Due to health reasons do not want to tow a caravan any more with its inherent problems, sway, jockey wheels etc.
Have been reading up on 5th wheelers and their towing characteristics, all of which seem very good.
I have noticed that there are some 5th wheel owners on Grey Nomads and would appreciate their input, from the horses mouth, so to speak.
We want to compare with our other option, a truck mounted mobile home, but would need to tow a 4x4 to access where we like to go off road.
1. Are 5th wheelers really stable to tow?
2. Is hitching up to table ball easy?
3. Is lowering/raising the front support unit easy or difficult for a person with limited strength?
4. Can they be obtained as "off-road" units?
Maybe more questions after reading replies.....please don't hijack thread...as I just want to know about 5th wheelers and characteristics, not caravans or mobile homes......thanks
-- Edited by Ontos45 on Tuesday 13th of May 2014 12:29:44 PM
banjo said
01:42 PM May 13, 2014
Ontos45
To answer your questions in order.
1) yes, far more stable than my previous 4 caravans ! Apart from the sensation of knowing you have weight on the back I get no sway at all ever even when being overtaken by "B" doubles ! Mine is a big rig too at just over 30'.
2) yes again, I have a camera mounted on the rear wall of my storage area on back of truck, and it is an easy one man operation, far easier than crawling around under a van winding legs up and jockey wheels etc. no bending or crawling, mymain reason for going the 5th wheeler route as both my wife and I have bad backs.
3) Varies with make and model, mine has HD twin electric landing legs controlled from one side under the nose, individual leg and both leg control. Beware of manual legs as thy can be a real pain.
4) yes they can be made to suit any conditions but mainly the smaller units are real off road.
5) no question 5 but I will add they are very easy to reverse and maneuver compared to a similar sized caravan.
Something to be aware of is accessibility to the bedroom area, some have no headroom and you have to crawl into bed on your knees ! mine has full headroom which makes getting in and out of bed a breeze and making the bed (s) for the wife.
A final, be aware some USA models are very heavy and non compliant to Aussie specs as regards electrics, widths and overhangs at rear. There are a lot of them out there trying to be unloaded.
We bought Aussie made for peace of mind.
Yuglamron said
03:03 PM May 13, 2014
As the second post says be wary of the American imports that have 240 to 110 volt transformers.
If you are the second owner they are not legal according to that camping/caravan guru Collyn Rivers. Seems the appliance do not meet Australian Standards so cannot be sold on. Only the original buyers can use them.
It's a buyer beware situation and many have been given compliance plates that are "Iffy"
Take care
Patto44 said
03:33 PM May 13, 2014
Yuglamron wrote:
As the second post says be wary of the American imports that have 240 to 110 volt transformers.
If you are the second owner they are not legal according to that camping/caravan guru Collyn Rivers. Seems the appliance do not meet Australian Standards so cannot be sold on. Only the original buyers can use them.
It's a buyer beware situation and many have been given compliance plates that are "Iffy"
Take care
Are you stating FACT or FICTION????
There is no law in Australia that I have heard of that prevents you from selling anything.
There are US models that are not compliant (oversize etc) and could cause problems transferring them into your name.
May be this is what you are referring to???
Grevo said
04:31 PM May 13, 2014
Ontos45,
Our rig is very stable towing, even at 110 kmh on the motorway, although we rarely travel at that speed.
We have a Hijacker Hitch in our ute but I know some 5th wheelers use a tow ball connection. I have a camera behind the cab of the ute that overlooks the hitch and I have a white line painted on the hitch and on the pin box of the 5th wheeler. Hitching up is a one person job and is very easy.
We have electric front legs on our unit and the switch is in a locker on the front left so adjusting the height is also very easy.
Cheers,
Grevo
PeterS said
05:17 PM May 13, 2014
Hi Ontos45,
We have a locally built 5th Wheeler which tows extremely well. As previously said other than the weight on the back you hardly even know it is there!
We have a double acting Highjacker hitch which is relatively easy to hook up. The front landing legs are manual, but a small adapter & 18V electric drill sort that problem out!
Reversing is very easy! We have a camera on the back & obviously the mirrors on the tug.
Yes to off road units.
We had our suspension raised when it was built as our driveway has a 15 degree angle which we have to reverse up, which gives it a good ground clearance.
The manufacturer is Winjana RV in Toowoomba.
Good luck in your excercise & fact finding mission!
