My tow vehicle is fitted with air bag suspension and the caravan we are buying will be fitted with Al-Ko ESC. Can members advise whether we will need a WDH as well.
Many thanks
David.
PJK said
05:11 PM Feb 22, 2014
David, what type of vehicle is your tug?? Air bags have been blamed for a lot of the cracked chassis' on the later model utes.
Not familiar with the Al-Ko, so cannot comment on the WDH.
Peter
-- Edited by PJK on Saturday 22nd of February 2014 05:12:15 PM
PeterD said
05:35 PM Feb 22, 2014
If you don't fit WDH then the weight imposed on your rear axle will be 40 - 60% more than the ball weight or your van alone. You will have to make allowance for that or you will possibly overload your rear axle. The following demo of the effects of coupling your van with and without WDH shows the effect.
Alko ESC has absolutely nothing to do with a WDH. The ESC controls sway or over sway by applying a brake, left or right depending on the swing to control the van. WDH spreads the load of the vehicle off the tow ball to all over the tug thus getting the van to ride level.
Amazing the number of vans you see that are nose down, ass up and the tug with the back nearly touching the ground.
This leaves the subject of mirrors, or those who tow without adequate vision down the side of their vehicle, to another time.
Bob
deverall11 said
11:37 AM Feb 23, 2014
Davemate, it's a no brainer. There are countless posts regarding this subject in many forums. No matter what anyone tells you, the ONLY safe way to tow a reasonably sized caravan is with WDH.
As Bob said, ESC has nothing to do with WDH. We have air bags also and would not tow without WDH.
Regards,
Larry
Plendo said
12:03 PM Feb 23, 2014
Dave you do not mention the type of vehicle you plan to tow with. If it is conventional suspension with the assistance of air bags, I would be using a WDH, and using it to allow you to reduce the pressure in the air bags. Air bags especially ones with high pressure are often the cause of chassis cracking and bending.
If however your vehicle is native with air bags (example Land Rover), then I would be following the recommendation of the manufacturer. Again using Land Rover as an example the manufacturer recommends that you do not use a WDH.
Davemate said
05:39 PM Feb 24, 2014
Hi Plendo,
I have a Kia Sorento turbo diesel which has conventional suspension assisted by air bags. I will follow advice given and go with the WDH.
Thanks everyone for your input.
Cheers,
David.
ShortNorth said
10:30 PM Feb 24, 2014
Some camper owners fit a Weight Distribution Hitch between the tow car and the camper. A number of other campers have suggested to me that it may be advisable to fit a WDH to my tow car / camper setup, a KIA Cerato towing an Avan Aliner. Accordingly, I contacted KIA Australia to confirm if this was approved - here is their reply :
"Thank you for contacting Kia Motors Australia.
Kia does NOT recommend the use of load leveling devices on ANY Kia vehicle fitted with a genuine Kia accessory tow bar, any damage caused to the vehicle or tow bar with the use of load leveling devices will not be covered under the vehicles warranty. Kia Motors Australia does not sell load leveling devices as an approved genuine accessory.
Under no circumstances should load leveling devices be used on ANY vehicle equipped with electronic stability control (ESP)."
Now that is a far reaching statement !!!
Notice that although the Kia Sportage and Sorrento are popular small RV tow vehicles, KIA does not even approve of using WDH's with those vehicles.
If there are any existing Kia owners out there towing their Aliners (or other camper trailers or caravans) with WDH's, they should cease using the WDH immediately.
More important, is the statement about using WDH's with ANY vehicles fitted with ESC. As most recent and current vehicles are fitted with ESC, and as the ADR's change, tending towards making ESC standard on all future vehicles sold in Australia, it will sound the 'death knell' for WDH's.The problem is, the vehicle's Electronic Stability Control is a finely tuned computer setup based on the STANDARD running gear configuration of that vehicle - if you add WDH's to an ESP equipped vehicle you are likely to totally throw out the ESP balance with the likelihood of CAUSING an accident rather than avoiding one !
