Hi all, just installed a Tekonsha P3 brake controller and noticed the blue led display stays on full time even when the vehicle is switched off. is this normal? Thanks RR
dorian said
08:40 PM Apr 12, 2014
According to page 3 of the installation manual, the screen should go blank after 15 minutes of inactivity.
"Power to P3 but display is in power saving mode (no motion or activity for at least fifteen minutes)."
ROAD RUNNER said
08:16 PM Apr 13, 2014
Thanks, I checked page 3 and yes it does explain no motion activity etc but the led display on my unit has stayed lit for the past two days with no motion at all so I would say the unit may be faulty?, regards
Paul and Pam on Tour said
08:26 PM Apr 13, 2014
Road Runner....as a follow up, has your issue P3 issue where it appears not to shut down been corrected?
KFT said
10:14 AM Apr 14, 2014
mine goes off after a while.
are you sure it has been wired correctly?
frank
ROAD RUNNER said
10:55 PM Apr 16, 2014
Hi again, well the problem still exists. I, m fairly confident my wiring is okay as the braking function works fine. I googled the P3 and there were numerous negative comments on the P3 model. Not sure how much current the unit draws on standby however given that my 100 series LC has 2 operating battery's and a third deep cycle it would take a while to run them flat I would think
Paul and Pam on Tour said
07:28 AM Apr 17, 2014
Road runner, the Tekonsha P3 will use almost no power when on standby, and incidentally this brake controller, to my knowledge anyway, is still produced in the US and is generally considered to be one of the best available. I certainly have had no issue with mine and I know of no acquaintances who have. You can find negative comments on almost anything you like to choose, my point being Tekonsha products are not Chinese rubbish.
Now, as noted the unit should turn itself off after about 15 mins......unless it senses that the vehicle is still powered up, something there is making your unit think it is still being used, following that 15 minute pause the unit will (should) go to sleep and should not awaken until you start up, put your foot on the brake pedal or touch any of the controls on the device, when it does awaken it should flash red at you telling you that there is no trailer connected (assuming no trailer is on at the time).
You say you are 'fairly confident' that the wiring is ok, my advice firstly is to ensure the wiring is ok, you may need to follow the path of each of the four wires connected to the control...be particularly sure that the input from the brake light circuit (red wire) is not energized unless the pedal is depressed, this is best checked with a multimeter to ensure not even a tiny current is detected, check also that the earth (white wire) is good, ideally it should go directly to the negative pole on your starter battery, again, use a multimeter to ensure continuity and satisfactory earthing. The main power supply to the controller (black wire) should be sourced directly from the positive post on the starter battery via a 30 amp fuse and via wire of correct gauge.
Finally check your trailer connection at the rear of your 'cruiser....follow the blue cable from the controller all the way to the trailer connection, check that there are no abrasion points along the route, does it come close to the exhaust for example, undo the plug, check closely that there are no errant strands of wire creating a minor connection between poles, check that there is nothing in there that could cause a cross connection, ie, moisture laden dust, insect hibernation etc.
If all these checks fail to find anything and the unit is still not shutting down I'm afraid there must be a fault....I do recall that I once came across another brand of brake controller that was faulty and had the experts stumped...turned out that the backyard installer had used screws that were too long to secure the unit to the bracket!
Naturally the supplier wasn't interested in replacing it under warranty.
Lets know how you go.
dorian said
07:48 AM Apr 17, 2014
I would disconnect the wire going to the brake light and see if the controller then goes to sleep.
ROAD RUNNER said
09:03 PM Apr 17, 2014
Thanks for showing interest in this and advice. I just disconnected each wire in turn and the red wire to the brake did nothing including the blue however disconnecting the white earth wire caused the display to flash non stop. Reconnected and flashing stopped. Disconnected the black wire and no display. Reconnected all wires and display lights up but stays on. Next step is to check each wire and connection as per your suggestion. One thing I failed to mention is that the white earth wire is connected to the earth pole on one of the starter batteries but the black power wire is actually connected to the positive pole on the third accessory deep cycle battery so wondering if this could be a factor. The previous owner wired it up this way which I thougthougt was strange so will relocate the positive wire to see if that is the issue. Interestingly my neighbor had the previous model (voyager) on his Territory and the green led wouldnt go off yet I had the same model Voyager with no such problem so there you go. Will let you know the outcome of the black wire relocation,
KFT said
09:27 PM Apr 17, 2014
roadrunner, make sure when you connect the supply to the battery you include a self resetting circuit breaker at the correct rating and not a fuse.
frank
Paul and Pam on Tour said
07:42 AM Apr 18, 2014
Good one Frank, I forgot to mention that....you can get a 30 amp self-setting fuse from an auto parts store for maybe $20. Not sure if having the main power feed connected to an accessory battery is a good thing or not but for my money the starter or main battery will give uninterrupted supply.
The fact that the display flashed when you disconnected the earth is good, the P3 has several 'failure notifications' such as an ability to detect a short circuit, faulty electric brake magnets or, as you discovered, loss of an efficient earth to chassis.
