Went looking in a caravan sales yard this morning and noted what the rego sticker ATM's said.
I was amazed that most of the vans we inspected (17-18ft) had stated ATM's only 2 or 3 hundred KG above the ATM of my 12 foot Avan Cruiser (1160kg)
One in particular - an Avan Madison 2 18ft dual axle had an ATM of 1088kg....less than my 12 ft camper!
Going on stated ATM's, most if not all the vans we checked would be well above their ATM even when empty.
Does this mean that if Joe Blow buys this tandem Madison 2 and has a prang and then the insurance company sees the van is actually well over stated ATM then he will have no insurance and be charged with towing an unroadworthy vehicle?
ATM is the basis for registration charges in Qld - the Madison 2 tandem would be entitled to pay the same rego as a 6 X 4 box trailer.....is this why???
Gerty Dancer said
10:14 PM Mar 20, 2014
I understand ATM to mean Aggregate Trailer Mass = The weight of the trailer or caravan plus its load.
The figures you've given don't sound right, even if they mean Tare weight. As you say... how can this be?
Delta18 said
10:29 PM Mar 20, 2014
I would not be looking on the rego sticker for the van's ATM, the stickers are phased out in most states now anyway.
The only safe way to determine ATM is by the van's Compliance Plate, usually in the front boot.
-- Edited by Delta18 on Friday 21st of March 2014 10:02:09 PM
D and D said
10:34 PM Mar 20, 2014
After being involved with the industry for only 2 years I'm appalled at the lack of regulation and policing of what standards there are in this industry and this is just a another example. Maybe we need a Ford Pinto experience to attract government interest in regulating this industry as they have the motor vehicle industry.
hako said
09:26 PM Mar 21, 2014
Delta18 wrote:
I would not be looking on there rego sticker for the van's ATM, the stickers are phased out in most states now anyway.
The only safe way to determine ATM is by the van's Compliance Plate, usually in the front boot.
The problem there is that the rego sticker states what the van ATM is...the plate on the van bears no relationship to what the owner has said is his ATM and ulimately it is up to the owner to ensure that his van is registered to what he will load it with. When it comes to law, ignorance is no excuse so vans with incorrect ATMs are asking for trouble IMHO.
When the rego stickers disappear, the copper will punch the rego number of the van into his computer and possibly ask himself why this 18ft tandem wheel van running 8 ply tyres only has an ATM of 1088KG.....if it was me I'd say the van had rego plates lifted from a box trailer.
Regards
rockylizard said
09:44 PM Mar 21, 2014
Gday...
Should I be wrong, someone please jump in and correct me.
But .... I thought the weight displayed/recorded on the rego label/papers for a van was the TARE .... NOT the ATM.
[Broadly speaking ATM is TARE plus 300 or 400kg depending on size of van]
Cheers - John
KFT said
09:48 PM Mar 21, 2014
The only weight on my rego is labelled GVM which is the GTM on the Vin Plate.
there are no other figures relating to weight on it.
NSW caravan rego.
frank
rockylizard said
09:59 PM Mar 21, 2014
Gday...
Perhaps it is a "State" thing .... my van is registered Victoria - and I just went and checked it to confirm ... it shows the TARE.
Interestingly, the rego sticker and papers show the TARE of my van is 1950Kg .... but the compliance plate in the van boot shows TARE as 2050Kg.
I have had my van over the scales - completely stripped of gas bottles, spare wheel, no water in tanks or heater, toilet empty of chemicals etc and none of my stuff inside.
It came up as 2140Kg TARE. But in the days I bought it there was not the angst about weights and the advice to have it "re-plated" to comply was never offered as a solution.
Cheers - John
ShortNorth said
10:04 PM Mar 21, 2014
hako wrote:.................................. ask himself why this 18ft tandem wheel van running 8 ply tyres only has an ATM of 1088KG.....if it was me I'd say the van had rego plates lifted from a box trailer.....................................
G'day Denis,
Actually, the cut-off point in Qld. is 1020kg - if it is 1020kg or lower it attracts the 'low' rego fee - if it is from 1020kg up to 4.5 tonnes? it attracts the 'high' rego fee. (A common trick in Qld is to get a very HD trailer made, say up to 1200kg or 1500kg structural rating, but get it plated by the maker as only 1018kg ATM [and legally only able to weigh up to 1018kg], so it attracts the lower fee, but is far stronger than a trailer made only to a 1020kg specification).
