Good afternoon to all . In my van I have two Winegard wall plates which both have the small electronic board at the back which boosts the signal. One plate inside and one outside Up until recently both worked perfectly. For reasons that I cannot fathom the light on the outside wall plate will not come on yet the inside one works OK. When I disconnect the antenna cable from the back of the plate the light on the defective one the green light comes on. Replaced wall plate with a new one, same deal;
The following info is from the Winegard website
NEW Model -This unit is equipped with a polyswitch (current limiting device), which will shut down +12V if there is direct short between antenna and power supply. Green indicator light will not light. Once short is elimiated, device will reset inself in approximately 2 minutes.
Does the above mean that the antenna cable has a short with in itself at one of its connections such as the ends or at the splitter where ever that is or is a 12 volt wire some where bare & resting against a joiner.
Thanks in advance Daz
Cruising Cruze said
07:49 PM Apr 24, 2014
Hi Daz
did you disconnected on of the wires on the back???? if you have a multimeter check if there is power coming to the one that wont work maybe a fuse somewhere
Cheers John
dazz49 said
08:03 PM Apr 24, 2014
Cruising Cruze wrote:
Hi Daz
did you disconnected on of the wires on the back???? if you have a multimeter check if there is power coming to the one that wont work maybe a fuse somewhere
Cheers John
Hi John the 12 volt supply is all intact The problem is with the coaxial cable. when the cable is connected the green light goes off. Disconnect the coax and all is OK What I want to know is why is the Coax shorting
Daz
dorian said
08:15 PM Apr 24, 2014
Test the resistance between the centre pin and shield of your antenna lead. Also test the coax input at the antenna/amplifier.
KFT said
08:16 PM Apr 24, 2014
co-ax could have a screw or a staple through it or it could have chefed on a sharp edge somewhere
check the actual connections at each end with a magnifying glass to see if there is a single strand of copper from the shield that might be shorting it.
frank
dazz49 said
01:16 PM Apr 25, 2014
Thanks to all for your input.
Problem resolved. Determined that the inside wall plate under the antenna feeds a second TV outlet This Coax went across to the outdoors wall plate. When watching TV outdoors I have been unaware that the Poly switch on the inside wall plate had been on as if watching TV indoors. The 12 volt power supply to the antenna comes from the switch inside and the outdoors wall plate switch is superfluous.
all is well
Daz
KFT said
03:37 PM Apr 25, 2014
Daz, we appreciate you coming back and letting us know the outcome.
at least we will have some idea if someone else comes in with a similar problem.
glad you are sorted out.
frank
03_troopy said
08:45 PM Apr 25, 2014
You mean the outlet selector switch was set to indoors? The poly switch is a self resetting circuit breaker (for want of a better term). It only comes into play if you have a short from power to your coax/antenna.
dazz49 said
06:58 AM Apr 26, 2014
03_troopy wrote:
You mean the outlet selector switch was set to indoors? The poly switch is a self resetting circuit breaker (for want of a better term). It only comes into play if you have a short from power to your coax/antenna.
Incorrect The switch supplies power to the antenna
03_troopy said
08:11 PM Apr 26, 2014
Gawd.. here I go being pedantic again....
Sorry mate, a Polyswitch is what I described. You are talking about the Selector Switch being in the wrong position.
Here's a bit of light reading to explain what it is...
Your losing me troopy Unless the green light on the poly switch is on the reception is no good, There is no selector switch.
03_troopy said
10:58 PM Apr 26, 2014
Sorry Dazz, didn't mean to confuse you. It's not that important. I was just trying to explain to you what a polyswitch was. Basically it's only a fuse.
dorian said
05:40 AM Apr 27, 2014
I confess I'm confused. The OP stated that "Up until recently both worked perfectly." So what changed between then and now?
He also states that "When I disconnect the antenna cable from the back of the plate the light on the defective one the green light comes on". What does that mean?
The OP states that "I have two Winegard wall plates which both have the small electronic board at the back which boosts the signal". However, Winegard's PDF states that "This unit is not an amplifier. Use only with a Winegard amplified RV antenna."
Winegard's document has the following warning:
"Do not install couplers, splitters, etc. between the power supply and the antenna. Installation of any item on the downlead may cause a short in the system. The downlead supplies +12 VDC to the preamp in the antenna."
Winegard also states that there is "No +12 VDC at this point", referring to the "2ND Set Hook Up".
ISTM that, if the outdoor wall plate is getting its "antenna" feed from the TV output of the indoor wall plate, then the outdoor wall plate should not be connected to a power supply, in which case the outdoor green LED should never be on.