Ontos45 said
09:35 AM May 14, 2014
Thank you so much for your constructive replies, much appreciated. Good to know about electric front landing legs, that's was one of our worries (Sue and I both have bad backs and decreased lung power) We are looking at getting the unit locally built (Rockhampton) to our internal specifications, similar to a 6m container home with the front overhang for storage. Just in brain-storming stage at moment. Thanks again folks.
(pic is of a NZ mobile beach home "porta-bach" transportable by truck, similar to what we thinking about in design but not in a 6m container)
As the second post says be wary of the American imports that have 240 to 110 volt transformers.
If you are the second owner they are not legal according to that camping/caravan guru Collyn Rivers. Seems the appliance do not meet Australian Standards so cannot be sold on. Only the original buyers can use them.
It's a buyer beware situation and many have been given compliance plates that are "Iffy"
Take care
Are you stating FACT or FICTION????
There is no law in Australia that I have heard of that prevents you from selling anything.
There are US models that are not compliant (oversize etc) and could cause problems transferring them into your name.
May be this is what you are referring to???
Without getting into a slanging match, If the unit has a step down transformer 240 to 110 then it is illegal as no transformer complies to the Aussie electrical regs for use in an RV.
Also in that case the appliances are usually 110v so do not comply either as they are not type approved for Australian use.
There is a rather "know it all" ex electrician on the C Forum who constantly spouts rules and regulations regarding this and it appears that to sell such a unit it has to be brought up to Australian standards to do so.
To use such a unit as the original owner is fine, its just when coming to sell it one day.
Yuglamron said
12:46 PM May 14, 2014
I made the comment re on-selling American Imported 5th wheelers with the transformers and 110 Volt appliances.
I read the article by Collyn Rivers who from my limited knowledge has the expertise and experience in the Caravan/ Motorhome/5th wheeler fields/Solar and electrical fields as well.
There are many of his books held up to be the definitive books about various subjects such as solar, electrical set ups etc.
I will always look carefully at anything before deciding if I believe the information given.
The article by Collyn Rivers seems to me to cast a huge shadow on the ability of anyone to legally register one of the American imports with step-down transformers and 110 volt appliances unless you are the original owner.
He in his article referenced the ADR's re the appliances not meeting Australian Standards and the fact that a second buyer cannot register the vehicle with out a full electrical conversion.
I made the original post to draw attention to these facts and it is then up to the individual to disregard or make their own enquiries to confirm the FACTS.
I would hate to sit here say nothing and find out that a warning to check the facts first for your own peace of mind led to someone spending their hard earned dollars and ending up with an expensive electrical conversion on their hands.
Thunderchild69 said
08:39 PM May 14, 2014
Agree with most of what is said here. Another consideration if buying a US manufactured unit, the entry doors on some were on the wrong side so be mindful if buying secondhand. I think this has been addressed in recent models though. I know our rig, although built in the US, is designed for Oz so is compliant right across the board. The 240V gear is actually exported to the factory for install there and lands back in Oz with all that done. I would recommend you Google the heck out of any and all manufacturer sites and check the floor plans to get yourself some ideas for your own rig. Plagiarism is after all the greatest form of flattery!
Ontos45 said
11:45 AM May 15, 2014
Thanks all. When Sue and I looking at imported motor homes came across this USA/AUST configuration/electrical problems so steered clear of them. Speaking of Plagiarism have copied your 5th wheel avator pictures so Sue can see rigs already on the road.
Another question if you will allow: what size tow tug is recommended or is this dependant on 5th wheeler size or ball weight as with caravans? We would require a 4x4. and I hold a class "C" licence.
Thanks again
Tim thetruckie said
12:29 PM May 15, 2014
banjo wrote:
Without getting into a slanging match, If the unit has a step down transformer 240 to 110 then it is illegal as no transformer complies to the Aussie electrical regs for use in an RV.
Also in that case the appliances are usually 110v so do not comply either as they are not type approved for Australian use.
There is a rather "know it all" ex electrician on the C Forum who constantly spouts rules and regulations regarding this and it appears that to sell such a unit it has to be brought up to Australian standards to do so.
To use such a unit as the original owner is fine, its just when coming to sell it one day.
Banjo , its very easy to sling off at someone when they are not around to correct your incorrect information and defend themselves from your personal attack
-- Edited by Tim thetruckie on Thursday 15th of May 2014 12:31:44 PM
oldtrack123 said
12:55 PM May 15, 2014
banjo wrote:
Without getting into a slanging match
[1], If the unit has a step down transformer 240 to 110 then it is illegal as no transformer complies to the Aussie electrical regs for use in an RV.
