Hi, Just went to look at new and secondhand vans today and got told the new rules are: if you have a fridge, hot water, or gas on the side of the van where the annexe is you can no longer enclose the annexe with canvas sides. what will happen to the canvas making businesses? they have vans like this for sale both new and secondhand and if they are secondhand they can no longer sell it with canvas sides and if you now buy a van like this you can never have that extra room. We wanted a van that could have the sides so we could stay for extended periods in a bit of comfort but the van we like is in the "we won't buy catagory now" .
the van we liked had the layout of : walk in door, club lounge on left, turn right and on right there was a lovely fridge that was on the same wall as the annexe. kitchen on other side. what do you think?
-- Edited by the rocket on Saturday 14th of June 2014 06:20:57 PM
NeilandRaine said
03:39 PM Jun 14, 2014
I could probably be wrong but most vans I have seen appear to have HWS fridge and Loo on the right side and gas is on draw bar or in boot.............. But I could be wrong. again
Roving-Dutchy said
03:57 PM Jun 14, 2014
Like many petty rules made by seat polishing bureaucrats, you just do what you want to do and ignore them, it's your van, you set it up the way you want.
Cheers
David
Oz Gypsy said
04:26 PM Jun 14, 2014
Roving-Dutchy wrote:
Like many petty rules made by seat polishing bureaucrats, you just do what you want to do and ignore them, it's your van, you set it up the way you want. Cheers David
Hmm ?? and you do have all the facts and figures- ?? Re all the documented deaths that have occured, over the last 50 - 60 years, Before this Law was bought into place ??
-- Edited by dazren on Saturday 14th of June 2014 05:08:08 PM
D and D said
05:16 PM Jun 14, 2014
Is there a law about this? If there is what's the citation?
Big Gorilla said
05:32 PM Jun 14, 2014
More red tape. If it's real, who is gonna enforce it...
oldbobsbus said
05:56 PM Jun 14, 2014
Big Gorilla wrote:
More red tape. If it's real, who is gonna enforce it...
If it is a new regulation then the ones that will be most interested in it are the insurance companies it will give them another reason to not pay...
Having said that I would think it wouldn't be very wise to enclose a fridge or HWS in the annex...
villatranquilla said
06:56 PM Jun 14, 2014
I like the idea of the fridge under the awning - gets shaded in summer - but then we don't have a full annex
Sharke said
07:35 PM Jun 14, 2014
I spoke to freind who is a licensed gas fitter & works in the caravan industry. he says you cant use gas appliances or have a gas storage compartment under a enclosed annex or store gas bottles in a enclosed annex.
Cheers
Jeff
Bas + Eve said
08:02 PM Jun 14, 2014
What public servant boffin is going to police this? what a load of tripe.
rockylizard said
08:13 PM Jun 14, 2014
Gday...
I think the following would be three fairly representative examples of the types of canvas annexes that most people would use.
Surely, having a fridge, or heater, or stove inside one of these running on gas could not possibly be dangerous - except for any possible fire danger perhaps.
I doubt if any of these would have anything like 'restricted airflow' to cause any potential danger of suffocation using a gas appliance.
Cheers - John
Vic41 said
08:14 PM Jun 14, 2014
the rocket wrote:
the van we liked had the layout of : walk in door, club lounge on left, turn right and on right there was a lovely fridge that was on the same wall as the annexe. kitchen on other side. what do you think?
The fridge outside wall vent expels hot air doesn't it? If this was the case wouldn't that mean you will have hot air coming into your annex in summer? May help to warm up the annexe in winter though
Bevandy2 said
10:42 PM Jun 14, 2014
Safety first guys, not just a bureaucratic blast.
This is about gas exhausts in an enclosed space. Just as you need ventilation in an enclosed space that operates a gas appliance, ie, those vents in the bottom of the van door and on the walls etc, you also need an open space for the exhaust, inside the van you get away with the gas stove because of those vents, but a fridge and HWS may be operating a lot more than a cooker, we all know you have good ventilation in your annex (don't you?) but the law doesn't know, so they have to come up with these rules, like a good Nanny, to save us from ourselves.
Also, insurance is a real issue, not to be taken lightly.
