i have a Jayco 2009 caravan, fitted with copper lines etc for the gas bottles. I previously had no problems changing bottles over, until recently. While looking at different set ups, I noticed that many caravans (different models) come with flexi hose connections.
Soooooo, I would like to ask the following:
Has anyone changed over from copper to flexi hose? If yes, why?
why would copper be Jayco's preferred choice?
Do I need a licensed gas plumber to sign off on this (I rang my rv fixer place and they said yes and now I'm looking at at least $200 for the changeover. But I have a neighbour who is a plumber)
I assume that Jayco use them because they are cheaper to make themselves without the need for a swaging press.
Those copper pipes, especially with the anti-vibration loops, should serve you well.
Why would you want to change them?
oldbobsbus said
03:06 PM Feb 14, 2014
That style of pigtail should last you many years but when it comes time to change them I would replace them with woven flex pigtails with the yellow tracer and you should be able to get the place you buy them from to change them over for you or recommend a licenced LPGas fitter to do it for you.. the hoses themselves aren't cheap but I would have thought $200 just a little high..
Maybe if your plumber mate can't do it for you he may be able to get a licenced fitter to do it for you..
Ohhhh and you may need to get your mate to buy the hoses for you as most Plumbers supply places will only sell LPGas fittings to licence holders I know thats the case with Tradelink..
hako said
03:06 PM Feb 14, 2014
I'm with Brian - why change them. I've had to replace my flexible ones on a 6 year old van.
oldtrack123 said
03:25 PM Feb 14, 2014
Hi The latest gas Standards call for a copper pipe connection between bottle & regulator PLUS The regulator SHALL BE two stage & mounted above the bottle outlet YES it does require a licensed GAS fitter to do the job & recertify it. Older non complying vans will be required to be updated before sale or Reregistering [lapsed rego]
Depending on how the bottle is housed ,that can be a real B^**er PeterQ
-- Edited by oldtrack123 on Friday 14th of February 2014 03:27:21 PM
oldbobsbus said
03:36 PM Feb 14, 2014
oldtrack123 wrote:
Hi The latest gas Standards call for a copper pipe connection between bottle & regulator PLUS The regulator SHALL BE two stage & mounted above the bottle outlet YES it does require a licensed GAS fitter to do the job & recertify it. Older non complying vans will be required to be updated before sale or Reregistering [lapsed rego]
Depending on how the bottle is housed ,that can be a real B^**er PeterQ
-- Edited by oldtrack123 on Friday 14th of February 2014 03:27:21 PM
Best you find the item No. in as5601-2013 that prohibits the use of certified flexible pigtail hoses on caravans and put it here Peter.....
I believe you statement to be incorrect and I thing you are scaremongering..
Old Crofter said
03:41 PM Feb 14, 2014
flexible replacement hoses are available in caravan assesory stores, "coast to coast" at least and are available across the counter. they are screw in as the old copper ones are screw out. I changed mine over and checked for any leaks , just like someone chargeing $85 a hour would do.
every one to their own I say.
Bob
oldbobsbus said
03:53 PM Feb 14, 2014
Old Crofter wrote:
flexible replacement hoses are available in caravan assesory stores, "coast to coast" at least and are available across the counter. they are screw in as the old copper ones are screw out. I changed mine over and checked for any leaks , just like someone chargeing $85 a hour would do.
every one to their own I say.
Bob
deverall11 said
03:57 PM Feb 14, 2014
Unless this issue has been addressed flexible hoses have an inherent problem.
This is the problem and it is a finger pointing exercise.
After having lost our CAMEC gas regulator on a relatively new van, I had the opportunity to talk to a CAMEC person who did not mind spiling the beans. CAMEC have had an unusual number of gas regulators returned due to failure. One day one of the guys decided to pull one of them apart in order to find out why all these regulators were failing. The person found the regulator was clogged with this black dust. This dust was actually the rubber component inside the braided line.
This where the finger pointing is:
CAMEC claims (unofficially) that a chemical that is added to the gas (it could be the smelling agent) is causing the rubber to shed.
The gas people claim it is a low quality gas line.
WE are the meat in the sandwich.
I also has a flexi gas line fail (leak) for no reason at all. I suspect the wind turbulence and the bumps as you are travelling.
On our next caravan, I will certainly be specifying copper pig tails for gas lines.
