I have been search this and other forums to see if the fuel economy of one is how much better than the other. I realize there is a lot of variables but need to get some ideas.
please help my troubled mind.
rockylizard said
08:17 PM May 27, 2014
Gday...
I assume you mean a 4.2litre diesel compared to a V8 (what size?) petrol?
Broadly speaking, without getting into the many variables, the diesel will always give better fuel economy than the petrol in the same conditions particularly when towing that sort of weight.
But the overall cost of ownership is another thing. From Purchase price through day to day usage to servicing/parts prices etc etc.
There will be others, much more knowledgeable than I, who will offer advice and opinion.
Sit back and soak up the info
Cheers - John
Deetric said
08:39 PM May 27, 2014
Sorry John, I meant diesel with either engines. would not get petrol . what I am looking at is either 4.2 Nissan or landcruiser versus V8 cruiser. all diesel.
rockylizard said
08:51 PM May 27, 2014
Gday...
Sorry, I have no personal experience with either motor or vehicle they are in
But I have met many on the road with the Tojo V8 diesel - they have all been extremely happy with the performance - including fuel economy I think.
There will be others on here with first-hand experience to share.
Cheers - John
spinjohn said
08:57 PM May 27, 2014
Deetric, I have a LC200TTD and Scangauge 2 fitted.
When we went over to Brisbane (from Perth) to pick up our van we averaged 10.6 ltr/100 and kept at the speed limits with a fully loaded vehicle / two occupants.
On the way back pulling our van and at around 3500kg (Tare 2920) we averaged 18.8lt/100, both figures confirmed from the door to door and fuel receipts. What I found was that in a lot of cases and certainly under load I was better in 4th than 5th gear and certainly for auto trans fluid temperature where the 4th is a full lock up.
My previous vehicle was a LC100TD and that was also very good economy wise while towing 16-18lt/100 but with a lot less power when you need it. I did not have a Scangauge on that vehicle.
Cheers. John
Aus-Kiwi said
11:35 PM May 27, 2014
The 4.2 was a VERY good engine.. A FEW of the V8's have had oil consumption issues..
Strange for a Toyota & diesel ...
bill12 said
05:14 AM May 28, 2014
A friend had oil problems with his v8 landcruiser, but it was fixed under warrentee. The 6 cylinder is vastly easier to work on, as the v8 is a commonrail engine.It costs $8000 to replace the starter on the v8 as its in the V, under the fuel injector system, and and hard to get at.The Nissan 4.2 is a very reliable motor, but the v8 makes a lot more power. Bill
sandsmere said
07:24 AM May 28, 2014
Deetric , We have a 76Series LC with the turbo charged V8 diesel and are very happy with it .
It is two and half years old , has done 69000 kms and no hiccups. Some of the earlier ones did have an oil problem
but they have overcome that now.
Our van weighs 2900 all up and it tows it easily. Fuel consumption varies with conditions, but is generally pretty comparable
with other makes, and the motor does the job easier than the 6 cylinder jobs.
I'm sure you would be happy with one.
The only people that knock them are the ones that haven't got one.
deverall11 said
09:59 AM May 28, 2014
Deetric, we have a 200 series Landcruiser and our observation are similar to Spinjohn. Another benefit of the Landcruiser is that it dos not get sucked in as much when a road train or big semi overtakes. Very stable when towing. Without the van, we regularly get 11l/100km on the highway. Very impressive given that it is a fulltime 4WD and weighs in above 3t.
If you want more information have a look at www.LCOOL.COM.ORG. there is at least two very comprehensive threads relating to fuel consumption towing and not towing.
Larry
justcruisin01 said
01:17 PM May 28, 2014
bill12 wrote:
A friend had oil problems with his v8 landcruiser, but it was fixed under warrentee. The 6 cylinder is vastly easier to work on, as the v8 is a commonrail engine.It costs $8000 to replace the starter on the v8 as its in the V, under the fuel injector system, and and hard to get at.The Nissan 4.2 is a very reliable motor, but the v8 makes a lot more power. Bill
You can add the alternator to the list as well, mounted down at sump level where it is first to cop all the water ,dust & mud . when used as a 4x4 they chew them out all the time.
Not sure about the 200 series but all other late cruisers have differen front to back wheel tracks, bad in sand & mud.
