Thinking of up grading our caravan and I am interested to know if any one knows about AI-KO electronic stability control. Is it worth the extra cost or not
regards Rastas
ozjohn said
12:00 PM Dec 2, 2013
It improved safety so gets a Tick from me. However it should not take the place of correctly distributing the van load. Hopefully one would never need it to activate. If it does, then the driver needs to look for the cause of the yaw (Sway) and rectify the problem. Cheers, Ozjohn.
tommo said
09:01 PM Dec 6, 2013
most of the new vans have it on at on extra cost we have just got a new concept and it was part of the deal. i would feel safe for mywife to tow the van now
regards paul
Jonathan said
09:50 PM Dec 6, 2013
Hi Guys ..
When I recently decided to change my mode of travelling from Motorhome to Caravan and Tug, The ALKO ESC (electronic Stability Control) was the only thing that made me investigate further as I wasn't too sure about one aspect.
Don't get me wrong, they are a great improvement and very popular .. As I hope to pick up my New Age Caravan 18 series on Tuesday, and it will be without ALKO esc fitted .. my choice .. My new Isuzu Dmax has an excellent ESC built in, so I ventured to find out if ..
(a) it was a good idea to have both units running an ESC when linked together .. and if not, then
(b) which was most beneficial to be using on its own ..
Four out of the five mech engineers said it was not really necessary to be running ESC on both units as it could likely present an imbalance between the dual functions ..
So, I'm happy with my choice and will still adhere to all the principles involved in towing a van ..
Should I find down the road that there is some modification/adjustment necessary, then I will address it then ..
But if there are any Tug and Van owners out there that are running electronic stability Control systems on both of their units, I'm still quite keen to find out your opinions .. as I was unable to gain any factual proof for or against using them together !
Baz421 said
10:21 PM Dec 6, 2013
Jonathan wrote:
Hi Guys ..
When I recently decided to change my mode of travelling from Motorhome to Caravan and Tug, The ALKO ESC (electronic Stability Control) was the only thing that made me investigate further as I wasn't too sure about one aspect.
Don't get me wrong, they are a great improvement and very popular .. As I hope to pick up my New Age Caravan 18 series on Tuesday, and it will be without ALKO esc fitted .. my choice .. My new Isuzu Dmax has an excellent ESC built in, so I ventured to find out if ..
(a) it was a good idea to have both units running an ESC when linked together .. and if not, then
(b) which was most beneficial to be using on its own ..
Four out of the five mech engineers said it was not really necessary to be running ESC on both units as it could likely present an imbalance between the dual functions ..
So, I'm happy with my choice and will still adhere to all the principles involved in towing a van ..
Should I find down the road that there is some modification/adjustment necessary, then I will address it then ..
But if there are any Tug and Van owners out there that are running electronic stability Control systems on both of their units, I'm still quite keen to find out your opinions .. as I was unable to gain any factual proof for or against using them together !
Jonathon I'm not an engineer but as I understand it the Dmax "Electronic Stability Program" (ESP) is a computerised system for the tug only, and detects loss of traction/skidding and applies the brakes in a controlled computerised method to the Dmax only,,, am I right here or not please.
The ALKO is solely for lateral instability on vans etc and applies the van brakes only to regain lateral control quickly.
Does the Dmax system allow you to input into the ESP system that you are towing and any weight info?
If not then the ALKO system would most likely not conflict with the ESP on the Dmax as they are essentially independant systems and not integrated. If I'm understanding this issue correctly the Dmax ESP will not recognise lateral instability itself, but detect loss of traction/skidding of the Dmax only.
Did the engineers read the info or just offer an opinion for "free".
Happy to be corrected.
-- Edited by Baz421 on Friday 6th of December 2013 10:22:57 PM
Jonathan said
11:01 PM Dec 6, 2013
Hi Barry ..
I think you could be right too .. and I'm no engineer either .. The opinion I received from all but one was that they weren't really interested ..
The Dmax is still only new so I can't really comment on how it travels .. but do know that there is no input facility for the ESC .. just the capability to turn it on or off.
What you say sounds logical and feasible Barry .. I will see how things pan out from here before making any radical changes .. a McHich and HR WDH will be also fitted so will give them a chance to prove themselves first ..
thanks Barry !
