So I had my brakes and bearing service on a dual axle Jayco. Bearings were replaced.
Whenever I hitch up I check the electric brakes. However, after the service I didn't, it was now rush hour and I had to get through the Melbourne suburbs fun times, I just forgot.
It didn't take long to notice that braking was different, like not happening, I felt the car (prado) was doing all the work. I kept playing with the brake control in the car, but suburbia and rush hour weren't really conducive to experiments. But I did boost the settings when stopped at lights and tried the in car brake when almost stopped etc. Little joy, it helped, but no where near as good as prior to the service.
So my question is, can a service affect this? Has anyone experienced this? Is it just a time / bedding in thing?
other than the bearings, only the magnets were swapped over.
I live on a steep block, I have 5kms of downhill mountain to contend with before I hit the main roads and I want to go away next week, the final destination being 17km of downhill dirt road!!! I'm a bit anxious.
And the RV place I got it serviced at aren't answering the phone to answer my questions ;) ........
any feed back welcome
thanks,
MJ
-- Edited by MaryJane on Thursday 13th of March 2014 04:11:32 PM
brian said
05:07 PM Mar 13, 2014
There would be no bedding in required.
If the magnets were replaced, then it is possible that the electrical connections have not been correctly done.
Best bet would be to take it back and watch while they fix it and prove that point to you.
If the shoes weren't replaced, then we would assume that they didn't dissassemble the brakes, so that should rule out incorrect assembly.
I am assuming that you don't know how to adjust and test the electrics yourself.
KFT said
05:08 PM Mar 13, 2014
MJ
you say the magnets were swapped over. do you mean new magnets were fitted?
were the brake drums machined?
there are a few different things to consider
new magnets need "bedding in"
brakes were not correctly adjusted after refitting the drums
magnets not connected properly.
I would be taking it straight back and demand they fix the brakes as a safety issue.
frank
MaryJane said
06:03 PM Mar 13, 2014
brian wrote:
There would be no bedding in required.
If the magnets were replaced, then it is possible that the electrical connections have not been correctly done.
Best bet would be to take it back and watch while they fix it and prove that point to you.
If the shoes weren't replaced, then we would assume that they didn't dissassemble the brakes, so that should rule out incorrect assembly.
I am assuming that you don't know how to adjust and test the electrics yourself.
Hi Brian,
thanks for ur response .
no I have no idea how to adjust and test electrics, I rely on a trusty rv place to do it, that is why I pay them.
The magnets were not replaced, merely swapped over to counteract the wear and tear On each side.
I did eventually get hold of the service company, who I believe are very good.... Response was " need bedding in, a 100kms or so,"
long story, TBC
MaryJane said
06:21 PM Mar 13, 2014
KFT wrote:
MJ you say the magnets were swapped over. do you mean new magnets were fitted? were the brake drums machined?
there are a few different things to consider new magnets need "bedding in" brakes were not correctly adjusted after refitting the drums magnets not connected properly.
I would be taking it straight back and demand they fix the brakes as a safety issue.
frank
Hi Frank,
no, new magnets weren't fitted. I was told the current wear on each side was okay to swap them over and I'll be good for ages.
perhaps the magnets still need bedding in.
i have since got hold of service folk and told I need to bed in for at least a 100kms. But this was second hand from service to receptionist.
In the interim, I have also spoken to a mate that works for a huge trucking company... Same response as you. Take it back for safety's sake.
just have to get it there down a huge incline......
thanks for response, I shall call service place again before I move.
cheers,
MJ
deverall11 said
06:25 PM Mar 13, 2014
Currently having similar problem. In our case I think it comes down to adjustment. There are two schools of thoughts:
1) Adjust brakes so that the wheel turns freely for one revolution.
2) When the brakes have been adjusted so that the wheel is locked, back off the adjustment 13 clicks.
When we took delivery of our van, I adjusted the brakes as per (1). The van braked well and had plenty of adjustment on the controller. After having our van serviced, they adjusted the brakes as per (2). After 3000 kms, I have no brakes to speak of and the controller is adjusted to maximum.
I also think out controller is a cheap variety, so maybe method (2) works fine for a more up-market controller.
Any educated comments most welcome.
