobsbus said
03:16 PM Jun 23, 2014
sarg wrote:
_wombat_ wrote:
I also put bearing buddies on and pump grease in once a year, if you do fit the BB make sure you get the ones with the hole in the side to release some grease when its full otherwise you may push the rear seal from the back of the wheel.
I will look for the contact details of the guy in Perth who sells them and get back here later,
Wombat, I do have bearing Buddies fitted, but don't know the brand of Bearings either.
I think that down the road I will put a new set on and make sure that I have good quality bearings. I spose ya can't be too careful.
In my opinion BB are a waste of money, if the bearings are hand packed properly in the first place and fitted properly they will give 1000's of kls of trouble free service, they shouldn't need pumping up as BB's are designed to do..
Here is how I do it:-
1. Obtain a quality set of Timken bearing.
2. Obtain a 500g tub of quality High Temp Bearing grease (Castrol HTB Grease or equivalent)
3. Wash the bearings thoroughly in clean petrol twice and dry out with compressed air. and then knock the cones into the hubs being sure they have a thin coat of grease to make then go in properly.
4. be sure your both hands are also completely clean as well.
5. Dip all 4 fingers of your right hand into the grease and take a good handful put the grease into the palm of your left hand and proceed to force the grease through the bearing from the large edge untill it appears ozzing out of the opposite side and between the rollers with a wiping action through the grease and across your hand rotation the bearing untill you have been right around it , do this for all bearings and place them on a dust free surface untill all bearings are packed being sure to keep your left hand topped up with grease.
6. Put a reasonable amount of grease into the center of the hub but DO NOT fill it, place the inner cup into the hub and then go and wash your hands.. fit the seals.
7. put the hub onto the axle and then push the outer cone and bearing into place and put the safety washer and nut on.
8. tighten the nut as tight as you can with a standard ring spanner then give the hub a few good hits with a hammer and punch to be sure all cones are seated retighten the nut ... if it goes up more then repeat the process untill the nut doesn't go up any more.
9. this is a very important process... loosen the nut about 1/4 to 1/2 turn or untill the hub spins freely.. no more.. Pin the nut at the next available spot. put a small amount of grease into the cap and the job is finished...
10. After a short run (20kls) the wheels should still be as cool as a cucumber so long as you haven't used excessive breaking..
Now some of you may do it slightly different but that method has worked for me since I was a 14yr old apprentice (61yrs ago)..
-- Edited by oldbobsbus on Monday 23rd of June 2014 03:19:14 PM
Santa said
03:39 PM Jun 23, 2014
oldbobsbus wrote:
sarg wrote:
_wombat_ wrote:
I also put bearing buddies on and pump grease in once a year, if you do fit the BB make sure you get the ones with the hole in the side to release some grease when its full otherwise you may push the rear seal from the back of the wheel.
I will look for the contact details of the guy in Perth who sells them and get back here later,
Wombat, I do have bearing Buddies fitted, but don't know the brand of Bearings either.
I think that down the road I will put a new set on and make sure that I have good quality bearings. I spose ya can't be too careful.
In my opinion BB are a waste of money, if the bearings are hand packed properly in the first place and fitted properly they will give 1000's of kls of trouble free service, they shouldn't need pumping up as BB's are designed to do..
Here is how I do it:-
1. Obtain a quality set of Timken bearing.
2. Obtain a 500g tub of quality High Temp Bearing grease (Castrol HTB Grease or equivalent)
3. Wash the bearings thoroughly in clean petrol twice and dry out with compressed air. and then knock the cones into the hubs being sure they have a thin coat of grease to make then go in properly.
4. be sure your both hands are also completely clean as well.
5. Dip all 4 fingers of your right hand into the grease and take a good handful put the grease into the palm of your left hand and proceed to force the grease through the bearing from the large edge untill it appears ozzing out of the opposite side and between the rollers with a wiping action through the grease and across your hand rotation the bearing untill you have been right around it , do this for all bearings and place them on a dust free surface untill all bearings are packed being sure to keep your left hand topped up with grease.
6. Put a reasonable amount of grease into the center of the hub but DO NOT fill it, place the inner cup into the hub and then go and wash your hands.. fit the seals.
7. put the hub onto the axle and then push the outer cone and bearing into place and put the safety washer and nut on.