As usual I stand corrected.
Larry
spida said
04:25 PM Feb 14, 2014
Oh DARN - I changed to flexi lines when I had to change the direction tap thing - only because it is easier to attach them to the bottles than the copper ones. Then eventually threw the copper away - should have kept them maybe!
KevKim37 said
04:25 PM Feb 14, 2014
I have had the S/Steel Braided Flexible hoses on our 2003 Boroma from new and have never had problems with the hoses or regulator. We live in our van and have been for 11 years, so have used numerous bottles of gas including 15 months in Tassie where we used about 37 bottles with using the Truma Gas Heater and cooking purposes.
Maybe the problem could be caused by where the LP bottles are fitted as ours are in the Front Boot Compartment and Not in Direct sunlight which could cause the Braided Hoses to get too much heat and degrade the internal rubber compounds of the hoses.??!.
I have recently fitted a set of two hoses at a cost of $44 (Kyabram Camp Store) to a mates van as he was sick and tired of aligning the Copper Pipes/POL fittings as his hands aren't what they used to be, he is rapped with the easier fitting of the new hoses to the bottles.
Cheers Kev.
MaryJane said
04:47 PM Feb 14, 2014
Thank you all for your feed back. Based on comments and gaining some knowledge, I rang Jayco in Sydney and Melbourne, probably I could have figured that one earlier, but earlier I wasn't entirely sure what I was talking about. So thanks for the feedback.
Anyway. It seems they used to use flexi but moved to copper due to time causing flexi to build with " a rubber substance", quote and hence block the regulator. Another quote was that gas build up damaged the regulator due to dust etc.
Either which way, it seems copper is the go, I just need to drop it by Jayco and maybe get them to see what is causing the probs with the changeover ie struggling to undo the bottles, which never used to ba a problem.
And they also stated, it takes several years or more for flexi hose to disintegrate to a point internally that it will block the regulator.
Thanks again, I will carry on making my veggie soup. Much safer.
MaryJane said
04:49 PM Feb 14, 2014
KevKim37 wrote:
I have had the S/Steel Braided Flexible hoses on our 2003 Boroma from new and have never had problems with the hoses or regulator. We live in our van and have been for 11 years, so have used numerous bottles of gas including 15 months in Tassie where we used about 37 bottles with using the Truma Gas Heater and cooking purposes.
Maybe the problem could be caused by where the LP bottles are fitted as ours are in the Front Boot Compartment and Not in Direct sunlight which could cause the Braided Hoses to get too much heat and degrade the internal rubber compounds of the hoses.??!.
I have recently fitted a set of two hoses at a cost of $44 (Kyabram Camp Store) to a mates van as he was sick and tired of aligning the Copper Pipes/POL fittings as his hands aren't what they used to be, he is rapped with the easier fitting of the new hoses to the bottles.
Cheers Kev.
I agree Kev, aligning has become an issue, when it didn't used to be
native pepper said
04:50 PM Feb 14, 2014
We change over to s/s flexible gas hoses when we got our current bus, over the years we found copper pipes tend to come loose if you go off road and wear rapidly under lots of vibration.
Now we put the flexible hoses inside black poly pipe and seal the ends with silicone, this way nothing gets to the hoses to wear them out. If there are any problems, you just remove the silicone and pull out the hose. Been like that for more than 3 years and never had a problem. Changed the copper gas pipes in our houses and motorsailer to flexible hoses. No need for a plumber, nothing for them to do. Just make sure you use the proper gas tape for connections and no more problems or gas leaks.
-- Edited by native pepper on Friday 14th of February 2014 04:52:09 PM
MaryJane said
04:51 PM Feb 14, 2014
deverall11 wrote:
Unless this issue has been addressed flexible hoses have an inherent problem. This is the problem and it is a finger pointing exercise. After having lost our CAMEC gas regulator on a relatively new van, I had the opportunity to talk to a CAMEC person who did not mind spiling the beans. CAMEC have had an unusual number of gas regulators returned due to failure. One day one of the guys decided to pull one of them apart in order to find out why all these regulators were failing. The person found the regulator was clogged with this black dust. This dust was actually the rubber component inside the braided line. This where the finger pointing is: CAMEC claims (unofficially) that a chemical that is added to the gas (it could be the smelling agent) is causing the rubber to shed. The gas people claim it is a low quality gas line. WE are the meat in the sandwich. I also has a flexi gas line fail (leak) for no reason at all. I suspect the wind turbulence and the bumps as you are travelling. On our next caravan, I will certainly be specifying copper pig tails for gas lines. As usual I stand corrected. Larry
Thanks Larry, ur comment is pretty much what Jayco said, as per my later post below
oldbobsbus said
04:58 PM Feb 14, 2014
native pepper wrote:
We change over to s/s flexible gas hoses when we got our current bus, over the years we found copper pipes tend to come loose if you go off road and wear rapidly under lots of vibration.
