I hope some one can give advice as nothing forth coming from Toyota.
i have a Coaster 1987 fitted with exhaust Brakes. On purchase they were not working. I have serviced and replaced.
the actuator is working well with no leaks. There are no exhaust leaks before the unit.
could some one tell me if the unit should have the actuator next to the gear box or out to the near side of the vehicle.
the unit is working but with very poor results.
Gadge
native pepper said
06:50 AM Dec 12, 2013
You should be able to adjust the actuator, what sort of performance were you expecting. Exhaust brakes only improve braking ability by restricting exhaust gas from escaping and creating back pressure in the cylinders. You have to have a certain amount of gas escape, or you could cause internal damage with large pressure build up. As a rough rule, they should increase your braking power by about 20-25%.
Practice driving your bus round to get used to how much assistance you get and how to use it properly, if you can adjust it, you'll be able to try different settings. When you come to a stop with the engine brake on, you should only lose a couple of hundred revs, compared to when not using it. Do you have a switch to shut if of and on, as many places take a dim view of engine brake use in their towns etc.
PeterD said
09:43 AM Dec 12, 2013
native pepper wrote:
Do you have a switch to shut if of and on, as many places take a dim view of engine brake use in their towns etc.
I thought it was the Jacob's type braking that was the noise problem, not the ones in the exhaust pipe.
Olley46 said
10:01 AM Dec 12, 2013
PeterD wrote:
native pepper wrote:
Do you have a switch to shut if of and on, as many places take a dim view of engine brake use in their towns etc.
I thought it was the Jacob's type braking that was the noise problem, not the ones in the exhaust pipe.
Your right PeterD the exhaust brake you can hardly hear just a bit of air hissing, the Jacob brake is the noisy one, x truckie.
lance c
native pepper said
10:36 AM Dec 12, 2013
Olley46 wrote:
PeterD wrote:
native pepper wrote:
Do you have a switch to shut if of and on, as many places take a dim view of engine brake use in their towns etc.
I thought it was the Jacob's type braking that was the noise problem, not the ones in the exhaust pipe.
Your right PeterD the exhaust brake you can hardly hear just a bit of air hissing, the Jacob brake is the noisy one, x truckie.
lance c
Yes engine brakes do make the most noise, but have been spoken to on a number of occasions over the years because we've used an exhaust brake in town precincts. You don't notice them in urban area's, as unbearable soul destroying never ending noise is all you get in cities, but in outback country towns which are very quiet places, an exhaust brake does make noise.
It matters not to me whether it is a lot of noise or a little, as we are guests in their town, we heed their comments and switch of the exhaust brake when entering any town, just to be on the safe side.
Considering the amount of travel we do, we alway respect the wishes of locals and they are always grateful and helpful. Sadly some urban travellers tend not to see things from a local point of view, they believe their urban approach is acceptable anywhere and act in that manner.
Gadge said
12:05 PM Dec 12, 2013
Firstly, thank you for all your comments! However, nothing any of you have spoken about is remotely relevant to my question!
I thought my question was fairly str8t forward!
It is factory fitted so yes it does have a switch, in fact it has three!
One on the steering column, one on the clutch and one on the throttle.
It even has a device that stops it operating at idle!
It is no way, or could not be associated with jake brakes!
Jake brakes are engine brakes! In short they stop the vales from expelling exhaust gas from the motor, thus slowing the vehicle down, very efficient. Except for the noise, this is what the towns people get crapy about.
Exhaust brakes are just that! They brake the exhaust, that means slow it up from leaving the engine and manifold, thus, slowing the motor because the exhaust is restricted.
Exhaust brakes are fitted to most commercial vehicles over 2 T and used every day in suburbia and towns all over the country, mostly un audible!
Now, we have had a lesion in how these brakes work.
With respect, the comments posted have Nothing, Zero, Didally Squat to do with the question I asked.
I am a professional driver with many years experience working on heavy vehicles and do know how efficiently they should work.
The question to all you good people was, is the unit fitted with the actuator to the gearbox side or the near side.
If you can answer this please do, but not interested in dribble.