ROAD RUNNER said
10:49 AM Apr 22, 2014
Well the great mystery has been solved thanks to some of your good advice peoples. Turns out that the round 7 pin plug on my towbar has 6 small LED lights above the plug that act as a test lamp and come on individually according to which wire has current flowing. The LEDs can be switched on and off by a small button on the plug body so when I pressed the button the brake controller display went off after the 15 mins period. Press it again and the display stays on due to live current connected to the brake controller blue wire. Thanks for everyones advice, regards RR
dorian said
11:39 AM Apr 22, 2014
ROAD RUNNER wrote:
Well the great mystery has been solved thanks to some of your good advice peoples. Turns out that the round 7 pin plug on my towbar has 6 small LED lights above the plug that act as a test lamp and come on individually according to which wire has current flowing. The LEDs can be switched on and off by a small button on the plug body so when I pressed the button the brake controller display went off after the 15 mins period. Press it again and the display stays on due to live current connected to the brake controller blue wire. Thanks for everyones advice, regards RR
I was getting ready to suggest that the car's computer may be testing the lamps on a periodic basis but I discounted this possibility when you said that disconnecting the red wire (brake lamp) made no difference. Now you are saying that the blue wire is responsible. I confess I don't understand how that could be possible since this is an output from the controller, not an input. Furthermore, it makes no sense to me why disconnecting the white wire (earth) does not interrupt power to the box.
Paul and Pam on Tour said
01:04 PM Apr 22, 2014
I too am somewhat confused, as Guru noted the blue wire would (should) only be energized when the brake controller is activated, ie, you have your foot on the brake pedal or you operate the slider...it is the power output to the brakes....the fact that disconnecting the earth wire causes a flashing is, as mentioned, likely a feature with the P3 whereas it can detect an abnormality, you would expect a similar result if there was a short circuit detected (a brake magnet wire shorting for example), however if this flashing occurred when the supply wire (black) was also disconnected it would indicate a fault, possibly internally.
As it is at the moment I would you suggest to trial the operation of the controller prior to actually towing something, perhaps inserting a multimeter into the blue connection and noting the voltage on the meter when the slider is activated.
dorian said
02:44 PM Apr 22, 2014
Perhaps the lamp sense input is tied up to BAT+ via a pullup resistor. If so, then disconnecting the red wire would cause the sense input to sit at 12V, in which case the controller would think that the tow vehicle's brakes were applied. However, if this were the case, then the controller would energise the blue wire and the trailer brakes would be on all the time.
Normally, when the red wire is connected, the brake lamps provide a low resistance (10 ohms ?) path to ground, so the sense input would be sitting close to 0V. In retrospect, when testing for brake activity, the red wire should have been disconnected and held against ground for 15 minutes.
As for disconnecting the white wire, perhaps the box finds a return path via its metal frame, mounting screw, trailer chassis, tow ball, car chassis, and then on to the battery's negative terminal. The controller might sense the missing earth wire by monitoring the voltage across a low value sense resistor connected between the white wire and the metal frame.
Paul and Pam on Tour said
03:52 PM Apr 22, 2014
"Perhaps the lamp sense input is tied up to BAT+ via a pullup resistor. If so, then disconnecting the red wire would cause the sense input to sit at 12V, in which case the controller would think that the tow vehicle's brakes were applied. However, if this were the case, then the controller would energise the blue wire and the trailer brakes would be on all the time."
Maybe this is quite possible....and considering that the braking 'pressure' of course in the P3 is dictated by inertia, or rather, deceleration...so in this situation, without a trailer connected, the fact the trailer brakes are operating they would go undetected, except that the brake lights would be illuminated whenever the ignition is on perhaps.
I am still thinking of some 'input leakage' into the blue circuit, I can imagine a single wire strand applying some current the blue one in back of the 7 pin female plug.
ROAD RUNNER said
09:32 PM Apr 22, 2014
Interesting thoughts and comments and appreciate your interest in this. I checked the operation of the controller several times today and all is normal with the display switching off provided the small button on the 7 pin trailer plug is set to off. Pressing the button to on again will cause the display to stay on full time. Inside the 7 pin plug there are individual wires connected to each pin which power up the LED test lights whenever the indicators, brakes, parkers etc are activated so my view is that the Prodigy 3 senses power coming through and reacts accordingly by thinking the brakes are stil being active? If that makes any sense?
Hi all, just installed a Tekonsha P3 brake controller and noticed the blue led display stays on full time even when the vehicle is switched off. is this normal? Thanks RR
www.tekonsha.com/content/downloads/installation/N90195.pdf
"Power to P3 but display is in power saving mode (no motion or activity for at least fifteen minutes)."
