I've been told that all diesels are not born equal, some are better than others. I use the gull servo down the road and so far I've had no issues but then my van has just under 10,000 on the clock. Any thoughts?
-- Edited by Bryan on Thursday 16th of January 2014 11:23:52 PM
deverall11 said
09:35 AM Jan 17, 2014
Bryan,
You may be right regarding diesels being born equal, however there is a difference.
Most people on the Lancruiser forum have indicated a problem using some diesels. Usually issues with fuel filter. Most of these people now only use and recommend Caltex Vortex, BP and Shell. Not a lot of comments on Mobil.
When using a bio diesel, at least in a modern vehicle, there is a certain cleaning action which will cause a problem with the fuel filter.
All of the people that have had a problem with bad fuel from the abovementioned companies have had their repair bills refunded.
I spoke to a fuel delivery truck driver who trucked fuel for a 'lesser' brand and mentioned some horrible practices. You may get away with an older style vehicle, but may/will cause a problem on a modern vehicle.
For me and possibly most of the Landcruiser forumites, we are happy to pay a little extra at the pump and save the possibility of a break down.
This is a fairly generic statement and as always, I stand corrected.
Larry
Bryan said
04:18 PM Jan 17, 2014
Thanks for the advice Deverall, its been nagging away at the back of my mind since I first heard about it. My camper is based on a 2011 Fiat Ducato so I better stick the three you mentioned.
Just had a look Troopy. Confused me no end (lol). Before I was looking at different brands, now there's bio thrown into the mix. Aaaaaaargh pulling my hair out.
justcruisin01 said
08:42 PM Jan 17, 2014
Only ever use Shell/ caltex. The caltex vortex seems to have a bit more kick.I will NEVER use BP. The local united uses shell, prefer to use the original shell further down the street.
Bryan said
09:55 PM Jan 17, 2014
Thanks JC. I think Vortex will be the go for me. Rather spend a couple of cents a litre more and save on potential repair bills.
rockylizard said
10:53 PM Jan 17, 2014
Gday...
It has constantly interested and intrigued me ever since I bought my first car at age 16 how people seem to have their "preference" for particular fuels - this brand is good, that brand is not good, this brand gave bad economy, that brand gave lower power etc etc.
This has been whether petrol or diesel.
I have never found any difference in performance or economy in any vehicle I have owned in the ensuing 50 years - notwithstanding actual octane rating differences. I do admit to being 'careful and cautious' in the fuel I purchase - as others have said ... regarding don't fill if the tanker is filling the servo's tanks, roadwork/pavement work in servo, or filling from drums or very grotty places in outback places.
Having said that, I have now been travelling this wide, brown land for the past five years. I cannot understand how people can make the statement that "I will only use XXX Brand because it is the best." How do you do that when you are travelling, especially away from very main/major towns?
Many/most of the places where I need to fill my vehicle are small outback/country towns and there is often only one servo in town - and the suppliers are many and varied.
I really do hesitate to make the next statement (that bloke Murphy is ALWAYS around the corner ) .... but I have not found the slightest difference in fuel economy or vehicle performance from ANY brand of diesel I have had to use.
I keep detailed records of km travelled and litres used for each of my vehicles for the past 13 years. and it only seems to be 'differences in weather (wind) or terrain (hills etc)' that affects the economy.
I have used EVERY known brand of diesel from hundreds of places and servos around this land - I cannot see how anyone can genuinely substantiate the claims of how one brand is better than another.
I will now stand back and duck the rotten tomatoes and fruit that will probably be thrown my way.
Cheers - John
hako said
11:58 PM Jan 17, 2014
I have to agree with John, I run petrol not diesel, but have used every brand and octane and noticed absolutely no measureable difference.
I do notice fuel tankers going into Shell, Caltex, Woolworths etc and sometimes they have no brand name on the sides of the tank.....I asked the booth attendant and she said they were "jobbers"????
Similarly I have used all brands of oils with no apparent measureable difference - from Black and Gold to Mobil 1.
I reckon basically it is all an illusion, and a very successful one at that.
Regards
oldbobsbus said
02:09 PM Jan 18, 2014
hako wrote:
Similarly I have used all brands of oils with no apparent measureable difference - from Black and Gold to Mobil 1. I reckon basically it is all an illusion, and a very successful one at that. Regards
I can assure you there is an very BIG difference between oils..as the old Castrol advert went (Oils ain't Oils Sol)
I was the local Castrol distributor for 20yrs and during that time we got to know a little about oil, I had a big earthmoving company that the owner always used to say "I would rather put quality Oil in my machinery than expensive motors in them".