8. tighten the nut as tight as you can with a standard ring spanner then give the hub a few good hits with a hammer and punch to be sure all cones are seated retighten the nut ... if it goes up more then repeat the process untill the nut doesn't go up any more.
9. this is a very important process... loosen the nut about 1/4 to 1/2 turn or untill the hub spins freely.. no more.. Pin the nut at the next available spot. put a small amount of grease into the cap and the job is finished...
10. After a short run (20kls) the wheels should still be as cool as a cucumber so long as you haven't used excessive breaking..
Now some of you may do it slightly different but that method has worked for me since I was a 14yr old apprentice (61yrs ago)..
-- Edited by oldbobsbus on Monday 23rd of June 2014 03:19:14 PM
Exactly the way I was shown how to pack bearings, about a hundred years ago.
Have never had one fail.
grahos said
03:48 PM Jun 23, 2014
I remember years ago I was told the front passenger wheel on a Holden car would collapse, the person assembling the right hand wheel was using grease, the guy assembling the left hand wheel was never told to use grease until all the recalls came back
-- Edited by grahos on Monday 23rd of June 2014 03:52:43 PM
_wombat_ said
04:00 PM Jun 23, 2014
oldbobsbus wrote:
sarg wrote:
_wombat_ wrote:
I also put bearing buddies on and pump grease in once a year, if you do fit the BB make sure you get the ones with the hole in the side to release some grease when its full otherwise you may push the rear seal from the back of the wheel.
I will look for the contact details of the guy in Perth who sells them and get back here later,
Wombat, I do have bearing Buddies fitted, but don't know the brand of Bearings either.
I think that down the road I will put a new set on and make sure that I have good quality bearings. I spose ya can't be too careful.
In my opinion BB are a waste of money, if the bearings are hand packed properly in the first place and fitted properly they will give 1000's of kls of trouble free service, they shouldn't need pumping up as BB's are designed to do..
Here is how I do it:-
1. Obtain a quality set of Timken bearing.
2. Obtain a 500g tub of quality High Temp Bearing grease (Castrol HTB Grease or equivalent)
3. Wash the bearings thoroughly in clean petrol twice and dry out with compressed air. and then knock the cones into the hubs being sure they have a thin coat of grease to make then go in properly.
4. be sure your both hands are also completely clean as well.
5. Dip all 4 fingers of your right hand into the grease and take a good handful put the grease into the palm of your left hand and proceed to force the grease through the bearing from the large edge untill it appears ozzing out of the opposite side and between the rollers with a wiping action through the grease and across your hand rotation the bearing untill you have been right around it , do this for all bearings and place them on a dust free surface untill all bearings are packed being sure to keep your left hand topped up with grease.
6. Put a reasonable amount of grease into the center of the hub but DO NOT fill it, place the inner cup into the hub and then go and wash your hands.. fit the seals.
7. put the hub onto the axle and then push the outer cone and bearing into place and put the safety washer and nut on.
8. tighten the nut as tight as you can with a standard ring spanner then give the hub a few good hits with a hammer and punch to be sure all cones are seated retighten the nut ... if it goes up more then repeat the process untill the nut doesn't go up any more.
9. this is a very important process... loosen the nut about 1/4 to 1/2 turn or untill the hub spins freely.. no more.. Pin the nut at the next available spot. put a small amount of grease into the cap and the job is finished...
10. After a short run (20kls) the wheels should still be as cool as a cucumber so long as you haven't used excessive breaking..
Now some of you may do it slightly different but that method has worked for me since I was a 14yr old apprentice (61yrs ago)..
-- Edited by oldbobsbus on Monday 23rd of June 2014 03:19:14 PM
Bob, sorry to disagree with you and I do respect your opinion but the method I have used over the years works for me, I believe BB's work for me. IMHO
The way you describe is the way a apprentice would be trained and there is nothing wrong with that.
oldbobsbus said
04:33 PM Jun 23, 2014
_wombat_ wrote:
Bob, sorry to disagree with you and I do respect your opinion but the method I have used over the years works for me, I believe BB's work for me. IMHO
The way you describe is the way a apprentice would be trained and there is nothing wrong with that.
The problem with BB's as I see it, is they only service the outer bearing and unless the hub was assembled properly in the first place you have NFI if the inners are getting any grease at all..unless of course you force enough grease in to push the seal out..