Some one must have or know someone that does have one of these vehicles!
Could you please look underneath and let me know.
Thanks, Gadge
the ginger nomad said
12:20 PM Dec 12, 2013
Settle petal,there is no need to fire off like that.you probably won't recieve any help now!
native pepper said
12:32 PM Dec 12, 2013
Sorry, your post gave me the impression you didn't understand exhaust brakes and how they work.
With all that driving experience, you'd know where the best position for an exhaust brake actuator is. Every vehicle I've been associated with that had them, is pretty much the same place. Before we had prime movers with engine brakes, our road trains only had exhaust brakes and they were all in relatively the same position, no matter the model or make of truck. Same with the coaches, all pretty much situated in the same place, as I expect anyone who has worked on or driven trucks would know.
Gadge said
12:47 PM Dec 12, 2013
Thanks for your quick response, and yes I agree with your comments re location, however this is not the question I am asking!
don't know if I have worded my question in some strange way to be getting the answers im getting!
The vehicle is factory fitted with the unit, so location is not the issue!
The question and issue is, is the unit fitted in, with the vacuum actuator facing the gearbox or the near side ?
Wanting to know if it works differently if turned around.
Thanks Gadge
Gadge said
01:04 PM Dec 12, 2013
Thanks for your quick response, as said, thanks for your responses.
I thought my original question was clear! But clearly by the response I got it wasn't clear.
The reason for using this forum was to call on on the knowledge stored in the mind's of us wonderful Grey Nomads!
My intent was not to upset anyone, but with respect if you can't answer the question don't respond. ( This is in know way directly directed to you. As said thanks!)
I just get frustrated when you ask what I thought was a straight forward question, the responses I got, there was no relevance to my dilemma.
Thanks Gadge
Gadge said
01:19 PM Dec 12, 2013
Guess I will get my head around how this works!?
I thought I was answering to individuals but clearly that isn't the case.
Used quick response but don't know what happened to my post.
Thanks to you all and I hope I can get an answer.
Cheers Gadge
mr glassies said
06:45 PM Dec 12, 2013
hi gadge
if what your calling the actuator is the butterfly that stops the air in the exhaust . well that would depend on which side your exhaust is on . if thats what your after theres a problem a lot of people over look . SOOT build up on the butterfly and in the housing i give the ones on my truck a bash with a hammer now and them and they seam to work gr8.
i have a 4.5 tonne tipper it will compression lock in the wet . and both my big trucks 15 tonne suck trucks can come down Maleny range without touching the brakes ( i do dab them from time to time just to make sure theresa good peddle . but i do that with what ever i drive ) i love em they save your brakes and in some cases can stop accidents . wish they were on all diesel vehicles
dibs
Santa said
07:41 PM Dec 12, 2013
Gadge wrote:
Thanks for your quick response, and yes I agree with your comments re location, however this is not the question I am asking!
don't know if I have worded my question in some strange way to be getting the answers im getting!
The vehicle is factory fitted with the unit, so location is not the issue!
The question and issue is, is the unit fitted in, with the vacuum actuator facing the gearbox or the near side ?
Wanting to know if it works differently if turned around.
Thanks Gadge
Evening Gadge, you'll find a lot members on this forum will answer a post asking a specific question, like yours, to inform you that they don't know the answer, but wish you well in your quest, all very friendly.
On the other hand there are the safety, legal and legislative experts who are quick to inform (whether they are right or wrong) you that what you are contemplating is unsafe or against the law.
Ultimately you may even have your question answered.
Stick around for a while, you'll get used to the way things work, I think.
oldbobsbus said
08:29 PM Dec 12, 2013
If as you say it if factory fitted then whats your problem???? if the manufacturer fitted it where it is then they thought it was the best place... If it isn't stopping you like you expected them maybe you have an adjustment problem or even a compression problem..
-- Edited by oldbobsbus on Thursday 12th of December 2013 08:30:17 PM
Gadge said
08:55 PM Dec 12, 2013
Hi Santa, thanks for your post. I clearly hear what your saying.
i guess other members just don't have the time to read the original post and then comment.
it would be a dull and boring old world if we didn't have people of diversity, as you said I may get an answer.