I worked for Kleenheat in WA for 31 years, and in the seventies laws were changed to stop installing unflued gas heaters in bathrooms, after several deaths. An enclosed annex is the same scenario.
Anyway, our van, and I think most others, do have the fridge vented to the starboard side. If yours is not, just have some airflow through the annex. We had an annex once, I do believe it had a ventilation screen anyway.
You certainly wouldn't want to have anyone sleeping in an annex if there is a gas appliance exhaust blowing into it, big No No folks. A clean fuel, but still produces some carbon monoxide, and CO2, depletes the atmosphere of healthy air.
Take care,
Bevan
Mousey said
05:00 AM Jun 15, 2014
sounds a bit like a imported van wrong way round most go the left hand side
scooner said
06:00 AM Jun 15, 2014
absolutely agree Bevan,
_wombat_ said
09:42 AM Jun 15, 2014
rockylizard wrote:
Gday...
I think the following would be three fairly representative examples of the types of canvas annexes that most people would use.
Surely, having a fridge, or heater, or stove inside one of these running on gas could not possibly be dangerous - except for any possible fire danger perhaps.
I doubt if any of these would have anything like 'restricted airflow' to cause any potential danger of suffocation using a gas appliance.
Cheers - John
John, I do get your point but it looks like all these vans are in C/p's and would be on power not gas, I do agree with you that having a fridge, or heater, or stove inside one of these running on gas could not possibly be dangerous - except for any possible fire danger perhaps.
kesa32 said
09:58 AM Jun 15, 2014
Maybe detectors ( both fire and gas ) should be used , that and a bit of ventilation should be adequate , a lot of people use annexes and
rather than ban them , just bring about awareness and ways to safely use them rather than a total ban as people will still use them regardless in most cases anyway
rockylizard said
10:02 AM Jun 15, 2014
Gday...
The point of the photos was NOT to show WHERE they van was situated ..........just to show what a full annex looks like.
It is all a moot point I guess. It only takes ONE instance of a death in an annex and the overpowering Nanny State will kick in.
But back to the OP - if the fridge and HWS are vented into the annex side, this is probably a thoughtless design by the van maker. The solution is to not buy a van that has been thoughtlessly designed if you are going to be using a FULL annex, otherwise, what's the problem
Cheers - John
_wombat_ said
10:11 AM Jun 15, 2014
rockylizard wrote:
Gday...
The point of the photos was NOT to show WHERE they van was situated ..........just to show what a full annex looks like.
It is all a moot point I guess. It only takes ONE instance of a death in an annex and the overpowering Nanny State will kick in.
But back to the OP - if the fridge and HWS are vented into the annex side, this is probably a thoughtless design by the van maker. The solution is to not buy a van that has been thoughtlessly designed if you are going to be using a FULL annex, otherwise, what's the problem
Cheers - John
That is why I said in part 'I do get your point' most people would know what an annex looks like.
I have used an annex for years and never had a problem and yes my fridge is on the annex side, however there could be a problem if one is using gas and you are parked right next door and there is a fire, would one be able to claim on their insurance or would one claim on your own insurance?
And you would find that their insurance would not pay theirs let alone yours.
deverall11 said
11:14 AM Jun 15, 2014
Our annex is NOWHERE near being air tight. Don't think we will ever get gassed in those conditions.
Again, another case of some useless bureaucrat justifying their employment. How many of those clowns have ANY experience with caravaning?
Larry
_wombat_ said
11:51 AM Jun 15, 2014
deverall11 wrote:
Our annex is NOWHERE near being air tight. Don't think we will ever get gassed in those conditions. Again, another case of some useless bureaucrat justifying their employment. How many of those clowns have ANY experience with caravaning? Larry
none would be my guess
Joe50 said
12:39 PM Jun 15, 2014
I'm getting an external bayonet gas fitting installed as part of my Hino's fit-out, and was told that under the new rules (effective from July 1 if I remember correctly) that it cannot be located below an awning, whether an annexe is fitted as well or not.
NeilandRaine said
12:39 PM Jun 15, 2014
sometimes safety must and should be considered. A few years ago a friend was visiting family and the visited kids wanted to sleep in the van as it was something new.