[2]Also in that case the appliances are usually 110v so do not comply either as they are not type approved for Australian use.
[3]There is a rather "know it all" ex electrician on the C Forum who constantly spouts rules and regulations regarding this and it appears that to sell such a unit it has to be brought up to Australian standards to do so.
[4]To use such a unit as the original owner is fine, its just when coming to sell it one day.
Hi
[1] Sorry, but you did not get THAT right
IT has nothing to do with the TYPE of transformer!!
The transformers being used Did have Aus approval AS TRANSFORMERS.!
It was the application that was not approved
But one needs to be a know it all electrcian to understand why such use does not meet the Aus standards
[2] correct
[3] Exactly, AS verified by several different states'ESOs to me , more than two years ago.
[4]correct as CR has now publicly indicated in his articles
We did have some discussion before that was put out & I referred him to a member of thge Electrical Standards committee
Peter Q
[the knowit all electrician]
oldtrack123 said
12:57 PM May 15, 2014
Tim thetruckie wrote:
banjo wrote:
Without getting into a slanging match, If the unit has a step down transformer 240 to 110 then it is illegal as no transformer complies to the Aussie electrical regs for use in an RV.
Also in that case the appliances are usually 110v so do not comply either as they are not type approved for Australian use.
There is a rather "know it all" ex electrician on the C Forum who constantly spouts rules and regulations regarding this and it appears that to sell such a unit it has to be brought up to Australian standards to do so.
To use such a unit as the original owner is fine, its just when coming to sell it one day.
Banjo , its very easy to sling off at someone when they are not around to correct your incorrect information and defend themselves from your personal attack
-- Edited by Tim thetruckie on Thursday 15th of May 2014 12:31:44 PM
HI Tim
It's Ok
it takes all types in this world
peterQ [the knowitall]
oldtrack123 said
01:06 PM May 15, 2014
Patto44 wrote:
Yuglamron wrote:
As the second post says be wary of the American imports that have 240 to 110 volt transformers.
If you are the second owner they are not legal according to that camping/caravan guru Collyn Rivers. Seems the appliance do not meet Australian Standards so cannot be sold on. Only the original buyers can use them.
It's a buyer beware situation and many have been given compliance plates that are "Iffy"
Take care
Are you stating FACT or FICTION????
There is no law in Australia that I have heard of that prevents you from selling anything.
There are US models that are not compliant (oversize etc) and could cause problems transferring them into your name.
May be this is what you are referring to???
HI
THere are Standards that Shall apply to especially to gas & low voltage electrics
THere is a olop hole in our import law to allow people who have been or are coming in from overseas to bring in some goods that they have bought oversees
THat is the loop hole that unfortunately is being exploited by dodgy importer T
They get the customer to buy it from overseas & then tried to modify.
Australians laws define what can be SOLD in Aus.
Each state has a list of prescribed products that SHALL have Aus Standards /Aus Approval before being SOLD
Heavy penalties can be applied for selling non approved products in Aus
The two most heavily regulated are electrical & gas products
PeterQ
Tim thetruckie said
02:52 PM May 15, 2014
oldtrack123 wrote:
Tim thetruckie wrote:
banjo wrote:
Without getting into a slanging match, If the unit has a step down transformer 240 to 110 then it is illegal as no transformer complies to the Aussie electrical regs for use in an RV.
Also in that case the appliances are usually 110v so do not comply either as they are not type approved for Australian use.
There is a rather "know it all" ex electrician on the C Forum who constantly spouts rules and regulations regarding this and it appears that to sell such a unit it has to be brought up to Australian standards to do so.
To use such a unit as the original owner is fine, its just when coming to sell it one day.
Banjo , its very easy to sling off at someone when they are not around to correct your incorrect information and defend themselves from your personal attack
-- Edited by Tim thetruckie on Thursday 15th of May 2014 12:31:44 PM
HI Tim
It's Ok
it takes all types in this world
peterQ [the knowitall]
Andrea said
07:52 PM May 15, 2014
Ontos45 wrote:
1. Are 5th wheelers really stable to tow?
Yes, Ontos45, very stable and comfortable to drive.