For this day & age they are a discrace desighn from Toyo, prices are no better.
rockylizard said
01:28 PM May 28, 2014
justcruisin01 wrote:
~~~ Not sure about the 200 series but all other late cruisers have differen front to back wheel tracks, bad in sand & mud.
For this day & age they are a disgrace design from Toyo, prices are no better.
Gday...
From a quick bit of research of the specs -
200 Series Landcruiser, GX, GXL, Sahara have the following track -
Front = 1640mm
Rear = 1635mm
100 Series, GXL, Sahara
Front = 1620mm
Rear = 1615mm
80 Series GXL
Front = 1605mm
Rear = 1600mm
That's one quarter of an inch in the 'old money' - not sure that would have any impact on sand or mud driving
Couldn't help meself .... the Nissan Patrol - both Y61 and GU
Front = 1605mm
Rear = 1625mm
Making that about an inch in the 'old money' .... not sure these variances in the width of track of either model has impacted on their 'off-road ability'
cheers - John
-- Edited by rockylizard on Wednesday 28th of May 2014 01:41:21 PM
bill12 said
04:27 PM May 28, 2014
Why is it that the "experts " seem to have GQ 4.2 turbo patrols, and not a lot of Toyos? On tv, the 4wd programs seem to have more Patrols than landcruisers. Is it because ther are easier to fix? I would like to know. Bill
rockylizard said
04:31 PM May 28, 2014
bill12 wrote:
Why is it that the "experts " seem to have GQ 4.2 turbo patrols, and not a lot of Toyos? On tv, the 4wd programs seem to have more Patrols than landcruisers. Is it because ther are easier to fix? I would like to know. Bill
Gday...
Very simple Bill .... Nissan provide them to the "experts" free of charge - really cheap advertising.
cheers - John
bill12 said
05:57 PM May 28, 2014
Can I have one , too? Ihave been told i'm an "expert"(fisherman).............Bill
rockylizard said
07:09 PM May 28, 2014
Gday...
OH well ... it's off topic but hey ....
I'm that too Bill .... an ex spurt .... a once woz and a drip under pressure
Cheers - John
bill12 said
07:24 PM May 28, 2014
except I do it for a living...........Bill
justcruisin01 said
07:54 PM May 28, 2014
rockylizard wrote:
justcruisin01 wrote:
~~~ Not sure about the 200 series but all other late cruisers have differen front to back wheel tracks, bad in sand & mud.
For this day & age they are a disgrace design from Toyo, prices are no better.
Gday...
From a quick bit of research of the specs -
200 Series Landcruiser, GX, GXL, Sahara have the following track -
Front = 1640mm
Rear = 1635mm
100 Series, GXL, Sahara
Front = 1620mm
Rear = 1615mm
80 Series GXL
Front = 1605mm
Rear = 1600mm
That's one quarter of an inch in the 'old money' - not sure that would have any impact on sand or mud driving
Couldn't help meself .... the Nissan Patrol - both Y61 and GU
Front = 1605mm
Rear = 1625mm
Making that about an inch in the 'old money' .... not sure these variances in the width of track of either model has impacted on their 'off-road ability'
cheers - John
-- Edited by rockylizard on Wednesday 28th of May 2014 01:41:21 PM
John. I believe that it is the rest of the v8 series. Tray tops a s/wagons Not sure about the 200 .
Baz421 said
08:28 PM May 28, 2014
LC79 4.2 turbo, 120,000km nearly 9 years old. We are about 6.5 tonnes GCM and regularly get 18l to 100km, sometimes 20 with wind etc.
Much the same economy since truck engine "loosened up" at 40,000km.
grae and deb said
09:22 PM May 28, 2014
hi if it was me find a good 4.2 lt ihdfte motor in a cruiser , we were advised the fte motor was the one to find . we tow 3 ton of van and the troopy is full too , we did 12 mths in tassie a good test for hills in that state , in the 18mths we have been on the road we have averaged 17.5,s per 100klms not bad we think , we drive/ tow at a average of 90 klm/hr way fast enough , for us the troopy is a perfect tow rig for our useages hope this helps grae
-- Edited by grae and deb on Wednesday 28th of May 2014 09:23:57 PM
Vanderee said
09:05 PM May 31, 2014
Long term; the Nissan Patrols outlast most of the Toyos and are more cost effective in parts and maintenance.
