Have copies across my post from general forum ... Hope some of you tech gurus can assist ....
Can someone please help with clarification of weight. We are looking at a Talvor Hayman and it appears not much allowance for our personal stuff, water, fuel etc. we both have standard licenses ... I was told upgrading Licence can allow you additional weight? Have referred to Mr Google but he talks a bit to technically for us to get a clear understanding. Is there perhaps a website that explains all this stuff, or something I can download? Of course, we have not discounted the obvious option of rethinking our choice of MH!
Currently at Normanton, did the Gulflander trip yesterday, day trip to Karumba today ...heading east in the next couple of days if anyone is in or around the postcodes would love to meet .....
many thanks ... Libby
oldboar said
09:07 AM Jun 12, 2014
Libby, no matter what class of licence you have, the difference between Tare & GVM is all you are legally permitted to load. This can often include water and gas in the various tanks as well. Possibly even diesel.
Darrell & Sandra
-- Edited by oldboar on Thursday 12th of June 2014 09:07:58 AM
PeterD said
09:48 AM Jun 12, 2014
oldboar wrote:
This can often include water and gas in the various tanks as well. Possibly even diesel.
All these fluids are definitely included in your disposable loading. The diesel tank will have 10 litres in it when the tare mass is determined, the rest of the tank is disposable load.
The licence class you require to drive is determined by the GVM of the vehicle. Upgrading the licence does not upgrade the GVM of the vehicle. If you wish to upgrade that you will have to contact the distributor that imported the vehicle and ask their advice. The upgrade may involve an upgrade in suspension or brakes.
As you have not yet purchased your vehicle I suggest you contact Talvor to see how they can help in the build of a suitable vehicle for you.
Another thing to watch is if you intend to suspend some load off the rear of the vehicle. A lot of those motorhomes are built with the rear overhang at the the maximum allowable (60% of the wheelbase.) As soon as you hang a box or your bicycles off the rear you are immediately over-length. There are heaps of travellers out there that don't realise their rigs are over-length.
Jaahn said
02:25 PM Jun 12, 2014
Hi Libby,
This subject is a bit vague because the sales people sometimes do not want to give you the bad news. That news might be that the vehicle as presented will be illegal if you load it up as normally required for a trip!!!!
The ordinary car licence covers vehicles up to 4.5 tons. ie 4500 KGs Gross Vehicle Mass or GVM. So manufacturers often set just under that weight for their motorhomes. The GVM figure is set by the manufacturer for all vehicles. It is the maximum weight it can be with a full load. So it is the maximum weight that your motorhome can be when you set out for any trip, with people, clothes, food, gas, fuel, water, boat, tv etc etc etc. All this is called the Payload. Many smaller motorhomes are rated just under 4.5Tons GVM so they can be driven on a 'car" licence.
The Tare weight is the weight of the vehicle with nothing in it but the fixtures. Only a nominal amount of fuel and nothing in the water tanks or gas etc. No clothes or people or whatever. So this figure has to be a good lot less than the GVM so you can take some of the essential gear you need. This is called the Payload. Some motorhomes only have a couple of hundred Kgs between the Tare and the GVM . You had better be travelling light then.
Off the Tavlor website; Hayman
GVM Weight (kg)
4490
Tare Weight (kg)
3920
Payload (kg)
570
So that means the maximum weight with "everything" is 4490 Kg and you are not legal if you are heavier.
The empty motorhome is 3920 Kg with empty tanks and nothing but the bare fitout.
So you can put 570 KG of water, clothes, people, etc etc into it for a trip.
If you find that this is not enough there may be an option for some truck based vehicles to have them upgraded to a heavier GVM, but only by an Engineering assesment and certification if deemed suitable, and modified as required. However driving that vehicle will then require a LR licence.
If you have a car licence now then getting a heavier licence, eg LR only entitles you to drive a suitable vehicle. It does not affect the vehicle itself. The driver is required to have a suitable licence for the vehicle they drive. The licence does not change the loading or the Tare or the GVM of the vehicle, as others have also pointed out.
I hope this has been helpfull.
