Using a clevis slip hook on safety chains - legal?
hako said
02:20 PM Mar 17, 2014
As per the heading, I've noticed a few people using clevis hooks to make it easier to attach safety chains to their towbar. They maintain that the clevis hook is legal as on the packaging it says suitable for caravans and the load rating is more than adequate, however I've always seen "Dee" shackles used for this purpose and I thought that was all you can use legally. Appearance wise they look pretty daggy hanging down but apparently can save you getting on your knees to attach chains.
The laws state that attatching methods must be as strong or stronger than the chain which itself must be able to take the weight of the van both dropping onto the chains & towing that van.
Although these hooks may be rated high enough they are rated as SLING hooks which means they are for lifting, not taking the shock load of a van falling off the towbar.
My thoughts anyway.
oldbobsbus said
04:07 PM Mar 17, 2014
Nahhhhhh not for me I have had a trailer come off and I know how much load the chains and shackles take before it situation can be rectified..
Even with the lock clip I would worry that they can come unhooked ...Also you would need an extra large hole to hang them from..
Would you hang them clip up or clip down.?????
native pepper said
04:25 PM Mar 17, 2014
We use them on our trailers, attached to the chains, they just clip onto the shackles on the tow bar. Makes hooking up and unhooking so much faster and easier. Never had one come undone ever and use them on chained dog and pig trailers for many years.
moamajohn said
04:27 PM Mar 17, 2014
D clamps anyday for me, my rigs worth the effort of bending down ,we don,t detach every day any way .
briche said
05:36 PM Mar 17, 2014
I spoke to police in NSW and was told that you must D shackles and preferred Bow line D shackles rated at least double of the weight of the van. Anything else is not legal. I was considering the clevis hooks for ease of attaching, etc so thought I would find out what the law said.
Also in relation to this area the chains must also be rated to take the snap weight if the tow hitch should fail and should be of a length that will not allow the A frame to reach the ground.
so hope that helps
briche
hako said
11:39 PM Mar 17, 2014
Thanks for the replies......think I might persist with the D shackles till I'm sure it is legal to use clevis hooks.
briche - I know that's the intent of the law but from what I've seen it is impossible to stop the A frame hitting the ground.
Regards
ozjohn said
08:43 AM Mar 18, 2014
While some States highly recommend the use of suitable rated shackles there is no legislation requiring them to be used. You can use anything you like including fencing wire, but must be able to show that each item of what ever you're using is capable of supporting at least 1.5 times the ATM of the trailer. For me that means I used Rated Shackles and not unbranded (Unrated) shackles from various outlets including HR. Cheers, Ozjohn.
Yuglamron said
12:20 PM Mar 18, 2014
I'm with Ozjohn on this one I use rated shackles everytimefrom 6x4 trailers to my Flat Tow Suzuki. Too much at stake both in financial terms and Liabilty towards other road users.
Not keen on getting on my knees but a garden knee protector pad to use when attaching the shackles helps.
The clevis pins are fine for tension but not for shock. I know they are rated to a large tonnage for tension but shock is a totally different thing.
Baz421 said
12:46 PM Mar 18, 2014
Here's the QLD safe towing guide based on VSB1, and chain breaking strength must equal the trailer ATM (refer VSB1)
-- Edited by KFT on Tuesday 18th of March 2014 01:40:33 PM
OK you got me there,,, but you will need special towbar OR a deep throat, rated D shackle to attach to vehicle would you not?
Don't get me wrong I'm not trying to be negative, just practical.
I didn't think you'd be using a crane lifting hook/chain tie down that size, in my wildest dreams (and I do have em) but you got me here,, lol.
If you buy these hooks they may not fit your existing chain on your van and you can't weld the chain you use with this hook ie it's high tensile garde 70 chain, so again you would need a rated D shackle to attach the high tensile chain to the A frame of your van, ie to the original chain link welded to the A frame.
Have you created a "monster"????
Cheers Baz
native pepper said
05:17 PM Mar 18, 2014
Our hooks are on the chains, they hook over shackles on the towbar, just slip them in, takes a second to do and no getting down trying to undo the shackle. They have a break away strength of 15tonnes, so don't think they will bend or break.
hako said
08:02 PM Mar 18, 2014
Baz421 wrote:
SNIP
The length of the safety chain/s must prevent the trailers drawbar hitting the ground if the
trailer is detached from the towing vehicle.
