Ok I am in my mid 50's and I have had enough of cities and houses and traffic etc etc.
So I am about to purchase second hand caravan had head off to start a new life adventure. The idea of camping out in a van is not a problem, as I have been heading bush on and off for years. I am single and plan on travelling that way. I have a married daughter in Melbourne whose house I will use as temporary home base when I need to. ( once or twice a year)
My plan is head off my the end of March 2014 and head for.... ?? In fact I really don't care where I head off to, just as long as I head off. My thought is free camp and then the occasional caravan park, to have a good clean up and restock etc. I will be in no hurry to get anywhere.
Thoghts I am having is:
what sort of weekly budget should I expect?
Is dealing with large trucks on the road a real worry?
do I really need to buy a van with a shower or am I happy with a bucket? (Between Caravan Parks)
Do I need a generator?
i know these don't sound like big concerns, but they are to me. Typically I have other questions as well, but they have slipped my memory for the moment. So any other general thoughts would be helpful.
I will look forward to meeting up with other nomads on the road.
Colin
mongrel said
07:54 AM Dec 18, 2013
Welcome to the forum Colin.I won't answer any of your questions myself but I am sure you will get a rush of answers ,The people on here are a very knowlegable lot and will give you all you need to know . Great people with great ideas..Alan,,
Dougwe said
08:23 AM Dec 18, 2013
Welcome from me too Colin, enjoy here and out in the playground.
If you haven't already, look into 12v and Solar Power as you won't regret it. A generator could be handy for those days when the sun is a bit shy. Shower and toilets? Your call really but I cope with camp toilet. A sponge down for a wash for about 10 days then like a shower or at least jump in a fresh water lake/river (No Soap). I actually use a liquid shower wash that contains no soap (you don't need much) for the sponge downs as you don't have to rinse. Washing cloths can be done in a bucket by hand using wool wash as no rinsing again, all important for minimal water use as you can't have unlimited water supplies on board.
Carry a vandal proof 4 sided water tap key with you and a "in-line" water filter with a small bit of hose attached so you can filter all water you get from taps.
I'm sure you will get great help and advice from others here so lap it up mate but at all times.........
jules47 said
08:49 AM Dec 18, 2013
Hi Colin and welcome to the site!!!!!
As to your questions -
your budget depends on how far you travel (fuel costs) and what foodstuffs, etc., you buy - if you are travelling in some remote parts of the country, food prices can be pretty high - we usually do a big shop in big towns - - we have a storage box to carry extra things like coffee, cereal, wraps, tin potatoes and soup etc. In my experience finding a decent brand of coffee, for instance, in some small places is almost impossible. We then spend money in these smaller towns on meat, vegetables and fruit etc.
Trucks - have found that they are mostly pretty good - they are big, and we have to respect that, they are also doing a job, while we are not working, so give them a bit of leeway - a UHF radio is a handy thing to have, you can talk to trucks - let them know you will get over when you can, to other travellers who are in a great rush. You will also hear about wide loads coming towards you - if you hear 4.4 Northbound at Timbuctoo for instance, you are aware they are in the area, and can look out for them, ready to move over when required.
Shower? usually vans with showers onboard are a bit bigger, so that is up to you - but you can buy a 12v plug in shower, a black solar shower bag, and even a shower tent - that is what a lot of people do - you just heat your water through the day in the solar shower bag and use that for showering or washing.
Generator? how do you propose to power your van? solar, portable or fixed on the roof? A generator is a very handy thing to have, even if you have solar, at times when it is pretty overcast or raining for several days, it will boost your batteries -a friend has a Coaster bus with good solar, but also carries a 1kva genny for such occasions.
There are other things - like laundry - we carry a 20l bucket, eucalyptus wool wash (Earth brand from supermarket about $2), and a paint stirrer, from Bunnys (a round disc with holes in it that fits on a long handle) - dirty clothes in, paint stirrer up and down for several minutes, wring out and hang out! No need to rinse with wool wash! Water saver!
As to water - make sure you carry fresh drinking water - some places only bore water is available, and it can be pretty unpleasant to drink. Water is one of the most important things to think about, in my opinion, we have been known to set out with an extra 30l of drinking water, and get back with that same water still on board, other times, we have filled and refilled the containers many times, when good water is available. This is on top of the water in your van tank.
Another thing - do you have a portable loo? Another thing to think about - and there are hundreds of others. A loo is important - if you read some of the posts re free camps etc, you will see that in SA for instance most of the camps do not have toilets - and there is nothing more disgusting than "bumwiperus plentii" floating all over a campsite!!!! Even worse, going for a walk and stepping in s h I t!!! With a loo, be aware of what chemicals you use, some are not able to be dumped at some spots - a good thing to use is "home brand" nappy or clothes soaker - available very cheaply from most national name supermarkets. There are numerous threads about this on this site.
Well - I have probably exhausted you - but hope it helps - get out there, enjoy your travelling, you could even head up here to Greens Lake (check out the Greens Lake sub forum on here) - meet up with some GN members who will be here for the next couple of weeks - we are very friendly and welcome newbies!!!!! (Greens is between Shepparton and Bendigo on the Midland Highway).
shekon said
09:09 AM Dec 18, 2013
Welcome Colin,
All the questions you have asked are up to your personal requirements, likes and dislikes, budget etc. I would however take Jules up on her suggestion on making a trip to Greens Lake. The people there are wonderful and well experienced in all things travelling around this wonderful country. I know I did this 12 months ago, took a bun and a camp chair and sat there for a couple of hours and learnt so much. I also use to stalk any motorhome or caravan I seen and asked questions. Have a look at downloading Wikicamps and see where the camp areas are around you and go and see if there are any people there. They will always speak to you and let you know what you should and should not be doing. Just remember to take your own chair and something to contribute to the conversation.
I did this for 2 years before hitting the road, then had 4 days at Greens and learnt so much more, of the practical stuff.
Have not had any problems with trucks on the road. Treat them with courtesy and the same as in a car, travel at a constant speed and they will either go around you or adjust until they can.
For me personally a shower and toilet was a must, but that is once again something only you can work out for yourself. Having said that I also have a solar water bag and 12v shower,(learnt that from Jules), so I can free camp a little longer.
The main thing is do what you feel comfortable with, research and research some more, take a leap of faith and then just go for it and love the life you are about to embark upon.
GaryKelly said
09:12 AM Dec 18, 2013
Can I get a word in now? Welcome, Colin. I agree with all of the above but I can also recommend visiting this forum daily for great information (as well as answers to any questions you may have). By the time March comes around, you'll be an expert - in theory anyway. Then it will become learning by experience.
Colchap said
10:31 AM Dec 18, 2013
Hi all
i real big thanks to those responders, and so quickly as well.
i certainly have learnt so more to store in my grey matter. I had also thought of checking out Green Lake and it seems as i had thought correctly, so keep out lookout for me up there in late March.
In regard to my query on trucks, what I was really concerned about was the caravans stability when being overtaken by one of the monsters. I was also very interested in the comments about solar power and batteries, I will have to some real digging to read more about it.