Most of the big truck manufacturers insist on having an oil test done before they will commence any warranty work..
The quality oils start from the very best base oils and have the best additives added to get them up to the latest specs do the job required..
Lower grade oils use lower grade base oil or recycled oil and they just put enough additives in to get them up to usually old out of date specs..
When buying oil you need to know what specs your vehicle manufacturer requires and then only by the oil that comes up to that spec..
KFT said
02:22 PM Jan 18, 2014
hey Bob, thanks for that info.
My Navara V9X V6 TD manual specifies oil that is 5W-30 ACEA-C4.
the dealer tells me they use 5W-30 ACEA-C3.
from your vast experience could this be an issue?
frank
oldbobsbus said
03:03 PM Jan 18, 2014
C4 is certainly a later spec than C3, below is a thread I found when I googled ACEA-C4 I came across this.. It looks like it has to do with the emission control sensors
I am thinking that C3 would be ok to use but you can do what many many other owners do and supply your own oil..
Many of our dealers didn't use Castrol oils so the owners would come and get their own oito be put in at service time..
We had one bloke that caught a dealer out, when he bought his oil he also bought a test kit and when he picked his car up he insisted they put it back up on the hoist and take a sample out of the sump...lots of red faces in the service dept and eventually they admitted they didn't put his oil in and dropped it out and refilled it with the right oil..I believe he got a reasonable amount of compensation from the dealership..
KFT said
03:52 PM Jan 18, 2014
thanks mate
interesting. C4 is a low ash oil and this is to assist with the function of the DPF do I have that right?
so how would I know that they have actually put my oil in and not kept it for themselves and put their cheaper stuff in?
the penrite C4 from supercheap is $140 for 10L
the Nulon is cheaper I think about $65
I will ask them when next service is due if they are happy to use my oil.
frank
sandsmere said
04:51 PM Jan 18, 2014
I agree that oils are specialised these days with all the different types of engines around .
As for diesel . . . Been driving diesels for a lot of years and used all sorts of brands with no problems or obvious
changes in performance . If you are only going to use 1 or 2 brands you are going to miss out on seeing a hell of a lot
of Australia .
oldbobsbus said
04:59 PM Jan 18, 2014
KFT wrote:
thanks mate
interesting. C4 is a low ash oil and this is to assist with the function of the DPF do I have that right?
so how would I know that they have actually put my oil in and not kept it for themselves and put their cheaper stuff in?
the penrite C4 from supercheap is $140 for 10L the Nulon is cheaper I think about $65
I will ask them when next service is due if they are happy to use my oil.
frank
They really have no choice but to use your oil if you insist..
I would give them a small Vegemite size jar (must be glass) and ask them to save me a sample of my old oil (the one they are taking out) and then let them know that you are also going to ask for a sample at the following service and tell them you have a mate (me) that can get it tested for you so you can see if there is any things going wrong with the oil thats being used..
That of course is BS but it will make sure they do put your oil in..
When we sent samples away to Castrol for testing the things they could tell you about your motor and the oil would absolutely blow your mind, we didn't have to tell them anything about it not even the brand or grade of oil it was just the engine details..
Castrol guarantees their oil and if by using it your motor suffers a failure they will repair it free of charge..
KFT said
05:47 PM Jan 18, 2014
amazing Bob, they must have top notch labs to be able to tell you as much as you say.
Do Castrol make oil to this spec? I would prefer to use that if I can get it.
I have looked around the net and can find very few companies advertising C4 oil. perhaps I am not looking in the right place.
thanks for your advice much appreciated.
frank
native pepper said
06:44 PM Jan 18, 2014
Get our oil from the same place as all the truck and machinery companies get theirs, either 20lt or 200lt. It carries the distributors name, but not the brand of oil. Been assured by many and showed me the specs and they were higher then most brand names, really designed for heavy duty use. We carry 20lt which covers a 5000klm oil change and buy valvoline on the road if we need it, that's what was recommended for value and quality.