Now we put the flexible hoses inside block poly pipe and seal the ends with silicone, this way nothing gets to the hoses to wear them out. If there are any problems, you just remove the silicone and pull out the hose. Been like that for more than 3 years and never had a problem. Changed the copper gas pipes in our houses and motorsailer to flexible hoses.No need for a plumber, nothing for them to do. Just make sure you use the proper gas tape for connections and no more problems or gas leaks.
The exact reason you need a LICENCED LPGas plumber to do the job, both ends of a primary hose have tapered fittings and need to be installed correctly..
And when you have a leak you will want to blame the fitting and not the incorrect way it was installed
native pepper said
05:00 PM Feb 14, 2014
deverall11 wrote:
Unless this issue has been addressed flexible hoses have an inherent problem. This is the problem and it is a finger pointing exercise. After having lost our CAMEC gas regulator on a relatively new van, I had the opportunity to talk to a CAMEC person who did not mind spiling the beans. CAMEC have had an unusual number of gas regulators returned due to failure. One day one of the guys decided to pull one of them apart in order to find out why all these regulators were failing. The person found the regulator was clogged with this black dust. This dust was actually the rubber component inside the braided line. This where the finger pointing is: CAMEC claims (unofficially) that a chemical that is added to the gas (it could be the smelling agent) is causing the rubber to shed. The gas people claim it is a low quality gas line. WE are the meat in the sandwich. I also has a flexi gas line fail (leak) for no reason at all. I suspect the wind turbulence and the bumps as you are travelling. On our next caravan, I will certainly be specifying copper pig tails for gas lines. As usual I stand corrected. Larry
Don't quite understand what you are referring to, what regulator you are talking about. If it is the gas bottle regulator, then how does anything get into it, other than from the gas bottle. Flexible hoses connect to the outlet of the regulator, not the inlet. From what I know it is illegal to have unregulated gas in low pressure lines, which are what the line are from the regulator. So what regulator are you talking about.
oldbobsbus said
05:10 PM Feb 14, 2014
native pepper wrote:
deverall11 wrote:
Unless this issue has been addressed flexible hoses have an inherent problem. This is the problem and it is a finger pointing exercise. After having lost our CAMEC gas regulator on a relatively new van, I had the opportunity to talk to a CAMEC person who did not mind spiling the beans. CAMEC have had an unusual number of gas regulators returned due to failure. One day one of the guys decided to pull one of them apart in order to find out why all these regulators were failing. The person found the regulator was clogged with this black dust. This dust was actually the rubber component inside the braided line. This where the finger pointing is: CAMEC claims (unofficially) that a chemical that is added to the gas (it could be the smelling agent) is causing the rubber to shed. The gas people claim it is a low quality gas line. WE are the meat in the sandwich. I also has a flexi gas line fail (leak) for no reason at all. I suspect the wind turbulence and the bumps as you are travelling. On our next caravan, I will certainly be specifying copper pig tails for gas lines. As usual I stand corrected. Larry
Don't quite understand what you are referring to, what regulator you are talking about. If it is the gas bottle regulator, then how does anything get into it, other than from the gas bottle. Flexible hoses connect to the outlet of the regulator, not the inlet. From what I know it is illegal to have unregulated gas in low pressure lines, which are what the line are from the regulator. So what regulator are you talking about.