Plendo said
11:53 PM Dec 6, 2013
Hi Jonathen,
we have not picked up our van yet, but when we do we will be in the opposite situation to yourself, we will be towing with a Land Rover Discovery 4 which has ESC (I think they all do now), it also has trailer assist which senses trailer sway, and corrects. Our van will also have ESC.
Like you I was concerned about systems fighting each other and compensating for each other. I sought advice from AlKo, they indicated it was not a problem, but it is fair to say they did not sound confident. I then sought advice from Land Rover via the dealer, they enquired with Land Rover Australia, and came back with a very confident no problem. Then last of all I checked the forums, and there commentary was similar, commenting on how solid everything felt with all the systems in place.
After all that, i am reasonably confident that all will be well. Now with all these systems in place we just need to teach it to make a cup of coffee before it wakes us when we arrive at our destination.
Jonathan said
05:55 AM Dec 7, 2013
Good morning David .. and thanks also for your reply.
I suppose I am now in a state of mind being .. " suck it and see " to a certain extent.
Once I had made my decision I was happy to go with that. As both of my units are new, and both well-constructed in their own right, I believe they now both need to do some time on the road together while I assess their joint and individual performances .. I'm not expecting any great problems other than teething problems and I will have a few of my own in this change-over learning-curve from Motorhome to Caravan.
As you would no doubt agree, the forums do hold a great wealth of experience in many fields, and I've certainly enjoyed reading the many reports available. I glean a lot of info from them but got to a stage where decision time has arrived.
My current circumstances are probably somewhat different to the norm .. I am still living in my MH until Tuesday. On the day I will fully vacate the MH to its new owner and pickup the Caravan and move in.
Fortunately, I'm extremely lucky to have very supportive friends who have given me space on their block to park up for the duration .. (they're not expecting me to be here for Christmas though .. hehe)
Enjoy your new van !
Baz421 said
10:26 PM Dec 7, 2013
rastas wrote:
Hi all
Thinking of up grading our caravan and I am interested to know if any one knows about AI-KO electronic stability control. Is it worth the extra cost or not
regards Rastas
Hi Rastas,,, sorry it looks like we forgot your OP.
We tow a 3 tonne ATM van behind a Landcruiser ute and don't have any stability problems.
If yours tows OK, doesn't sway excessively then why spend more money for a "problem" that doesn't exist.
ozjohn said
08:14 AM Dec 8, 2013
Baz421. QUOTE:"If yours tows OK, doesn't sway excessively". A trailer shouldn't sway at all, not even a little wiggle from time to time. Ozjohn.
rockylizard said
09:11 AM Dec 8, 2013
ozjohn wrote:
Baz421. QUOTE:"If yours tows OK, doesn't sway excessively". A trailer shouldn't sway at all, not even a little wiggle from time to time. Ozjohn.
Gday...
My perspective. My van sits behind the Landy as steady as a rock. It is not even affected by passing/overtaking trucks and I haven't felt any movement even with side winds etc (although, I don't usually travel if the wind is strong - not for the van, but because it is just unpleasant weather and I sit it out tucked up in the van somewhere with a good book )
Let's look at the modern vehicle - ABS, ESC, Parking Sensors, Traction Control systems etc etc. 99.9% of the time you not only don't need them, you don't notice them. That is a good thing. Just like Sway Control on the van - if it doesn't sway/wiggle in normal usage then why bother with ESC?
However, like the systems already mandated on your vehicle, which are only useful when an emergency situation occurs - so is the AL-KO ESC. Not needed 99.9% of the time but if it is activated by an emergency situation it would be cheap at twice the price.
My van doesn't have it and I doubt if I would lash out now and get it installed but that doesn't mean I don't need it. It is equally, if not more, important to ensure the van is packed correctly, tyres are in good nick and correctly pressured, tow hitches etc are all in good nick and drive to the conditions. Then at least it will only be the emergency situation that will (or may) catch you out.