-- Edited by dorian on Sunday 27th of April 2014 06:05:35 AM
03_troopy said
07:33 AM Apr 27, 2014
After looking at the PDF's you supplied, I agree Dorian. Basically, 12V needs to be fed to the antenna Pre Amp only, from the wall socket that the power supply is connected to. It doesn't need to be fed to the other secondary wall plate. If the LED illuminates on the secondary wallplate it would seem that the coax cables have been connected incorrectly. ie. The cable to the secondary wall plate has been connected to the antenna connection of the powered wallplate.
Is the secondary wall plate the same the as the internal wallplate? ie with a Power Switch and a LED? If it is, it would seem to be the wrong use of a wallplate that is meant for indoor use only, unless protected by weatherproof box of some sort.
From the supplied documents, the system appears to be no different to your standard house system with a mast head amplifier on the antenna. The MHA is supplied through only one of you house TV outlets via a splitter with a power pass (which in the OP's case is located on the back of the first TV outlet). The other TV outlets are connected via the passive connections on the splitter.
Edit: Oh yes, and I forgot to mention... The power supply is protected from dead shorts across the antenna feed cable by a Polyswitch (Polyfuse) circuit protection device.
-- Edited by 03_troopy on Sunday 27th of April 2014 07:36:55 AM
dazz49 said
11:39 AM Apr 27, 2014
Troopy you are correct. The outside wallplate is protected by a weatherproof box. Where I made my mistake was I did not realise the outside wallplate coax was coming from the inside wall plate. I did not realise the green light had to be on inside the van. Now this is where I am a goose. At other times when I have watched TV outside I was unaware that the switch inside was on ( green light) supplying power to the antenna. When I used the TV outside and the inside wallplate switch was off I had no reception. I pushed the outside switch, it flickered & then nothing. I then thought it was defect. Had I have gone inside & pushed the switch inside I would have had reception. I am now much wiser??? & poorer as I purchased a new wall plate to replace the outside faulty one. ( The only reason the outside wall plate really needs power is the socket for the TV power supply.)
So in conclusion The inside wall plate is the power supply to the antenna & coax is connected to the second TV outlet on the board & then to the outside Antenna input. You can run two TVs if need be as long as the push switch inside is on. The split of signal happens on the inside wall plate
As I said I did not understand how it worked and reacted when there was no TV reception outside.
Any one need a spare power supply Winegard wall plate??
Thanks
Over & out
Daz
03_troopy said
01:01 PM Apr 27, 2014
Haha, no worries mate. Just glad to hear you're problem is sorted... And yes, I forgot about needing 12V to run the telly.. I'm a goose too in that case..
Cheers
Bob
aussie_paul said
01:30 PM Apr 27, 2014
You are not on your own being a goose occasionally Daz...
Aussie Paul.
dorian said
04:57 PM Apr 27, 2014
Thanks to both for your explanations.
I just have one more question. Is the outdoor wall plate identical to the indoor one? If so, then ISTM that it may be an incorrect choice.
It now appears that the OP may be using something like the RV-7012 with integrated +12 VDC "cigarette lighter" receptacle for TV set plug-in. I mistakenly assumed it was the RV-0822 (or similar) which does not have a DC power socket (yes, I'm a goose, too).
If the model is in fact the RV-7012, then it has a 2-way splitter for connecting two TVs, plus a cable input.
The ON/OFF switch selects either the Antenna input (ON) or Cable input (OFF). It also switches the antenna power on and off.
The splitter attenuates the signal by 3dB. That is, the signal power is reduced by half. If the same wall plate is used outdoors, it will reduce the signal power by an additional 3dB, ie the signal power would be reduced to one quarter. Winegard's recommended choice is something like the TG-7321, although this wall plate is specified for indoor use.
dorian said
06:23 PM Apr 27, 2014
Here is a wall plate that does have an integrated amplifier (RA-7296):
Identical plates, indoors supplying signal to outdoor plate RV 7012
I presume the signal is only halved if you have a TV connected at each outlet
Daz
-- Edited by dazz49 on Sunday 27th of April 2014 08:07:56 PM
dazz49 said
08:49 PM Apr 27, 2014
KFT wrote:
Daz, we appreciate you coming back and letting us know the outcome.
at least we will have some idea if someone else comes in with a similar problem.
glad you are sorted out.
frank
Thanks Frank
I see you were also on the Caravanners forum
daz
-- Edited by dazz49 on Sunday 27th of April 2014 09:02:59 PM
dorian said
05:19 AM Apr 28, 2014
Unterminated splitters cause all sorts of problems related to signal quality, primarily due to reflections resulting from the mismatched impedances. Ideally you should never have more splitters and splitter outputs than are necessary, and if there are unused outputs, then these should be terminated.
You can buy 75 ohm terminators for around $1, eg ...
Essentially what you have is an antenna system with a "characteristic impedance" of 75 ohms that has to be matched to a network of TV devices. This network has to present the same 75 ohm characteristic impedance to the antenna in order to maximise power transfer and to minimise reflections.