Thanks, I checked page 3 and yes it does explain no motion activity etc but the led display on my unit has stayed lit for the past two days with no motion at all so I would say the unit may be faulty?, regards
Road Runner....as a follow up, has your issue P3 issue where it appears not to shut down been corrected?
are you sure it has been wired correctly?
frank
Road runner, the Tekonsha P3 will use almost no power when on standby, and incidentally this brake controller, to my knowledge anyway, is still produced in the US and is generally considered to be one of the best available. I certainly have had no issue with mine and I know of no acquaintances who have. You can find negative comments on almost anything you like to choose, my point being Tekonsha products are not Chinese rubbish.
Now, as noted the unit should turn itself off after about 15 mins......unless it senses that the vehicle is still powered up, something there is making your unit think it is still being used, following that 15 minute pause the unit will (should) go to sleep and should not awaken until you start up, put your foot on the brake pedal or touch any of the controls on the device, when it does awaken it should flash red at you telling you that there is no trailer connected (assuming no trailer is on at the time).
You say you are 'fairly confident' that the wiring is ok, my advice firstly is to ensure the wiring is ok, you may need to follow the path of each of the four wires connected to the control...be particularly sure that the input from the brake light circuit (red wire) is not energized unless the pedal is depressed, this is best checked with a multimeter to ensure not even a tiny current is detected, check also that the earth (white wire) is good, ideally it should go directly to the negative pole on your starter battery, again, use a multimeter to ensure continuity and satisfactory earthing. The main power supply to the controller (black wire) should be sourced directly from the positive post on the starter battery via a 30 amp fuse and via wire of correct gauge.
Finally check your trailer connection at the rear of your 'cruiser....follow the blue cable from the controller all the way to the trailer connection, check that there are no abrasion points along the route, does it come close to the exhaust for example, undo the plug, check closely that there are no errant strands of wire creating a minor connection between poles, check that there is nothing in there that could cause a cross connection, ie, moisture laden dust, insect hibernation etc.
If all these checks fail to find anything and the unit is still not shutting down I'm afraid there must be a fault....I do recall that I once came across another brand of brake controller that was faulty and had the experts stumped...turned out that the backyard installer had used screws that were too long to secure the unit to the bracket!
Naturally the supplier wasn't interested in replacing it under warranty.
Lets know how you go.
Thanks for showing interest in this and advice. I just disconnected each wire in turn and the red wire to the brake did nothing including the blue however disconnecting the white earth wire caused the display to flash non stop. Reconnected and flashing stopped. Disconnected the black wire and no display. Reconnected all wires and display lights up but stays on. Next step is to check each wire and connection as per your suggestion. One thing I failed to mention is that the white earth wire is connected to the earth pole on one of the starter batteries but the black power wire is actually connected to the positive pole on the third accessory deep cycle battery so wondering if this could be a factor. The previous owner wired it up this way which I thougthougt was strange so will relocate the positive wire to see if that is the issue. Interestingly my neighbor had the previous model (voyager) on his Territory and the green led wouldnt go off yet I had the same model Voyager with no such problem so there you go. Will let you know the outcome of the black wire relocation,
frank
The fact that the display flashed when you disconnected the earth is good, the P3 has several 'failure notifications' such as an ability to detect a short circuit, faulty electric brake magnets or, as you discovered, loss of an efficient earth to chassis.
I was getting ready to suggest that the car's computer may be testing the lamps on a periodic basis but I discounted this possibility when you said that disconnecting the red wire (brake lamp) made no difference. Now you are saying that the blue wire is responsible. I confess I don't understand how that could be possible since this is an output from the controller, not an input. Furthermore, it makes no sense to me why disconnecting the white wire (earth) does not interrupt power to the box.
As it is at the moment I would you suggest to trial the operation of the controller prior to actually towing something, perhaps inserting a multimeter into the blue connection and noting the voltage on the meter when the slider is activated.
Normally, when the red wire is connected, the brake lamps provide a low resistance (10 ohms ?) path to ground, so the sense input would be sitting close to 0V. In retrospect, when testing for brake activity, the red wire should have been disconnected and held against ground for 15 minutes.
As for disconnecting the white wire, perhaps the box finds a return path via its metal frame, mounting screw, trailer chassis, tow ball, car chassis, and then on to the battery's negative terminal. The controller might sense the missing earth wire by monitoring the voltage across a low value sense resistor connected between the white wire and the metal frame.
"Perhaps the lamp sense input is tied up to BAT+ via a pullup resistor. If so, then disconnecting the red wire would cause the sense input to sit at 12V, in which case the controller would think that the tow vehicle's brakes were applied. However, if this were the case, then the controller would energise the blue wire and the trailer brakes would be on all the time."
Maybe this is quite possible....and considering that the braking 'pressure' of course in the P3 is dictated by inertia, or rather, deceleration...so in this situation, without a trailer connected, the fact the trailer brakes are operating they would go undetected, except that the brake lights would be illuminated whenever the ignition is on perhaps.
I am still thinking of some 'input leakage' into the blue circuit, I can imagine a single wire strand applying some current the blue one in back of the 7 pin female plug.