Again a big thanks to those who have posted already and I look forward to reading more.... So keep them coming.
i feel like a cat on a hot tin roof, and cannot wait to get started.
Colin
spida said
01:29 PM Dec 18, 2013
My 18' Jayco does not seem to be troubled by trucks passing and I don't have any bars attached. I do tend to make sure I slow down a bit and give them ample time and room to pass. UHF radio is great but only have hand help so can only talk to 'local' trucks - it is enough to hear the pilot talking when a really wide load is coming.
I would not be without shower/toilet when camping but tend to boil the jug, put water in a bucket and stand in the shower tipping water over myself for a rinse down. I tend to use the shower now when in CP's just to give it a 'run'.
A plastic barrel with a good screw on lid makes a washing machine -' travel motion' is the agitator.
Herb said
05:55 PM Dec 18, 2013
Hi and welcome, I like you are fairly new but had some good learning curves.
Trucks - slowdown and pull over as much as you can and most of all, MAKE SURE ALL WIDOWS AND HATCHES SECURE WHEN TRAVEL. We had one sucked out and when we got repaired felt like an idiot until the repair told us happens all the time. Check and check again was their advise. Also when we know trucks behind us we try and let them pass as soon as possible out of respect.
Water/showers - Like said above water will probably be most important thing to have. we always carry extra in containers and the other good thing about that is if you go into a town without the van you can fill them and bring back to fill the van. we have found some places reluctant to let you fill a caravan tanks but happy for you to fill a couple 25ltr containers. Also added to Doug list is a selection of hose fittings and a old push on shower fitting for those taps without screw ends.
Toilet - your call but we wouldn't do without it as going to toilet in middle of night out side reminds me to much of stories about men getting bitten by snakes lol. and the wife happier with own inside toilet incase of visitors.
Power/generator - as you are looking at heading off in March you need to consider the amount of days overcast and raining. We went through a winter traveling in victoria and then bought a generator. 2 kva as could run more than a 1kva without strain but still easy to carry. We got a honda as quieter than some other brands out there. We dont use much but its a nice to have. In summer it pretty much stays in the boot unless we want a fancy coffee. it will also run the aircon (before the geniuses tell me it wont, It does, I have done it)
Finance is an interesting one - free camps arent always that free. We allow about $400 per week but know from talking to others goes from $300 - $1000 depending on time on road. We allow for occasional meal out, visits to attractions, food, petrol. We always buy something form small shops in towns we stay near. What isnt included is cost like tax, insurance, registration, and holidays ( yes, holidays are important we think even tho we are traveling all the time.)
spida good idea for washing machine :)
Most of all I reckon is all advice is just advice, What you do with it makes it good or bad. decide whats good for you and be ready to make mistakes and laugh about it.
billeeeeeee said
10:31 AM Dec 19, 2013
Howdyeeeee Colin, one thing you need to do ,as I see it , get rid of that tie, not a good look ,,,heheheh welcome to the Nuttey Nomads,,,,,,,,,Billeeeeeee
I travel alone in a medium sized car and with a tent, and track where my money goes.
The first thing I can tell you is that the biggest factor in your expenditure will be how much driving you do, and the bigger and heavier your rig, the bigger a factor it's going to be. I've averaged about 350km a week over the past 18 months, and worked that out to around $17 a day including registration and insurance but excluding depreciation and cost-of-capital. Fuel at 8.4l/100km is about 40% of that. I imagine if you're towing a medium-sized van with a larger vehicle you could at least double that figure. A lower profile van (e.g. pop top or A-van) may be worth considering if you will be driving a lot, e.g. I met a couple with a diesel Mazda BT-50 and A-van who were doing 10.5l/100km.
Another big factor will be whether you're free camping or paying. I mostly free camp and have averaged around $3.60 per night over 18 months, which has included house-sits and stays with family and replacing a $150 tent every year. Paying for accommodation as a solo traveller can hurt because most places don't charge any less for one person than they do for two, or charge by vehicle regardless of how many people are in it.
Food is something you can probably figure out now if you pay attention to your spending. If you generally cook at home and do the same on the road then it'll probably be much the same as it is now. There are less opportunities to eat out when you're out in the bush, so if you're eating out a lot now, your food bill will likely fall. I'm averaging $11-12 a day on food. I also spend a similar amount on various bits and pieces ranging from haircuts to clothing to stove fuel.
For communications you'll need a Telstra Next-G compatible phone and for internet, a Next-G modem. Watching videos or making video calls are out unless you have very deep pockets.
Colchap wrote:
do I really need to buy a van with a shower or am I happy with a bucket? (Between Caravan Parks)
If you're even contemplating washing out of a bucket or using a portable outdoor shower, and are concerned about money, then you can seriously consider getting a smaller, lighter van that doesn't have a shower. I mostly wash out of a bucket and have become so accustomed to it that I don't pine for a shower, or count the days since I last had one. If it's cold I heat the water. Showers use much more water so if you can do without one you reduce the amount of water you have to find, haul and heat too.
Many nomads who remain on the road change rigs every few years as their needs and wants evolve. Some relatives of mine who travelled for seven years used four different vans over that time. If you start out with a used van you'll lose relatively little money if you sell it a year later having figured out what you really need and want.
Colchap wrote:
Do I need a generator?
To answer this question you'll need to have some idea of what your power consumption will be, and to what extent you want to invest in solar and battery capacity. You can definitely do without one if you want to, and if you can then it's less weight, capital, and maintenance, which you'd have to trade off against the consequences of not having it when you want it (e.g. switching off your fridge for a few days or driving to and paying for a powered site). It's the kind of thing I would start off without and see if I found myself needing it. My aforementioned relatives carried a generator but would go a year without using it.
-- Edited by moblet on Thursday 19th of December 2013 07:50:05 PM
elliemike said
05:10 PM Dec 20, 2013
The Avan Cruiseliner too small for a shower or toilet. We have a Porta Pottie but use it rarely.
This Last short trip we did, November 15 to last Friday we used the pottie and tent as we were set up for longer periods in National Parks and Free camps. It was handy then. I think its the most it has been used. Had to ponder hard, how to remove the cassette off for dumping. So long since it's last trip to a Dump Point.
When over the past years we have Hired Vans ( overseas and in Australia) The ones with a Shower toilet have been so awkward to actually shower in, that we never bothered using it. Other than an RV in the USA we hired. It was so big the Toilet and shower were in separate cubicles. The toilet was OK but the shower was still on the cramped side.
Just had friends from over east staying here with their smaller Motor home on a Nissan Navarra. I was interested to see and hear they never use the shower. It was used as the hang up wardrobe, and a place for the pota Pottie and Toilet tent storage.
We get by with a Bucket wash and a sponge, between Caravan parks. Neither of us have felt the need for a hand held shower allthough I can see how useful they are used in conjunction with a toilet tent.
If you go that way Get the bigger toilet/shower type tent. maybe the double.
A few of our camping mates use the Horticultural type Hand Pressure Pump(5 litre) Weed sprayer shoulder bottle. The one with a T handle like a Stirrup Pump. Modified to fit a shower head on a longer hose.