Jaahn
-- Edited by Jaahn on Thursday 12th of June 2014 02:29:20 PM
chaslib said
05:41 PM Jun 12, 2014
Thanks everyone ... Very clear explanations. I think now the issue is payload and if what we carry is less than the payload allowance with ample margin. We have totaled up the generator, solar, full gas bottles, extra battery, fuel, water, personal stuff, me and Charlie safety, tools, and spares and general contents and I think we have about 130 allowable left. I guess we will be speaking with Talvor to confirm things and also doing a weigh in when we get back home before making any final decision.
I would be interested to know if anyone else has been through this delima trying to decide what is and is not necessary. We do not now intend to tow a vehicle but will consider bikes after looking into the types and options to carry.
Again, many thanks everyone.
-- Edited by chaslib on Thursday 12th of June 2014 05:51:15 PM
oldbobsbus said
06:14 PM Jun 12, 2014
chaslib wrote:
Thanks everyone ... Very clear explanations. I think now the issue is payload and if what we carry is less than the payload allowance with ample margin. We have totaled up the generator, solar, full gas bottles, extra battery, fuel, water, personal stuff, me and Charlie safety, tools, and spares and general contents and I think we have about 130 allowable left. I guess we will be speaking with Talvor to confirm things and also doing a weigh in when we get back home before making any final decision.
I would be interested to know if anyone else has been through this delima trying to decide what is and is not necessary. We do not now intend to tow a vehicle but will consider bikes after looking into the types and options to carry.
Again, many thanks everyone.
-- Edited by chaslib on Thursday 12th of June 2014 05:51:15 PM
The benefit of towing a vehicle behind a MH is you then have extra storage space for things you really must have on a trip that doesn't count onto your GVM....lol..
Glenelg said
08:14 AM Jun 13, 2014
Very good post guy have learnt a lot from this one I'll know more when I go the buy my MH .Dave
dogbox said
10:44 AM Jun 15, 2014
oldbobsbus wrote:
chaslib wrote:
Thanks everyone ... Very clear explanations. I think now the issue is payload and if what we carry is less than the payload allowance with ample margin. We have totaled up the generator, solar, full gas bottles, extra battery, fuel, water, personal stuff, me and Charlie safety, tools, and spares and general contents and I think we have about 130 allowable left. I guess we will be speaking with Talvor to confirm things and also doing a weigh in when we get back home before making any final decision.
I would be interested to know if anyone else has been through this delima trying to decide what is and is not necessary. We do not now intend to tow a vehicle but will consider bikes after looking into the types and options to carry.
Again, many thanks everyone.
but it does count towards your gcm
-- Edited by chaslib on Thursday 12th of June 2014 05:51:15 PM
The benefit of towing a vehicle behind a MH is you then have extra storage space for things you really must have on a trip that doesn't count onto your GVM....lol..
PJK said
01:36 AM Jun 16, 2014
dogbox wrote:
oldbobsbus wrote:
chaslib wrote:
Thanks everyone ... Very clear explanations. I think now the issue is payload and if what we carry is less than the payload allowance with ample margin. We have totaled up the generator, solar, full gas bottles, extra battery, fuel, water, personal stuff, me and Charlie safety, tools, and spares and general contents and I think we have about 130 allowable left. I guess we will be speaking with Talvor to confirm things and also doing a weigh in when we get back home before making any final decision.
I would be interested to know if anyone else has been through this delima trying to decide what is and is not necessary. We do not now intend to tow a vehicle but will consider bikes after looking into the types and options to carry.
Again, many thanks everyone.
but it does count towards your gcm
-- Edited by chaslib on Thursday 12th of June 2014 05:51:15 PM
The benefit of towing a vehicle behind a MH is you then have extra storage space for things you really must have on a trip that doesn't count onto your GVM....lol..
Hi Dogbox. Moving weight into your towed vehicle might help GVM, but it is then counted in GCM, so you might be shifting the problem from the frying pan into the fire.
Regards
Peter
PJK
chaslib said
03:28 PM Jun 16, 2014
Copied from general forum ....