Both kids died overnight because of a faulty fitted gas appliance.
Isn't it better to save one life out of the thousands that travel in caravans and motor homes than risk yours and complain about new laws.
Gerty Dancer said
01:33 PM Jun 15, 2014
Its a good thing to know in advance if you are buying a caravan, I know most annexes aren't air-tight, but in cold weather people try to make them so, and put various heaters in there.
And always you have to think about insurance, no claim will be paid if you inadvertently do something against a "rule".
Our fridge is vented on the drivers side, and the gas bayonet is fitted on the same side as door/annexe but right at the back of the van so we can cook away from under the awning. I think most vans are fitted this way, so don't worry Rocket, there'll be plenty to choose from.
Gerty Dancer said
01:37 PM Jun 15, 2014
jpw50 wrote:
I'm getting an external bayonet gas fitting installed as part of my Hino's fit-out, and was told that under the new rules (effective from July 1 if I remember correctly) that it cannot be located below an awning, whether an annexe is fitted as well or not.
Hi jpw, we have a bayonet fitting, and have found it takes a bit of wrist/hand strength to plug the gas pipe into it. Best to have the bayonet facing outward instead of downward, so you don't have to bend down and push-turn in an upward direction. (Hope that makes sense?)
Bas + Eve said
04:10 PM Jun 15, 2014
Crikey bloody annexes have been around since Lawrence of Arabia! Seriously, why is it an issue now? Who has been gassed?? you'd have more chance of being gassed to death emptying your cassette toilet than sleeping in a draughty annexe. Wake up you boffin imbeciles.....go pick on someone else!
Bas + Eve said
04:12 PM Jun 15, 2014
NeilandRaine wrote:
sometimes safety must and should be considered. A few years ago a friend was visiting family and the visited kids wanted to sleep in the van as it was something new. Both kids died overnight because of a faulty fitted gas appliance. Isn't it better to save one life out of the thousands that travel in caravans and motor homes than risk yours and complain about new laws.
Where was the compulsory gas detector and who signed the certificate off??
_wombat_ said
04:26 PM Jun 15, 2014
Bas + Eve wrote:
NeilandRaine wrote:
sometimes safety must and should be considered. A few years ago a friend was visiting family and the visited kids wanted to sleep in the van as it was something new. Both kids died overnight because of a faulty fitted gas appliance. Isn't it better to save one life out of the thousands that travel in caravans and motor homes than risk yours and complain about new laws.
Where was the compulsory gas detector and who signed the certificate off??
I did not know the gas detector was compulsory.
Joe50 said
04:57 PM Jun 15, 2014
Gerty Dancer wrote:
Hi jpw, we have a bayonet fitting, and have found it takes a bit of wrist/hand strength to plug the gas pipe into it. Best to have the bayonet facing outward instead of downward, so you don't have to bend down and push-turn in an upward direction. (Hope that makes sense?)
Thanks Gerty, hadn't thought of it being fitted downwards ... assumed that it would be facing outward. Will make a point of mentioning it.
Hi, Just went to look at new and secondhand vans today and got told the new rules are: if you have a fridge, hot water, or gas on the side of the van where the annexe is you can no longer enclose the annexe with canvas sides. what will happen to the canvas making businesses? they have vans like this for sale both new and secondhand and if they are secondhand they can no longer sell it with canvas sides and if you now buy a van like this you can never have that extra room. We wanted a van that could have the sides so we could stay for extended periods in a bit of comfort but the van we like is in the "we won't buy catagory now" .
the van we liked had the layout of : walk in door, club lounge on left, turn right and on right there was a lovely fridge that was on the same wall as the annexe. kitchen on other side. what do you think?
-- Edited by the rocket on Saturday 14th of June 2014 06:20:57 PM
Cheers
David
........... and gas yourself!
Oz gypsy wrote, -----........... and gas yourself
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hmm ?? and you do have all the facts and figures- ?? Re all the documented deaths that have occured, over the last 50 - 60 years, Before this Law was bought into place ??
-- Edited by dazren on Saturday 14th of June 2014 05:08:08 PM
More red tape. If it's real, who is gonna enforce it...