For example my 900kg ATM HD enclosed box trailer is under 1020, so I only pay the lower fee for that, but my 1100kg ATM Aliner is above 1020, so I pay the higher fee for that.
Also coupled with the 1020kg limit is separate number plate series - for the low trailers the series is ZZ-9999 only, but the high trailers use the same as a normal car 999-ZZZ, and the high trailers can in fact use personalised plates, but not the low trailers. Before we bought the Aliner we had two cars, both with personal plates, so when we downsized to a one car family, my wife 'parked' her personal plates (she owns them for life). So, when we rego'ed the Aliner we reg'd it with her 'old' personal plates. We often get other campers asking how we managed to get 'personal plates' on the Aliner.
Went looking in a caravan sales yard this morning and noted what the rego sticker ATM's said.
I was amazed that most of the vans we inspected (17-18ft) had stated ATM's only 2 or 3 hundred KG above the ATM of my 12 foot Avan Cruiser (1160kg)
One in particular - an Avan Madison 2 18ft dual axle had an ATM of 1088kg....less than my 12 ft camper!
Going on stated ATM's, most if not all the vans we checked would be well above their ATM even when empty.
Does this mean that if Joe Blow buys this tandem Madison 2 and has a prang and then the insurance company sees the van is actually well over stated ATM then he will have no insurance and be charged with towing an unroadworthy vehicle?
ATM is the basis for registration charges in Qld - the Madison 2 tandem would be entitled to pay the same rego as a 6 X 4 box trailer.....is this why???
The figures you've given don't sound right, even if they mean Tare weight. As you say... how can this be?
I would not be looking on the rego sticker for the van's ATM, the stickers are phased out in most states now anyway.
The only safe way to determine ATM is by the van's Compliance Plate, usually in the front boot.
-- Edited by Delta18 on Friday 21st of March 2014 10:02:09 PM
The problem there is that the rego sticker states what the van ATM is...the plate on the van bears no relationship to what the owner has said is his ATM and ulimately it is up to the owner to ensure that his van is registered to what he will load it with. When it comes to law, ignorance is no excuse so vans with incorrect ATMs are asking for trouble IMHO.
When the rego stickers disappear, the copper will punch the rego number of the van into his computer and possibly ask himself why this 18ft tandem wheel van running 8 ply tyres only has an ATM of 1088KG.....if it was me I'd say the van had rego plates lifted from a box trailer.
Regards
Gday...
Should I be wrong, someone please jump in and correct me.
But .... I thought the weight displayed/recorded on the rego label/papers for a van was the TARE .... NOT the ATM.
[Broadly speaking ATM is TARE plus 300 or 400kg depending on size of van]
Cheers - John
there are no other figures relating to weight on it.
NSW caravan rego.
frank
Gday...
Perhaps it is a "State" thing .... my van is registered Victoria - and I just went and checked it to confirm ... it shows the TARE.
Interestingly, the rego sticker and papers show the TARE of my van is 1950Kg .... but the compliance plate in the van boot shows TARE as 2050Kg.
I have had my van over the scales - completely stripped of gas bottles, spare wheel, no water in tanks or heater, toilet empty of chemicals etc and none of my stuff inside.
It came up as 2140Kg TARE. But in the days I bought it there was not the angst about weights and the advice to have it "re-plated" to comply was never offered as a solution.
Cheers - John
G'day Denis,
Actually, the cut-off point in Qld. is 1020kg - if it is 1020kg or lower it attracts the 'low' rego fee - if it is from 1020kg up to 4.5 tonnes? it attracts the 'high' rego fee. (A common trick in Qld is to get a very HD trailer made, say up to 1200kg or 1500kg structural rating, but get it plated by the maker as only 1018kg ATM [and legally only able to weigh up to 1018kg], so it attracts the lower fee, but is far stronger than a trailer made only to a 1020kg specification).
For example my 900kg ATM HD enclosed box trailer is under 1020, so I only pay the lower fee for that, but my 1100kg ATM Aliner is above 1020, so I pay the higher fee for that.
Also coupled with the 1020kg limit is separate number plate series - for the low trailers the series is ZZ-9999 only, but the high trailers use the same as a normal car 999-ZZZ, and the high trailers can in fact use personalised plates, but not the low trailers. Before we bought the Aliner we had two cars, both with personal plates, so when we downsized to a one car family, my wife 'parked' her personal plates (she owns them for life). So, when we rego'ed the Aliner we reg'd it with her 'old' personal plates. We often get other campers asking how we managed to get 'personal plates' on the Aliner.
Regards, Brian