I asked Talvor for comment on info provided by Baz and Eve and received the following ... Obviously the Jury is still out ... Incidentally, we do not intend to fit any towing apparatus ... And rarely would we have anyone other than the two of us or one child extra ...little child that is ... Traveling with us, so the 3 or 4 seat build we would opt for And on those occasions we would be on power not needing the extra power items ie gennie solar or,extra battery or water as that would be available where we stop once a year to fulfill our school holiday grandparent commitment!
Response from Talvor .....
The payload on the 4 x seater Hayman is 570KG , and while Fiat quote the Ducato as having a tow capacity of 2000kg , this capacity varies depending on the weight of the Motorhome fitted on the chassis ,and the weight over the rear axle
The Hayman 4 x seater does not have sufficient allowance on the rear axle to fit a tow bar with any useable tow ball weight ..the issue is not with the chassis
The Hayman (2 x seat belt build) ,does have capacity to have a tow bar fitted (Tow Capacity = 1250kg and Ball weight 100kg)
Fitting a tow bar to a vehicle that is not designed to have a tow bar , may cause the vehicle to be overweight and above the maximum C Class 4500kg ,ultimately making the vehicle illegal and therefore voiding warranty.
will copy to Techie forum ....
dogbox said
07:05 PM Jun 17, 2014
don't know why but if i try to quote something my post look like part of the quote
Bas + Eve said
08:35 PM Jun 17, 2014
Get it right Talvor
the AL-KO chassis the Hayman is built on is only designed for a GVM of 4500kg. As soon as you change this you would void the AL-KO warranty as well as the 2yr manufactures warranty.
Cheers
Brendan Ludlow
Technical Sales Representative
TALVOR
Good morning regarding your query for towbar suit motorhome ..
We do not stock or sell these as an accessory item in Australia , however -having recently had a similar request in making enquiries I would suggest you contact a company called Kebar Manufacturing as they may have a solution for you .
This would Not be genuine equipment or not even [necessarily] Alko approved , but may be appropriate for your application.
Their contact ph : 07 3821 2850
Hoping this is of some assistance .
Regards ,
Trevor ONeill
Customer Service Officer
AL-KO International Pty Ltd
13 Union Circuit
Yatala, QLD, 4207
Australia
-- Edited by Bas + Eve on Tuesday 17th of June 2014 08:36:31 PM
-- Edited by Bas + Eve on Tuesday 17th of June 2014 08:41:50 PM
Have copies across my post from general forum ... Hope some of you tech gurus can assist ....
Can someone please help with clarification of weight. We are looking at a Talvor Hayman and it appears not much allowance for our personal stuff, water, fuel etc. we both have standard licenses ... I was told upgrading Licence can allow you additional weight? Have referred to Mr Google but he talks a bit to technically for us to get a clear understanding. Is there perhaps a website that explains all this stuff, or something I can download? Of course, we have not discounted the obvious option of rethinking our choice of MH!
Currently at Normanton, did the Gulflander trip yesterday, day trip to Karumba today ...heading east in the next couple of days if anyone is in or around the postcodes would love to meet .....
many thanks ... Libby
Libby, no matter what class of licence you have, the difference between Tare & GVM is all you are legally permitted to load. This can often include water and gas in the various tanks as well. Possibly even diesel.
Darrell & Sandra
-- Edited by oldboar on Thursday 12th of June 2014 09:07:58 AM
All these fluids are definitely included in your disposable loading. The diesel tank will have 10 litres in it when the tare mass is determined, the rest of the tank is disposable load.
The licence class you require to drive is determined by the GVM of the vehicle. Upgrading the licence does not upgrade the GVM of the vehicle. If you wish to upgrade that you will have to contact the distributor that imported the vehicle and ask their advice. The upgrade may involve an upgrade in suspension or brakes.
As you have not yet purchased your vehicle I suggest you contact Talvor to see how they can help in the build of a suitable vehicle for you.
Another thing to watch is if you intend to suspend some load off the rear of the vehicle. A lot of those motorhomes are built with the rear overhang at the the maximum allowable (60% of the wheelbase.) As soon as you hang a box or your bicycles off the rear you are immediately over-length. There are heaps of travellers out there that don't realise their rigs are over-length.
Hi Libby,
This subject is a bit vague because the sales people sometimes do not want to give you the bad news. That news might be that the vehicle as presented will be illegal if you load it up as normally required for a trip!!!!