Boil a kettle of water, fill the bottle, temper it with cold water, and pressurise by pumping the handle, Have a demand type shower head with a trigger. Or use the original Weed spray gun supplied with the kit.
When you are looking at Caravans make sure you get in the shower. Close the door and do a dry shower mime. Then mime trying to dry yourself.
Regards and good luck
Mike
Colchap said
06:19 AM Dec 21, 2013
I'm amazed at the response to my Original post and have found the information that has been shared with me is invaluable.
I now have another question/s that I though of.
- I am a bit of an internet junkie, and realise that this will have to change when I start travelling. So I am wondering what is going to be affordable and reliable enough to satisfy my needs. I aware of free hotspots like that offered by the Golden Arches and I'm also familiar with the dongle type access. What are my other options?
I realise I am going to have to cut down my browsing... But to what level?
- I also would like to investigate the battery power in more detail, with solar/generator charging. Does anyone have a useful site that I can investigate for myself.
- as well as buying a caravan I am also planning on getting a better car than I have now. I have been drawn towards a ford falcon with dedicated LPG. Is this a good choice? I understand the lower economy rate. Or should I go for petrol only or duel fuel... Decisions, decisions ?
Cheers
Colin
Colchap said
06:53 AM Dec 21, 2013
Hmmm for those who didn't like the Tie (Billee) I have changed it. In the new pic I'm the bald one with the beard. The other character is my grandson Hunter. Although he is now 2yo and me...well let's just say I am older enough to go to a pub for a drink without being asked for ID.
shekon said
07:36 AM Dec 21, 2013
Colchap, as for the internet, I have a 4G dongle for my laptop and I have also a personal hotspot set up from my phone to my IPad, now how all this works I have no idea, as my techie son set it up, all I know is it works. As for being an internet junkie you may well find this changes once you are on the road. Don't have time, between the travelling, taking pics, talking to people and enjoying life itself. I have not updated my blog for the past couple of weeks as I just have not had time, too many people, too much sun to enjoy and getting on with life. The blog may get updated over the weekend as it is now cold and wet.
As for the motor vehicle stuff, I am not sure but there will be plenty that will let you know. I do know that I would be going diesel. Always available even in remote areas, gas is not. Diesel is more effecient also, having had a diesel car (Mondeo) in my previous life and now running a diesel MH.
I have one solar panel on the roof of my MH and I have not had to use the generator so far, it charges fully and I find that I do not use all that power. Not sure about the sites for this. Once again those with more experience and knowledge than I will let you know.
I think when I first started investigating this lifestyle, there was so much information that I almost got to the point where I did not think I would ever be able to do it, however once I decided what mode of transport I wanted and just concentrated on that and then went to the source it was easier. I have learnt heaps since being on the road and that is the best way I think. Greens Lake in invaluable for information. I am sure that there will many more things to learn and buy but for now I am all set.
I travel in a Wirraway Motorhome, on a Mercedes base.
Good luck with it all.
billeeeeeee said
09:07 AM Dec 21, 2013
Colchap wrote:
Hmmm for those who didn't like the Tie (Billee) I have changed it. In the new pic I'm the bald one with the beard. The other character is my grandson Hunter. Although he is now 2yo and me...well let's just say I am older enough to go to a pub for a drink without being asked for ID.
Howdyeeee Colin !!Now!! you are looking more like a Nomad, hehehehe hope to bump into you some where in the play ground....stay excited Col Billeeeeeee
- I am a bit of an internet junkie, and realise that this will have to change when I start travelling. So I am wondering what is going to be affordable and reliable enough to satisfy my needs. I aware of free hotspots like that offered by the Golden Arches and I'm also familiar with the dongle type access. What are my other options? I realise I am going to have to cut down my browsing... But to what level?
I'm a bit of an internet junkie too. We're out there. It's not all doom and gloom.
If you are roaming far and wide your only option for mobile broadband service is Telstra. Other carriers have cheaper rates and have rural service in some areas but don't have the breadth of coverage. You can either get a USB dongle or an independent device that acts as a wifi hub. If you will only ever access the internet from one computer at a time then the dongle is sufficient. If you have multiple devices or will have others with you seeking to access your connection then the wifi hub will likely be more suitable. If you buy them new they come with bonus data on a short expiry, and you may wish to time your purchase to take advantage of that.
No matter what the provider, you can either get a monthly plan or pre-paid. With pre-paid you pay by the megabyte. A monthly plan is only likely to work out cheaper if your data usage is very consistent and you utilise it every month. E.g. if you spend six weeks at your daughter's place and use her landline internet while there, a monthly plan will still cost you but pre-paid won't. I use pre-paid, but a monthly plan could impose discipline if you feel you need it.
It's going to come down to how much data your habits consume. Forums and general web sites don't use a great deal unless lots of high resolution images are involved. Audio streaming uses a moderate amount. Video streaming uses a lot (say around 20 cents per minute at the cheapest pre-paid rate) so I don't hang around places like YouTube. Software and OS updates can be big consumers too - I set my computer to inform me of updates but not to download them automatically, and I pick them up when I'm not paying by the megabyte. If your family is sending you lots of photos you may find yourself asking them to send smaller sized images, as many people send 2Mb+ photos that have way more resolution than necessary. My main data consumer is skype calling (audio only), which I can do a lot of, and my internet bill averages $2-3 a day.
Colchap wrote:
- I also would like to investigate the battery power in more detail, with solar/generator charging. Does anyone have a useful site that I can investigate for myself.
I can't point you at any sites, but as a primer, the basic components of power systems are:
Battery (or battery bank): Stores power. Most operate at a nominal 12V, although heavy vehicles, including some motorhomes, use 24V ones. You'll be looking for the ones labelled "deep cycle". Technologies include traditional lead-acid (flooded, AGM or gel) and the new kid on the block, LiFePO4. Their capacity is stated in amp-hours (Ah), and not all their stated capacity is usable or economic to use in practice, as their lifespan is reduced by deep discharging.
Solar panel: Converts light into electrical energy. Available in different voltages, and with different power outputs. Technologies include traditional rigid glass-covered ones, semi-flexible ones, and totally flexible ones that can be rolled up. Prices have been falling so fast that many people selling used ones are asking more than the cost of new.
Solar charge controller (a.k.a. regulator): Takes the output from solar panels and feeds it to batteries. MUST be used with lead-acid batteries to protect them from overcharging damage. Available in different voltages and current capacities. They can also regulate the load on the battery and shut off power when the battery is deeply discharged. You'll see some of them labelled PWM and others MPPT, but we won't go there now.
Generator: Converts chemical to mechanical to electrical energy. Available in different voltage and power output capacities, with two-stroke, four-stroke, and diesel motors, and with bells and whistles.
Battery charger: To use a generator efficiently you'll need a high-current battery charger, not the kind of trickle charger that everyone has in their garage. I know nothing about them other than that they cost hundreds of dollars.
Inverter: Converts DC battery power to AC mains-voltage power. Required to run 240V appliances off a 12V battery. Available in different power capacities. Some sensitive equipment requires the use of a "pure sine wave" type. Many appliances/adapters are available to run on 12V directly, including fridges, TV's, fans, lights, and laptops. Using 12V directly rather than through an inverter is more efficient, but 12V appliances are often much more expensive, especially fridges.