If you have any tow vehicle, of any brand, fitted with ESC and using a WDH, you should cease using the WDH immediately.
If in any doubt, ask your vehicle manufacturer if a WDH is approved for your vehicle, and if not, to cease using it immediately.
If you are involved in an accident with WDH's attached, and they have not been approved by your vehicle manufacturer, the insurance company will void your insurance immediately, as the system is not in accordance with the manufacturer's recommendations - possibly leaving you open to substantial financial penalties and associated stress.
Food for thought - what do you reckon !!
Regards, Brian
PeterD said
12:39 AM Feb 25, 2014
ShortNorth wrote:If you have any tow vehicle, of any brand, fitted with ESC and using a WDH, you should cease using the WDH immediately.
If in any doubt, ask your vehicle manufacturer if a WDH is approved for your vehicle, and if not, to cease using it immediately.
That does not apply to all vehicles with ESC. Jeep require it with heavy trailers.
johnno48 said
03:47 PM Feb 25, 2014
Hi guys
does a CA 4 rod equaliser come under the same classification as a WDH
My tug is a 2012 Nissan D40 towing a 18ft 6" tandem Millard & I fitted Alkos ESC to van
Thanks Greg
ozjohn said
04:58 PM Feb 25, 2014
johnno48 wrote:
Hi guys does a CA 4 rod equaliser come under the same classification as a WDH My tug is a 2012 Nissan D40 towing a 18ft 6" tandem Millard & I fitted Alkos ESC to van Thanks Greg
Greg, Yes it is a WDH and so are the single round bar level rides, although they're very light versions. Ozjohn
Wow they are sweeping statements ShortNorth, to say that WDH should not be used with any ESP equipped vehicle is perhaps a bit to far, as some manufacturers actually recommend the use of weight distribution hitches, and indeed I believe some still sell them under their own brand.
It is true however to say that using a WDH where the manufacturer has specifically said not to use them could be construed as using the vehicle not as intended and may affect the insurance status.
I believe the safest course of action is to refer to the manufacturer, either find evidence in their publications (read owners manual), or write to them and get there reply in some written form. I believe an email would be sufficient.
For me it is clear, Manufacturer says no, so no it is.
I am considering adding a bar on the front however just to improve the balance. (manufacturers bar of course).
Hydeeeho said
06:20 PM Feb 26, 2014
If not familar with Alko ESC please don't offer your uninformed comments
-- Edited by Hydeeeho on Wednesday 26th of February 2014 06:22:01 PM
ozjohn said
02:02 PM Feb 27, 2014
Greg (Johnno48) Thanks for the heads up. Ozjohn.
From Alko Website:
Question: Are weight distribution bars still required if i have AL-KO ESC installed?
Answer: AL-KO ESC is an additional safety system and does not replace the need for the caravan to be setup correctly. The caravan must always be loaded correctly with the recommended ball weight and weight distribution bars fitted if required.
Rip and Rosie said
04:41 PM Feb 27, 2014
In my book, according to what I have researched- and we did heaps of research when buying the new tug- if the vehicle can't take a WDH, then it can't safely tow.
Now before you shoot me.............the manufacterers put their prohibition on in order to prevent chassis damage, so if the chassis is not built to withstand the forces placed upon it by towing, its not able to do the job, because its a given- WDH is essential for safe towing.
For this reason, we crossed off any vehicle whose maker does not recommend the use of a WDH.
Some vehicles are not tow vehicles.
Plendo said
07:54 PM Feb 27, 2014
A rosie maybe you jumped to teh wrong conclusion in some cases. Some vehicles are designed as tow vehicles, and as such just don't need the help that some less suited tow vehicles need.
Rip and Rosie said
07:56 PM Feb 27, 2014
Plendo wrote:
A rosie maybe you jumped to teh wrong conclusion in some cases. Some vehicles are designed as tow vehicles, and as such just don't need the help that some less suited tow vehicles need.