SNIP
Thanks for that Baz, but it ain't possible on most setups as the safety chain connection is placed in such a position that the chains must be long enough to allow the vehicle to turn. I've never had one yet that doesn't hit the ground. I should add that I'm talking about cars/SUV's, not 4WD vehicles that are much higher than cars.
But I welcome advice on how to overcome this problem.
Regards
Baz421 said
08:46 PM Mar 18, 2014
hako wrote:
Baz421 wrote:
SNIP
The length of the safety chain/s must prevent the trailers drawbar hitting the ground if the
trailer is detached from the towing vehicle.
SNIP
Thanks for that Baz, but it ain't possible on most setups as the safety chain connection is placed in such a position that the chains must be long enough to allow the vehicle to turn. I've never had one yet that doesn't hit the ground. I should add that I'm talking about cars/SUV's, not 4WD vehicles that are much higher than cars.
But I welcome advice on how to overcome this problem.
Regards
Yeh I agree our aframe will hit the ground if we have a ball/tongue failure. We have a Reece WDH made in USA and ball is set back about 300mm from chain anchorage points.
elliemike said
09:02 PM Mar 18, 2014
Watched someone last week attaching the chains on a Camper trailer with two of these. No way would that take a shock load of that camper coming off the ball.
Baz421 said
09:08 PM Mar 18, 2014
elliemike wrote:
Watched someone last week attaching the chains on a Camper trailer with two of these. No way would that take a shock load of that camper coming off the ball.
Agree 100%. They are not load rated generally however some marine stainless steel ones are, but as I stated earlier I haven't ever seen one rated at 4.5 tonnes which I would need for my van.
-- Edited by KFT on Tuesday 18th of March 2014 01:40:33 PM
Firstly, these are manufactured in China and marketed in the US. It is highly unlikely that the manufacturer or marketer is even aware of Australian Standards let alone what is required to comply with them.
Secondly, I cannot see any indication of what standard these things do conform to and my experience with Chinese manufactured products doesn't give me a lot of confidence that they conform to any standard.
If you want to go down this path then at least contact an Australian supplier of these types of products that conform to Australian Standards and seek their advice about the legality of such products in the way you wish to use them.
-- Edited by KFT on Tuesday 18th of March 2014 01:40:33 PM
OK you got me there,,, but you will need special towbar OR a deep throat, rated D shackle to attach to vehicle would you not?
Don't get me wrong I'm not trying to be negative, just practical.
I didn't think you'd be using a crane lifting hook/chain tie down that size, in my wildest dreams (and I do have em) but you got me here,, lol.
If you buy these hooks they may not fit your existing chain on your van and you can't weld the chain you use with this hook ie it's high tensile garde 70 chain, so again you would need a rated D shackle to attach the high tensile chain to the A frame of your van, ie to the original chain link welded to the A frame.Have you created a "monster"????Cheers Baz
It's illegal to attach the chain to the A-frame of a trailer using shackles. Ozjohn
Ref: ADR62/01 14.3.1.Safety chains must be permanently attached to the trailer.
-- Edited by KFT on Tuesday 18th of March 2014 01:40:33 PM
OK you got me there,,, but you will need special towbar OR a deep throat, rated D shackle to attach to vehicle would you not?
Don't get me wrong I'm not trying to be negative, just practical.
I didn't think you'd be using a crane lifting hook/chain tie down that size, in my wildest dreams (and I do have em) but you got me here,, lol.
If you buy these hooks they may not fit your existing chain on your van and you can't weld the chain you use with this hook ie it's high tensile garde 70 chain, so again you would need a rated D shackle to attach the high tensile chain to the A frame of your van, ie to the original chain link welded to the A frame.Have you created a "monster"????Cheers Baz
It's illegal to attach the chain to the A-frame of a trailer using shackles. Ozjohn
Ref: ADR62/01 14.3.1.Safety chains must be permanently attached to the trailer.
14.3.1.1.Shackles are not permitted.
Yep that's why I said he creating a monster,,, you know a cluster F***.