I'm no communications engineer, but I would think that a correctly terminated 2-way splitter would look like a single 75 ohm impedance. AISI, removing one of the terminations would then make the splitter and its single TV look like a 150 ohm impedance. If you were then to cascade this splitter into a second unterminated 2-way splitter, you would have a 300 ohm impedance.
I would suggest that some experimentation might be in order. My LG TVs all have "signal strength" and "signal quality" meters in the manual tuning section of the setup menu. If your TV has a similar feature, then perhaps you could compare the numbers for the indoor and outdoor connections, with and without 75 terminations.
-- Edited by dorian on Monday 28th of April 2014 05:38:32 AM
dorian said
08:45 AM Apr 28, 2014
This is my take on the wiring inside the RV-7012 wall plate:
Good afternoon to all . In my van I have two Winegard wall plates which both have the small electronic board at the back which boosts the signal. One plate inside and one outside Up until recently both worked perfectly. For reasons that I cannot fathom the light on the outside wall plate will not come on yet the inside one works OK. When I disconnect the antenna cable from the back of the plate the light on the defective one the green light comes on. Replaced wall plate with a new one, same deal;
The following info is from the Winegard website
NEW Model -This unit is equipped with a polyswitch (current limiting device), which will shut down +12V if there is direct short between antenna and power supply. Green indicator light will not light. Once short is elimiated, device will reset inself in approximately 2 minutes.
Does the above mean that the antenna cable has a short with in itself at one of its connections such as the ends or at the splitter where ever that is or is a 12 volt wire some where bare & resting against a joiner.
Thanks in advance Daz
Hi Daz
did you disconnected on of the wires on the back????
if you have a multimeter check if there is power coming to the one that wont work
maybe a fuse somewhere
Cheers John
Hi John the 12 volt supply is all intact The problem is with the coaxial cable. when the cable is connected the green light goes off. Disconnect the coax and all is OK What I want to know is why is the Coax shorting
Daz
check the actual connections at each end with a magnifying glass to see if there is a single strand of copper from the shield that might be shorting it.
frank
Thanks to all for your input.
Problem resolved. Determined that the inside wall plate under the antenna feeds a second TV outlet This Coax went across to the outdoors wall plate. When watching TV outdoors I have been unaware that the Poly switch on the inside wall plate had been on as if watching TV indoors. The 12 volt power supply to the antenna comes from the switch inside and the outdoors wall plate switch is superfluous.
all is well
Daz
at least we will have some idea if someone else comes in with a similar problem.
glad you are sorted out.
frank
Incorrect The switch supplies power to the antenna
Gawd.. here I go being pedantic again....
Sorry mate, a Polyswitch is what I described. You are talking about the Selector Switch being in the wrong position.
Here's a bit of light reading to explain what it is...
Resettable Fuse
Here are some common types of Polyswitch or Polyfuse
I confess I'm confused. The OP stated that "Up until recently both worked perfectly." So what changed between then and now?
He also states that "When I disconnect the antenna cable from the back of the plate the light on the defective one the green light comes on". What does that mean?
Which wall plate model are we talking about?
FWIW, I found the following documents:
www.winegard.com/kbase/upload/2452013.pdf
www.winegard.com/kbase/upload/2451889.pdf
The OP states that "I have two Winegard wall plates which both have the small electronic board at the back which boosts the signal". However, Winegard's PDF states that "This unit is not an amplifier. Use only with a Winegard amplified RV antenna."
Winegard's document has the following warning:
"Do not install couplers, splitters, etc. between the power supply and the antenna. Installation of any item on the downlead may cause a short in the system. The downlead supplies +12 VDC to the preamp in the antenna."
Winegard also states that there is "No +12 VDC at this point", referring to the "2ND Set Hook Up".
ISTM that, if the outdoor wall plate is getting its "antenna" feed from the TV output of the indoor wall plate, then the outdoor wall plate should not be connected to a power supply, in which case the outdoor green LED should never be on.
-- Edited by dorian on Sunday 27th of April 2014 06:05:35 AM
After looking at the PDF's you supplied, I agree Dorian. Basically, 12V needs to be fed to the antenna Pre Amp only, from the wall socket that the power supply is connected to. It doesn't need to be fed to the other secondary wall plate. If the LED illuminates on the secondary wallplate it would seem that the coax cables have been connected incorrectly. ie. The cable to the secondary wall plate has been connected to the antenna connection of the powered wallplate.
Is the secondary wall plate the same the as the internal wallplate? ie with a Power Switch and a LED? If it is, it would seem to be the wrong use of a wallplate that is meant for indoor use only, unless protected by weatherproof box of some sort.
From the supplied documents, the system appears to be no different to your standard house system with a mast head amplifier on the antenna. The MHA is supplied through only one of you house TV outlets via a splitter with a power pass (which in the OP's case is located on the back of the first TV outlet). The other TV outlets are connected via the passive connections on the splitter.