Just a note on fridges too - some nomads use the compressor type, which works the same way as a domestic fridge and can run only on electricity. It is efficient and used in solar setups. Others have "3-way" fridges that can run on LPG, 240V, or 12/24V. The latter type are not efficient enough to run on solar and are designed to be run on LPG while stationary.
Colchap wrote:
- as well as buying a caravan I am also planning on getting a better car than I have now. I have been drawn towards a ford falcon with dedicated LPG. Is this a good choice? I understand the lower economy rate. Or should I go for petrol only or duel fuel... Decisions, decisions ?
I'll second shekon. Diesel engines produce much more torque, which in layman's speak is "towing grunt". If I was buying a tug I'd be buying a diesel as it would make towing much more relaxed, not to mention much more economical. Diesel drivetrains have to be made more robust to cope with the higher torque, which means that they ought to be less susceptible to the additional stresses of towing too.
jules47 said
11:30 AM Dec 21, 2013
Love the new avatar colchap - much betterer!!!!!!!
johnq said
02:22 PM Dec 22, 2013
shekon wrote:
[snip]
I travel in a Wirraway Motorhome, on a Mercedes base.
Good luck with it all.
Nice units. Have you had a chance to work out your average fuel economy now that it is laden? What about the servicing costs? Assume 20,000km changes.
Thanks.
shekon said
07:14 PM Dec 22, 2013
Sent you a PM John, so not to hijack this thread.
johnq said
03:53 AM Dec 23, 2013
shekon wrote:
Sent you a PM John, so not to hijack this thread.
Thank you.
spida said
03:41 PM Dec 23, 2013
For your computer make sure you check what it needs to charge - I bought a 12v charger only to find I needed 19v - so had to buy another charger for the 12v plug in the van that has several different settings on it. have a 4G dongle - if you get Telstra phone you get internet mostly.
Colchap said
01:49 PM Dec 24, 2013
OMG so much help its great
I am interested in my soon to buy a secondhand tow vehicle and van. I am looking at van with a Tare 1000kg. I don't plan getting off road at all.
A mate who also tows a van has suggested a 4x4 turbo diesel vehicle, probably 3.0ltr. I will be travelling solo.
My original thought I was looking at a ford 4.1ltr ute on unleaded. I have been checking out vehicles and find that the 4x4 is going to be cost me than I really wanted to spend.
My mate has told me that his 4x4 gets about 11ltr/100km normal driving and upwards of 19ltr/100km all hitched up and loaded. From the information
I have found online a mid 2000's ford ute is going to give much the same in fuel usage. I understand that the diesel is going to give me greater torque but do I need it?
When it comes down to money. A ford ute is going to cost me considerably less than a 4x4. I have a budget of around 10k for a vehicle and the same for a van,
and I really don't want to spend more than that.
It's also worth noting that I find the ford option is a lot more comfortable to drive and also I would rather auto than manual.
What's everyone's thought?
Which way should go..... I am really favouring the Ford option, but I also value my mates opinion as well.
Colin
moblet said
02:56 PM Dec 24, 2013
Colchap wrote:
My mate has told me that his 4x4 gets about 11ltr/100km normal driving and upwards of 19ltr/100km all hitched up and loaded. From the information I have found online a mid 2000's ford ute is going to give much the same in fuel usage. I understand that the diesel is going to give me greater torque but do I need it?
Is your mate pulling a mere 1,000kg van or something bigger? I would have expected better economy figures than that.
I just had a bit of a look and if you're comparing a 6-cyl 4.1L Ford engine with a 3L or smaller turbo-diesel, the Ford doesn't stack up too badly on torque output, i.e. high 300's vs low to high 400's of Nm. Diesel engines produce more torque for the same engine size, but in this case you're comparing different sized engines, so the torque argument for the diesel isn't as strong as it would otherwise be. I'd be expecting the Falcon to use more fuel but maybe someone here has direct experience of towing with one.
From what I've found from a quick look it seems that running a Ford Falcon motor on LPG doesn't affect torque as badly as it affects power. Power loss is 20%, torque loss only 5%. So towing with the Falcon on LPG is looking like a handy option.
Colchap wrote:When it comes down to money. A ford ute is going to cost me considerably less than a 4x4. I have a budget of around 10k for a vehicle and the same for a van,
and I really don't want to spend more than that. It's also worth noting that I find the ford option is a lot more comfortable to drive and also I would rather auto than manual.
There are 2WD auto diesel utes available in your price range (e.g. Ssangyong and Mitsubishi Triton) but as you would rather drive the Ford ute, and their popularity means wide availability of parts and mechanics who know them along with plenty of used ones to choose from, I'd say go for that. If you find down the track that you'd prefer a different tug you won't lose much in the changeover anyway.
Colchap said
07:27 AM Dec 25, 2013
Thanks Mike I see the confusion I have caused now.
My mate is towing about 2100 all loaded up. And I am looking at around 1500 or so all loaded up.
I was originally thinking of a duel fuel ute. But I have noticed in few forums I have been reading
That LPG is fairly non existent in the out of the way places. So that was why I thought straight
Unleaded would be better.
I think one of my concerns is that I have never owned a deisel car before, so I am unfamiliar with
them and I am pretty handy around petrol engines.
So I gather from what's been said that in economy and dollar terms deisel is better. Although I would
Be interested in hearing of someone who is currently towing what I am planning in a falcon or similar
So that I can get a better grasp of costs.
Oh decision decisions it's just so confusing.
Colin
moblet said
10:19 AM Dec 25, 2013
No worries, you cause a lot less confusion than some because you do your own thinking and come to us with nicely specific questions. Here are some questions for you:
What's your definition of "out of the way"? Places like Charleville and Blackall in Qld carry LPG, so unless you're tackling the deep Outback you should be able to run LPG as much as you want. And if you were planning on tackling the deep Outback, you'd need to be looking at a tug and van with better rut clearance than what you're considering.
Does your handiness with petrol engines still apply after an LPG conversion?
How do LPG prices compare with diesel? They're normally around 60% aren't they? That gives you a huge amount of leeway to get poorer economy and still save money.
I also discovered yesterday that the Falcon would have more peak torque than a late-model 3L turbo diesel HiLux, though I don't know how delivery through the rev range compares. I suspect that an LPG Falcon may be a smart choice for your intended purpose and will be interested to see if anyone can turn up some numbers.
Back on the subject of the internet for a moment, Telstra has the widest coverage but it's by no means complete, and doesn't reach many camp spots, free or otherwise. That may either cure your internet addiction or constrain where you go.
moblet said
10:36 AM Dec 25, 2013
Colchap wrote:
So I gather from what's been said that in economy and dollar terms deisel is better.