This is borne out by the OP's problem and I will bet London to a brick on... that the hubs weren't assembled as I have described... reason being it requires the person doing it to get their hands dirty..
Cupie said
04:43 PM Jun 23, 2014
My 1999 2.4 ton Jayco is still on its original bearings after >200,000km. No discoloring or visible wear.
At around 10,000km or sooner if I have a slow year, I clean & repack the taper bearings but not the inner ones. I only wipe out the grease & force new stuff into the rear/inner ones.
I follow the general process outlined by Bob but probably put in too much grease. I learnt from an old mate around 50 years ago who was a DIY expert before the term was invented.
The only other test that I do is to take a run around the block & then check that the wheel spins freely but there is no free play when holding the wheel at top & bottom.
On the next trip after a repack, I stop after 50 k or so & check temperature for overheating & freeplay. If they are all the same & I can hold my hand on the hub comfortably it's OK. In fact I have developed the habit of checking the temp at every stop.
PJK said
04:43 PM Jun 23, 2014
I have always used bearing buddies on my boat trailers, because you could be sure the spring loaded grease plate would fill the bearings and keep the water out. Not so important on caravans unless you are doing creek or flood way crossings.
Totally agree with Oldbobsbus method of greasing wheel bearings, but if you don't have that knowledge the BB will help you out. If using BBs,only use the ones with the grease discharge in the side because not only do they tell you when the hub is full, it will also relieve grease pressure if the bearings do overheat from too much grease.
Regards
Peter PJK
-- Edited by PJK on Monday 23rd of June 2014 04:44:39 PM
SnowT said
04:49 PM Jun 23, 2014
Hey Bob they do now have a tool that will force the grease thru the bearing's for you...
But you still need to handle them so that it's done right.
Juergen
oldbobsbus said
05:28 PM Jun 23, 2014
SnowT wrote:
Hey Bob they do now have a tool that will force the grease thru the bearing's for you... But you still need to handle them so that it's done right.
Juergen
Yep Juergen, I have used the bearing packers and still prefer to do it by hand, I guess thats just the way I was taught "Do it properly once and forget it" and that goes for anything I do..
I currently have a mechanic looking at a car for me that has an oil leak, I told him in the first place 2mths ago that the timing chain cover seal needs replacing and he has tried everything else except pulling it down and replacing the seal on the timing case.....
Guess what..
Today he informs me the oil leak is coming from the timing case and he needs to pull it off and replace it..
Mind you he has already charged me to stop the oil leak and he is now doing it at his expense.. I am just without a car, but thats ok becoz it is our tow behind 4WD when we travel..
learmo said
09:33 PM Jun 23, 2014
I use the Dura hub oil bath system on my boat and trailer hubs. Bearings last forever. Never run hot, and never really need to be checked. Oil can be viewed through sight glass for any change in colour.
Best value for money in my opinion. Especially on boat trailer. (Same set of bearings for 4 years now)
Olley46 said
09:46 PM Jun 23, 2014
I was told by a old time mechanic the old way of greasing was to repack the two bearings and fill the hub with grease,they found in time and by a few experts explaining that to mutch grease causes to mutch heat to mutch heat causes bearing failure,the new way was to repack the bearings and little grease in the hub,that's the way I do mine never had a problem,as far as BB,S go I agree with a previest post they only grease the outer bearing.
Lance C
_wombat_ said
09:58 PM Jun 23, 2014
I still prefer to use the BB's because of my experience with them over 10 years and no complaints, but others have their way of doing things, and it would be a bloody strange world if we all did the same thing, so go with whatever you feel best with that is my suggestion.
Aus-Kiwi said
11:37 PM Jun 23, 2014
Sheesh it doesn't matter as long as they get grease.. The HQ Holden way back had issues with seals and wrong type grease for water penetration .. The changed the grease to water resistant and better seals.. I was an GM apprentice back then !!
seeing the op mentioned temps ? If its too,hot to hold your hand on it ? It's too hot .
-- Edited by Aus-Kiwi on Monday 23rd of June 2014 11:41:52 PM
sarg said
06:47 AM Jun 24, 2014
Thanks Guys. A lot of good information here that I can use.
