As an ex electrician this has me boxed.. Hot day air con running sweet as pie and then the RCD in the van and on the park post trips. Got the post going again but the van went out for over 24 hrs the first time and 6 hours the second thank goodness for 2 big house batteries and a solar panel. The only guess I can put together is that the water from the aircon is shorting the 240VAC input and works again when the earth fault goes. I have tilted my van "nose up" by about 12mm to help the water drain better, yet to see if that works.
Has anybody else had this issue or do I have a "Friday afternoon van?"
valiant81 said
04:56 PM Jan 31, 2014
Hi;
certainly does sound like water getting into the air conditioner, maybe remove the top cover off of the unit and have a good look around, maybe use a 'megger ' to find out what has gone to ground ??
valiant81 said
05:00 PM Jan 31, 2014
Hi;
Certainly does sound like water getting into the air conditioner, maybe remove the top cover off of the unit and have a good look around, maybe use a 'megger ' to find out what has gone to ground ??
Phil C said
05:26 PM Jan 31, 2014
Have done the megger check and when OK its all over 10 meg earth to active and neutral. The water is the only thing I can think of, is there any way to improve the drainage? Thanks for the reply.
valiant81 said
08:25 PM Jan 31, 2014
Hi phil;
Water injest can be a real pain to track down as it will run a long way befor it rears it's ugly head. I wouldn't try and tell you to suck eggs , but what about the rest of the caravan, eg: do you have a hot water system?? , can you isolate just the air con and maybe have some one hose down the roof with water from the garden hose. Do you have the thermostate turned up to max and also the fan on high, then try the megger.
I used a megger when checking out the magnatrone in micro wave ovens and was the only way to test it was faulty or not.
I also had a old power point with the active and neutral "tired" to gether to one side of the megger and the other side went to the earth pin. This was a nother trick that was quiet common in tracking down odd fauts like this.
Can the front panel of the air con be removed and have a bit of look in there ??. Seems funny that the air con is fine until there is a down poor of rain. Could it be water getting in to the back of the 240 Volt input on the caravan or even in to the 240 Volt outlet on the outside, any way good luck
-- Edited by valiant81 on Friday 31st of January 2014 08:26:21 PM
-- Edited by valiant81 on Friday 31st of January 2014 08:28:30 PM
Phil C said
10:15 AM Feb 1, 2014
Thanks for the info valiant 81, you sound like someone who knows their stuff. Firstly I isolated all the 240v gear in the van, this included the battery charger etc. There was nothing else connected other than the aircon. Further to that I googled the install manual and found that the unit must never be more that 5 degrees from the horizontal and the back must always be lower than the front. OK I have done that and will try a long run in the next few days as it is going to get hot here. I am surprised that there seems to be no allowance for condensate run off, seems the caravan roof does that. I will keep you posted. I would be keen to see if anyone else gets this problem. I still believe the condensate is the problem as we havnt had rain for weeks. Thanks again valiant.
-- Edited by Phil C on Saturday 1st of February 2014 10:55:02 AM
Phil C said
09:26 AM Feb 3, 2014
OK, day 3 of heat and the aircon has not let us down. After reading the manual I tilted the van nose up by about 2 degrees from the horizontal and no problems. Thanks for your help folks, goes to show that forums like this work. Cheers
valiant81 said
09:51 AM Feb 3, 2014
Hi Philc;
Great news, Well kind of, 3 degrees on the caravan and ok, still a easy fix.But I would still like to know what is been pulled down and taking out the ELB. have you had a talk with the manufactures.
Phil C said
10:55 AM Feb 3, 2014
Yes, evidently the mains terminals could only be placed where they contact the condensate if the back is higher than the front. Even at dead level there is potential for an earth leak. Air Command tech service bloke said it was a design problem but because of the limited space etc they have little choice. Also drainage may be an issue, still cant see any drain off.. To me that sounds all wrong, a little silastic may overcome that. I suspect a part of one of the motors (I believe they are induction motors) is doing the ugly deed when the angles are wrong. A very interesting fault, however it "seems" to be fixed. Thank goodness for RCDs.
Oh, I just had another thought, perhaps the installer didnt follow the instructions and parked the back a little high.. Food for thought.
-- Edited by Phil C on Monday 3rd of February 2014 10:58:40 AM
valiant81 said
01:10 PM Feb 3, 2014
Hi Philc;
Yes silastic would be a good choice, and there are many types out there and all would do a good job at keeping the water at bay. I think from memory that corning also have a silastic that is more suited for high voltage than any of the others. I used to use it ( and i think it was black or grey in colour ) to stop EHT flash over from flyback transformers and also tripplers that were used in tube type color televisions. This type of silastic had a greater brake down voltage rather than the type of silastic that the plumbers would uses. This was also avalable in small tubes, about the size of a tooth past tube. Not certain on the cure time, but i would leave a repair over night to go off.
