I have been looking at FOR SALES on the internet and the term demountable or relocatable appears. They appear to be inside van park type areas. So what do the terms mean? I know what a permanent van site is, but the term demountable or relocatable, seems to imply that is what is going to happen to the dwelling. But they are being advertised a a permanent place to live.
jetj said
08:44 PM Jan 8, 2014
The house was likely shipped there on a truck and could be shipped out the same way. People sell the house only either within the park or to be taken away. They own the building only, they don't own the land it sits on. However you could put a demountable on your own land.
Someone may be able to explain better.
-- Edited by jetj on Wednesday 8th of January 2014 08:47:33 PM
chopit said
09:09 PM Jan 8, 2014
Demountables & relocatables are manufactured in a factory.
Usually in 2 pieces that are joined together on site.
They can be moved to a new location but usually need a low loader, prime mover
& a oversize load permit & escort.
And as Jetj mentioned above.
By far the most common use is as a permanent dwelling & are rarely moved from
their first spot. The only times I have seen them for sale to be moved is when a
park is being shut down.
Up here in Qld. most relocatables are in "retirement Villages" or "over 50s parks".
They are usually so tightly packed in that the term "relocatable" becomes a moot point.
You own the dwelling but rent the land it sits on. Therefore, if you are on benefits
you can claim rent assistance while owning your home.( This applies for Qld. not sure
about elsewhere.)
Golddetectornomad said
12:27 AM Jan 9, 2014
Having sold Caravan Parks as a Business Broker be very wary if considering buying an established relocatable in a Caravan Park. The terms of your lease are of paramount importance, and should be shown to an independent Solicitor for advice/direction. On what basis is your occupancy..how are rentals determined and are future increases tied to inflation figures...and we all know how tricky dicky inflation figures can be.... Caravan Parks will/can never give you permanent residency status. Cartels/Trustee Company's etc now own many Parks. Decisions are made by Accountants who naturally maximise returns for their clients.
There are so many variables stacked against the Tenant, not the least of which is, if the Park changes hands, and the Park is bought by a Developer who is only interested in the location/land....My experience showed that Tenants are afforded very little protection by State Residential Tenancy Tribunals...
I have witnessed the appalling position folk who have considered themselves 'permanents' can find themselves in, when they are given notice to vacate the Park after having paid rental for many years, have a considerable investment in their 'temporary' structures ,which are rendered almost worthless and a liability to have to move cost wise, and find potential alternative sites which are naturally dwindling...as one Developer put to me with a steely business eye.."you go in on wheels and you go out on wheels..make sure the contract for Sale and Purchase excludes any permanents after six months while I obtain my development approvals...and they are to be issued notices of termination of their Tenancies..."......heartbreaking for those concerned and at the most vulnerable time of their lives....
I refer only to established or new 'relocatables' in Caravan Parks, as Legislative protection is generally afforded to residents of Retirement Villages etc....
I would never encourage a friend or relative to ""purchase/buy"" a relocatable in a Caravan Park as you effectively own nothing below the wheels.......its in your interest to obtain a lease that will protect you in every potential event, and likewise its in the owners interest to never provide you with that security so who has the whip hand to determine your future, which is out of your own control..........just my thoughts based on many years personal experience as a Certified Business Broker and former Bank Manager...even to obtain a Chattel Mortgage to buy/purchase the structure is difficult as Banks are well aware there is no landed security to offer.......Hoo Roo
arthur said
08:56 AM Jan 9, 2014
Thanks for the replies. I knew people on this forum would have good information to share.
littledick said
10:21 AM Jan 9, 2014
Demountables issued in NSW state schools when new buildings not viable or to cover excess students.
These are then relocated to other schools when required.
I know, I had to furnish them with the appropriate sizes and furniture type through my position in the Educ Dept many moons ago and also liaise with several manufactures. And yes, transported in several sections.
Don't know about the caravan park accomodation though but you did mention Demountables.
Dick.