Most of what's said on this subject is geared towards much larger and heavier rigs than what you're proposing. People with 2,400kg vans don't have the option of using a Ford one-tonner or everyday car as a tug as you do, they are limited to larger, heavier vehicles that are horrendously thirsty running on petrol, are available with diesel engines, and for which buying the diesel version is a better all-round option than LPG conversion. The sorts of options that are available to you - and which are far cheaper - are completely out of the question for them.
peterblack said
06:20 AM Dec 26, 2013
for years I towed a jayco finch with a 6cylinder Cortina on weekends holidays long service etc a mate done bits to suspension it was amazing the places we took this combo. the only thing that stopped it was the rust in the end plus boys wanted to do there own thing so sold the jayco. I used a tent swag or just a small tarp over the car etc. now my body needs a break so have been using cheap motels cabins.
beiffe said
08:06 AM Dec 26, 2013
Colcop I think you will find that after you start your trip you will find that the cost of fuel will pale into the distance.
Many of us decide our rigs on fuel economy and then find that the distance you travel means that fuel is not that important. My total distance traveled this year just missed getting to 6K and fuel (diesel) was $1554 so per week works out to $35.87 and I eat more than that.
I think you may find that Gas is not that economical when you consider the price difference and the loss of economy if I can believe many people I have met with gas. The say that per Klm the gas option was dearer so something to consider.
I like diesel as it is easy to get as if there are trucks in the area they need to sell diesel and it is less liable to be adulterated as you trend to buy where the trucks buy so get better diesel with less chance of water etc as it is turned over faster.
The best judge of what you want is you, but tend towards a heavier tug and get out and travel before you purchase all the trimmings as much you will not use and finish up discarding. Wait till you need something several times and then go looking as to pay just a bit more for something you need is better than getting an un needed item cheap and then have excess weight and finish up getting rid of it.
Many people don't use their toilets and showers and some do so that will be for you. A similar option is for cooking as some cook inside and use ovens and microwaves etc while some of us prefer to cook and live outside.
All my appliances are portable so I can use outside as I like to get outside and therefore cook my meals outside and usually eat outside. The only activities inside are sleeping and internet.
With the internet, Telstra is really your only option if you plan to be away from large cities and towns.
I use a household unit on 240v and this enables an aerial on the top of my bus for better signal, Many dongles don't allow for and external aerial so be sure to check for this option in anything you buy.
Regards
Brian
Colchap said
05:31 PM Dec 26, 2013
Ok I have been reading everyone's suggestions (again I say thanks heaps) and have done lots and lots more research and I have come to what I think is my final choice of a tow vehicle ...... Drum roll..... A falcon ute with duel fuel. Well at least I am almost made up my mind..... ROFL
The decision is based on me using LPG when I can and unleaded when I can't get LPG, or if I need a bit more power.
I am going view a few vehicles tomorrow at both ford utes and some Nissan and Mitsubishi 4x4.
I believe I should be able to get a good ford ute with about 150k use for about $8k or so, where a 4x4 that's older with around 220k of use will cost me a bit more than $10k. By getting the ford that will give me and extra $2k to use on LPG/ULP. And I really don't plan on driving much more 250km a week. So I reckon the budget is looking ok.
The next step is to locate a van with a good weight when all loaded up. Have found a few around $9k, but I will keep looking. And I will know the right one when I see it.
As far as going out of the way... I plan on basically staying on the bitumen.
Hi There fellow Nomads.
Ok I am in my mid 50's and I have had enough of cities and houses and traffic etc etc.
So I am about to purchase second hand caravan had head off to start a new life adventure. The idea of camping out in a van is not a problem, as I have been heading bush on and off for years. I am single and plan on travelling that way. I have a married daughter in Melbourne whose house I will use as temporary home base when I need to. ( once or twice a year)
My plan is head off my the end of March 2014 and head for.... ?? In fact I really don't care where I head off to, just as long as I head off. My thought is free camp and then the occasional caravan park, to have a good clean up and restock etc. I will be in no hurry to get anywhere.
Thoghts I am having is:
what sort of weekly budget should I expect?
Is dealing with large trucks on the road a real worry?
do I really need to buy a van with a shower or am I happy with a bucket? (Between Caravan Parks)
Do I need a generator?
i know these don't sound like big concerns, but they are to me. Typically I have other questions as well, but they have slipped my memory for the moment. So any other general thoughts would be helpful.
I will look forward to meeting up with other nomads on the road.
Colin
If you haven't already, look into 12v and Solar Power as you won't regret it. A generator could be handy for those days when the sun is a bit shy. Shower and toilets? Your call really but I cope with camp toilet. A sponge down for a wash for about 10 days then like a shower or at least jump in a fresh water lake/river (No Soap). I actually use a liquid shower wash that contains no soap (you don't need much) for the sponge downs as you don't have to rinse. Washing cloths can be done in a bucket by hand using wool wash as no rinsing again, all important for minimal water use as you can't have unlimited water supplies on board.
Carry a vandal proof 4 sided water tap key with you and a "in-line" water filter with a small bit of hose attached so you can filter all water you get from taps.
I'm sure you will get great help and advice from others here so lap it up mate but at all times.........
As to your questions -
your budget depends on how far you travel (fuel costs) and what foodstuffs, etc., you buy - if you are travelling in some remote parts of the country, food prices can be pretty high - we usually do a big shop in big towns - - we have a storage box to carry extra things like coffee, cereal, wraps, tin potatoes and soup etc. In my experience finding a decent brand of coffee, for instance, in some small places is almost impossible. We then spend money in these smaller towns on meat, vegetables and fruit etc.
Trucks - have found that they are mostly pretty good - they are big, and we have to respect that, they are also doing a job, while we are not working, so give them a bit of leeway - a UHF radio is a handy thing to have, you can talk to trucks - let them know you will get over when you can, to other travellers who are in a great rush. You will also hear about wide loads coming towards you - if you hear 4.4 Northbound at Timbuctoo for instance, you are aware they are in the area, and can look out for them, ready to move over when required.
Shower? usually vans with showers onboard are a bit bigger, so that is up to you - but you can buy a 12v plug in shower, a black solar shower bag, and even a shower tent - that is what a lot of people do - you just heat your water through the day in the solar shower bag and use that for showering or washing.
Generator? how do you propose to power your van? solar, portable or fixed on the roof? A generator is a very handy thing to have, even if you have solar, at times when it is pretty overcast or raining for several days, it will boost your batteries -a friend has a Coaster bus with good solar, but also carries a 1kva genny for such occasions.
There are other things - like laundry - we carry a 20l bucket, eucalyptus wool wash (Earth brand from supermarket about $2), and a paint stirrer, from Bunnys (a round disc with holes in it that fits on a long handle) - dirty clothes in, paint stirrer up and down for several minutes, wring out and hang out! No need to rinse with wool wash! Water saver!
As to water - make sure you carry fresh drinking water - some places only bore water is available, and it can be pretty unpleasant to drink. Water is one of the most important things to think about, in my opinion, we have been known to set out with an extra 30l of drinking water, and get back with that same water still on board, other times, we have filled and refilled the containers many times, when good water is available. This is on top of the water in your van tank.