You should stick to open source operating systems and leave Gas work to those that are qualified to do it before you blow yourself up and maybe others around you at the time ...
dorian said
05:27 PM Feb 14, 2014
oldbobsbus wrote:
native pepper wrote:
deverall11 wrote:
Unless this issue has been addressed flexible hoses have an inherent problem. This is the problem and it is a finger pointing exercise. After having lost our CAMEC gas regulator on a relatively new van, I had the opportunity to talk to a CAMEC person who did not mind spiling the beans. CAMEC have had an unusual number of gas regulators returned due to failure. One day one of the guys decided to pull one of them apart in order to find out why all these regulators were failing. The person found the regulator was clogged with this black dust. This dust was actually the rubber component inside the braided line. This where the finger pointing is: CAMEC claims (unofficially) that a chemical that is added to the gas (it could be the smelling agent) is causing the rubber to shed. The gas people claim it is a low quality gas line. WE are the meat in the sandwich. I also has a flexi gas line fail (leak) for no reason at all. I suspect the wind turbulence and the bumps as you are travelling. On our next caravan, I will certainly be specifying copper pig tails for gas lines. As usual I stand corrected. Larry
Don't quite understand what you are referring to, what regulator you are talking about. If it is the gas bottle regulator, then how does anything get into it, other than from the gas bottle. Flexible hoses connect to the outlet of the regulator, not the inlet. From what I know it is illegal to have unregulated gas in low pressure lines, which are what the line are from the regulator. So what regulator are you talking about.
You should stick to open source operating systems and leave Gas work to those that are qualified to do it before you blow yourself up and maybe others around you at the time ...
Could a "qualified" person please answer native pepper's question? As an unqualified observer, I'm finding it difficult to comprehend how rubber debris can travel against the direction of gas pressure and against the pull of gravity.
oldbobsbus said
05:38 PM Feb 14, 2014
dorian wrote:
oldbobsbus wrote:
native pepper wrote:
deverall11 wrote:
Unless this issue has been addressed flexible hoses have an inherent problem. This is the problem and it is a finger pointing exercise. After having lost our CAMEC gas regulator on a relatively new van, I had the opportunity to talk to a CAMEC person who did not mind spiling the beans. CAMEC have had an unusual number of gas regulators returned due to failure. One day one of the guys decided to pull one of them apart in order to find out why all these regulators were failing. The person found the regulator was clogged with this black dust. This dust was actually the rubber component inside the braided line. This where the finger pointing is: CAMEC claims (unofficially) that a chemical that is added to the gas (it could be the smelling agent) is causing the rubber to shed. The gas people claim it is a low quality gas line. WE are the meat in the sandwich. I also has a flexi gas line fail (leak) for no reason at all. I suspect the wind turbulence and the bumps as you are travelling. On our next caravan, I will certainly be specifying copper pig tails for gas lines. As usual I stand corrected. Larry
Don't quite understand what you are referring to, what regulator you are talking about. If it is the gas bottle regulator, then how does anything get into it, other than from the gas bottle. Flexible hoses connect to the outlet of the regulator, not the inlet. From what I know it is illegal to have unregulated gas in low pressure lines, which are what the line are from the regulator. So what regulator are you talking about.
You should stick to open source operating systems and leave Gas work to those that are qualified to do it before you blow yourself up and maybe others around you at the time ...
Could a "qualified" person please answer native pepper's question? As an unqualified observer, I'm finding it difficult to comprehend how rubber debris can travel against the direction of gas pressure and against the pull of gravity.
A pigtail goes between the Cylinder and the regulator and is subject to FULL cylinder pressure...
and as I keep saying if you don't understand Gas the leave it alone and let those that DO understand it work on it..
native pepper said
05:42 PM Feb 14, 2014
oldbobsbus wrote:
native pepper wrote:
We change over to s/s flexible gas hoses when we got our current bus, over the years we found copper pipes tend to come loose if you go off road and wear rapidly under lots of vibration.
Now we put the flexible hoses inside block poly pipe and seal the ends with silicone, this way nothing gets to the hoses to wear them out. If there are any problems, you just remove the silicone and pull out the hose. Been like that for more than 3 years and never had a problem. Changed the copper gas pipes in our houses and motorsailer to flexible hoses.No need for a plumber, nothing for them to do. Just make sure you use the proper gas tape for connections and no more problems or gas leaks.
The exact reason you need a LICENCED LPGas plumber to do the job, both ends of a primary hose have tapered fittings and need to be installed correctly..