Radar said
09:17 PM Mar 19, 2014
It wpreall y is a load of (looking for the word) is it not, the caravan come with a chain or chains. Cheers.
elliemike said
10:21 PM Mar 19, 2014
Radar wrote:
It wpreall y is a load of (looking for the word) is it not, the caravan come with a chain or chains. Cheers.
What ?
ozjohn said
04:07 PM Mar 20, 2014
Baz421
If you wish to tow say 3500Kg you don't need 3.5T Rated Shackles. 2.5T or 2T etc will suffice. The WWL (Working Load Limit) of Rated Shackle is 6 times the Rate shown on the shackle in the case of an 'S' or '6' rating. (will be stamped or embossed on the shackle body). In the case of an 'M' or '4' rate it is 4 times the shackle rate shown.
From memory and without looking at by data sheets the breaking load limit is around 19 time the rates shown on a 'S' or '6' rated shackle.
Travel safe us only Rated Shackles not unbranded ones or ones just showing the towbar manufacturers name. Cheers, Ozjohn.
Baz421 said
08:30 PM Mar 20, 2014
ozjohn wrote:
Baz421
If you wish to tow say 3500Kg you don't need 3.5T Rated Shackles. 2.5T or 2T etc will suffice. The WWL (Working Load Limit) of Rated Shackle is 6 times the Rate shown on the shackle in the case of an 'S' or '6' rating. (will be stamped or embossed on the shackle body). In the case of an 'M' or '4' rate it is 4 times the shackle rate shown.
From memory and without looking at by data sheets the breaking load limit is around 19 time the rates shown on a 'S' or '6' rated shackle.
Travel safe us only Rated Shackles not unbranded ones or ones just showing the towbar manufacturers name. Cheers, Ozjohn.
John on 18/3/14 I posted this quote from QLD transport.
A suitable shackle is where:
the shackle is rated and complies with Australian Standard AS 2741-2002 Shackles
or other equivalent recognised standard; and
the break load limit of the shackle is rated at least 1.5 times greater than the ATM of
the trailer.
ozjohn said
09:00 AM Mar 21, 2014
Baz421 wrote:
ozjohn wrote:
Baz421
If you wish to tow say 3500Kg you don't need 3.5T Rated Shackles. 2.5T or 2T etc will suffice. The WWL (Working Load Limit) of Rated Shackle is 6 times the Rate shown on the shackle in the case of an 'S' or '6' rating. (will be stamped or embossed on the shackle body). In the case of an 'M' or '4' rate it is 4 times the shackle rate shown.
From memory and without looking at by data sheets the breaking load limit is around 19 time the rates shown on a 'S' or '6' rated shackle.
Travel safe us only Rated Shackles not unbranded ones or ones just showing the towbar manufacturers name. Cheers, Ozjohn.
John on 18/3/14 I posted this quote from QLD transport. A suitable shackle is where:
the shackle is rated and complies with Australian Standard AS 2741-2002 Shackles
or other equivalent recognised standard; and
the break load limit of the shackle is rated at least 1.5 times greater than the ATM of
the trailer.
Baz. True: Whatever is used must be capable of supporting 1.5 time the ATM of the trailer. Shackles are rated at WLL not Breaking Load Limit, so a 2T 'S' or '6' rated shackle has a WLL of 12T. But personally I prefer to keep well under the WLL. Cheers, Ozjohn.
KevinC said
11:59 AM Mar 21, 2014
OK, I've read all the above but need just a bit more clarification. Yes I use rated shackles, the gal ones with the yellow pin. Is it fair to assume that the largest shackle (pin) that will fit through the hole in the towbar will be good enough to do the job? (If I'd been making towbars I think I would've made the holes larger.)
-- Edited by KevinC on Friday 21st of March 2014 12:00:37 PM
Yuglamron said
01:28 PM Mar 21, 2014
This is copied from the National Caravan and Recreational Vehicle Site.
The chains attach the A frame or drawbar of the trailer to the main towbar framework on the vehicle. The attachment must be made with D shackles of equivalent strength to the chains. It is vital that the chains are attached to the main towbar framework and not to a detachable ball mount or tongue. Safety chains must be stamped with the chains capacity, the manufacturers identification and the digits 4177.
This is copied from the National Caravan and Recreational Vehicle Site.