Yeah?................ how so?
Plendo said
08:01 PM Feb 27, 2014
Have a look at the tow review on page 120 of the February Caravan World for an extreme example.
All Land Rover Discoveries have self leveling suspension, and do not use WDH. And before you tell me they are too expensive they are cheaper, and use a lot less fuel than the equivalent Toyota.
Tim thetruckie said
09:14 PM Feb 27, 2014
Plendo wrote:
Have a look at the tow review on page 120 of the February Caravan World for an extreme example.
All Land Rover Discoveries have self leveling suspension, and do not use WDH. And before you tell me they are too expensive they are cheaper, and use a lot less fuel than the equivalent Toyota.
All ??????
Good reason why Disco's use less fuel .
Plendo said
09:26 PM Feb 27, 2014
Sorry Tim, you are of course correct.
I should have said "Almost all Land Rover Discoveries sold since 2005" as before then they were largely coil sprung, and up to 2009 a small number of Discovery 3s were sold with coil springs. In my defence the majority of 3s and I believe all 4s are on air suspension.
My tow vehicle is fitted with air bag suspension and the caravan we are buying will be fitted with Al-Ko ESC. Can members advise whether we will need a WDH as well.
Many thanks
David.
David, what type of vehicle is your tug??
Air bags have been blamed for a lot of the cracked chassis' on the later model utes.
Not familiar with the Al-Ko, so cannot comment on the WDH.
Peter
-- Edited by PJK on Saturday 22nd of February 2014 05:12:15 PM
If you don't fit WDH then the weight imposed on your rear axle will be 40 - 60% more than the ball weight or your van alone. You will have to make allowance for that or you will possibly overload your rear axle. The following demo of the effects of coupling your van with and without WDH shows the effect.
Amazing the number of vans you see that are nose down, ass up and the tug with the back nearly touching the ground.
This leaves the subject of mirrors, or those who tow without adequate vision down the side of their vehicle, to another time.
Bob
As Bob said, ESC has nothing to do with WDH. We have air bags also and would not tow without WDH.
Regards,
Larry
Dave you do not mention the type of vehicle you plan to tow with. If it is conventional suspension with the assistance of air bags, I would be using a WDH, and using it to allow you to reduce the pressure in the air bags. Air bags especially ones with high pressure are often the cause of chassis cracking and bending.
If however your vehicle is native with air bags (example Land Rover), then I would be following the recommendation of the manufacturer. Again using Land Rover as an example the manufacturer recommends that you do not use a WDH.
Hi Plendo,
I have a Kia Sorento turbo diesel which has conventional suspension assisted by air bags. I will follow advice given and go with the WDH.
Thanks everyone for your input.
Cheers,
David.
Some camper owners fit a Weight Distribution Hitch between the tow car and the camper. A number of other campers have suggested to me that it may be advisable to fit a WDH to my tow car / camper setup, a KIA Cerato towing an Avan Aliner. Accordingly, I contacted KIA Australia to confirm if this was approved - here is their reply :
"Thank you for contacting Kia Motors Australia.
Kia does NOT recommend the use of load leveling devices on ANY Kia vehicle fitted with a genuine Kia accessory tow bar, any damage caused to the vehicle or tow bar with the use of load leveling devices will not be covered under the vehicles warranty. Kia Motors Australia does not sell load leveling devices as an approved genuine accessory.
Under no circumstances should load leveling devices be used on ANY vehicle equipped with electronic stability control (ESP)."
Now that is a far reaching statement !!!
Notice that although the Kia Sportage and Sorrento are popular small RV tow vehicles, KIA does not even approve of using WDH's with those vehicles.
If there are any existing Kia owners out there towing their Aliners (or other camper trailers or caravans) with WDH's, they should cease using the WDH immediately.