And when you have a leak you will want to blame the fitting and not the incorrect way it was installed
All my work gets passed by government licensed engineers. I always work from their advice, they are the ones that count, no one else. You don't get compliance plates otherwise, the same with my wiring, I do it, then get it inspected and always gets passed. I always tell them of my plans before I make any modification which may need inspecting, they inspected it and told me using flexible hoses was classed as no different to connecting a gas bottle to a stove as long as it was safe and secure. They thought the way I did it was excellent, safe, easily accessed and inspected. As one said to me, by law you need a plumbers license to change a gas bottle as you're dealing with high pressure gas connections. Same with electrical work, it gets inspected by government electrical engineer and that's it. You don't have to break the law by approaching things differently, all you have to do, is do it in the right way and present it for inspection. If it's done right and irrelevant as to who has done it, then by law it has to be passed.
No everyones dumb you know, there are many who have a very wide range of qualifications, working knowledge and experience, outside a a boring one career existence or schoolroom and office. Before you criticise people, you should know a bit about them and what you're talking about. I happen to be a master builder and helped and wired many buildings for sparkies I've worked with. Still hold a drainers licence in a number of states, along with many other licences and qualified experiences.
dorian said
05:52 PM Feb 14, 2014
oldbobsbus wrote:
dorian wrote:
oldbobsbus wrote:
native pepper wrote:
deverall11 wrote:
Unless this issue has been addressed flexible hoses have an inherent problem. This is the problem and it is a finger pointing exercise. After having lost our CAMEC gas regulator on a relatively new van, I had the opportunity to talk to a CAMEC person who did not mind spiling the beans. CAMEC have had an unusual number of gas regulators returned due to failure. One day one of the guys decided to pull one of them apart in order to find out why all these regulators were failing. The person found the regulator was clogged with this black dust. This dust was actually the rubber component inside the braided line. This where the finger pointing is: CAMEC claims (unofficially) that a chemical that is added to the gas (it could be the smelling agent) is causing the rubber to shed. The gas people claim it is a low quality gas line. WE are the meat in the sandwich. I also has a flexi gas line fail (leak) for no reason at all. I suspect the wind turbulence and the bumps as you are travelling. On our next caravan, I will certainly be specifying copper pig tails for gas lines. As usual I stand corrected. Larry
Don't quite understand what you are referring to, what regulator you are talking about. If it is the gas bottle regulator, then how does anything get into it, other than from the gas bottle. Flexible hoses connect to the outlet of the regulator, not the inlet. From what I know it is illegal to have unregulated gas in low pressure lines, which are what the line are from the regulator. So what regulator are you talking about.
You should stick to open source operating systems and leave Gas work to those that are qualified to do it before you blow yourself up and maybe others around you at the time ...
Could a "qualified" person please answer native pepper's question? As an unqualified observer, I'm finding it difficult to comprehend how rubber debris can travel against the direction of gas pressure and against the pull of gravity.
A pigtail goes between the Cylinder and the regulator and is subject to FULL cylinder pressure...
and as I keep saying if you don't understand Gas the leave it alone and let those that DO understand it work on it..
Apparently you don't understand the question. AISI, Native Pepper is saying that the inlet to the regulator is copper whereas the outlet can be flexible, as in the original photo. In such a case there would be no rubber debris on the inlet side.
native pepper said
05:53 PM Feb 14, 2014
oldbobsbus wrote:
dorian wrote:
oldbobsbus wrote:
native pepper wrote:
deverall11 wrote:
Unless this issue has been addressed flexible hoses have an inherent problem. This is the problem and it is a finger pointing exercise. After having lost our CAMEC gas regulator on a relatively new van, I had the opportunity to talk to a CAMEC person who did not mind spiling the beans. CAMEC have had an unusual number of gas regulators returned due to failure. One day one of the guys decided to pull one of them apart in order to find out why all these regulators were failing. The person found the regulator was clogged with this black dust. This dust was actually the rubber component inside the braided line. This where the finger pointing is: CAMEC claims (unofficially) that a chemical that is added to the gas (it could be the smelling agent) is causing the rubber to shed. The gas people claim it is a low quality gas line. WE are the meat in the sandwich. I also has a flexi gas line fail (leak) for no reason at all. I suspect the wind turbulence and the bumps as you are travelling. On our next caravan, I will certainly be specifying copper pig tails for gas lines. As usual I stand corrected. Larry
Don't quite understand what you are referring to, what regulator you are talking about. If it is the gas bottle regulator, then how does anything get into it, other than from the gas bottle. Flexible hoses connect to the outlet of the regulator, not the inlet. From what I know it is illegal to have unregulated gas in low pressure lines, which are what the line are from the regulator. So what regulator are you talking about.