Another thing - do you have a portable loo? Another thing to think about - and there are hundreds of others. A loo is important - if you read some of the posts re free camps etc, you will see that in SA for instance most of the camps do not have toilets - and there is nothing more disgusting than "bumwiperus plentii" floating all over a campsite!!!! Even worse, going for a walk and stepping in s h I t!!! With a loo, be aware of what chemicals you use, some are not able to be dumped at some spots - a good thing to use is "home brand" nappy or clothes soaker - available very cheaply from most national name supermarkets. There are numerous threads about this on this site.
Well - I have probably exhausted you - but hope it helps - get out there, enjoy your travelling, you could even head up here to Greens Lake (check out the Greens Lake sub forum on here) - meet up with some GN members who will be here for the next couple of weeks - we are very friendly and welcome newbies!!!!! (Greens is between Shepparton and Bendigo on the Midland Highway).
All the questions you have asked are up to your personal requirements, likes and dislikes, budget etc. I would however take Jules up on her suggestion on making a trip to Greens Lake. The people there are wonderful and well experienced in all things travelling around this wonderful country. I know I did this 12 months ago, took a bun and a camp chair and sat there for a couple of hours and learnt so much. I also use to stalk any motorhome or caravan I seen and asked questions. Have a look at downloading Wikicamps and see where the camp areas are around you and go and see if there are any people there. They will always speak to you and let you know what you should and should not be doing. Just remember to take your own chair and something to contribute to the conversation.
I did this for 2 years before hitting the road, then had 4 days at Greens and learnt so much more, of the practical stuff.
Have not had any problems with trucks on the road. Treat them with courtesy and the same as in a car, travel at a constant speed and they will either go around you or adjust until they can.
For me personally a shower and toilet was a must, but that is once again something only you can work out for yourself. Having said that I also have a solar water bag and 12v shower,(learnt that from Jules), so I can free camp a little longer.
The main thing is do what you feel comfortable with, research and research some more, take a leap of faith and then just go for it and love the life you are about to embark upon.
Hi all
i real big thanks to those responders, and so quickly as well.
i certainly have learnt so more to store in my grey matter. I had also thought of checking out Green Lake and it seems as i had thought correctly, so keep out lookout for me up there in late March.
In regard to my query on trucks, what I was really concerned about was the caravans stability when being overtaken by one of the monsters. I was also very interested in the comments about solar power and batteries, I will have to some real digging to read more about it.
Again a big thanks to those who have posted already and I look forward to reading more.... So keep them coming.
i feel like a cat on a hot tin roof, and cannot wait to get started.
Colin
I would not be without shower/toilet when camping but tend to boil the jug, put water in a bucket and stand in the shower tipping water over myself for a rinse down. I tend to use the shower now when in CP's just to give it a 'run'.
A plastic barrel with a good screw on lid makes a washing machine -' travel motion' is the agitator.
Trucks - slowdown and pull over as much as you can and most of all, MAKE SURE ALL WIDOWS AND HATCHES SECURE WHEN TRAVEL. We had one sucked out and when we got repaired felt like an idiot until the repair told us happens all the time. Check and check again was their advise. Also when we know trucks behind us we try and let them pass as soon as possible out of respect.
Water/showers - Like said above water will probably be most important thing to have. we always carry extra in containers and the other good thing about that is if you go into a town without the van you can fill them and bring back to fill the van. we have found some places reluctant to let you fill a caravan tanks but happy for you to fill a couple 25ltr containers. Also added to Doug list is a selection of hose fittings and a old push on shower fitting for those taps without screw ends.
Toilet - your call but we wouldn't do without it as going to toilet in middle of night out side reminds me to much of stories about men getting bitten by snakes lol. and the wife happier with own inside toilet incase of visitors.
Power/generator - as you are looking at heading off in March you need to consider the amount of days overcast and raining. We went through a winter traveling in victoria and then bought a generator. 2 kva as could run more than a 1kva without strain but still easy to carry. We got a honda as quieter than some other brands out there. We dont use much but its a nice to have. In summer it pretty much stays in the boot unless we want a fancy coffee. it will also run the aircon (before the geniuses tell me it wont, It does, I have done it)
Finance is an interesting one - free camps arent always that free. We allow about $400 per week but know from talking to others goes from $300 - $1000 depending on time on road. We allow for occasional meal out, visits to attractions, food, petrol. We always buy something form small shops in towns we stay near. What isnt included is cost like tax, insurance, registration, and holidays ( yes, holidays are important we think even tho we are traveling all the time.)
spida good idea for washing machine :)
Most of all I reckon is all advice is just advice, What you do with it makes it good or bad. decide whats good for you and be ready to make mistakes and laugh about it.
Howdyeeeee Colin, one thing you need to do ,as I see it , get rid of that tie, not a good look ,,,heheheh welcome to the Nuttey Nomads,,,,,,,,,Billeeeeeee
Welcome!
I travel alone in a medium sized car and with a tent, and track where my money goes.
The first thing I can tell you is that the biggest factor in your expenditure will be how much driving you do, and the bigger and heavier your rig, the bigger a factor it's going to be. I've averaged about 350km a week over the past 18 months, and worked that out to around $17 a day including registration and insurance but excluding depreciation and cost-of-capital. Fuel at 8.4l/100km is about 40% of that. I imagine if you're towing a medium-sized van with a larger vehicle you could at least double that figure. A lower profile van (e.g. pop top or A-van) may be worth considering if you will be driving a lot, e.g. I met a couple with a diesel Mazda BT-50 and A-van who were doing 10.5l/100km.
Another big factor will be whether you're free camping or paying. I mostly free camp and have averaged around $3.60 per night over 18 months, which has included house-sits and stays with family and replacing a $150 tent every year. Paying for accommodation as a solo traveller can hurt because most places don't charge any less for one person than they do for two, or charge by vehicle regardless of how many people are in it.
Food is something you can probably figure out now if you pay attention to your spending. If you generally cook at home and do the same on the road then it'll probably be much the same as it is now. There are less opportunities to eat out when you're out in the bush, so if you're eating out a lot now, your food bill will likely fall. I'm averaging $11-12 a day on food. I also spend a similar amount on various bits and pieces ranging from haircuts to clothing to stove fuel.
For communications you'll need a Telstra Next-G compatible phone and for internet, a Next-G modem. Watching videos or making video calls are out unless you have very deep pockets.
If you're even contemplating washing out of a bucket or using a portable outdoor shower, and are concerned about money, then you can seriously consider getting a smaller, lighter van that doesn't have a shower. I mostly wash out of a bucket and have become so accustomed to it that I don't pine for a shower, or count the days since I last had one. If it's cold I heat the water. Showers use much more water so if you can do without one you reduce the amount of water you have to find, haul and heat too.
Many nomads who remain on the road change rigs every few years as their needs and wants evolve. Some relatives of mine who travelled for seven years used four different vans over that time. If you start out with a used van you'll lose relatively little money if you sell it a year later having figured out what you really need and want.
To answer this question you'll need to have some idea of what your power consumption will be, and to what extent you want to invest in solar and battery capacity. You can definitely do without one if you want to, and if you can then it's less weight, capital, and maintenance, which you'd have to trade off against the consequences of not having it when you want it (e.g. switching off your fridge for a few days or driving to and paying for a powered site). It's the kind of thing I would start off without and see if I found myself needing it. My aforementioned relatives carried a generator but would go a year without using it.