Larry
Baz421 said
07:22 PM Mar 13, 2014
OMG Mary Jane I don't believe what they told you. They expect you to drive 100km either WITHOUT BRAKES OR POORLY PERFORMING BRAKES.
This is not good enough. I suggest you ring them first thing tomorrow and tell them this (i'll PM you my mobile and do it for you if you need to) and tell them to fix it,, NO MATTER WHAT THE PROBLEM NOW IS,,,,, where it is currently located or you will report this to consumer affairs OR other relevant organisation in your state.
Other info on here is also misleading so the moral of this story is "if you don't know what you are doing,,, DON'T DO IT --- ESPECIALLY BRAKES".
I really feel fo you Mary Jane as it can be real hastle in cases such as this.
Cheers Baz
brian said
07:32 PM Mar 13, 2014
MaryJane wrote:
brian wrote:
There would be no bedding in required.
If the magnets were replaced, then it is possible that the electrical connections have not been correctly done.
Best bet would be to take it back and watch while they fix it and prove that point to you.
If the shoes weren't replaced, then we would assume that they didn't dissassemble the brakes, so that should rule out incorrect assembly.
I am assuming that you don't know how to adjust and test the electrics yourself.
Hi Brian,
thanks for ur response .
no I have no idea how to adjust and test electrics, I rely on a trusty rv place to do it, that is why I pay them.
The magnets were not replaced, merely swapped over to counteract the wear and tear On each side.
I did eventually get hold of the service company, who I believe are very good.... Response was " need bedding in, a 100kms or so,"
long story, TBC
When the magnets are energised they drag on the drum. Because they are not a tight fit on the yoke, they tilt slightly when dragged by the drum, which wears them more on the leading edge. Swapping them for the other side will make them very ill matched to the drum and they may not grab correctly, this having been done, I would expect that a very much longer bedding in would be required. I don't think that swapping them was a good idea personally.
Having said that, it still may be an electrical problem. If you operate the manual slide on the controller, you should be able to hear the magnets growl, or you can jack up the wheel and see if you can lock tne wheel with the manual control.
MaryJane said
08:13 PM Mar 13, 2014
brian wrote:
MaryJane wrote:
brian wrote:
There would be no bedding in required.
If the magnets were replaced, then it is possible that the electrical connections have not been correctly done.
Best bet would be to take it back and watch while they fix it and prove that point to you.
If the shoes weren't replaced, then we would assume that they didn't dissassemble the brakes, so that should rule out incorrect assembly.
I am assuming that you don't know how to adjust and test the electrics yourself.
Hi Brian,
thanks for ur response .
no I have no idea how to adjust and test electrics, I rely on a trusty rv place to do it, that is why I pay them.
The magnets were not replaced, merely swapped over to counteract the wear and tear On each side.
I did eventually get hold of the service company, who I believe are very good.... Response was " need bedding in, a 100kms or so,"
long story, TBC
When the magnets are energised they drag on the drum. Because they are not a tight fit on the yoke, they tilt slightly when dragged by the drum, which wears them more on the leading edge. Swapping them for the other side will make them very ill matched to the drum and they may not grab correctly, this having been done, I would expect that a very much longer bedding in would be required. I don't think that swapping them was a good idea personally.
Having said that, it still may be an electrical problem. If you operate the manual slide on the controller, you should be able to hear the magnets growl, or you can jack up the wheel and see if you can lock tne wheel with the manual control.
That makes sense, re manual slide etc, I'll chat to a neighbour re magnets etc for a helping hand. Thank you.
Gerty Dancer said
08:34 PM Mar 13, 2014
Mary Jane, I just read this thread in horror, as you are expected to tow downhill without effective brakes to get a proper repair done.... Are you a member of RACQ NRMA or similar? Could you try calling them since its not safe to tow your van???
MaryJane said
08:54 PM Mar 13, 2014
Gerty Dancer wrote:
Mary Jane, I just read this thread in horror, as you are expected to tow downhill without effective brakes to get a proper repair done.... Are you a member of RACQ NRMA or similar? Could you try calling them since its not safe to tow your van???
I love your response! I feel human! I have posted on here and spoken to all my male mates and they said "take the van back, you drove trucks, you can do it easy".
men!!!
in the interim, I have emailed the service company for advice..... But I didn't think of RACV.