2. Is hitching up to table ball easy?
Our 5-er is very easy to hitch onto the ball on our BT-50 ute (4x4), using the combination mentioned earlier of a camera on the rear of the cab and a white line on the tray (which is covered in artificial turf to cut the glare from the aluminium tray!) to help align the two. I discovered in 2012, when John was in hopsital in Bendigo for four weeks, that I can readily do this on my own; I also do nearly all of the driving at present, at least until John gets his new hip next month (and for a while beyond that!).
3. Is lowering/raising the front support unit easy or difficult for a person with limited strength?
Like some others, we have electrically operated fromt legs, individually controllable - makes it easier to correct slight sideways tilt when parking, rather than using wedges under the wheels. We also have 4-wheel independent trailing arm suspension with airbags - another boon when levelling the van as the compressor for re-adjusting is built in!
4. Can they be obtained as "off-road" units?
The owner of Southern Cross Caravans has taken his 5-er (7.7 m, like ours, though they do make a range of sizes) to places we wouldn't dare, all over Australia; they can most definitely be taken off-road.
Definitely do lots of research - as we did; for instance, someone mentioned above the problems that can arise with lack of headroom around the bed in the front. We don't have that problem at all; in the front of ours is a club lounge and dining table. The kitchen comes next, then bedroom with a walk-around queen bed, and the bathroom is at the back of the van. We've been travelling full-time now for 5-and-a-half years, and have no intention of stopping.
Best of luck with your research; perhaps we'll see you on the road sometime!
Andrea & John
Thunderchild69 said
08:35 PM May 15, 2014
Ontos45 wrote:
Thanks all. When Sue and I looking at imported motor homes came across this USA/AUST configuration/electrical problems so steered clear of them. Speaking of Plagiarism have copied your 5th wheel avator pictures so Sue can see rigs already on the road.
Another question if you will allow: what size tow tug is recommended or is this dependant on 5th wheeler size or ball weight as with caravans? We would require a 4x4. and I hold a class "C" licence.
Thanks again
Hello Ontos45 (Peter & Sue),
The choice of tug really depends on the weight of your 5th wheeler. Most modern diesel 4x4 utes (crew cab, tray back etc) are touted as 3,000kg towing with the latest from Holden and Ford listed as 3500kg. If you are looking at a 5th wheel heavier than that, then you will need something like a Ford F series, Chev, Dodge or small Iveco truck.
For the smaller common tugs, if you are buying a Ford Ranger (my current vehicle) be mindful that the latest PX Ranger manufactured prior to October 2012 were certificated at 3250kg. Post October 2012 they were given a few extra spot welds here and there and upped to 3500kg. This of course is strengthening for the chassis/tow bar which is a moot modification for us using the vehicle as a 5th wheel tug because we are attaching to a turntable over the rear axle.
You will need to be mindful of the max combined weight of tug/van also. This is listed in the tug's manual.
Another quirk with 5th wheeling is the weight carried on the pin. This is usually around the 500kg mark and, because it is in the tray over the rear axle, it is classed as cargo and is subtracted from your towing weight. That is, if your van weighs 3500kg and 500kg is the weight on the pin, then for our purposes, you are deemed to be actually towing 3,000kg.
Of course all of these vehicle combinations are legal with a normal driver's license.
Hope this helps
Andrea said
11:25 AM May 16, 2014
Re Thunderchild69's post:
I'm not sure whether you're actually quoting the correct figures - towing rating is not the right figure to use for a 5-er, you should be looking at the gross combination mass of the tug, which you sometimes have to look a little further for. The GCM of our 2008 BT-50 is 5500 kg, somewhat more than the towing capacity (which figure escapes me at the moment). The GCM of the later BT-50 is more again, but you'd need to check the exact figure (we'd love to upgrade, but as they say 'It's not the principle, it's the money!' ). You're right about the axle weight, though; our BT-50 is rated for 1300 kg, well within the range of our 5-er.
Cheers -
Andrea
Ontos45 said
12:20 PM May 16, 2014
Andrea wrote:
Ontos45 wrote:
1. Are 5th wheelers really stable to tow?
Yes, Ontos45, very stable and comfortable to drive.
2. Is hitching up to table ball easy?
Our 5-er is very easy to hitch onto the ball on our BT-50 ute (4x4), using the combination mentioned earlier of a camera on the rear of the cab and a white line on the tray (which is covered in artificial turf to cut the glare from the aluminium tray!) to help align the two. I discovered in 2012, when John was in hopsital in Bendigo for four weeks, that I can readily do this on my own; I also do nearly all of the driving at present, at least until John gets his new hip next month (and for a while beyond that!).