-- Edited by littledick on Thursday 9th of January 2014 10:23:36 AM
NeilandRaine said
06:03 PM Jan 10, 2014
Golddetectornomad wrote:
Having sold Caravan Parks as a Business Broker be very wary if considering buying an established relocatable in a Caravan Park. The terms of your lease are of paramount importance, and should be shown to an independent Solicitor for advice/direction. On what basis is your occupancy..how are rentals determined and are future increases tied to inflation figures...and we all know how tricky dicky inflation figures can be.... Caravan Parks will/can never give you permanent residency status. Cartels/Trustee Company's etc now own many Parks. Decisions are made by Accountants who naturally maximise returns for their clients. There are so many variables stacked against the Tenant, not the least of which is, if the Park changes hands, and the Park is bought by a Developer who is only interested in the location/land....My experience showed that Tenants are afforded very little protection by State Residential Tenancy Tribunals... I have witnessed the appalling position folk who have considered themselves 'permanents' can find themselves in, when they are given notice to vacate the Park after having paid rental for many years, have a considerable investment in their 'temporary' structures ,which are rendered almost worthless and a liability to have to move cost wise, and find potential alternative sites which are naturally dwindling...as one Developer put to me with a steely business eye.."you go in on wheels and you go out on wheels..make sure the contract for Sale and Purchase excludes any permanents after six months while I obtain my development approvals...and they are to be issued notices of termination of their Tenancies..."......heartbreaking for those concerned and at the most vulnerable time of their lives.... I refer only to established or new 'relocatables' in Caravan Parks, as Legislative protection is generally afforded to residents of Retirement Villages etc.... I would never encourage a friend or relative to ""purchase/buy"" a relocatable in a Caravan Park as you effectively own nothing below the wheels.......its in your interest to obtain a lease that will protect you in every potential event, and likewise its in the owners interest to never provide you with that security so who has the whip hand to determine your future, which is out of your own control..........just my thoughts based on many years personal experience as a Certified Business Broker and former Bank Manager...even to obtain a Chattel Mortgage to buy/purchase the structure is difficult as Banks are well aware there is no landed security to offer.......Hoo Roo
A lot of what you say is believable and your experience comes from selling caravan parks and I resect your opinion, however I have managed a caravan park occupied mostly by permanents who own their own dwelling.
In NSW caravan park residents are protected by the Department of Fair Trading and under its umbrella the Residential Tribunal. I would advise anyone buying any type of housing either in a park or not that you should always approach the purchase with caution, buyer beware. Do your homework, find out about the managers, and THE OWNER. Find out if any future plans are being considered Always get a residential tenancy agreement, if the park does not have then forget about moving in. On the tenancy agreement always ask that any alterations or repairs that have to be done be noted. Other than these noted can only be done through negotiation.
It is law that any alterations to conditions, rent, rules etc. must be given with 60 days notice. Someone who is renting accommodation in a park has to be given 90 days notice of termination if there is no reason. The tenant has only got to give 14 days. To terminate someone under 90 days the owner must apply through the tribunal for a notice to evict and this is only possible if the tenant has constantly and consistently breached their tenancy agreement. If someone owns their own relocatable the only way to make them move out is through eviction and to be evicted they must breach the terms and conditions of their agreement. If a park is going to be redeveloped then the owner must relocate permanent residents to within 150 klms. Also if the park is to be sold for redevelopment it must be stated to all residents and they have avenues to oppose the redevelopment. The Oasis caravan park at Kanwal NSW is an example of how residents can stop development.
I am not naïve enough to think that shady operators do not exist, however most park owners should and can be trusted.
If you do your homework believe me as a tenant you have far more protection than you should ever need. Permanent usually means permanent. You have to pay site fees but you don't pay rates. you can get into a reasonable relocatable for around $100, try buying a house for that.
As well as checking out the owner it is also good to check out the type of tenants living in the park
Oh a demountable is something you find in a school, a relocatable is what you find in a caravan park. A registered caravan park is only allowed to have relocatable dwellings.
The tenant has far more protection than the owner
chopit said
10:52 PM Jan 10, 2014
Well put NielandRaine.Very much the same in Qld.
Many moons ago my Good Lady was a residential tenancy advocate
specialising in caravan & relocatable home parks.( that's a mouthful )
She was involved in the Qld Housing Commission buying
2 caravan parks that were destined for redevelopment.
They were an "experiment" in low cost housing.
Later she drafted the legislation for the current "act".
Long story short. Residents in caravan parks have
more security of tenure than the earlier act.
Resident owners in relocatable home parks are much better off.
As noted above, it takes fairly extreme circumstances to evict
a relocatable home owner from a relocatable home park.
Also as above, make sure the owner & manager of
any park you buy into are trustworthy.
As a footnote..
The 2 parks that the state government housing commission
bought are under threat of sale at the moment.
Just more assets the current Qld. government are trying to sell off.
The current mob seem determined to do whatever they want,
damn the effects on the average Joe.
Don't get me started !
Golddetectornomad said
12:27 AM Jan 11, 2014
I also respect what you say NeilandRaine, however I could drive a bull dozer through the real protection a tenant has in the long term as an occupier of a 'temporary structure' in a Caravan Park, notwithstanding the tenant may have placed it there in the first place...removing the wheels does not render it permanent.......if a Developer wants you out they will get you out....short of a Land Title I suggest no one can consider them selves 'permanents'...any Legislative protection afforded is for a limited period only......I've seen tenants given 6 months notice which for all intents and purposes seems reasonable but it is not, if you consider you would be able to live in your 'temporary' structure for the rest of your days.....