If it is a new regulation then the ones that will be most interested in it are the insurance companies it will give them another reason to not pay...
Having said that I would think it wouldn't be very wise to enclose a fridge or HWS in the annex...
Cheers
Jeff
Gday...
I think the following would be three fairly representative examples of the types of canvas annexes that most people would use.
Surely, having a fridge, or heater, or stove inside one of these running on gas could not possibly be dangerous - except for any possible fire danger perhaps.
I doubt if any of these would have anything like 'restricted airflow' to cause any potential danger of suffocation using a gas appliance.
Cheers - John
The fridge outside wall vent expels hot air doesn't it? If this was the case wouldn't that mean you will have hot air coming into your annex in summer? May help to warm up the annexe in winter though
This is about gas exhausts in an enclosed space. Just as you need ventilation in an enclosed space that operates a gas appliance, ie, those vents in the bottom of the van door and on the walls etc, you also need an open space for the exhaust, inside the van you get away with the gas stove because of those vents, but a fridge and HWS may be operating a lot more than a cooker, we all know you have good ventilation in your annex (don't you?) but the law doesn't know, so they have to come up with these rules, like a good Nanny, to save us from ourselves.
Also, insurance is a real issue, not to be taken lightly.
I worked for Kleenheat in WA for 31 years, and in the seventies laws were changed to stop installing unflued gas heaters in bathrooms, after several deaths. An enclosed annex is the same scenario.
Anyway, our van, and I think most others, do have the fridge vented to the starboard side. If yours is not, just have some airflow through the annex. We had an annex once, I do believe it had a ventilation screen anyway.
You certainly wouldn't want to have anyone sleeping in an annex if there is a gas appliance exhaust blowing into it, big No No folks. A clean fuel, but still produces some carbon monoxide, and CO2, depletes the atmosphere of healthy air.
Take care,
Bevan
sounds a bit like a imported van wrong way round most go the left hand side
John, I do get your point but it looks like all these vans are in C/p's and would be on power not gas, I do agree with you that having a fridge, or heater, or stove inside one of these running on gas could not possibly be dangerous - except for any possible fire danger perhaps.
rather than ban them , just bring about awareness and ways to safely use them rather than a total ban as people will still use them regardless in most cases anyway
Gday...
The point of the photos was NOT to show WHERE they van was situated ..........just to show what a full annex looks like.
It is all a moot point I guess. It only takes ONE instance of a death in an annex and the overpowering Nanny State will kick in.
But back to the OP - if the fridge and HWS are vented into the annex side, this is probably a thoughtless design by the van maker. The solution is to not buy a van that has been thoughtlessly designed if you are going to be using a FULL annex, otherwise, what's the problem
Cheers - John
That is why I said in part 'I do get your point' most people would know what an annex looks like.
I have used an annex for years and never had a problem and yes my fridge is on the annex side, however there could be a problem if one is using gas and you are parked right next door and there is a fire, would one be able to claim on their insurance or would one claim on your own insurance?
And you would find that their insurance would not pay theirs let alone yours.
Again, another case of some useless bureaucrat justifying their employment. How many of those clowns have ANY experience with caravaning?
Larry
none would be my guess
Both kids died overnight because of a faulty fitted gas appliance.
Isn't it better to save one life out of the thousands that travel in caravans and motor homes than risk yours and complain about new laws.
And always you have to think about insurance, no claim will be paid if you inadvertently do something against a "rule".
Our fridge is vented on the drivers side, and the gas bayonet is fitted on the same side as door/annexe but right at the back of the van so we can cook away from under the awning. I think most vans are fitted this way, so don't worry Rocket, there'll be plenty to choose from.
Hi jpw, we have a bayonet fitting, and have found it takes a bit of wrist/hand strength to plug the gas pipe into it. Best to have the bayonet facing outward instead of downward, so you don't have to bend down and push-turn in an upward direction. (Hope that makes sense?)
Where was the compulsory gas detector and who signed the certificate off??
I did not know the gas detector was compulsory.
Thanks Gerty, hadn't thought of it being fitted downwards ... assumed that it would be facing outward. Will make a point of mentioning it.
Cheers