The ordinary car licence covers vehicles up to 4.5 tons. ie 4500 KGs Gross Vehicle Mass or GVM. So manufacturers often set just under that weight for their motorhomes. The GVM figure is set by the manufacturer for all vehicles. It is the maximum weight it can be with a full load. So it is the maximum weight that your motorhome can be when you set out for any trip, with people, clothes, food, gas, fuel, water, boat, tv etc etc etc. All this is called the Payload. Many smaller motorhomes are rated just under 4.5Tons GVM so they can be driven on a 'car" licence.
The Tare weight is the weight of the vehicle with nothing in it but the fixtures. Only a nominal amount of fuel and nothing in the water tanks or gas etc. No clothes or people or whatever. So this figure has to be a good lot less than the GVM so you can take some of the essential gear you need. This is called the Payload. Some motorhomes only have a couple of hundred Kgs between the Tare and the GVM . You had better be travelling light then.
Off the Tavlor website; Hayman
So that means the maximum weight with "everything" is 4490 Kg and you are not legal if you are heavier.
The empty motorhome is 3920 Kg with empty tanks and nothing but the bare fitout.
So you can put 570 KG of water, clothes, people, etc etc into it for a trip.
If you find that this is not enough there may be an option for some truck based vehicles to have them upgraded to a heavier GVM, but only by an Engineering assesment and certification if deemed suitable, and modified as required. However driving that vehicle will then require a LR licence.
If you have a car licence now then getting a heavier licence, eg LR only entitles you to drive a suitable vehicle. It does not affect the vehicle itself. The driver is required to have a suitable licence for the vehicle they drive. The licence does not change the loading or the Tare or the GVM of the vehicle, as others have also pointed out.
I hope this has been helpfull.
Jaahn
-- Edited by Jaahn on Thursday 12th of June 2014 02:29:20 PM
Thanks everyone ... Very clear explanations. I think now the issue is payload and if what we carry is less than the payload allowance with ample margin. We have totaled up the generator, solar, full gas bottles, extra battery, fuel, water, personal stuff, me and Charlie safety, tools, and spares and general contents and I think we have about 130 allowable left. I guess we will be speaking with Talvor to confirm things and also doing a weigh in when we get back home before making any final decision.
I would be interested to know if anyone else has been through this delima trying to decide what is and is not necessary. We do not now intend to tow a vehicle but will consider bikes after looking into the types and options to carry.
Again, many thanks everyone.
-- Edited by chaslib on Thursday 12th of June 2014 05:51:15 PM
The benefit of towing a vehicle behind a MH is you then have extra storage space for things you really must have on a trip that doesn't count onto your GVM....lol..
Hi Dogbox. Moving weight into your towed vehicle might help GVM, but it is then counted in GCM, so you might be shifting the problem from the frying pan into the fire.
Regards
Peter
PJK
Copied from general forum ....
I asked Talvor for comment on info provided by Baz and Eve and received the following ... Obviously the Jury is still out ... Incidentally, we do not intend to fit any towing apparatus ... And rarely would we have anyone other than the two of us or one child extra ...little child that is ... Traveling with us, so the 3 or 4 seat build we would opt for And on those occasions we would be on power not needing the extra power items ie gennie solar or,extra battery or water as that would be available where we stop once a year to fulfill our school holiday grandparent commitment!
Brendan Ludlow
Good morning regarding your query for towbar suit motorhome ..
We do not stock or sell these as an accessory item in Australia , however -having recently had a similar request in making enquiries I would suggest you contact a company called Kebar Manufacturing as they may have a solution for you .
This would Not be genuine equipment or not even [necessarily] Alko approved , but may be appropriate for your application.
Their contact ph : 07 3821 2850
Hoping this is of some assistance .
Regards ,
Trevor ONeill
Customer Service Officer
AL-KO International Pty Ltd
13 Union Circuit
Yatala, QLD, 4207
Australia
-- Edited by Bas + Eve on Tuesday 17th of June 2014 08:36:31 PM
-- Edited by Bas + Eve on Tuesday 17th of June 2014 08:41:50 PM