You should stick to open source operating systems and leave Gas work to those that are qualified to do it before you blow yourself up and maybe others around you at the time ...
Could a "qualified" person please answer native pepper's question? As an unqualified observer, I'm finding it difficult to comprehend how rubber debris can travel against the direction of gas pressure and against the pull of gravity.
A pigtail goes between the Cylinder and the regulator and is subject to FULL cylinder pressure...
and as I keep saying if you don't understand Gas the leave it alone and let those that DO understand it work on it..
In deverall11's post, they were referring to flexible hoses and used the term " This dust was actually the rubber component inside the braided line". The conversation was in regard to flexible gas lines, used after the regulator.
-- Edited by native pepper on Friday 14th of February 2014 05:56:02 PM
-- Edited by native pepper on Friday 14th of February 2014 05:58:52 PM
brian said
06:31 PM Feb 14, 2014
native pepper wrote:
In deverall11's post, they were referring to flexible hoses and used the term " This dust was actually the rubber component inside the braided line". The conversation was in regard to flexible gas lines, used after the regulator.
As far as I was aware when I first answered the OP, we were talking about replacing the copper pipes between the bottles and the regulator as shown in the photo with braided lines.
That was what the OP asked about.
When did the discussion become about pipework after the regulator?
MaryJane said
06:39 PM Feb 14, 2014
Well, it's a lively topic! And actually, in my non engineering, non gas plumbing mind that runs purely on common sense, I would not be surprised if the flexi hose could damage thru gas sitting in, weakening the hose interior, and the regulator could suck back the debris to the regulator. All I know is that I lay right over those said gas bottles while sleeping, free camping.
So clearly, I shall be paying Jayco a visit with more questions. And asking a few gas plumbers for personal opinions.
Thanks again for all the input, and for me, at this stage, it's copper, no matter how awkward.
TAJ said
07:07 PM Feb 14, 2014
the 2 gas bottles on my van has got braided hoses
both go into 1 regulator with turnover valve so both
of these lines go INTO the regulator and copper out
suenray
brian said
07:08 PM Feb 14, 2014
Why is it awkward?
The loops allow you a goodly amount of movement to get the pol fitting out of the bottle.
When inserting it, just hold the centre of the fitting hard into the bottle outlet, keep it pretty straight and screw the nut in, left hand thread remember.
It's a cone type fitting, quite possibly with a rubber o-ring or soft nose, so just nip it up with a spanner, will need to be a bit tighter if there is no rubber seal on the fitting. .
dorian said
07:32 PM Feb 14, 2014
AIUI, deverall11 had a failure in a preinstalled CAMEC regulator in a new caravan. Presumably this was fitted by a licenced tradesperson. His statement that "on our next caravan, I will certainly be specifying copper pig tails for gas lines" would suggest that his current caravan was fitted with flexible hoses. This in turn begs the question, did the caravan manufacturer get it wrong, or does the standard allow for flexible hoses on the inlet side? It would appear that the majority opinion is that the standard was violated, in which case this begs a second question, namely why did a "CAMEC person" not make the same obvious connection that native pepper did? In other words, why did he not point the finger at the installer rather than blaming a "smelling agent" in the gas? Furthermore, since "CAMEC have had an unusual number of gas regulators returned due to failure", did CAMEC actually inspect any of the installations, and if not, why not?
brian said
07:46 PM Feb 14, 2014
dorian wrote:
AIUI, deverall11 had a failure in a preinstalled CAMEC regulator in a new caravan. Presumably this was fitted by a licenced tradesperson. His statement that "on our next caravan, I will certainly be specifying copper pig tails for gas lines" would suggest that his current caravan was fitted with flexible hoses. This in turn begs the question, did the caravan manufacturer get it wrong, or does the standard allow for flexible hoses on the inlet side? It would appear that the majority opinion is that the standard was violated, in which case this begs a second question, namely why did a "CAMEC person" not make the same obvious connection that native pepper did? In other words, why did he not point the finger at the installer rather than blaming a "smelling agent" in the gas? Furthermore, since "CAMEC have had an unusual number of gas regulators returned due to failure", did CAMEC actually inspect any of the installations, and if not, why not?