Cheers - safe travelling - John
mr glassies said
07:59 PM Dec 8, 2013
that will be interesting jonathan my colorado has it to
well i had a disagreement with th sparky that put our brake controller in my new colorado i wanted it were i could reach it without thinking about it .he didnt see my reasoning simple really if you get into a position /situation were you need the trailer to be braked before the tug i didnt need to serch or reach out of my driving comfort zone . he wouldnt play the game so im getting my sparky to do it. after driving big rigs it seams to come natural
dibs
Jonathan said
09:01 PM Dec 8, 2013
Hiya Graeme .. (and pass on my best to the good lady)
I will be simply going ahead as it is now .. still to have the Brake controller fitted on Tuesday and I know this guy will ask me where I would prefer it to be .. and will make suggestions .. thats how it should happen too !
Going to enjoy the change of travel mode Graeme ..
you guys keep well !
rastas said
09:11 PM Dec 8, 2013
Hi all
Thank you to all who replied to my post. I seems that not everybody agrees that it is necessary but thanks again.
Regards Rastas
Baz421 said
09:24 PM Dec 8, 2013
ozjohn wrote:
Baz421. QUOTE:"If yours tows OK, doesn't sway excessively". A trailer shouldn't sway at all, not even a little wiggle from time to time. Ozjohn.
John I have respected your opinions and views for ages,,, but you can't tell me vans/trailers do not sway ie crosswind,,, or Volvo N12 (or similar) forward control prime mover passing opposite direction. Even road trains and B doubles sway,, especially empty pans.
Hi all
Thinking of up grading our caravan and I am interested to know if any one knows about AI-KO electronic stability control. Is it worth the extra cost or not
regards Rastas
It improved safety so gets a Tick from me.
However it should not take the place of correctly distributing the van load.
Hopefully one would never need it to activate. If it does, then the driver needs to look for the cause of the yaw (Sway) and rectify the problem.
Cheers, Ozjohn.
regards paul
Hi Guys ..
When I recently decided to change my mode of travelling from Motorhome to Caravan and Tug, The ALKO ESC (electronic Stability Control) was the only thing that made me investigate further as I wasn't too sure about one aspect.
Don't get me wrong, they are a great improvement and very popular .. As I hope to pick up my New Age Caravan 18 series on Tuesday, and it will be without ALKO esc fitted .. my choice .. My new Isuzu Dmax has an excellent ESC built in, so I ventured to find out if ..
(a) it was a good idea to have both units running an ESC when linked together .. and if not, then
(b) which was most beneficial to be using on its own ..
Four out of the five mech engineers said it was not really necessary to be running ESC on both units as it could likely present an imbalance between the dual functions ..
So, I'm happy with my choice and will still adhere to all the principles involved in towing a van ..
Should I find down the road that there is some modification/adjustment necessary, then I will address it then ..
But if there are any Tug and Van owners out there that are running electronic stability Control systems on both of their units, I'm still quite keen to find out your opinions .. as I was unable to gain any factual proof for or against using them together !
Jonathon I'm not an engineer but as I understand it the Dmax "Electronic Stability Program" (ESP) is a computerised system for the tug only, and detects loss of traction/skidding and applies the brakes in a controlled computerised method to the Dmax only,,, am I right here or not please.
The ALKO is solely for lateral instability on vans etc and applies the van brakes only to regain lateral control quickly.
Does the Dmax system allow you to input into the ESP system that you are towing and any weight info?
If not then the ALKO system would most likely not conflict with the ESP on the Dmax as they are essentially independant systems and not integrated. If I'm understanding this issue correctly the Dmax ESP will not recognise lateral instability itself, but detect loss of traction/skidding of the Dmax only.
Did the engineers read the info or just offer an opinion for "free".
Happy to be corrected.
-- Edited by Baz421 on Friday 6th of December 2013 10:22:57 PM
Hi Barry ..
I think you could be right too .. and I'm no engineer either .. The opinion I received from all but one was that they weren't really interested ..
The Dmax is still only new so I can't really comment on how it travels .. but do know that there is no input facility for the ESC .. just the capability to turn it on or off.
What you say sounds logical and feasible Barry .. I will see how things pan out from here before making any radical changes .. a McHich and HR WDH will be also fitted so will give them a chance to prove themselves first ..
thanks Barry !
Hi Jonathen,
we have not picked up our van yet, but when we do we will be in the opposite situation to yourself, we will be towing with a Land Rover Discovery 4 which has ESC (I think they all do now), it also has trailer assist which senses trailer sway, and corrects. Our van will also have ESC.