Thanks for that suggestion,
MJ
Baz421 said
10:04 PM Mar 13, 2014
MaryJane wrote:
Gerty Dancer wrote:
Mary Jane, I just read this thread in horror, as you are expected to tow downhill without effective brakes to get a proper repair done.... Are you a member of RACQ NRMA or similar? Could you try calling them since its not safe to tow your van???
I love your response! I feel human! I have posted on here and spoken to all my male mates and they said "take the van back, you drove trucks, you can do it easy".
men!!!
in the interim, I have emailed the service company for advice..... But I didn't think of RACV.
Thanks for that suggestion,
MJ
I think you will find that the RACV won't attend unless it is a breakdown, but sometimes there are special provisions in memebership if vehicle (van) is not driveable, ie they may put it on a tilt tray/flatbed and take it to be repaired.
Men??? Well some of us are useful/house trained etc,,, lol
patrolst said
08:37 AM Mar 14, 2014
Brake drum magnets if removed replaced on the same location or replaced with new, they should never be rotated like wheels/tyres.
the idea of magnets bedding in is that the new magnet surface can meet the drum and mate properly if the drums surface has scoring and or grooving they should be machined or replaced, some brake repairers can only re-surface the lining surface but not the magnet surface.
If they have rotated the magnets I would be sceptical of the rest of the service.
MaryJane said
11:25 AM Mar 14, 2014
Thanks again for responses. They are coming out next week to hopefully solve the problem in my driveway!
MJ
MaryJane said
06:19 PM Mar 19, 2014
Further to all of this, I sat and stared at the van in dread. The service manager was due to visit today. Yesterday I hitched up the van, chucked it in 4wd, to get down the driveway, then hit some quiet local roads. Oh, and let my local CFA mate know! just incase I got stuck :)
Then I rang the manager this morning and said " I'm bringing it to you" . He kinda freaked!
Long story short, I found that the breaks did seem to 'bed in'. So much so that I went from highest boost setting to virtually zilch in 5 minutes. But I still took it back to the service place. The manager went into great detail how it all works and why. I had no clue about the voltage on the brakes! He spent ages showing me, we went for a drive.
Long story short, the brakes are now better than before the service.
Apparently it's not uncommon for this to happen. I would suggest anyone check the manual brake immediately after a service, as I should have, so you don't have to go through the stress that I put myself through.
But a happy ending.
So I had my brakes and bearing service on a dual axle Jayco. Bearings were replaced.
Whenever I hitch up I check the electric brakes. However, after the service I didn't, it was now rush hour and I had to get through the Melbourne suburbs fun times, I just forgot.
It didn't take long to notice that braking was different, like not happening, I felt the car (prado) was doing all the work. I kept playing with the brake control in the car, but suburbia and rush hour weren't really conducive to experiments. But I did boost the settings when stopped at lights and tried the in car brake when almost stopped etc. Little joy, it helped, but no where near as good as prior to the service.
So my question is, can a service affect this? Has anyone experienced this? Is it just a time / bedding in thing?
other than the bearings, only the magnets were swapped over.
I live on a steep block, I have 5kms of downhill mountain to contend with before I hit the main roads and I want to go away next week, the final destination being 17km of downhill dirt road!!! I'm a bit anxious.
And the RV place I got it serviced at aren't answering the phone to answer my questions ;) ........
any feed back welcome
thanks,
MJ
-- Edited by MaryJane on Thursday 13th of March 2014 04:11:32 PM
There would be no bedding in required.
If the magnets were replaced, then it is possible that the electrical connections have not been correctly done.
Best bet would be to take it back and watch while they fix it and prove that point to you.
If the shoes weren't replaced, then we would assume that they didn't dissassemble the brakes, so that should rule out incorrect assembly.
I am assuming that you don't know how to adjust and test the electrics yourself.
you say the magnets were swapped over. do you mean new magnets were fitted?
were the brake drums machined?
there are a few different things to consider
new magnets need "bedding in"
brakes were not correctly adjusted after refitting the drums
magnets not connected properly.