Current Park ownership should mean nothing in the decision as ownership can and do change hands..and in my experience the last thing any developer wants to hear is the word 'permanents'....or even the words the Park has a Permanent Housing Section within the Park.....it may look like a mini suburb of houses..but they , the tenants, can have no better Title than some sort of right to occupy...with finite term...
Of course tenants oppose any re-development however I have never seen any successful to date....particularly if you have a local Council salivating at the thought of another potential say 80 home ratepayers on the site....with salaries/remuneration I believe tied to numbers of ratepayers in the Council area...
If you rent a house property and have a rental agreement how could you ever consider yourself a permanent resident?...the fact a tenant owns a 'temporary' structure in a Caravan Park with some sort of agreement how does that, or how will it, ever give permanent residential status?....No Residential Tenancy Tribunal could ever rule for a tenants permanent right to occupy a site for life....
My advice is still to be very wary indeed of buying an established 'relocatable' or placing a new one on site in any Caravan Park.....unless as a retiree in a Retirement home Unit set up which are given Legislative protection for life as the site cannot be re-developed, and is registered on the Title as such....no such protection is registered on a Caravan Park Title that I'm aware of....how can a tenant ever be given better legal right to occupy than the owner after the Agreement terms have been met.....what owner would ever give a permanent right to occupy under any circumstances?.......
Gerty Dancer said
10:12 AM Jan 11, 2014
This happened in Canberra, in a van park fully tenanted with permanents... mostly in caravan/annexe style homes, a few in relocatables... there was legal action, the sale was deferred, the ACT Government got involved, and I think they either bought the place or rezoned it or something. Ultimately I think the developer bought other land nearby.. this is all a bit hazy in my memory. I clearly remember the stories of the soon-to-be-evicted tenants, there was no other affordable option for most of them, they had spent all their money on their current abode where some of them had lived for 20+years, and they were desperate.
Made up my mind at the time I'd never get involved in that kind of living, although it seems attractive, being fairly cheap, and having neighbors similar to yourself.
Evie n Rhys said
11:09 PM Apr 12, 2014
Thanks all, a can of worms here but I appreciate all of your input .
Tess
I have been looking at FOR SALES on the internet and the term demountable or relocatable appears. They appear to be inside van park type areas. So what do the terms mean? I know what a permanent van site is, but the term demountable or relocatable, seems to imply that is what is going to happen to the dwelling. But they are being advertised a a permanent place to live.
The house was likely shipped there on a truck and could be shipped out the same way. People sell the house only either within the park or to be taken away. They own the building only, they don't own the land it sits on. However you could put a demountable on your own land.
Someone may be able to explain better.
-- Edited by jetj on Wednesday 8th of January 2014 08:47:33 PM
Usually in 2 pieces that are joined together on site.
They can be moved to a new location but usually need a low loader, prime mover
& a oversize load permit & escort.
And as Jetj mentioned above.
By far the most common use is as a permanent dwelling & are rarely moved from
their first spot. The only times I have seen them for sale to be moved is when a
park is being shut down.
Up here in Qld. most relocatables are in "retirement Villages" or "over 50s parks".
They are usually so tightly packed in that the term "relocatable" becomes a moot point.
You own the dwelling but rent the land it sits on. Therefore, if you are on benefits
you can claim rent assistance while owning your home.( This applies for Qld. not sure
about elsewhere.)
There are so many variables stacked against the Tenant, not the least of which is, if the Park changes hands, and the Park is bought by a Developer who is only interested in the location/land....My experience showed that Tenants are afforded very little protection by State Residential Tenancy Tribunals...
I have witnessed the appalling position folk who have considered themselves 'permanents' can find themselves in, when they are given notice to vacate the Park after having paid rental for many years, have a considerable investment in their 'temporary' structures ,which are rendered almost worthless and a liability to have to move cost wise, and find potential alternative sites which are naturally dwindling...as one Developer put to me with a steely business eye.."you go in on wheels and you go out on wheels..make sure the contract for Sale and Purchase excludes any permanents after six months while I obtain my development approvals...and they are to be issued notices of termination of their Tenancies..."......heartbreaking for those concerned and at the most vulnerable time of their lives....
I refer only to established or new 'relocatables' in Caravan Parks, as Legislative protection is generally afforded to residents of Retirement Villages etc....
I would never encourage a friend or relative to ""purchase/buy"" a relocatable in a Caravan Park as you effectively own nothing below the wheels.......its in your interest to obtain a lease that will protect you in every potential event, and likewise its in the owners interest to never provide you with that security so who has the whip hand to determine your future, which is out of your own control..........just my thoughts based on many years personal experience as a Certified Business Broker and former Bank Manager...even to obtain a Chattel Mortgage to buy/purchase the structure is difficult as Banks are well aware there is no landed security to offer.......Hoo Roo
Thanks for the replies. I knew people on this forum would have good information to share.