The chains attach the A frame or drawbar of the trailer to the main towbar framework on the vehicle. The attachment must be made with D shackles of equivalent strength to the chains. It is vital that the chains are attached to the main towbar framework and not to a detachable ball mount or tongue. Safety chains must be stamped with the chains capacity, the manufacturers identification and the digits 4177.
Unfortunately a towing guide issued by a private organisation DOES NOT replace/supecede the QLD Transport bulletin I posted as this takes precedence (in QLD at least) and other states will have their own versions presumably.
Aus-Kiwi said
05:09 PM Mar 25, 2014
On my trailers from boat to car trailers I have two chains and two u section welded to draw bar so I only need a pin through chain link. This way the D shackle can't be lost !! I've lost way too many over the years on boat ramps.. Trying to explain why chain is around ball gives no one any satisfaction !!
As per the heading, I've noticed a few people using clevis hooks to make it easier to attach safety chains to their towbar. They maintain that the clevis hook is legal as on the packaging it says suitable for caravans and the load rating is more than adequate, however I've always seen "Dee" shackles used for this purpose and I thought that was all you can use legally. Appearance wise they look pretty daggy hanging down but apparently can save you getting on your knees to attach chains.
So, does anyone know for sure?
http://www.uscargocontrol.com/Tie-Downs-Hardware/Wire-Grab-S-Hooks/1-2-Clevis-Slip-Hook-Grade-70_2
I doubt it would be legat.
The laws state that attatching methods must be as strong or stronger than the chain which itself must be able to take the weight of the van both dropping onto the chains & towing that van.
Although these hooks may be rated high enough they are rated as SLING hooks which means they are for lifting, not taking the shock load of a van falling off the towbar.
My thoughts anyway.
Even with the lock clip I would worry that they can come unhooked ...Also you would need an extra large hole to hang them from..
Would you hang them clip up or clip down.?????
I spoke to police in NSW and was told that you must D shackles and preferred Bow line D shackles rated at least double of the weight of the van. Anything else is not legal. I was considering the clevis hooks for ease of attaching, etc so thought I would find out what the law said.
Also in relation to this area the chains must also be rated to take the snap weight if the tow hitch should fail and should be of a length that will not allow the A frame to reach the ground.
so hope that helps
briche
briche - I know that's the intent of the law but from what I've seen it is impossible to stop the A frame hitting the ground.
Regards
While some States highly recommend the use of suitable rated shackles there is no legislation requiring them to be used.
You can use anything you like including fencing wire, but must be able to show that each item of what ever you're using is capable of supporting at least 1.5 times the ATM of the trailer.
For me that means I used Rated Shackles and not unbranded (Unrated) shackles from various outlets including HR.
Cheers, Ozjohn.
I'm with Ozjohn on this one I use rated shackles everytime from 6x4 trailers to my Flat Tow Suzuki. Too much at stake both in financial terms and Liabilty towards other road users.
Not keen on getting on my knees but a garden knee protector pad to use when attaching the shackles helps.
The clevis pins are fine for tension but not for shock. I know they are rated to a large tonnage for tension but shock is a totally different thing.
Here's the QLD safe towing guide based on VSB1, and chain breaking strength must equal the trailer ATM (refer VSB1)
http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/Safety/Vehicle-standards-and-modifications/Loads-and-towing/Safe-towing.aspx
Here's the relevant info.
The length of the safety chain/s must prevent the trailers drawbar hitting the ground if the
trailer is detached from the towing vehicle. The safety chains must be properly connected to
the tow bar with attachments capable of withstanding the specified breaking load of each
chain. Do not use padlocks.
Plus
Safety chain connections (shackles, pins or bolts)
A suitable shackle is where:
the shackle is rated and complies with Australian Standard AS 2741-2002 Shackles
or other equivalent recognised standard; and
the trailer.
PS; I'VE NEVER SEEN A 4.5 TONNE RATED CLEVIS HOOK
-- Edited by Baz421 on Tuesday 18th of March 2014 12:49:10 PM
-- Edited by Baz421 on Tuesday 18th of March 2014 12:51:31 PM
Hey Baz
have a look at these ones
I will have another go at the link
http://www.uscargocontrol.com/Tie-Downs-Hardware/Wire-Grab-S-Hooks/1-2-Clevis-Slip-Hook-Grade-70_2
frank
-- Edited by KFT on Tuesday 18th of March 2014 01:40:33 PM
OK you got me there,,, but you will need special towbar OR a deep throat, rated D shackle to attach to vehicle would you not?