More important, is the statement about using WDH's with ANY vehicles fitted with ESC. As most recent and current vehicles are fitted with ESC, and as the ADR's change, tending towards making ESC standard on all future vehicles sold in Australia, it will sound the 'death knell' for WDH's.The problem is, the vehicle's Electronic Stability Control is a finely tuned computer setup based on the STANDARD running gear configuration of that vehicle - if you add WDH's to an ESP equipped vehicle you are likely to totally throw out the ESP balance with the likelihood of CAUSING an accident rather than avoiding one !
If you have any tow vehicle, of any brand, fitted with ESC and using a WDH, you should cease using the WDH immediately.
If in any doubt, ask your vehicle manufacturer if a WDH is approved for your vehicle, and if not, to cease using it immediately.
If you are involved in an accident with WDH's attached, and they have not been approved by your vehicle manufacturer, the insurance company will void your insurance immediately, as the system is not in accordance with the manufacturer's recommendations - possibly leaving you open to substantial financial penalties and associated stress.
Food for thought - what do you reckon !!
Regards, Brian
That does not apply to all vehicles with ESC. Jeep require it with heavy trailers.
does a CA 4 rod equaliser come under the same classification as a WDH
My tug is a 2012 Nissan D40 towing a 18ft 6" tandem Millard & I fitted Alkos ESC to van
Thanks Greg
Greg,
Yes it is a WDH and so are the single round bar level rides, although they're very light versions.
Ozjohn
Hi ozjohn I thought you may find this faq on the Alko site of interest
Cheers mate
Greg
www.alkoesc.com.au/escfaq.html
Wow they are sweeping statements ShortNorth, to say that WDH should not be used with any ESP equipped vehicle is perhaps a bit to far, as some manufacturers actually recommend the use of weight distribution hitches, and indeed I believe some still sell them under their own brand.
It is true however to say that using a WDH where the manufacturer has specifically said not to use them could be construed as using the vehicle not as intended and may affect the insurance status.
I believe the safest course of action is to refer to the manufacturer, either find evidence in their publications (read owners manual), or write to them and get there reply in some written form. I believe an email would be sufficient.
For me it is clear, Manufacturer says no, so no it is.
I am considering adding a bar on the front however just to improve the balance. (manufacturers bar of course).
If not familar with Alko ESC please don't offer your uninformed comments
-- Edited by Hydeeeho on Wednesday 26th of February 2014 06:22:01 PM
Greg (Johnno48) Thanks for the heads up.
Ozjohn.
From Alko Website:
Question:
Are weight distribution bars still required if i have AL-KO ESC installed?
Answer:
AL-KO ESC is an additional safety system and does not replace the need for the caravan to be setup correctly.
The caravan must always be loaded correctly with the recommended ball weight and weight distribution bars fitted if required.
Now before you shoot me.............the manufacterers put their prohibition on in order to prevent chassis damage, so if the chassis is not built to withstand the forces placed upon it by towing, its not able to do the job, because its a given- WDH is essential for safe towing.
For this reason, we crossed off any vehicle whose maker does not recommend the use of a WDH.
Some vehicles are not tow vehicles.
A rosie maybe you jumped to teh wrong conclusion in some cases. Some vehicles are designed as tow vehicles, and as such just don't need the help that some less suited tow vehicles need.
Yeah?................ how so?
Have a look at the tow review on page 120 of the February Caravan World for an extreme example.
All Land Rover Discoveries have self leveling suspension, and do not use WDH. And before you tell me they are too expensive they are cheaper, and use a lot less fuel than the equivalent Toyota.
All ??????
Good reason why Disco's use less fuel .
Sorry Tim, you are of course correct.
I should have said "Almost all Land Rover Discoveries sold since 2005" as before then they were largely coil sprung, and up to 2009 a small number of Discovery 3s were sold with coil springs. In my defence the majority of 3s and I believe all 4s are on air suspension.