Phil C said
01:47 PM Feb 3, 2014
Thanks valiant 81. I was not aware that a HV variant of silastic was out there. I will get some of that and fingers crossed find the offending terminals and apply copious quantities on them. FYI its not so bad with the van at 2 degrees not that noticeable, unless my inclinometer is out.. be good, safe travels
Phil C said
11:19 AM Feb 8, 2014
Well here is the conclusion to this story. Its been rather hot here the past few weeks, so the aircon has been getting a hammering. My wife was rather disturbed by a small puddle forming behind the caravan, I was delighted. It seems the aircon vents the condensate on the roof letting it flow to the back of the van, hence the direction to ensure back lower than front. It also makes sense that any stray water around the top of the unit will gravity down to any connections and blow the RCD. Problem solved... woo hoo
Kooroorinya Kelpie said
02:23 PM Feb 9, 2014
PhilC you have just reinforced one of my long held philosophies " There is no such thing as a problem--only a solution waiting to be found". Cheers.
As an ex electrician this has me boxed.. Hot day air con running sweet as pie and then the RCD in the van and on the park post trips. Got the post going again but the van went out for over 24 hrs the first time and 6 hours the second thank goodness for 2 big house batteries and a solar panel. The only guess I can put together is that the water from the aircon is shorting the 240VAC input and works again when the earth fault goes. I have tilted my van "nose up" by about 12mm to help the water drain better, yet to see if that works.
Has anybody else had this issue or do I have a "Friday afternoon van?"
Hi;
certainly does sound like water getting into the air conditioner, maybe remove the top cover off of the unit and have a good look around, maybe use a 'megger ' to find out what has gone to ground ??
Hi;
Certainly does sound like water getting into the air conditioner, maybe remove the top cover off of the unit and have a good look around, maybe use a 'megger ' to find out what has gone to ground ??
Hi phil;
Water injest can be a real pain to track down as it will run a long way befor it rears it's ugly head. I wouldn't try and tell you to suck eggs , but what about the rest of the caravan, eg: do you have a hot water system?? , can you isolate just the air con and maybe have some one hose down the roof with water from the garden hose. Do you have the thermostate turned up to max and also the fan on high, then try the megger.
I used a megger when checking out the magnatrone in micro wave ovens and was the only way to test it was faulty or not.
I also had a old power point with the active and neutral "tired" to gether to one side of the megger and the other side went to the earth pin. This was a nother trick that was quiet common in tracking down odd fauts like this.
Can the front panel of the air con be removed and have a bit of look in there ??. Seems funny that the air con is fine until there is a down poor of rain. Could it be water getting in to the back of the 240 Volt input on the caravan or even in to the 240 Volt outlet on the outside, any way good luck
-- Edited by valiant81 on Friday 31st of January 2014 08:26:21 PM
-- Edited by valiant81 on Friday 31st of January 2014 08:28:30 PM
Thanks for the info valiant 81, you sound like someone who knows their stuff. Firstly I isolated all the 240v gear in the van, this included the battery charger etc. There was nothing else connected other than the aircon. Further to that I googled the install manual and found that the unit must never be more that 5 degrees from the horizontal and the back must always be lower than the front. OK I have done that and will try a long run in the next few days as it is going to get hot here. I am surprised that there seems to be no allowance for condensate run off, seems the caravan roof does that. I will keep you posted. I would be keen to see if anyone else gets this problem. I still believe the condensate is the problem as we havnt had rain for weeks. Thanks again valiant.
-- Edited by Phil C on Saturday 1st of February 2014 10:55:02 AM
Hi Philc;
Great news, Well kind of, 3 degrees on the caravan and ok, still a easy fix.But I would still like to know what is been pulled down and taking out the ELB. have you had a talk with the manufactures.
Yes, evidently the mains terminals could only be placed where they contact the condensate if the back is higher than the front. Even at dead level there is potential for an earth leak. Air Command tech service bloke said it was a design problem but because of the limited space etc they have little choice. Also drainage may be an issue, still cant see any drain off.. To me that sounds all wrong, a little silastic may overcome that. I suspect a part of one of the motors (I believe they are induction motors) is doing the ugly deed when the angles are wrong. A very interesting fault, however it "seems" to be fixed. Thank goodness for RCDs.
Oh, I just had another thought, perhaps the installer didnt follow the instructions and parked the back a little high.. Food for thought.
-- Edited by Phil C on Monday 3rd of February 2014 10:58:40 AM
Hi Philc;
Yes silastic would be a good choice, and there are many types out there and all would do a good job at keeping the water at bay. I think from memory that corning also have a silastic that is more suited for high voltage than any of the others. I used to use it ( and i think it was black or grey in colour ) to stop EHT flash over from flyback transformers and also tripplers that were used in tube type color televisions. This type of silastic had a greater brake down voltage rather than the type of silastic that the plumbers would uses. This was also avalable in small tubes, about the size of a tooth past tube. Not certain on the cure time, but i would leave a repair over night to go off.
Thanks valiant 81. I was not aware that a HV variant of silastic was out there. I will get some of that and fingers crossed find the offending terminals and apply copious quantities on them. FYI its not so bad with the van at 2 degrees not that noticeable, unless my inclinometer is out.. be good, safe travels
Thanks Kelpie, save travels mate.