According to mates who travel the outback extensively; Nissan wins.
Baz421 said
08:56 PM Jun 2, 2014
Vanderee wrote:
Long term; the Nissan Patrols outlast most of the Toyos and are more cost effective in parts and maintenance.
According to mates who travel the outback extensively; Nissan wins.
Don't agree with this after 25 years in the NT,,, maybe other states are different???????
Used to work bush also in later years,,, could drive from Alice to WA border or other very remote areas and not even see a patrol apart from shiny on roaders not doing much on the bitumen.
Ask someone who needed parts for 3 litre Nissan what happened, and very serious problem for many AND VERY COSTLY especially if Nissan didn't come to the party or only supplied parts as many forums have attested to.
I'd suggest that for every single WORKING 4X4 Nissan there are 100's of Toyotas on working stations and with many remote area contractors and builders.
One fleet we had, consisted of about 36 Toyota utes and 2 Patrol Utes,,,,, no one wanted to drive the patrols and we never bought any more even though they had a payload (read GVM of 3700kg) which was 400kg over the Tojo's.
So they are a couple of reasons I disagree
sandsmere said
06:43 AM Jun 3, 2014
Correct Baz.
Don't often see the mining blokes and outback contractors in general driving Nissans.
Ross on the move said
07:44 PM Jun 3, 2014
I had a troopy as a tow vehicle in my boating business for a number of years then changed to a 4.2 Nissan patrol due to getting a very good deal. after 5 years of heavy towing I replaced it with another 4.2 patrol which I still have as a second car and has 400,000 on the clock. I cannot speak higher enough of these patrols as they were more efficient and cheaper to run than the troopy.
Ross on the move
Aus-Kiwi said
09:09 PM Jun 19, 2014
WHY did they (Nissan) drop the bigger motor ???
Baz421 said
09:25 PM Jun 19, 2014
Aus-Kiwi wrote:
WHY did they (Nissan) drop the bigger motor ???
No sure but "common rail" and new generation diesels were the bus-words 15 years ago,,, maybe to break Tojo stranglehold. The 3L showed good specs but as many will tell you they had some issues whilst others performed flawlessly I believe.
Remember the old 1418 Mercedes prime movers in the 70's were replaced by BIG American trucks, Kenworth, Whites, etc to haul the bigger loads that the 1418 couldn't carry.
Extrapolate that to engine/driveline design and you have vehicles suited to 2 different purposes,,, ie 1418 Mercs with say 15 tonne loads and GVM of say 23 tonnes GVM, versus bigger American engine trucks dual axle with dual axle trailers with say 25 tonne loads and GVM of say 38 tonnes and you may have an inkling of the issues.
I think 38 tonnes was the max GVM and axle loads in the 70's.
All figures are my best estimate of weights etc and may not be accurate but allow a comparison of what is needed to carry additional payloads.
My 2 cents worth,,, there will be truckies still around who remember the 1418 series.
The Hats said
06:53 AM Jun 20, 2014
Aus-Kiwi wrote:
WHY did they (Nissan) drop the bigger motor ???
It droped the engine because it could not achieve euro 4 rating. as we are now at euro5 for new vehicles there was no choice. Also we (Oz) were the only country that wanted a big block oiler so it was not worth it to Nissan to redevelop the old oiler. I had one for 12 years and did 720,000ks with about a third of that heavy towing,(2.5tons+) . And crossed every major desert track in the country. Loved it but it was just getting old. About 2 and a half years ago I made the leap to a 4.5ltr V8 troopy. well it is better than I thought it would be.I have clocked up 199,000ks as of today, the only issue was a water pump at 100,000ks under warranty. and a through out bearing under warranty at the same time. I tow a work trailer the weighs up to 3 tons and also tow this over some of the roughest track around. I put a Roo Systems chip and a 3" SS exaust system on at 150,000ks, I now put 178KW on the ground at the back wheels. I get the same fuel economy but even fully loaded it just walks over the biggest hills. I have just towed my trailer from Brissy to Canberra with trailer weight of 2.8 tons and about 400 kg load in the Troopy, and even the biggest hills on the Pacific H/WAY and the hills on the Hume between Sydney and Canberra never got below 90ks.