Like you I was concerned about systems fighting each other and compensating for each other. I sought advice from AlKo, they indicated it was not a problem, but it is fair to say they did not sound confident. I then sought advice from Land Rover via the dealer, they enquired with Land Rover Australia, and came back with a very confident no problem. Then last of all I checked the forums, and there commentary was similar, commenting on how solid everything felt with all the systems in place.
After all that, i am reasonably confident that all will be well. Now with all these systems in place we just need to teach it to make a cup of coffee before it wakes us when we arrive at our destination.
Good morning David .. and thanks also for your reply.
I suppose I am now in a state of mind being .. " suck it and see " to a certain extent.
Once I had made my decision I was happy to go with that. As both of my units are new, and both well-constructed in their own right, I believe they now both need to do some time on the road together while I assess their joint and individual performances .. I'm not expecting any great problems other than teething problems and I will have a few of my own in this change-over learning-curve from Motorhome to Caravan.
As you would no doubt agree, the forums do hold a great wealth of experience in many fields, and I've certainly enjoyed reading the many reports available. I glean a lot of info from them but got to a stage where decision time has arrived.
My current circumstances are probably somewhat different to the norm .. I am still living in my MH until Tuesday. On the day I will fully vacate the MH to its new owner and pickup the Caravan and move in.
Fortunately, I'm extremely lucky to have very supportive friends who have given me space on their block to park up for the duration .. (they're not expecting me to be here for Christmas though .. hehe)
Enjoy your new van !
Hi Rastas,,, sorry it looks like we forgot your OP.
We tow a 3 tonne ATM van behind a Landcruiser ute and don't have any stability problems.
If yours tows OK, doesn't sway excessively then why spend more money for a "problem" that doesn't exist.
QUOTE: "If yours tows OK, doesn't sway excessively".
A trailer shouldn't sway at all, not even a little wiggle from time to time.
Ozjohn.
Gday...
My perspective. My van sits behind the Landy as steady as a rock. It is not even affected by passing/overtaking trucks and I haven't felt any movement even with side winds etc (although, I don't usually travel if the wind is strong - not for the van, but because it is just unpleasant weather and I sit it out tucked up in the van somewhere with a good book
)
Let's look at the modern vehicle - ABS, ESC, Parking Sensors, Traction Control systems etc etc. 99.9% of the time you not only don't need them, you don't notice them. That is a good thing. Just like Sway Control on the van - if it doesn't sway/wiggle in normal usage then why bother with ESC?
However, like the systems already mandated on your vehicle, which are only useful when an emergency situation occurs - so is the AL-KO ESC. Not needed 99.9% of the time but if it is activated by an emergency situation it would be cheap at twice the price.
My van doesn't have it and I doubt if I would lash out now and get it installed but that doesn't mean I don't need it.
It is equally, if not more, important to ensure the van is packed correctly, tyres are in good nick and correctly pressured, tow hitches etc are all in good nick and drive to the conditions. Then at least it will only be the emergency situation that will (or may) catch you out.
Cheers - safe travelling - John
that will be interesting jonathan my colorado has it to
well i had a disagreement with th sparky that put our brake controller in my new colorado i wanted it were i could reach it without thinking about it .he didnt see my reasoning simple really if you get into a position /situation were you need the trailer to be braked before the tug i didnt need to serch or reach out of my driving comfort zone . he wouldnt play the game so im getting my sparky to do it. after driving big rigs it seams to come natural
dibs
Hiya Graeme .. (and pass on my best to the good lady)
I will be simply going ahead as it is now .. still to have the Brake controller fitted on Tuesday and I know this guy will ask me where I would prefer it to be .. and will make suggestions .. thats how it should happen too !
Going to enjoy the change of travel mode Graeme ..
you guys keep well !
Hi all
Thank you to all who replied to my post. I seems that not everybody agrees that it is necessary but thanks again.
Regards Rastas
John I have respected your opinions and views for ages,,, but you can't tell me vans/trailers do not sway ie crosswind,,, or Volvo N12 (or similar) forward control prime mover passing opposite direction. Even road trains and B doubles sway,, especially empty pans.