3. Is lowering/raising the front support unit easy or difficult for a person with limited strength?
Like some others, we have electrically operated fromt legs, individually controllable - makes it easier to correct slight sideways tilt when parking, rather than using wedges under the wheels. We also have 4-wheel independent trailing arm suspension with airbags - another boon when levelling the van as the compressor for re-adjusting is built in!
4. Can they be obtained as "off-road" units?
The owner of Southern Cross Caravans has taken his 5-er (7.7 m, like ours, though they do make a range of sizes) to places we wouldn't dare, all over Australia; they can most definitely be taken off-road.
Definitely do lots of research - as we did; for instance, someone mentioned above the problems that can arise with lack of headroom around the bed in the front. We don't have that problem at all; in the front of ours is a club lounge and dining table. The kitchen comes next, then bedroom with a walk-around queen bed, and the bathroom is at the back of the van. We've been travelling full-time now for 5-and-a-half years, and have no intention of stopping.
Best of luck with your research; perhaps we'll see you on the road sometime!
Andrea & John
Thank you so much for that Andrea, Sue (my carer) welcomed advice from a women. Sue was scared of the caravan and it's handling but thinks she could handle the 5th wheeler. We were look at a 2nd hand 4x4 light truck to tow with for more tray storage but now probably go the heavy 4x4 tray back way.
native pepper said
05:57 PM May 16, 2014
Ontos45 wrote:
Andrea wrote:
Ontos45 wrote:
1. Are 5th wheelers really stable to tow?
Yes, Ontos45, very stable and comfortable to drive.
2. Is hitching up to table ball easy?
Our 5-er is very easy to hitch onto the ball on our BT-50 ute (4x4), using the combination mentioned earlier of a camera on the rear of the cab and a white line on the tray (which is covered in artificial turf to cut the glare from the aluminium tray!) to help align the two. I discovered in 2012, when John was in hopsital in Bendigo for four weeks, that I can readily do this on my own; I also do nearly all of the driving at present, at least until John gets his new hip next month (and for a while beyond that!).
3. Is lowering/raising the front support unit easy or difficult for a person with limited strength?
Like some others, we have electrically operated fromt legs, individually controllable - makes it easier to correct slight sideways tilt when parking, rather than using wedges under the wheels. We also have 4-wheel independent trailing arm suspension with airbags - another boon when levelling the van as the compressor for re-adjusting is built in!
4. Can they be obtained as "off-road" units?
The owner of Southern Cross Caravans has taken his 5-er (7.7 m, like ours, though they do make a range of sizes) to places we wouldn't dare, all over Australia; they can most definitely be taken off-road.
Definitely do lots of research - as we did; for instance, someone mentioned above the problems that can arise with lack of headroom around the bed in the front. We don't have that problem at all; in the front of ours is a club lounge and dining table. The kitchen comes next, then bedroom with a walk-around queen bed, and the bathroom is at the back of the van. We've been travelling full-time now for 5-and-a-half years, and have no intention of stopping.
Best of luck with your research; perhaps we'll see you on the road sometime!
Andrea & John
Thank you so much for that Andrea, Sue (my carer) welcomed advice from a women. Sue was scared of the caravan and it's handling but thinks she could handle the 5th wheeler. We were look at a 2nd hand 4x4 light truck to tow with for more tray storage but now probably go the heavy 4x4 tray back way.
G'day Peter, if you're thinking of getting a 4x4 light truck, think about getting a dual cab. There are many on the market in great condition, mostly used by landscapers. You can use them for everything. We know someone with a 5th wheeler who changed their ute to a dual cab 4x4 light truck and reckon it was the best thing they've done. They have heaps of room in the cab, go anywhere, can take others, carry lots of stuff in the tray and their dog has the back seat all to himself and loves it. They've got an Isuzu and are full time on the road.
Andrea said
06:00 PM May 16, 2014
native pepper wrote:
G'day Peter, if you're thinking of getting a 4x4 light truck, think about getting a dual cab. There are many on the market in great condition, mostly used by landscapers. You can use them for everything. We know someone with a 5th wheeler who changed their ute to a dual cab 4x4 light truck and reckon it was the best thing they've done. They have heaps of room in the cab, go anywhere, can take others, carry lots of stuff in the tray and their dog has the back seat all to himself and loves it. They've got an Isuzu and are full time on the road.