-- Edited by moblet on Thursday 19th of December 2013 07:50:05 PM
The Avan Cruiseliner too small for a shower or toilet. We have a Porta Pottie but use it rarely.
This Last short trip we did, November 15 to last Friday we used the pottie and tent as we were set up for longer periods in National Parks and Free camps. It was handy then. I think its the most it has been used. Had to ponder hard, how to remove the cassette off for dumping. So long since it's last trip to a Dump Point.
When over the past years we have Hired Vans ( overseas and in Australia) The ones with a Shower toilet have been so awkward to actually shower in, that we never bothered using it. Other than an RV in the USA we hired. It was so big the Toilet and shower were in separate cubicles. The toilet was OK but the shower was still on the cramped side.
Just had friends from over east staying here with their smaller Motor home on a Nissan Navarra. I was interested to see and hear they never use the shower. It was used as the hang up wardrobe, and a place for the pota Pottie and Toilet tent storage.
We get by with a Bucket wash and a sponge, between Caravan parks. Neither of us have felt the need for a hand held shower allthough I can see how useful they are used in conjunction with a toilet tent.
If you go that way Get the bigger toilet/shower type tent. maybe the double.
A few of our camping mates use the Horticultural type Hand Pressure Pump (5 litre) Weed sprayer shoulder bottle. The one with a T handle like a Stirrup Pump. Modified to fit a shower head on a longer hose.
Boil a kettle of water, fill the bottle, temper it with cold water, and pressurise by pumping the handle, Have a demand type shower head with a trigger. Or use the original Weed spray gun supplied with the kit.
When you are looking at Caravans make sure you get in the shower. Close the door and do a dry shower mime. Then mime trying to dry yourself.
Regards and good luck
Mike
I now have another question/s that I though of.
- I am a bit of an internet junkie, and realise that this will have to change when I start travelling. So I am wondering what is going to be affordable and reliable enough to satisfy my needs. I aware of free hotspots like that offered by the Golden Arches and I'm also familiar with the dongle type access. What are my other options?
I realise I am going to have to cut down my browsing... But to what level?
- I also would like to investigate the battery power in more detail, with solar/generator charging. Does anyone have a useful site that I can investigate for myself.
- as well as buying a caravan I am also planning on getting a better car than I have now. I have been drawn towards a ford falcon with dedicated LPG. Is this a good choice? I understand the lower economy rate. Or should I go for petrol only or duel fuel... Decisions, decisions ?
Cheers
Colin
As for the motor vehicle stuff, I am not sure but there will be plenty that will let you know. I do know that I would be going diesel. Always available even in remote areas, gas is not. Diesel is more effecient also, having had a diesel car (Mondeo) in my previous life and now running a diesel MH.
I have one solar panel on the roof of my MH and I have not had to use the generator so far, it charges fully and I find that I do not use all that power. Not sure about the sites for this. Once again those with more experience and knowledge than I will let you know.
I think when I first started investigating this lifestyle, there was so much information that I almost got to the point where I did not think I would ever be able to do it, however once I decided what mode of transport I wanted and just concentrated on that and then went to the source it was easier. I have learnt heaps since being on the road and that is the best way I think. Greens Lake in invaluable for information. I am sure that there will many more things to learn and buy but for now I am all set.
I travel in a Wirraway Motorhome, on a Mercedes base.
Good luck with it all.
Howdyeeee Colin !!Now!! you are looking more like a Nomad, hehehehe hope to bump into you some where in the play ground....stay excited Col Billeeeeeee
I'm a bit of an internet junkie too. We're out there. It's not all doom and gloom.
If you are roaming far and wide your only option for mobile broadband service is Telstra. Other carriers have cheaper rates and have rural service in some areas but don't have the breadth of coverage. You can either get a USB dongle or an independent device that acts as a wifi hub. If you will only ever access the internet from one computer at a time then the dongle is sufficient. If you have multiple devices or will have others with you seeking to access your connection then the wifi hub will likely be more suitable. If you buy them new they come with bonus data on a short expiry, and you may wish to time your purchase to take advantage of that.
No matter what the provider, you can either get a monthly plan or pre-paid. With pre-paid you pay by the megabyte. A monthly plan is only likely to work out cheaper if your data usage is very consistent and you utilise it every month. E.g. if you spend six weeks at your daughter's place and use her landline internet while there, a monthly plan will still cost you but pre-paid won't. I use pre-paid, but a monthly plan could impose discipline if you feel you need it.
It's going to come down to how much data your habits consume. Forums and general web sites don't use a great deal unless lots of high resolution images are involved. Audio streaming uses a moderate amount. Video streaming uses a lot (say around 20 cents per minute at the cheapest pre-paid rate) so I don't hang around places like YouTube. Software and OS updates can be big consumers too - I set my computer to inform me of updates but not to download them automatically, and I pick them up when I'm not paying by the megabyte. If your family is sending you lots of photos you may find yourself asking them to send smaller sized images, as many people send 2Mb+ photos that have way more resolution than necessary. My main data consumer is skype calling (audio only), which I can do a lot of, and my internet bill averages $2-3 a day.
I can't point you at any sites, but as a primer, the basic components of power systems are:
Battery (or battery bank): Stores power. Most operate at a nominal 12V, although heavy vehicles, including some motorhomes, use 24V ones. You'll be looking for the ones labelled "deep cycle". Technologies include traditional lead-acid (flooded, AGM or gel) and the new kid on the block, LiFePO4. Their capacity is stated in amp-hours (Ah), and not all their stated capacity is usable or economic to use in practice, as their lifespan is reduced by deep discharging.
Solar panel: Converts light into electrical energy. Available in different voltages, and with different power outputs. Technologies include traditional rigid glass-covered ones, semi-flexible ones, and totally flexible ones that can be rolled up. Prices have been falling so fast that many people selling used ones are asking more than the cost of new.
Solar charge controller (a.k.a. regulator): Takes the output from solar panels and feeds it to batteries. MUST be used with lead-acid batteries to protect them from overcharging damage. Available in different voltages and current capacities. They can also regulate the load on the battery and shut off power when the battery is deeply discharged. You'll see some of them labelled PWM and others MPPT, but we won't go there now.
Generator: Converts chemical to mechanical to electrical energy. Available in different voltage and power output capacities, with two-stroke, four-stroke, and diesel motors, and with bells and whistles.
Battery charger: To use a generator efficiently you'll need a high-current battery charger, not the kind of trickle charger that everyone has in their garage. I know nothing about them other than that they cost hundreds of dollars.
Inverter: Converts DC battery power to AC mains-voltage power. Required to run 240V appliances off a 12V battery. Available in different power capacities. Some sensitive equipment requires the use of a "pure sine wave" type. Many appliances/adapters are available to run on 12V directly, including fridges, TV's, fans, lights, and laptops. Using 12V directly rather than through an inverter is more efficient, but 12V appliances are often much more expensive, especially fridges.