Gadge said
09:16 PM Dec 12, 2013
oldbobsbus wrote:
If as you say it if factory fitted then whats your problem???? if the manufacturer fitted it where it is then they thought it was the best place... If it isn't stopping you like you expected them maybe you have an adjustment problem or even a compression problem..
-- Edited by oldbobsbus on Thursday 12th of December 2013 08:30:17 PM
Thanks Oldbobsbus,
my problem is I want someone to have a look underneath a bus like mine! And just tell me if the vacuum cylinder is on the gearbox side or the near side.
As said in my first post the thing has been serviced and is adjusted to maximum closure when operated.
But instead of getting underneath, undoing four bolts, thanking it out and turning it around I thought I might ask all you learned Gray Nomads if you could tell me!
oldbobsbus said
06:54 AM Dec 13, 2013
Just a couple of things come to mind if it doesn't seem to work as well as you would have hoped..
Are there any vacuum leaks between your tanks and the pull cylinder. ( I had a Hino AC140 that worked fine on the workshop floor but under load it didn't pull in properly)
Is there any binding or wear in the butterfly that could cause it to lock part open under load.
Next time I see a Coaster I will have a look for you ..
Baz421 said
04:25 PM Dec 13, 2013
Well here's the wiring diagram for exhaust brakes on Coasters.
If anyone was watching this arvo they would have thought I was up to no good...lol
There was a Coaster parked on the side of the road and nobody was about so I laid down beside it and had a look under it but alas it had a petrol motor and NO exhaust brake...
Never mind I tried and it now looks like you have your answer with the above info..
Aus-Kiwi said
11:36 PM Dec 13, 2013
Often the centre shaft wears and butterfly doesn't close as it should .. You may have to adjust the limiting bolts inside.. The butterfly closes fairly tight.. Spray some good WD40 etc on bolts before attempting to undo them.. Exhaust brakes are not illegal to have .. The noise issue has nothing do to with OP question.. These exhaust brakes are rather quiet anyway.. This help ??
-- Edited by Aus-Kiwi on Friday 13th of December 2013 11:38:05 PM
-- Edited by Aus-Kiwi on Friday 13th of December 2013 11:39:18 PM
Gadge said
08:56 PM Dec 18, 2013
oldbobsbus wrote:
Just a couple of things come to mind if it doesn't seem to work as well as you would have hoped..
Are there any vacuum leaks between your tanks and the pull cylinder. ( I had a Hino AC140 that worked fine on the workshop floor but under load it didn't pull in properly)
Is there any binding or wear in the butterfly that could cause it to lock part open under load.
Next time I see a Coaster I will have a look for you ..
Thanks for your thoughts, was only thinking the same thing.
I don't think any of what you mentioned but am going to stick the camera under the bus then take it for a run. Then, hopefully I can see what's happening.
Gadge said
09:05 PM Dec 18, 2013
Aus-Kiwi wrote:
Often the centre shaft wears and butterfly doesn't close as it should .. You may have to adjust the limiting bolts inside.. The butterfly closes fairly tight.. Spray some good WD40 etc on bolts before attempting to undo them.. Exhaust brakes are not illegal to have .. The noise issue has nothing do to with OP question.. These exhaust brakes are rather quiet anyway.. This help ??
-- Edited by Aus-Kiwi on Friday 13th of December 2013 11:38:05 PM
-- Edited by Aus-Kiwi on Friday 13th of December 2013 11:39:18 PM
Thanks Aus-Kiwi
Yes the problem is somewhat perplexing to say the least.
As you suggested I have adjusted the butterfly to max close but with little joy.
I guess I will have to pull the bloody thing out again and check that nothing has gone wrong after I serviced it.
I will stick the camera underneath and see what I can capture as I drive along.
I hope some one can give advice as nothing forth coming from Toyota.
i have a Coaster 1987 fitted with exhaust Brakes. On purchase they were not working. I have serviced and replaced.
the actuator is working well with no leaks. There are no exhaust leaks before the unit.
could some one tell me if the unit should have the actuator next to the gear box or out to the near side of the vehicle.
the unit is working but with very poor results.