I would be taking it straight back and demand they fix the brakes as a safety issue.
frank
Hi Brian,
thanks for ur response .
no I have no idea how to adjust and test electrics, I rely on a trusty rv place to do it, that is why I pay them.
The magnets were not replaced, merely swapped over to counteract the wear and tear On each side.
I did eventually get hold of the service company, who I believe are very good.... Response was " need bedding in, a 100kms or so,"
long story, TBC
Hi Frank,
no, new magnets weren't fitted. I was told the current wear on each side was okay to swap them over and I'll be good for ages.
perhaps the magnets still need bedding in.
i have since got hold of service folk and told I need to bed in for at least a 100kms. But this was second hand from service to receptionist.
In the interim, I have also spoken to a mate that works for a huge trucking company... Same response as you. Take it back for safety's sake.
just have to get it there down a huge incline......
thanks for response, I shall call service place again before I move.
cheers,
MJ
1) Adjust brakes so that the wheel turns freely for one revolution.
2) When the brakes have been adjusted so that the wheel is locked, back off the adjustment 13 clicks.
When we took delivery of our van, I adjusted the brakes as per (1). The van braked well and had plenty of adjustment on the controller. After having our van serviced, they adjusted the brakes as per (2). After 3000 kms, I have no brakes to speak of and the controller is adjusted to maximum.
I also think out controller is a cheap variety, so maybe method (2) works fine for a more up-market controller.
Any educated comments most welcome.
Larry
OMG Mary Jane I don't believe what they told you. They expect you to drive 100km either WITHOUT BRAKES OR POORLY PERFORMING BRAKES.
This is not good enough. I suggest you ring them first thing tomorrow and tell them this (i'll PM you my mobile and do it for you if you need to) and tell them to fix it,, NO MATTER WHAT THE PROBLEM NOW IS,,,,, where it is currently located or you will report this to consumer affairs OR other relevant organisation in your state.
Other info on here is also misleading so the moral of this story is "if you don't know what you are doing,,, DON'T DO IT --- ESPECIALLY BRAKES".
I really feel fo you Mary Jane as it can be real hastle in cases such as this.
Cheers Baz
When the magnets are energised they drag on the drum. Because they are not a tight fit on the yoke, they tilt slightly when dragged by the drum, which wears them more on the leading edge. Swapping them for the other side will make them very ill matched to the drum and they may not grab correctly, this having been done, I would expect that a very much longer bedding in would be required. I don't think that swapping them was a good idea personally.
Having said that, it still may be an electrical problem. If you operate the manual slide on the controller, you should be able to hear the magnets growl, or you can jack up the wheel and see if you can lock tne wheel with the manual control.
That makes sense, re manual slide etc, I'll chat to a neighbour re magnets etc for a helping hand. Thank you.
I love your response! I feel human! I have posted on here and spoken to all my male mates and they said "take the van back, you drove trucks, you can do it easy".
men!!!
in the interim, I have emailed the service company for advice..... But I didn't think of RACV.
Thanks for that suggestion,
MJ
I think you will find that the RACV won't attend unless it is a breakdown, but sometimes there are special provisions in memebership if vehicle (van) is not driveable, ie they may put it on a tilt tray/flatbed and take it to be repaired.
Men??? Well some of us are useful/house trained etc,,,
lol
Brake drum magnets if removed replaced on the same location or replaced with new, they should never be rotated like wheels/tyres.
the idea of magnets bedding in is that the new magnet surface can meet the drum and mate properly if the drums surface has scoring and or grooving they should be machined or replaced, some brake repairers can only re-surface the lining surface but not the magnet surface.
If they have rotated the magnets I would be sceptical of the rest of the service.
MJ
Then I rang the manager this morning and said " I'm bringing it to you" . He kinda freaked!
Long story short, I found that the breaks did seem to 'bed in'. So much so that I went from highest boost setting to virtually zilch in 5 minutes. But I still took it back to the service place. The manager went into great detail how it all works and why. I had no clue about the voltage on the brakes! He spent ages showing me, we went for a drive.
Long story short, the brakes are now better than before the service.
Apparently it's not uncommon for this to happen. I would suggest anyone check the manual brake immediately after a service, as I should have, so you don't have to go through the stress that I put myself through.
But a happy ending.