Cloak said
08:58 AM Jun 24, 2014
As for temps a recent episode of outback truckers had a bloke measuring his bearing temps with an IR probe and said never let them get over 60C....
sarg said
07:29 AM Jun 25, 2014
Thanks Cloak...I spose that is still on the warm range..
Can anyone out there tell me what temp. range my wheel bearings should run at?
I have a small pop top with a few changes. It is a single axle with 15" wheels and light truck tyres.
Fully loaded it would be about a tonne, (I think) but have not weighed it fully loaded yet.
As some of you might remember I did a trial run up to Brissie (from Canberra) last Feb. and on my way home one wheel bearing gave way and the wheel headed bush, which resulted in under van damage and side/rear wall damage. All repaired and I'm ready to leave on BIG trip in 3 weeks time.
Even though all running gear was new when catastrophe hit (only 1,500 klms travelled) and is new again...I'm a bit paranoid and am constantly checking the temp with an infrared gun. Last week they were at 42degC and 54 degC after about 50 klms.
What can the Brains Trust tell me? Thanks guys.
Well you've stumped me sarg. I go around and feel each hub and they are not too hot for my hand so I would guess slightly above 40-45 deg.
What I am really looking for is any differential where 1 is very hot and the other 3 are "normal".
Outside air temp has an effect on tyre and difference between tyres on cold/hot days was about 5 deg C.
I would direct my attention to checking wheel bearings for excessive play when I get the van, after say 1000k and then annually.
You will hear stories about repacking bearing annually,,, our van is 7 years old and bearings had 1st repack 4 months ago, BUT I always check adjustment regularly. Apart from insufficient grease when packed and water, incorrect adjustment is about the only thing that "normally" goes wrong.
I am qualified mechanic and worked on heavy vehicles for years.
Dennis L
we have had our van 11 years now prior to that we had a boat, with the boat I put bearing buddies on each wheel and just pumped grease in after a fishing trip, with the van I also put bearing buddies on and pump grease in once a year, if you do fit the BB make sure you get the ones with the hole in the side to release some grease when its full otherwise you may push the rear seal from the back of the wheel.
I will look for the contact details of the guy in Perth who sells them and get back here later, he will post anywhere.
BTW I have NEVER replaced my bearings.
Not sure what you are saying here,,, are you saying they should be hotter??????
Too true,,, not many with experience in hand packing bearings around IMHO,,, so who teaches the apprentices???????? How many workshops have bearing packers????
Agree that lack of grease when manufactured appears to be common,,, saves money doesn't it,, plus if you don't know to pack em = problems for us all.
Wombat, I do have bearing Buddies fitted, but don't know the brand of Bearings either.
I think that down the road I will put a new set on and make sure that I have good quality bearings. I spose ya can't be too careful.
In my opinion BB are a waste of money, if the bearings are hand packed properly in the first place and fitted properly they will give 1000's of kls of trouble free service, they shouldn't need pumping up as BB's are designed to do..
Here is how I do it:-
1. Obtain a quality set of Timken bearing.
2. Obtain a 500g tub of quality High Temp Bearing grease (Castrol HTB Grease or equivalent)
3. Wash the bearings thoroughly in clean petrol twice and dry out with compressed air. and then knock the cones into the hubs being sure they have a thin coat of grease to make then go in properly.
4. be sure your both hands are also completely clean as well.
5. Dip all 4 fingers of your right hand into the grease and take a good handful put the grease into the palm of your left hand and proceed to force the grease through the bearing from the large edge untill it appears ozzing out of the opposite side and between the rollers with a wiping action through the grease and across your hand rotation the bearing untill you have been right around it , do this for all bearings and place them on a dust free surface untill all bearings are packed being sure to keep your left hand topped up with grease.
6. Put a reasonable amount of grease into the center of the hub but DO NOT fill it, place the inner cup into the hub and then go and wash your hands..
fit the seals.
7. put the hub onto the axle and then push the outer cone and bearing into place and put the safety washer and nut on.
8. tighten the nut as tight as you can with a standard ring spanner then give the hub a few good hits with a hammer and punch to be sure all cones are seated retighten the nut ... if it goes up more then repeat the process untill the nut doesn't go up any more.
9. this is a very important process... loosen the nut about 1/4 to 1/2 turn or untill the hub spins freely.. no more.. Pin the nut at the next available spot. put a small amount of grease into the cap and the job is finished...