Gadge
Practice driving your bus round to get used to how much assistance you get and how to use it properly, if you can adjust it, you'll be able to try different settings. When you come to a stop with the engine brake on, you should only lose a couple of hundred revs, compared to when not using it. Do you have a switch to shut if of and on, as many places take a dim view of engine brake use in their towns etc.
I thought it was the Jacob's type braking that was the noise problem, not the ones in the exhaust pipe.
Your right PeterD the exhaust brake you can hardly hear just a bit of air hissing, the Jacob brake is the noisy one, x truckie.
lance c
Yes engine brakes do make the most noise, but have been spoken to on a number of occasions over the years because we've used an exhaust brake in town precincts. You don't notice them in urban area's, as unbearable soul destroying never ending noise is all you get in cities, but in outback country towns which are very quiet places, an exhaust brake does make noise.
It matters not to me whether it is a lot of noise or a little, as we are guests in their town, we heed their comments and switch of the exhaust brake when entering any town, just to be on the safe side.
Considering the amount of travel we do, we alway respect the wishes of locals and they are always grateful and helpful. Sadly some urban travellers tend not to see things from a local point of view, they believe their urban approach is acceptable anywhere and act in that manner.
Firstly, thank you for all your comments!
However, nothing any of you have spoken about is remotely relevant to my question!
I thought my question was fairly str8t forward!
It is factory fitted so yes it does have a switch, in fact it has three!
One on the steering column, one on the clutch and one on the throttle.
It even has a device that stops it operating at idle!
It is no way, or could not be associated with jake brakes!
Jake brakes are engine brakes! In short they stop the vales from expelling exhaust gas from the motor, thus slowing the vehicle down, very efficient. Except for the noise, this is what the towns people get crapy about.
Exhaust brakes are just that! They brake the exhaust, that means slow it up from leaving the engine and manifold, thus, slowing the motor because the exhaust is restricted.
Exhaust brakes are fitted to most commercial vehicles over 2 T and used every day in suburbia and towns all over the country, mostly un audible!
Now, we have had a lesion in how these brakes work.
With respect, the comments posted have Nothing, Zero, Didally Squat to do with the question I asked.
I am a professional driver with many years experience working on heavy vehicles and do know how efficiently they should work.
The question to all you good people was, is the unit fitted with the actuator to the gearbox side or the near side.
If you can answer this please do, but not interested in dribble.
Some one must have or know someone that does have one of these vehicles!
Could you please look underneath and let me know.
Thanks, Gadge
With all that driving experience, you'd know where the best position for an exhaust brake actuator is. Every vehicle I've been associated with that had them, is pretty much the same place. Before we had prime movers with engine brakes, our road trains only had exhaust brakes and they were all in relatively the same position, no matter the model or make of truck. Same with the coaches, all pretty much situated in the same place, as I expect anyone who has worked on or driven trucks would know.
Thanks for your quick response, and yes I agree with your comments re location, however this is not the question I am asking!
don't know if I have worded my question in some strange way to be getting the answers im getting!
The vehicle is factory fitted with the unit, so location is not the issue!
The question and issue is, is the unit fitted in, with the vacuum actuator facing the gearbox or the near side ?
Wanting to know if it works differently if turned around.
Thanks Gadge
Thanks for your quick response, as said, thanks for your responses.
I thought my original question was clear! But clearly by the response I got it wasn't clear.
The reason for using this forum was to call on on the knowledge stored in the mind's of us wonderful Grey Nomads!
My intent was not to upset anyone, but with respect if you can't answer the question don't respond. ( This is in know way directly directed to you. As said thanks!)
I just get frustrated when you ask what I thought was a straight forward question, the responses I got, there was no relevance to my dilemma.
Thanks Gadge
Guess I will get my head around how this works!?
I thought I was answering to individuals but clearly that isn't the case.
Used quick response but don't know what happened to my post.
Thanks to you all and I hope I can get an answer.