Demountables issued in NSW state schools when new buildings not viable or to cover excess students.
These are then relocated to other schools when required.
I know, I had to furnish them with the appropriate sizes and furniture type through my position in the Educ Dept many moons ago and also liaise with several manufactures. And yes, transported in several sections.
Don't know about the caravan park accomodation though but you did mention Demountables.
Dick.
-- Edited by littledick on Thursday 9th of January 2014 10:23:36 AM
A lot of what you say is believable and your experience comes from selling caravan parks and I resect your opinion, however I have managed a caravan park occupied mostly by permanents who own their own dwelling.
In NSW caravan park residents are protected by the Department of Fair Trading and under its umbrella the Residential Tribunal. I would advise anyone buying any type of housing either in a park or not that you should always approach the purchase with caution, buyer beware. Do your homework, find out about the managers, and THE OWNER. Find out if any future plans are being considered Always get a residential tenancy agreement, if the park does not have then forget about moving in. On the tenancy agreement always ask that any alterations or repairs that have to be done be noted. Other than these noted can only be done through negotiation.
It is law that any alterations to conditions, rent, rules etc. must be given with 60 days notice. Someone who is renting accommodation in a park has to be given 90 days notice of termination if there is no reason. The tenant has only got to give 14 days. To terminate someone under 90 days the owner must apply through the tribunal for a notice to evict and this is only possible if the tenant has constantly and consistently breached their tenancy agreement. If someone owns their own relocatable the only way to make them move out is through eviction and to be evicted they must breach the terms and conditions of their agreement. If a park is going to be redeveloped then the owner must relocate permanent residents to within 150 klms. Also if the park is to be sold for redevelopment it must be stated to all residents and they have avenues to oppose the redevelopment. The Oasis caravan park at Kanwal NSW is an example of how residents can stop development.
I am not naïve enough to think that shady operators do not exist, however most park owners should and can be trusted.
If you do your homework believe me as a tenant you have far more protection than you should ever need. Permanent usually means permanent. You have to pay site fees but you don't pay rates. you can get into a reasonable relocatable for around $100, try buying a house for that.
As well as checking out the owner it is also good to check out the type of tenants living in the park
Oh a demountable is something you find in a school, a relocatable is what you find in a caravan park. A registered caravan park is only allowed to have relocatable dwellings.
The tenant has far more protection than the owner
Many moons ago my Good Lady was a residential tenancy advocate
specialising in caravan & relocatable home parks.( that's a mouthful )
She was involved in the Qld Housing Commission buying
2 caravan parks that were destined for redevelopment.
They were an "experiment" in low cost housing.
Later she drafted the legislation for the current "act".
Long story short. Residents in caravan parks have
more security of tenure than the earlier act.
Resident owners in relocatable home parks are much better off.
As noted above, it takes fairly extreme circumstances to evict
a relocatable home owner from a relocatable home park.
Also as above, make sure the owner & manager of
any park you buy into are trustworthy.
As a footnote..
The 2 parks that the state government housing commission
bought are under threat of sale at the moment.
Just more assets the current Qld. government are trying to sell off.
The current mob seem determined to do whatever they want,
damn the effects on the average Joe.
Don't get me started !
Current Park ownership should mean nothing in the decision as ownership can and do change hands..and in my experience the last thing any developer wants to hear is the word 'permanents'....or even the words the Park has a Permanent Housing Section within the Park.....it may look like a mini suburb of houses..but they , the tenants, can have no better Title than some sort of right to occupy...with finite term...
Of course tenants oppose any re-development however I have never seen any successful to date....particularly if you have a local Council salivating at the thought of another potential say 80 home ratepayers on the site....with salaries/remuneration I believe tied to numbers of ratepayers in the Council area...
If you rent a house property and have a rental agreement how could you ever consider yourself a permanent resident?...the fact a tenant owns a 'temporary' structure in a Caravan Park with some sort of agreement how does that, or how will it, ever give permanent residential status?....No Residential Tenancy Tribunal could ever rule for a tenants permanent right to occupy a site for life....
My advice is still to be very wary indeed of buying an established 'relocatable' or placing a new one on site in any Caravan Park.....unless as a retiree in a Retirement home Unit set up which are given Legislative protection for life as the site cannot be re-developed, and is registered on the Title as such....no such protection is registered on a Caravan Park Title that I'm aware of....how can a tenant ever be given better legal right to occupy than the owner after the Agreement terms have been met.....what owner would ever give a permanent right to occupy under any circumstances?.......
Made up my mind at the time I'd never get involved in that kind of living, although it seems attractive, being fairly cheap, and having neighbors similar to yourself.
Tess