10. After a short run (20kls) the wheels should still be as cool as a cucumber so long as you haven't used excessive breaking..
Now some of you may do it slightly different but that method has worked for me since I was a 14yr old apprentice (61yrs ago)..
-- Edited by oldbobsbus on Monday 23rd of June 2014 03:19:14 PM
Exactly the way I was shown how to pack bearings, about a hundred years ago.
Have never had one fail.
I remember years ago I was told the front passenger wheel on a Holden car would collapse,
the person assembling the right hand wheel was using grease,
the guy assembling the left hand wheel was never told to use grease until all the recalls came back
-- Edited by grahos on Monday 23rd of June 2014 03:52:43 PM
Bob, sorry to disagree with you and I do respect your opinion but the method I have used over the years works for me, I believe BB's work for me. IMHO
The way you describe is the way a apprentice would be trained and there is nothing wrong with that.
The problem with BB's as I see it, is they only service the outer bearing and unless the hub was assembled properly in the first place you have NFI if the inners are getting any grease at all..unless of course you force enough grease in to push the seal out..
This is borne out by the OP's problem and I will bet London to a brick on... that the hubs weren't assembled as I have described... reason being it requires the person doing it to get their hands dirty..
My 1999 2.4 ton Jayco is still on its original bearings after >200,000km. No discoloring or visible wear.
At around 10,000km or sooner if I have a slow year, I clean & repack the taper bearings but not the inner ones. I only wipe out the grease & force new stuff into the rear/inner ones.
I follow the general process outlined by Bob but probably put in too much grease. I learnt from an old mate around 50 years ago who was a DIY expert before the term was invented.
The only other test that I do is to take a run around the block & then check that the wheel spins freely but there is no free play when holding the wheel at top & bottom.
On the next trip after a repack, I stop after 50 k or so & check temperature for overheating & freeplay. If they are all the same & I can hold my hand on the hub comfortably it's OK. In fact I have developed the habit of checking the temp at every stop.
I have always used bearing buddies on my boat trailers, because you could be sure the spring loaded grease plate would fill the bearings and keep the water out.
Not so important on caravans unless you are doing creek or flood way crossings.
Totally agree with Oldbobsbus method of greasing wheel bearings, but if you don't have that knowledge the BB will help you out.
If using BBs,only use the ones with the grease discharge in the side because not only do they tell you when the hub is full, it will also relieve grease pressure if the bearings do overheat from too much grease.
Regards
Peter
PJK
-- Edited by PJK on Monday 23rd of June 2014 04:44:39 PM
But you still need to handle them so that it's done right.
Juergen
Yep Juergen, I have used the bearing packers and still prefer to do it by hand, I guess thats just the way I was taught "Do it properly once and forget it" and that goes for anything I do..
I currently have a mechanic looking at a car for me that has an oil leak, I told him in the first place 2mths ago that the timing chain cover seal needs replacing and he has tried everything else except pulling it down and replacing the seal on the timing case.....
Guess what..
Today he informs me the oil leak is coming from the timing case and he needs to pull it off and replace it..
Mind you he has already charged me to stop the oil leak and he is now doing it at his expense..
I am just without a car, but thats ok becoz it is our tow behind 4WD when we travel..
Best value for money in my opinion. Especially on boat trailer. (Same set of bearings for 4 years now)
I was told by a old time mechanic the old way of greasing was to repack the two bearings and fill the hub with grease,they found in time and by a few experts explaining that to mutch grease causes to mutch heat to mutch heat causes bearing failure,the new way was to repack the bearings and little grease in the hub,that's the way I do mine never had a problem,as far as BB,S go I agree with a previest post they only grease the outer bearing.
Lance C
I still prefer to use the BB's because of my experience with them over 10 years and no complaints, but others have their way of doing things, and it would be a bloody strange world if we all did the same thing, so go with whatever you feel best with that is my suggestion.
Sheesh it doesn't matter as long as they get grease.. The HQ Holden way back had issues with seals and wrong type grease for water penetration .. The changed the grease to water resistant and better seals.. I was an GM apprentice back then !!
seeing the op mentioned temps ? If its too,hot to hold your hand on it ? It's too hot .
-- Edited by Aus-Kiwi on Monday 23rd of June 2014 11:41:52 PM