There is no restriction on the use of the correctly rated flexible hose from the bottle to the regulator.
the ginger nomad said
08:06 PM Feb 14, 2014
Sorry everyone,but if you look closely you will note the OUTLET pipe from the regulator is a copper pipe with protective sleeve! Ths is exactly the same as in our van.I believe what was posted about the crap in the reg meant that the flexible line was between the bottle an the reg NOT after the reg.
John
i have a Jayco 2009 caravan, fitted with copper lines etc for the gas bottles. I previously had no problems changing bottles over, until recently. While looking at different set ups, I noticed that many caravans (different models) come with flexi hose connections.
Soooooo, I would like to ask the following:
Many thanks,
MJ
I assume that Jayco use them because they are cheaper to make themselves without the need for a swaging press.
Those copper pipes, especially with the anti-vibration loops, should serve you well.
Why would you want to change them?
Maybe if your plumber mate can't do it for you he may be able to get a licenced fitter to do it for you..
Ohhhh and you may need to get your mate to buy the hoses for you as most Plumbers supply places will only sell LPGas fittings to licence holders I know thats the case with Tradelink..
Hi
The latest gas Standards call for a copper pipe connection between bottle & regulator
PLUS
The regulator SHALL BE two stage & mounted above the bottle outlet
YES it does require a licensed GAS fitter to do the job & recertify it.
Older non complying vans will be required to be updated before sale or Reregistering [lapsed rego]
Depending on how the bottle is housed ,that can be a real B^**er
PeterQ
-- Edited by oldtrack123 on Friday 14th of February 2014 03:27:21 PM
Best you find the item No. in as5601-2013 that prohibits the use of certified flexible pigtail hoses on caravans and put it here Peter.....
I believe you statement to be incorrect and I thing you are scaremongering..
flexible replacement hoses are available in caravan assesory stores, "coast to coast" at least and are available across the counter. they are screw in as the old copper ones are screw out. I changed mine over and checked for any leaks , just like someone chargeing $85 a hour would do.
every one to their own I say.
Bob
This is the problem and it is a finger pointing exercise.
After having lost our CAMEC gas regulator on a relatively new van, I had the opportunity to talk to a CAMEC person who did not mind spiling the beans. CAMEC have had an unusual number of gas regulators returned due to failure. One day one of the guys decided to pull one of them apart in order to find out why all these regulators were failing. The person found the regulator was clogged with this black dust. This dust was actually the rubber component inside the braided line.
This where the finger pointing is:
CAMEC claims (unofficially) that a chemical that is added to the gas (it could be the smelling agent) is causing the rubber to shed.
The gas people claim it is a low quality gas line.
WE are the meat in the sandwich.
I also has a flexi gas line fail (leak) for no reason at all. I suspect the wind turbulence and the bumps as you are travelling.
On our next caravan, I will certainly be specifying copper pig tails for gas lines.
As usual I stand corrected.
Larry
I have had the S/Steel Braided Flexible hoses on our 2003 Boroma from new and have never had problems with the hoses or regulator. We live in our van and have been for 11 years, so have used numerous bottles of gas including 15 months in Tassie where we used about 37 bottles with using the Truma Gas Heater and cooking purposes.
Maybe the problem could be caused by where the LP bottles are fitted as ours are in the Front Boot Compartment and Not in Direct sunlight which could cause the Braided Hoses to get too much heat and degrade the internal rubber compounds of the hoses.??!.
I have recently fitted a set of two hoses at a cost of $44 (Kyabram Camp Store) to a mates van as he was sick and tired of aligning the Copper Pipes/POL fittings as his hands aren't what they used to be, he is rapped with the easier fitting of the new hoses to the bottles.
Cheers Kev.
Anyway. It seems they used to use flexi but moved to copper due to time causing flexi to build with " a rubber substance", quote and hence block the regulator. Another quote was that gas build up damaged the regulator due to dust etc.
Either which way, it seems copper is the go, I just need to drop it by Jayco and maybe get them to see what is causing the probs with the changeover ie struggling to undo the bottles, which never used to ba a problem.
And they also stated, it takes several years or more for flexi hose to disintegrate to a point internally that it will block the regulator.
Thanks again, I will carry on making my veggie soup. Much safer.