Don't get me wrong I'm not trying to be negative, just practical.
I didn't think you'd be using a crane lifting hook/chain tie down that size, in my wildest dreams (and I do have em) but you got me here,, lol.
If you buy these hooks they may not fit your existing chain on your van and you can't weld the chain you use with this hook ie it's high tensile garde 70 chain, so again you would need a rated D shackle to attach the high tensile chain to the A frame of your van, ie to the original chain link welded to the A frame.
Have you created a "monster"????
Cheers Baz
Thanks for that Baz, but it ain't possible on most setups as the safety chain connection is placed in such a position that the chains must be long enough to allow the vehicle to turn. I've never had one yet that doesn't hit the ground. I should add that I'm talking about cars/SUV's, not 4WD vehicles that are much higher than cars.
But I welcome advice on how to overcome this problem.
Regards
Yeh I agree our aframe will hit the ground if we have a ball/tongue failure. We have a Reece WDH made in USA and ball is set back about 300mm from chain anchorage points.
Agree 100%. They are not load rated generally however some marine stainless steel ones are, but as I stated earlier I haven't ever seen one rated at 4.5 tonnes which I would need for my van.
Firstly, these are manufactured in China and marketed in the US. It is highly unlikely that the manufacturer or marketer is even aware of Australian Standards let alone what is required to comply with them.
Secondly, I cannot see any indication of what standard these things do conform to and my experience with Chinese manufactured products doesn't give me a lot of confidence that they conform to any standard.
If you want to go down this path then at least contact an Australian supplier of these types of products that conform to Australian Standards and seek their advice about the legality of such products in the way you wish to use them.
It's illegal to attach the chain to the A-frame of a trailer using shackles.
Ozjohn
Ref: ADR62/01
14.3.1. Safety chains must be permanently attached to the trailer.
14.3.1.1. Shackles are not permitted.
Yep that's why I said he creating a monster,,, you know a cluster F***.
It wpreall y is a load of (looking for the word) is it not, the caravan come with a chain or chains. Cheers.
What ?
Baz421
If you wish to tow say 3500Kg you don't need 3.5T Rated Shackles.
2.5T or 2T etc will suffice.
The WWL (Working Load Limit) of Rated Shackle is 6 times the Rate shown on the shackle in the case of an 'S' or '6' rating. (will be stamped or embossed on the shackle body).
In the case of an 'M' or '4' rate it is 4 times the shackle rate shown.
From memory and without looking at by data sheets the breaking load limit is around 19 time the rates shown on a 'S' or '6' rated shackle.
Travel safe us only Rated Shackles not unbranded ones or ones just showing the towbar manufacturers name.
Cheers, Ozjohn.
John on 18/3/14 I posted this quote from QLD transport.
A suitable shackle is where:
the shackle is rated and complies with Australian Standard AS 2741-2002 Shackles
or other equivalent recognised standard; and
the trailer.
Baz.
True: Whatever is used must be capable of supporting 1.5 time the ATM of the trailer.
Shackles are rated at WLL not Breaking Load Limit, so a 2T 'S' or '6' rated shackle has a WLL of 12T.
But personally I prefer to keep well under the WLL.
Cheers, Ozjohn.
OK, I've read all the above but need just a bit more clarification.
Yes I use rated shackles, the gal ones with the yellow pin. Is it fair to assume that the largest shackle (pin) that will fit through the hole in the towbar will be good enough to do the job? (If I'd been making towbars I think I would've made the holes larger.)
-- Edited by KevinC on Friday 21st of March 2014 12:00:37 PM
This is copied from the National Caravan and Recreational Vehicle Site.
The chains attach the A frame or drawbar of the trailer to the main towbar framework on the vehicle. The attachment must be made with D shackles of equivalent strength to the chains. It is vital that the chains are attached to the main towbar framework and not to a detachable ball mount or tongue. Safety chains must be stamped with the chains capacity, the manufacturers identification and the digits 4177.
This is the main page.
http://www.towingguide.com.au/content/couplings.html
Unfortunately a towing guide issued by a private organisation DOES NOT replace/supecede the QLD Transport bulletin I posted as this takes precedence (in QLD at least) and other states will have their own versions presumably.