Just a note on fridges too - some nomads use the compressor type, which works the same way as a domestic fridge and can run only on electricity. It is efficient and used in solar setups. Others have "3-way" fridges that can run on LPG, 240V, or 12/24V. The latter type are not efficient enough to run on solar and are designed to be run on LPG while stationary.
I'll second shekon. Diesel engines produce much more torque, which in layman's speak is "towing grunt". If I was buying a tug I'd be buying a diesel as it would make towing much more relaxed, not to mention much more economical. Diesel drivetrains have to be made more robust to cope with the higher torque, which means that they ought to be less susceptible to the additional stresses of towing too.
Nice units. Have you had a chance to work out your average fuel economy now that it is laden? What about the servicing costs? Assume 20,000km changes.
Thanks.
Thank you.
I am interested in my soon to buy a secondhand tow vehicle and van. I am looking at van with a Tare 1000kg. I don't plan getting off road at all.
A mate who also tows a van has suggested a 4x4 turbo diesel vehicle, probably 3.0ltr. I will be travelling solo.
My original thought I was looking at a ford 4.1ltr ute on unleaded. I have been checking out vehicles and find that the 4x4 is going to be cost me than I really wanted to spend.
My mate has told me that his 4x4 gets about 11ltr/100km normal driving and upwards of 19ltr/100km all hitched up and loaded. From the information
I have found online a mid 2000's ford ute is going to give much the same in fuel usage. I understand that the diesel is going to give me greater torque but do I need it?
When it comes down to money. A ford ute is going to cost me considerably less than a 4x4. I have a budget of around 10k for a vehicle and the same for a van,
and I really don't want to spend more than that.
It's also worth noting that I find the ford option is a lot more comfortable to drive and also I would rather auto than manual.
What's everyone's thought?
Which way should go..... I am really favouring the Ford option, but I also value my mates opinion as well.
Colin
Is your mate pulling a mere 1,000kg van or something bigger? I would have expected better economy figures than that.
I just had a bit of a look and if you're comparing a 6-cyl 4.1L Ford engine with a 3L or smaller turbo-diesel, the Ford doesn't stack up too badly on torque output, i.e. high 300's vs low to high 400's of Nm. Diesel engines produce more torque for the same engine size, but in this case you're comparing different sized engines, so the torque argument for the diesel isn't as strong as it would otherwise be. I'd be expecting the Falcon to use more fuel but maybe someone here has direct experience of towing with one.
From what I've found from a quick look it seems that running a Ford Falcon motor on LPG doesn't affect torque as badly as it affects power. Power loss is 20%, torque loss only 5%. So towing with the Falcon on LPG is looking like a handy option.
There are 2WD auto diesel utes available in your price range (e.g. Ssangyong and Mitsubishi Triton) but as you would rather drive the Ford ute, and their popularity means wide availability of parts and mechanics who know them along with plenty of used ones to choose from, I'd say go for that. If you find down the track that you'd prefer a different tug you won't lose much in the changeover anyway.
My mate is towing about 2100 all loaded up. And I am looking at around 1500 or so all loaded up.
I was originally thinking of a duel fuel ute. But I have noticed in few forums I have been reading
That LPG is fairly non existent in the out of the way places. So that was why I thought straight
Unleaded would be better.
I think one of my concerns is that I have never owned a deisel car before, so I am unfamiliar with
them and I am pretty handy around petrol engines.
So I gather from what's been said that in economy and dollar terms deisel is better. Although I would
Be interested in hearing of someone who is currently towing what I am planning in a falcon or similar
So that I can get a better grasp of costs.
Oh decision decisions it's just so confusing.
Colin
No worries, you cause a lot less confusion than some because you do your own thinking and come to us with nicely specific questions. Here are some questions for you:
What's your definition of "out of the way"? Places like Charleville and Blackall in Qld carry LPG, so unless you're tackling the deep Outback you should be able to run LPG as much as you want. And if you were planning on tackling the deep Outback, you'd need to be looking at a tug and van with better rut clearance than what you're considering.
Does your handiness with petrol engines still apply after an LPG conversion?
How do LPG prices compare with diesel? They're normally around 60% aren't they? That gives you a huge amount of leeway to get poorer economy and still save money.
I also discovered yesterday that the Falcon would have more peak torque than a late-model 3L turbo diesel HiLux, though I don't know how delivery through the rev range compares. I suspect that an LPG Falcon may be a smart choice for your intended purpose and will be interested to see if anyone can turn up some numbers.
Back on the subject of the internet for a moment, Telstra has the widest coverage but it's by no means complete, and doesn't reach many camp spots, free or otherwise. That may either cure your internet addiction or constrain where you go.
Most of what's said on this subject is geared towards much larger and heavier rigs than what you're proposing. People with 2,400kg vans don't have the option of using a Ford one-tonner or everyday car as a tug as you do, they are limited to larger, heavier vehicles that are horrendously thirsty running on petrol, are available with diesel engines, and for which buying the diesel version is a better all-round option than LPG conversion. The sorts of options that are available to you - and which are far cheaper - are completely out of the question for them.
Many of us decide our rigs on fuel economy and then find that the distance you travel means that fuel is not that important. My total distance traveled this year just missed getting to 6K and fuel (diesel) was $1554 so per week works out to $35.87 and I eat more than that.
I think you may find that Gas is not that economical when you consider the price difference and the loss of economy if I can believe many people I have met with gas. The say that per Klm the gas option was dearer so something to consider.
I like diesel as it is easy to get as if there are trucks in the area they need to sell diesel and it is less liable to be adulterated as you trend to buy where the trucks buy so get better diesel with less chance of water etc as it is turned over faster.
The best judge of what you want is you, but tend towards a heavier tug and get out and travel before you purchase all the trimmings as much you will not use and finish up discarding. Wait till you need something several times and then go looking as to pay just a bit more for something you need is better than getting an un needed item cheap and then have excess weight and finish up getting rid of it.
Many people don't use their toilets and showers and some do so that will be for you. A similar option is for cooking as some cook inside and use ovens and microwaves etc while some of us prefer to cook and live outside.
All my appliances are portable so I can use outside as I like to get outside and therefore cook my meals outside and usually eat outside. The only activities inside are sleeping and internet.
With the internet, Telstra is really your only option if you plan to be away from large cities and towns.
I use a household unit on 240v and this enables an aerial on the top of my bus for better signal, Many dongles don't allow for and external aerial so be sure to check for this option in anything you buy.
Regards
Brian
The decision is based on me using LPG when I can and unleaded when I can't get LPG, or if I need a bit more power.
I am going view a few vehicles tomorrow at both ford utes and some Nissan and Mitsubishi 4x4.
I believe I should be able to get a good ford ute with about 150k use for about $8k or so, where a 4x4 that's older with around 220k of use will cost me a bit more than $10k. By getting the ford that will give me and extra $2k to use on LPG/ULP. And I really don't plan on driving much more 250km a week. So I reckon the budget is looking ok.
The next step is to locate a van with a good weight when all loaded up. Have found a few around $9k, but I will keep looking. And I will know the right one when I see it.
As far as going out of the way... I plan on basically staying on the bitumen.
Colin