I agree Kev, aligning has become an issue, when it didn't used to be
We change over to s/s flexible gas hoses when we got our current bus, over the years we found copper pipes tend to come loose if you go off road and wear rapidly under lots of vibration.
Now we put the flexible hoses inside black poly pipe and seal the ends with silicone, this way nothing gets to the hoses to wear them out. If there are any problems, you just remove the silicone and pull out the hose. Been like that for more than 3 years and never had a problem. Changed the copper gas pipes in our houses and motorsailer to flexible hoses. No need for a plumber, nothing for them to do. Just make sure you use the proper gas tape for connections and no more problems or gas leaks.
-- Edited by native pepper on Friday 14th of February 2014 04:52:09 PM
Thanks Larry, ur comment is pretty much what Jayco said, as per my later post below
The exact reason you need a LICENCED LPGas plumber to do the job, both ends of a primary hose have tapered fittings and need to be installed correctly..
And when you have a leak you will want to blame the fitting and not the incorrect way it was installed
Don't quite understand what you are referring to, what regulator you are talking about. If it is the gas bottle regulator, then how does anything get into it, other than from the gas bottle. Flexible hoses connect to the outlet of the regulator, not the inlet. From what I know it is illegal to have unregulated gas in low pressure lines, which are what the line are from the regulator. So what regulator are you talking about.
You should stick to open source operating systems and leave Gas work to those that are qualified to do it before you blow yourself up and maybe others around you at the time ...
Could a "qualified" person please answer native pepper's question? As an unqualified observer, I'm finding it difficult to comprehend how rubber debris can travel against the direction of gas pressure and against the pull of gravity.
A pigtail goes between the Cylinder and the regulator and is subject to FULL cylinder pressure...
and as I keep saying if you don't understand Gas the leave it alone and let those that DO understand it work on it..
All my work gets passed by government licensed engineers. I always work from their advice, they are the ones that count, no one else. You don't get compliance plates otherwise, the same with my wiring, I do it, then get it inspected and always gets passed. I always tell them of my plans before I make any modification which may need inspecting, they inspected it and told me using flexible hoses was classed as no different to connecting a gas bottle to a stove as long as it was safe and secure. They thought the way I did it was excellent, safe, easily accessed and inspected. As one said to me, by law you need a plumbers license to change a gas bottle as you're dealing with high pressure gas connections. Same with electrical work, it gets inspected by government electrical engineer and that's it. You don't have to break the law by approaching things differently, all you have to do, is do it in the right way and present it for inspection. If it's done right and irrelevant as to who has done it, then by law it has to be passed.
No everyones dumb you know, there are many who have a very wide range of qualifications, working knowledge and experience, outside a a boring one career existence or schoolroom and office. Before you criticise people, you should know a bit about them and what you're talking about. I happen to be a master builder and helped and wired many buildings for sparkies I've worked with. Still hold a drainers licence in a number of states, along with many other licences and qualified experiences.
Apparently you don't understand the question. AISI, Native Pepper is saying that the inlet to the regulator is copper whereas the outlet can be flexible, as in the original photo. In such a case there would be no rubber debris on the inlet side.
In deverall11's post, they were referring to flexible hoses and used the term " This dust was actually the rubber component inside the braided line". The conversation was in regard to flexible gas lines, used after the regulator.
-- Edited by native pepper on Friday 14th of February 2014 05:56:02 PM
-- Edited by native pepper on Friday 14th of February 2014 05:58:52 PM
So clearly, I shall be paying Jayco a visit with more questions. And asking a few gas plumbers for personal opinions.
Thanks again for all the input, and for me, at this stage, it's copper, no matter how awkward.
the 2 gas bottles on my van has got braided hoses
both go into 1 regulator with turnover valve so both
of these lines go INTO the regulator and copper out
suenray
Why is it awkward?
The loops allow you a goodly amount of movement to get the pol fitting out of the bottle.
When inserting it, just hold the centre of the fitting hard into the bottle outlet, keep it pretty straight and screw the nut in, left hand thread remember.
It's a cone type fitting, quite possibly with a rubber o-ring or soft nose, so just nip it up with a spanner, will need to be a bit tighter if there is no rubber seal on the fitting. .
There is no restriction on the use of the correctly rated flexible hose from the bottle to the regulator.
John