Agree with you there, N P; ours is a 'Fressstyle' BT-50, with a half-cab, which is fine for carrying stuff but the seats are definitely not passenger-friendly! Even so, that extra space is great.
Andrea
Ontos45 said
11:12 AM May 17, 2014
Andrea wrote:
native pepper wrote:
G'day Peter, if you're thinking of getting a 4x4 light truck, think about getting a dual cab. There are many on the market in great condition, mostly used by landscapers. You can use them for everything. We know someone with a 5th wheeler who changed their ute to a dual cab 4x4 light truck and reckon it was the best thing they've done. They have heaps of room in the cab, go anywhere, can take others, carry lots of stuff in the tray and their dog has the back seat all to himself and loves it. They've got an Isuzu and are full time on the road.
Agree with you there, N P; ours is a 'Fressstyle' BT-50, with a half-cab, which is fine for carrying stuff but the seats are definitely not passenger-friendly! Even so, that extra space is great.
Andrea
Thanks again folks. We used to tow with a Tojo Hilux dual cab (rear seat for dog) but changed to a Land Rover Disco because of tow-ability (3.5t). Have Ebay email me on trucks but duel cabs few and far between specially in auto. Best we've seen are ex-rural 4x4 fire trucks at reasonable prices which allows some fixing up. We wanted the extra tray length to carry extra bits and pieces.
PeterD said
12:20 AM May 18, 2014
Patto44 wrote: Are you stating FACT or FICTION????
There is no law in Australia that I have heard of that prevents you from selling anything.
There are US models that are not compliant (oversize etc) and could cause problems transferring them into your name.
May be this is what you are referring to???
You are correct there. However if you purchase one of those that are privately imported you may not be able to re-register it without some expensive work done on it.
Here are some links to Aussie manufacturers that give towing vehicle info.
Someone mentioned that on some you have to crawl into bed, In my opinion this refers to both Winjana and Travelhome. It would be an inconvenience but the big plus for me is their lower travel height.
If I ever go on the road full time it will be in a Travelhome. But that's MY choice.
Due to health reasons do not want to tow a caravan any more with its inherent problems, sway, jockey wheels etc.
Have been reading up on 5th wheelers and their towing characteristics, all of which seem very good.
I have noticed that there are some 5th wheel owners on Grey Nomads and would appreciate their input, from the horses mouth, so to speak.
We want to compare with our other option, a truck mounted mobile home, but would need to tow a 4x4 to access where we like to go off road.
1. Are 5th wheelers really stable to tow?
2. Is hitching up to table ball easy?
3. Is lowering/raising the front support unit easy or difficult for a person with limited strength?
4. Can they be obtained as "off-road" units?
Maybe more questions after reading replies.....please don't hijack thread...as I just want to know about 5th wheelers and characteristics, not caravans or mobile homes......thanks
-- Edited by Ontos45 on Tuesday 13th of May 2014 12:29:44 PM
To answer your questions in order.
1) yes, far more stable than my previous 4 caravans ! Apart from the sensation of knowing you have weight on the back I get no sway at all ever even when being overtaken by "B" doubles ! Mine is a big rig too at just over 30'.
2) yes again, I have a camera mounted on the rear wall of my storage area on back of truck, and it is an easy one man operation, far easier than crawling around under a van winding legs up and jockey wheels etc. no bending or crawling, mymain reason for going the 5th wheeler route as both my wife and I have bad backs.
3) Varies with make and model, mine has HD twin electric landing legs controlled from one side under the nose, individual leg and both leg control. Beware of manual legs as thy can be a real pain.
4) yes they can be made to suit any conditions but mainly the smaller units are real off road.
5) no question 5 but I will add they are very easy to reverse and maneuver compared to a similar sized caravan.
Something to be aware of is accessibility to the bedroom area, some have no headroom and you have to crawl into bed on your knees ! mine has full headroom which makes getting in and out of bed a breeze and making the bed (s) for the wife.
A final, be aware some USA models are very heavy and non compliant to Aussie specs as regards electrics, widths and overhangs at rear. There are a lot of them out there trying to be unloaded.
We bought Aussie made for peace of mind.
As the second post says be wary of the American imports that have 240 to 110 volt transformers.
If you are the second owner they are not legal according to that camping/caravan guru Collyn Rivers. Seems the appliance do not meet Australian Standards so cannot be sold on. Only the original buyers can use them.