Probably modern cars would need to be more careful with their oils, as the majority were not designed for constant towing. So the type and quality of oil would be very important when engines and drive lines are working so hard.
oldbobsbus said
07:31 PM Jan 18, 2014
KFT wrote:
amazing Bob, they must have top notch labs to be able to tell you as much as you say.
Do Castrol make oil to this spec? I would prefer to use that if I can get it.
I have looked around the net and can find very few companies advertising C4 oil. perhaps I am not looking in the right place.
thanks for your advice much appreciated.
frank
Goto the Castrol site and put in all of your vehicles details and see what it come up with..
it seems Castrol do not have a product, the site advised me to call their tech support line.
Fuchs have one as do western oil but I have no idea where western oils come from
thanks for your advice. I will keep researching till I find out what the go is.
have you left for Uralla yet?
frank
oldbobsbus said
09:04 PM Jan 18, 2014
We will be off on Monday sometime mate..
Just don't know what time as we have a few things happening and it will depend on how they all pan out on Monday morning...
Why can't solicitors be like us farmers and work 24/7...lol
KFT said
09:37 PM Jan 18, 2014
Bob if they did that imagine the hourly rate THEN??
After hours at 250% plus, plus!!!
bluddy rich enough now I reckon not good to give em any more ideas.
but then I suppose you are in need ATM and you can't find one?
Is there a duty solicitor system at legal aid or somewhere that might be of some help?
travel safe when you do get on the road
frank
oldbobsbus said
06:46 AM Jan 19, 2014
Its very simple Frank, I just need to sign some paperwork and I cant do it untill they open on Monday....
I have no problems with any Better brands of oil you should be able to get Penrite from you local spare parts shop and also Fuchs.
I find Supercheap to be Superdear on just about everything.
We are lucky here we not only have Supercheap and Repco we also have 2 independant parts suppliers..
deverall11 said
10:49 AM Jan 19, 2014
oldbobsbus wrote:
hako wrote:
Similarly I have used all brands of oils with no apparent measureable difference - from Black and Gold to Mobil 1. I reckon basically it is all an illusion, and a very successful one at that. Regards
I can assure you there is an very BIG difference between oils..as the old Castrol advert went (Oils ain't Oils Sol)
I was the local Castrol distributor for 20yrs and during that time we got to know a little about oil, I had a big earthmoving company that the owner always used to say "I would rather put quality Oil in my machinery than expensive motors in them".
Most of the big truck manufacturers insist on having an oil test done before they will commence any warranty work..
The quality oils start from the very best base oils and have the best additives added to get them up to the latest specs do the job required..
Lower grade oils use lower grade base oil or recycled oil and they just put enough additives in to get them up to usually old out of date specs..
When buying oil you need to know what specs your vehicle manufacturer requires and then only by the oil that comes up to that spec..
Driving your vehicle with brand X will not give you 'apparent measureable difference'. However as Bob said there is a BIG difference. With modern vehicles which are highly tuned to conform with emissions and deliver performance, good quality oils have never been so critical. Foe the sake of a few more $$, it is cheap insurance. Same goes with diesel and fuel filters. Cheap insurance as opposed to having a hefty repair bill. 200 series Landcruiser 8 injectors and fuel pump.
Companies using big diesel or gas engines, where you are looking at a few hundred litres of oil, will get an oil analysis and based on the result will do an oil change. Obviously for these people it is cheaper to pay for oil analysis then replace the oil if not required. However, they also rely on good quality oil to see them thru what is an acceptable time frame between oil changes.
Larry
Baz421 said
04:16 PM Jan 20, 2014
rockylizard wrote:
Gday...
I really do hesitate to make the next statement (that bloke Murphy is ALWAYS around the corner ) .... but I have not found the slightest difference in fuel economy or vehicle performance from ANY brand of diesel I have had to use.
I keep detailed records of km travelled and litres used for each of my vehicles for the past 13 years. and it only seems to be 'differences in weather (wind) or terrain (hills etc)' that affects the economy.
I have used EVERY known brand of diesel from hundreds of places and servos around this land - I cannot see how anyone can genuinely substantiate the claims of how one brand is better than another.
I will now stand back and duck the rotten tomatoes and fruit that will probably be thrown my way.
Cheers - John
Agree with you John,,,, no problems here with Diesel anywhere so far,, use all brands,, hi flow/ low flow, and fill up out bush often to help small towns survive. Had problems with petrol though years ago but it was the servo not the supplier,,, dirty tank I suspect in Katherine (and I wasn't the only one either).