Cheers Gadge
if what your calling the actuator is the butterfly that stops the air in the exhaust . well that would depend on which side your exhaust is on . if thats what your after theres a problem a lot of people over look . SOOT build up on the butterfly and in the housing i give the ones on my truck a bash with a hammer now and them and they seam to work gr8.
i have a 4.5 tonne tipper it will compression lock in the wet . and both my big trucks 15 tonne suck trucks can come down Maleny range without touching the brakes ( i do dab them from time to time just to make sure theresa good peddle . but i do that with what ever i drive ) i love em they save your brakes and in some cases can stop accidents . wish they were on all diesel vehicles
dibs
Evening Gadge, you'll find a lot members on this forum will answer a post asking a specific question, like yours, to inform you that they don't know the answer, but wish you well in your quest, all very friendly.
On the other hand there are the safety, legal and legislative experts who are quick to inform (whether they are right or wrong) you that what you are contemplating is unsafe or against the law.
Ultimately you may even have your question answered.
Stick around for a while, you'll get used to the way things work, I think.
If as you say it if factory fitted then whats your problem???? if the manufacturer fitted it where it is then they thought it was the best place...
If it isn't stopping you like you expected them maybe you have an adjustment problem or even a compression problem..
-- Edited by oldbobsbus on Thursday 12th of December 2013 08:30:17 PM
Hi Santa, thanks for your post. I clearly hear what your saying.
i guess other members just don't have the time to read the original post and then comment.
it would be a dull and boring old world if we didn't have people of diversity, as you said I may get an answer.
Thanks Oldbobsbus,
my problem is I want someone to have a look underneath a bus like mine! And just tell me if the vacuum cylinder is on the gearbox side or the near side.
As said in my first post the thing has been serviced and is adjusted to maximum closure when operated.
But instead of getting underneath, undoing four bolts, thanking it out and turning it around I thought I might ask all you learned Gray Nomads if you could tell me!
Are there any vacuum leaks between your tanks and the pull cylinder. ( I had a Hino AC140 that worked fine on the workshop floor but under load it didn't pull in properly)
Is there any binding or wear in the butterfly that could cause it to lock part open under load.
Next time I see a Coaster I will have a look for you ..
Well here's the wiring diagram for exhaust brakes on Coasters.
https://www.google.com.au/search?q=coaster+exhaust+brake+diagram&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=W5iqUr2tJ4OllQX51IGoBw&ved=0CDsQsAQ
here's how to mount it - diag from Toyota
http://www.toyodiy.com/parts/p_J_2007_TOYOTA_COASTER_XZB51-ZRPQH5_4711.html
The way I see this being fitted is look toward the exhaust manifold and the operating crank faces left.
Hope this helps.
Cheers Baz
Here's a parts catalogue for free,,, it's 12mb so as I'm on wireless (for travel) I'll let you view if required Gadge.
www.partsnavigator.com.au/d_catalog3/39
There was a Coaster parked on the side of the road and nobody was about so I laid down beside it and had a look under it but alas it had a petrol motor and NO exhaust brake...
Never mind I tried and it now looks like you have your answer with the above info..
Often the centre shaft wears and butterfly doesn't close as it should ..
You may have to adjust the limiting bolts inside.. The butterfly closes fairly tight..
Spray some good WD40 etc on bolts before attempting to undo them..
Exhaust brakes are not illegal to have .. The noise issue has nothing do to with OP question..
These exhaust brakes are rather quiet anyway..
This help ??
-- Edited by Aus-Kiwi on Friday 13th of December 2013 11:38:05 PM
-- Edited by Aus-Kiwi on Friday 13th of December 2013 11:39:18 PM
Thanks for your thoughts, was only thinking the same thing.
I don't think any of what you mentioned but am going to stick the camera under the bus then take it for a run. Then, hopefully I can see what's happening.
Thanks Aus-Kiwi
Yes the problem is somewhat perplexing to say the least.
As you suggested I have adjusted the butterfly to max close but with little joy.
I guess I will have to pull the bloody thing out again and check that nothing has gone wrong after I serviced it.
I will stick the camera underneath and see what I can capture as I drive along.