It's a buyer beware situation and many have been given compliance plates that are "Iffy"
Take care
Are you stating FACT or FICTION????
There is no law in Australia that I have heard of that prevents you from selling anything.
There are US models that are not compliant (oversize etc) and could cause problems transferring them into your name.
May be this is what you are referring to???
Ontos45,
Our rig is very stable towing, even at 110 kmh on the motorway, although we rarely travel at that speed.
We have a Hijacker Hitch in our ute but I know some 5th wheelers use a tow ball connection. I have a camera behind the cab of the ute that overlooks the hitch and I have a white line painted on the hitch and on the pin box of the 5th wheeler. Hitching up is a one person job and is very easy.
We have electric front legs on our unit and the switch is in a locker on the front left so adjusting the height is also very easy.
Cheers,
Grevo
Hi Ontos45,
We have a locally built 5th Wheeler which tows extremely well. As previously said other than the weight on the back you hardly even know it is there!
We have a double acting Highjacker hitch which is relatively easy to hook up. The front landing legs are manual, but a small adapter & 18V electric drill sort that problem out!
Reversing is very easy! We have a camera on the back & obviously the mirrors on the tug.
Yes to off road units.
We had our suspension raised when it was built as our driveway has a 15 degree angle which we have to reverse up, which gives it a good ground clearance.
The manufacturer is Winjana RV in Toowoomba.
Good luck in your excercise & fact finding mission!
Thank you so much for your constructive replies, much appreciated. Good to know about electric front landing legs, that's was one of our worries (Sue and I both have bad backs and decreased lung power) We are looking at getting the unit locally built (Rockhampton) to our internal specifications, similar to a 6m container home with the front overhang for storage. Just in brain-storming stage at moment. Thanks again folks.
(pic is of a NZ mobile beach home "porta-bach" transportable by truck, similar to what we thinking about in design but not in a 6m container)
Without getting into a slanging match, If the unit has a step down transformer 240 to 110 then it is illegal as no transformer complies to the Aussie electrical regs for use in an RV.
Also in that case the appliances are usually 110v so do not comply either as they are not type approved for Australian use.
There is a rather "know it all" ex electrician on the C Forum who constantly spouts rules and regulations regarding this and it appears that to sell such a unit it has to be brought up to Australian standards to do so.
To use such a unit as the original owner is fine, its just when coming to sell it one day.
I made the comment re on-selling American Imported 5th wheelers with the transformers and 110 Volt appliances.
I read the article by Collyn Rivers who from my limited knowledge has the expertise and experience in the Caravan/ Motorhome/5th wheeler fields/Solar and electrical fields as well.
There are many of his books held up to be the definitive books about various subjects such as solar, electrical set ups etc.
I will always look carefully at anything before deciding if I believe the information given.
The article by Collyn Rivers seems to me to cast a huge shadow on the ability of anyone to legally register one of the American imports with step-down transformers and 110 volt appliances unless you are the original owner.
He in his article referenced the ADR's re the appliances not meeting Australian Standards and the fact that a second buyer cannot register the vehicle with out a full electrical conversion.
I made the original post to draw attention to these facts and it is then up to the individual to disregard or make their own enquiries to confirm the FACTS.
I would hate to sit here say nothing and find out that a warning to check the facts first for your own peace of mind led to someone spending their hard earned dollars and ending up with an expensive electrical conversion on their hands.
Thanks all. When Sue and I looking at imported motor homes came across this USA/AUST configuration/electrical problems so steered clear of them. Speaking of Plagiarism have copied your 5th wheel avator pictures so Sue can see rigs already on the road.
Another question if you will allow: what size tow tug is recommended or is this dependant on 5th wheeler size or ball weight as with caravans? We would require a 4x4. and I hold a class "C" licence.
Thanks again
banjo wrote:
Banjo , its very easy to sling off at someone when they are not around to correct your incorrect information and defend themselves from your personal attack
-- Edited by Tim thetruckie on Thursday 15th of May 2014 12:31:44 PM
Hi
[1] Sorry, but you did not get THAT right
IT has nothing to do with the TYPE of transformer!!
The transformers being used Did have Aus approval AS TRANSFORMERS.!
It was the application that was not approved
But one needs to be a know it all electrcian to understand why such use does not meet the Aus standards
[2] correct
[3] Exactly, AS verified by several different states'ESOs to me , more than two years ago.