I've been told that all diesels are not born equal, some are better than others. I use the gull servo down the road and so far I've had no issues but then my van has just under 10,000 on the clock. Any thoughts?
-- Edited by Bryan on Thursday 16th of January 2014 11:23:52 PM
You may be right regarding diesels being born equal, however there is a difference.
Most people on the Lancruiser forum have indicated a problem using some diesels. Usually issues with fuel filter. Most of these people now only use and recommend Caltex Vortex, BP and Shell. Not a lot of comments on Mobil.
When using a bio diesel, at least in a modern vehicle, there is a certain cleaning action which will cause a problem with the fuel filter.
All of the people that have had a problem with bad fuel from the abovementioned companies have had their repair bills refunded.
I spoke to a fuel delivery truck driver who trucked fuel for a 'lesser' brand and mentioned some horrible practices. You may get away with an older style vehicle, but may/will cause a problem on a modern vehicle.
For me and possibly most of the Landcruiser forumites, we are happy to pay a little extra at the pump and save the possibility of a break down.
This is a fairly generic statement and as always, I stand corrected.
Larry
Try looking in this thread
When is diesel not diesel?
Only ever use Shell/ caltex. The caltex vortex seems to have a bit more kick.I will NEVER use BP. The local united uses shell, prefer to use the original shell further down the street.
Gday...
It has constantly interested and intrigued me ever since I bought my first car at age 16 how people seem to have their "preference" for particular fuels - this brand is good, that brand is not good, this brand gave bad economy, that brand gave lower power etc etc.
This has been whether petrol or diesel.
I have never found any difference in performance or economy in any vehicle I have owned in the ensuing 50 years - notwithstanding actual octane rating differences. I do admit to being 'careful and cautious' in the fuel I purchase - as others have said ... regarding don't fill if the tanker is filling the servo's tanks, roadwork/pavement work in servo, or filling from drums or very grotty places in outback places.
Having said that, I have now been travelling this wide, brown land for the past five years. I cannot understand how people can make the statement that "I will only use XXX Brand because it is the best." How do you do that when you are travelling, especially away from very main/major towns?
Many/most of the places where I need to fill my vehicle are small outback/country towns and there is often only one servo in town - and the suppliers are many and varied.
I really do hesitate to make the next statement (that bloke Murphy is ALWAYS around the corner
) .... but I have not found the slightest difference in fuel economy or vehicle performance from ANY brand of diesel I have had to use.
I keep detailed records of km travelled and litres used for each of my vehicles for the past 13 years. and it only seems to be 'differences in weather (wind) or terrain (hills etc)' that affects the economy.
I have used EVERY known brand of diesel from hundreds of places and servos around this land - I cannot see how anyone can genuinely substantiate the claims of how one brand is better than another.
I will now stand back and duck the rotten tomatoes and fruit that will probably be thrown my way.
Cheers - John
I do notice fuel tankers going into Shell, Caltex, Woolworths etc and sometimes they have no brand name on the sides of the tank.....I asked the booth attendant and she said they were "jobbers"????
Similarly I have used all brands of oils with no apparent measureable difference - from Black and Gold to Mobil 1.
I reckon basically it is all an illusion, and a very successful one at that.
Regards
I can assure you there is an very BIG difference between oils..as the old Castrol advert went (Oils ain't Oils Sol)
I was the local Castrol distributor for 20yrs and during that time we got to know a little about oil, I had a big earthmoving company that the owner always used to say "I would rather put quality Oil in my machinery than expensive motors in them".
Most of the big truck manufacturers insist on having an oil test done before they will commence any warranty work..
The quality oils start from the very best base oils and have the best additives added to get them up to the latest specs do the job required..
Lower grade oils use lower grade base oil or recycled oil and they just put enough additives in to get them up to usually old out of date specs..
When buying oil you need to know what specs your vehicle manufacturer requires and then only by the oil that comes up to that spec..
My Navara V9X V6 TD manual specifies oil that is 5W-30 ACEA-C4.
the dealer tells me they use 5W-30 ACEA-C3.
from your vast experience could this be an issue?
frank
C4 is certainly a later spec than C3, below is a thread I found when I googled ACEA-C4 I came across this..