Edit: Oh yes, and I forgot to mention... The power supply is protected from dead shorts across the antenna feed cable by a Polyswitch (Polyfuse) circuit protection device.
-- Edited by 03_troopy on Sunday 27th of April 2014 07:36:55 AM
So in conclusion The inside wall plate is the power supply to the antenna & coax is connected to the second TV outlet on the board & then to the outside Antenna input. You can run two TVs if need be as long as the push switch inside is on. The split of signal happens on the inside wall plate
As I said I did not understand how it worked and reacted when there was no TV reception outside.
Any one need a spare power supply Winegard wall plate??
Thanks
Over & out
Daz
Cheers
Bob
You are not on your own being a goose occasionally Daz...
Aussie Paul.
I just have one more question. Is the outdoor wall plate identical to the indoor one? If so, then ISTM that it may be an incorrect choice.
Here is Winegard's wall plate product range:
www.winegard.com/mobile/wallplates.php
It now appears that the OP may be using something like the RV-7012 with integrated +12 VDC "cigarette lighter" receptacle for TV set plug-in. I mistakenly assumed it was the RV-0822 (or similar) which does not have a DC power socket (yes, I'm a goose, too).
If the model is in fact the RV-7012, then it has a 2-way splitter for connecting two TVs, plus a cable input.
The ON/OFF switch selects either the Antenna input (ON) or Cable input (OFF). It also switches the antenna power on and off.
The splitter attenuates the signal by 3dB. That is, the signal power is reduced by half. If the same wall plate is used outdoors, it will reduce the signal power by an additional 3dB, ie the signal power would be reduced to one quarter. Winegard's recommended choice is something like the TG-7321, although this wall plate is specified for indoor use.
www.winegard.com/kbase/upload/2451489.pdf
Here are the instructions for the models I alluded to in my earlier post:
www.winegard.com/kbase/upload/2451488.pdf
www.winegard.com/kbase/upload/2451487.pdf
www.winegard.com/kbase/upload/2451486.pdf
Identical plates, indoors supplying signal to outdoor plate
RV 7012
I presume the signal is only halved if you have a TV connected at each outlet
Daz
-- Edited by dazz49 on Sunday 27th of April 2014 08:07:56 PM
Thanks Frank
I see you were also on the Caravanners forum
daz
-- Edited by dazz49 on Sunday 27th of April 2014 09:02:59 PM
Unterminated splitters cause all sorts of problems related to signal quality, primarily due to reflections resulting from the mismatched impedances. Ideally you should never have more splitters and splitter outputs than are necessary, and if there are unused outputs, then these should be terminated.
You can buy 75 ohm terminators for around $1, eg ...
http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=PP0639
Here is a tech note from the Aussie government (it's actually useful):
web.archive.org/web/20140212022927/http://www.digitalready.gov.au/getattachment/0718be14-25e6-4060-bbb5-0f0858857dbd/Unterminated-ports-and-cables-within-shared-antenn
Essentially what you have is an antenna system with a "characteristic impedance" of 75 ohms that has to be matched to a network of TV devices. This network has to present the same 75 ohm characteristic impedance to the antenna in order to maximise power transfer and to minimise reflections.
I'm no communications engineer, but I would think that a correctly terminated 2-way splitter would look like a single 75 ohm impedance. AISI, removing one of the terminations would then make the splitter and its single TV look like a 150 ohm impedance. If you were then to cascade this splitter into a second unterminated 2-way splitter, you would have a 300 ohm impedance.
I would suggest that some experimentation might be in order. My LG TVs all have "signal strength" and "signal quality" meters in the manual tuning section of the setup menu. If your TV has a similar feature, then perhaps you could compare the numbers for the indoor and outdoor connections, with and without 75 terminations.
-- Edited by dorian on Monday 28th of April 2014 05:38:32 AM
This is my take on the wiring inside the RV-7012 wall plate:
_ _ / \ .------------. / \ CABLE ( o---------------| | |--------o ) TV1 coax \_/ | | | \_/ (indoor) OFF o | 2-way | \--o--| splitter | _ ON o | | | _ / \ | | | | / \ ANT ( o------+--------| | | |--------o ) TV2 coax \_/ | | '------------' \_/ (outdoor) | | +----+ | | | ON/OFF switch | _ \_ .-. +---o_/ \o----o \o----+------------------|o| +12V | Polyswitch | | | from battery | | +-----+---|o| Gnd | | | | '-' | | | | <- V Green | === +----| - LED | GND | | | /-\ | | ( ) TV1 Power .-. | \+/ Output | | | | | | +-------------------| '-' | === GND (created by AACircuit v1.28.7 beta 02/28/13 www.tech-chat.de)