[4]correct as CR has now publicly indicated in his articles
We did have some discussion before that was put out & I referred him to a member of thge Electrical Standards committee
Peter Q
[the knowit all electrician]
HI Tim
It's Ok
it takes all types in this world
peterQ [the knowitall]
HI
THere are Standards that Shall apply to especially to gas & low voltage electrics
THere is a olop hole in our import law to allow people who have been or are coming in from overseas to bring in some goods that they have bought oversees
THat is the loop hole that unfortunately is being exploited by dodgy importer T
They get the customer to buy it from overseas & then tried to modify.
Australians laws define what can be SOLD in Aus.
Each state has a list of prescribed products that SHALL have Aus Standards /Aus Approval before being SOLD
Heavy penalties can be applied for selling non approved products in Aus
The two most heavily regulated are electrical & gas products
PeterQ
Hello Ontos45 (Peter & Sue),
The choice of tug really depends on the weight of your 5th wheeler. Most modern diesel 4x4 utes (crew cab, tray back etc) are touted as 3,000kg towing with the latest from Holden and Ford listed as 3500kg. If you are looking at a 5th wheel heavier than that, then you will need something like a Ford F series, Chev, Dodge or small Iveco truck.
For the smaller common tugs, if you are buying a Ford Ranger (my current vehicle) be mindful that the latest PX Ranger manufactured prior to October 2012 were certificated at 3250kg. Post October 2012 they were given a few extra spot welds here and there and upped to 3500kg. This of course is strengthening for the chassis/tow bar which is a moot modification for us using the vehicle as a 5th wheel tug because we are attaching to a turntable over the rear axle.
You will need to be mindful of the max combined weight of tug/van also. This is listed in the tug's manual.
Another quirk with 5th wheeling is the weight carried on the pin. This is usually around the 500kg mark and, because it is in the tray over the rear axle, it is classed as cargo and is subtracted from your towing weight. That is, if your van weighs 3500kg and 500kg is the weight on the pin, then for our purposes, you are deemed to be actually towing 3,000kg.
Of course all of these vehicle combinations are legal with a normal driver's license.
Hope this helps
Re Thunderchild69's post:
I'm not sure whether you're actually quoting the correct figures - towing rating is not the right figure to use for a 5-er, you should be looking at the gross combination mass of the tug, which you sometimes have to look a little further for. The GCM of our 2008 BT-50 is 5500 kg, somewhat more than the towing capacity (which figure escapes me at the moment). The GCM of the later BT-50 is more again, but you'd need to check the exact figure (we'd love to upgrade, but as they say 'It's not the principle, it's the money!'
). You're right about the axle weight, though; our BT-50 is rated for 1300 kg, well within the range of our 5-er.
Cheers -
Andrea
G'day Peter, if you're thinking of getting a 4x4 light truck, think about getting a dual cab. There are many on the market in great condition, mostly used by landscapers. You can use them for everything. We know someone with a 5th wheeler who changed their ute to a dual cab 4x4 light truck and reckon it was the best thing they've done. They have heaps of room in the cab, go anywhere, can take others, carry lots of stuff in the tray and their dog has the back seat all to himself and loves it. They've got an Isuzu and are full time on the road.
Agree with you there, N P; ours is a 'Fressstyle' BT-50, with a half-cab, which is fine for carrying stuff but the seats are definitely not passenger-friendly! Even so, that extra space is great.
Andrea
Thanks again folks. We used to tow with a Tojo Hilux dual cab (rear seat for dog) but changed to a Land Rover Disco because of tow-ability (3.5t). Have Ebay email me on trucks but duel cabs few and far between specially in auto. Best we've seen are ex-rural 4x4 fire trucks at reasonable prices which allows some fixing up. We wanted the extra tray length to carry extra bits and pieces.
You are correct there. However if you purchase one of those that are privately imported you may not be able to re-register it without some expensive work done on it.
Here are some links to Aussie manufacturers that give towing vehicle info.
http://www.cutlooserv.com.au/tow-vehicles-tow-mass-guide.php
http://www.winjana5thwheelers.com.au/tow-vehicles/
http://www.venturevan.com.au/suitable-utes-for-5th-wheelers
http://www.travelhome.com.au/
Someone mentioned that on some you have to crawl into bed, In my opinion this refers to both Winjana and Travelhome. It would be an inconvenience but the big plus for me is their lower travel height.
If I ever go on the road full time it will be in a Travelhome. But that's MY choice.