I tow at 100ks cause I can, and as a bloke that spent over 35 years on the road as a road train driver I am confident at that speed. I get 5.6klms per litre at that speed and load. the nissan could not tow at that speed constantly and it fuel was only 3.9 klms to the litre.
The starter Motor is only about $1800 to replace it is an 7 hour job so most of it is in labour. If some one try's to charge any more than that they are ripping you off.
The only thing against the Troopy is it is not as good in sever off road as the Patrol that is all, nothing a couple of locker would not fix :D .
In short I find the V8 Tojo motor a great tow vehicle.
I have been search this and other forums to see if the fuel economy of one is how much better than the other. I realize there is a lot of variables but need to get some ideas.
please help my troubled mind.
Gday...
I assume you mean a 4.2litre diesel compared to a V8 (what size?) petrol?
Broadly speaking, without getting into the many variables, the diesel will always give better fuel economy than the petrol in the same conditions particularly when towing that sort of weight.
But the overall cost of ownership is another thing. From Purchase price through day to day usage to servicing/parts prices etc etc.
There will be others, much more knowledgeable than I, who will offer advice and opinion.
Sit back and soak up the info
Cheers - John
Gday...
Sorry, I have no personal experience with either motor or vehicle they are in
But I have met many on the road with the Tojo V8 diesel - they have all been extremely happy with the performance - including fuel economy I think.
There will be others on here with first-hand experience to share.
Cheers - John
When we went over to Brisbane (from Perth) to pick up our van we averaged 10.6 ltr/100 and kept at the speed limits with a fully loaded vehicle / two occupants.
On the way back pulling our van and at around 3500kg (Tare 2920) we averaged 18.8lt/100, both figures confirmed from the door to door and fuel receipts. What I found was that in a lot of cases and certainly under load I was better in 4th than 5th gear and certainly for auto trans fluid temperature where the 4th is a full lock up.
My previous vehicle was a LC100TD and that was also very good economy wise while towing 16-18lt/100 but with a lot less power when you need it. I did not have a Scangauge on that vehicle.
Cheers. John
Strange for a Toyota & diesel ...
Deetric , We have a 76Series LC with the turbo charged V8 diesel and are very happy with it .
It is two and half years old , has done 69000 kms and no hiccups. Some of the earlier ones did have an oil problem
but they have overcome that now.
Our van weighs 2900 all up and it tows it easily. Fuel consumption varies with conditions, but is generally pretty comparable
with other makes, and the motor does the job easier than the 6 cylinder jobs.
I'm sure you would be happy with one.
The only people that knock them are the ones that haven't got one.
If you want more information have a look at www.LCOOL.COM.ORG. there is at least two very comprehensive threads relating to fuel consumption towing and not towing.
Larry
You can add the alternator to the list as well, mounted down at sump level where it is first to cop all the water ,dust & mud . when used as a 4x4 they chew them out all the time.
Not sure about the 200 series but all other late cruisers have differen front to back wheel tracks, bad in sand & mud.
For this day & age they are a discrace desighn from Toyo, prices are no better.
Gday...
From a quick bit of research of the specs -
200 Series Landcruiser, GX, GXL, Sahara have the following track -
Front = 1640mm
Rear = 1635mm
100 Series, GXL, Sahara
Front = 1620mm
Rear = 1615mm
80 Series GXL
Front = 1605mm
Rear = 1600mm
That's one quarter of an inch in the 'old money' - not sure that would have any impact on sand or mud driving
Couldn't help meself .... the Nissan Patrol - both Y61 and GU
Front = 1605mm
Rear = 1625mm
Making that about an inch in the 'old money' .... not sure these variances in the width of track of either model has impacted on their 'off-road ability'
cheers - John
-- Edited by rockylizard on Wednesday 28th of May 2014 01:41:21 PM
Gday...
Very simple Bill .... Nissan provide them to the "experts" free of charge - really cheap advertising.
cheers - John
Gday...
OH well ... it's off topic but hey ....
I'm that too Bill .... an ex spurt .... a once woz and a drip under pressure
Cheers - John
John. I believe that it is the rest of the v8 series. Tray tops a s/wagons Not sure about the 200 .
LC79 4.2 turbo, 120,000km nearly 9 years old. We are about 6.5 tonnes GCM and regularly get 18l to 100km, sometimes 20 with wind etc.