It looks like it has to do with the emission control sensors
http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/technical-performance/101286-thoughts-acea-c4-vs-c3.html
I am thinking that C3 would be ok to use but you can do what many many other owners do and supply your own oil..
Many of our dealers didn't use Castrol oils so the owners would come and get their own oito be put in at service time..
We had one bloke that caught a dealer out, when he bought his oil he also bought a test kit and when he picked his car up he insisted they put it back up on the hoist and take a sample out of the sump...lots of red faces in the service dept and eventually they admitted they didn't put his oil in and dropped it out and refilled it with the right oil..I believe he got a reasonable amount of compensation from the dealership..
interesting. C4 is a low ash oil and this is to assist with the function of the DPF do I have that right?
so how would I know that they have actually put my oil in and not kept it for themselves and put their cheaper stuff in?
the penrite C4 from supercheap is $140 for 10L
the Nulon is cheaper I think about $65
I will ask them when next service is due if they are happy to use my oil.
frank
I agree that oils are specialised these days with all the different types of engines around .
As for diesel . . . Been driving diesels for a lot of years and used all sorts of brands with no problems or obvious
changes in performance . If you are only going to use 1 or 2 brands you are going to miss out on seeing a hell of a lot
of Australia .
They really have no choice but to use your oil if you insist..
I would give them a small Vegemite size jar (must be glass) and ask them to save me a sample of my old oil (the one they are taking out) and then let them know that you are also going to ask for a sample at the following service and tell them you have a mate (me) that can get it tested for you so you can see if there is any things going wrong with the oil thats being used..
That of course is BS but it will make sure they do put your oil in..
When we sent samples away to Castrol for testing the things they could tell you about your motor and the oil would absolutely blow your mind, we didn't have to tell them anything about it not even the brand or grade of oil it was just the engine details..
Castrol guarantees their oil and if by using it your motor suffers a failure they will repair it free of charge..
Do Castrol make oil to this spec? I would prefer to use that if I can get it.
I have looked around the net and can find very few companies advertising C4 oil. perhaps I am not looking in the right place.
thanks for your advice much appreciated.
frank
Probably modern cars would need to be more careful with their oils, as the majority were not designed for constant towing. So the type and quality of oil would be very important when engines and drive lines are working so hard.
Goto the Castrol site and put in all of your vehicles details and see what it come up with..
http://www.castrol.com/castrol/castrolhomepage.do?categoryId=3000
it seems Castrol do not have a product, the site advised me to call their tech support line.
Fuchs have one as do western oil but I have no idea where western oils come from
thanks for your advice. I will keep researching till I find out what the go is.
have you left for Uralla yet?
frank
Just don't know what time as we have a few things happening and it will depend on how they all pan out on Monday morning...
Why can't solicitors be like us farmers and work 24/7...lol
After hours at 250% plus, plus!!!
bluddy rich enough now I reckon not good to give em any more ideas.
but then I suppose you are in need ATM and you can't find one?
Is there a duty solicitor system at legal aid or somewhere that might be of some help?
travel safe when you do get on the road
frank
Its very simple Frank, I just need to sign some paperwork and I cant do it untill they open on Monday....
I have no problems with any Better brands of oil you should be able to get Penrite from you local spare parts shop and also Fuchs.
I find Supercheap to be Superdear on just about everything.
We are lucky here we not only have Supercheap and Repco we also have 2 independant parts suppliers..
Driving your vehicle with brand X will not give you 'apparent measureable difference'. However as Bob said there is a BIG difference. With modern vehicles which are highly tuned to conform with emissions and deliver performance, good quality oils have never been so critical. Foe the sake of a few more $$, it is cheap insurance. Same goes with diesel and fuel filters. Cheap insurance as opposed to having a hefty repair bill. 200 series Landcruiser 8 injectors and fuel pump.
Companies using big diesel or gas engines, where you are looking at a few hundred litres of oil, will get an oil analysis and based on the result will do an oil change. Obviously for these people it is cheaper to pay for oil analysis then replace the oil if not required. However, they also rely on good quality oil to see them thru what is an acceptable time frame between oil changes.
Larry
Agree with you John,,,, no problems here with Diesel anywhere so far,, use all brands,, hi flow/ low flow, and fill up out bush often to help small towns survive. Had problems with petrol though years ago but it was the servo not the supplier,,, dirty tank I suspect in Katherine (and I wasn't the only one either).