Much the same economy since truck engine "loosened up" at 40,000km.
hi if it was me
find a good 4.2 lt ihdfte motor in a cruiser , we were advised the fte motor was the one to find . we tow 3 ton of van and the troopy is full too , we did 12 mths in tassie a good test for hills in that state , in the 18mths we have been on the road we have averaged 17.5,s per 100klms not bad we think , we drive/ tow at a average of 90 klm/hr way fast enough ,
for us the troopy is a perfect tow rig for our useages
hope this helps
grae
-- Edited by grae and deb on Wednesday 28th of May 2014 09:23:57 PM
Long term; the Nissan Patrols outlast most of the Toyos and are more cost effective in parts and maintenance.
According to mates who travel the outback extensively; Nissan wins.
Don't agree with this after 25 years in the NT,,, maybe other states are different???????
Used to work bush also in later years,,, could drive from Alice to WA border or other very remote areas and not even see a patrol apart from shiny on roaders not doing much on the bitumen.
Ask someone who needed parts for 3 litre Nissan what happened, and very serious problem for many AND VERY COSTLY especially if Nissan didn't come to the party or only supplied parts as many forums have attested to.
I'd suggest that for every single WORKING 4X4 Nissan there are 100's of Toyotas on working stations and with many remote area contractors and builders.
One fleet we had, consisted of about 36 Toyota utes and 2 Patrol Utes,,,,, no one wanted to drive the patrols and we never bought any more even though they had a payload (read GVM of 3700kg) which was 400kg over the Tojo's.
So they are a couple of reasons I disagree
Correct Baz.
Don't often see the mining blokes and outback contractors in general driving Nissans.
Ross on the move
No sure but "common rail" and new generation diesels were the bus-words 15 years ago,,, maybe to break Tojo stranglehold. The 3L showed good specs but as many will tell you they had some issues whilst others performed flawlessly I believe.
Remember the old 1418 Mercedes prime movers in the 70's were replaced by BIG American trucks, Kenworth, Whites, etc to haul the bigger loads that the 1418 couldn't carry.
Extrapolate that to engine/driveline design and you have vehicles suited to 2 different purposes,,, ie 1418 Mercs with say 15 tonne loads and GVM of say 23 tonnes GVM, versus bigger American engine trucks dual axle with dual axle trailers with say 25 tonne loads and GVM of say 38 tonnes and you may have an inkling of the issues.
I think 38 tonnes was the max GVM and axle loads in the 70's.
All figures are my best estimate of weights etc and may not be accurate but allow a comparison of what is needed to carry additional payloads.
My 2 cents worth,,, there will be truckies still around who remember the 1418 series.
It droped the engine because it could not achieve euro 4 rating. as we are now at euro5 for new vehicles there was no choice. Also we (Oz) were the only country that wanted a big block oiler so it was not worth it to Nissan to redevelop the old oiler. I had one for 12 years and did 720,000ks with about a third of that heavy towing,(2.5tons+) . And crossed every major desert track in the country. Loved it but it was just getting old. About 2 and a half years ago I made the leap to a 4.5ltr V8 troopy. well it is better than I thought it would be.I have clocked up 199,000ks as of today, the only issue was a water pump at 100,000ks under warranty. and a through out bearing under warranty at the same time. I tow a work trailer the weighs up to 3 tons and also tow this over some of the roughest track around. I put a Roo Systems chip and a 3" SS exaust system on at 150,000ks, I now put 178KW on the ground at the back wheels. I get the same fuel economy but even fully loaded it just walks over the biggest hills. I have just towed my trailer from Brissy to Canberra with trailer weight of 2.8 tons and about 400 kg load in the Troopy, and even the biggest hills on the Pacific H/WAY and the hills on the Hume between Sydney and Canberra never got below 90ks.
I tow at 100ks cause I can, and as a bloke that spent over 35 years on the road as a road train driver I am confident at that speed. I get 5.6klms per litre at that speed and load. the nissan could not tow at that speed constantly and it fuel was only 3.9 klms to the litre.
The starter Motor is only about $1800 to replace it is an 7 hour job so most of it is in labour. If some one try's to charge any more than that they are ripping you off.
The only thing against the Troopy is it is not as good in sever off road as the Patrol that is all, nothing a couple of locker would not fix :D .
In short I find the V8 Tojo motor a great tow vehicle.
Cheers
The Hats.