If you scroll down on the lower link here, you will see a British Ship flying the Union Jack. Scroll down much further and you will see the Royal Navy White Ensign and some info on the "normal practice" which I suppose could relate to the "protocol".
Interestingly, the Royal Navy Association says the Union Flag (Union Jack) is the one that should be draped on the coffin, not the White Ensign, although apparently so do so, see; (Scroll down to that section);
"Yes union flag for is appropriate for ex-services personnel. An RN expert on ceremonial advises that a white ensign should not be used on the coffin, although this is common practice and not formally supported by the RNA, since we follow the RN Ceremonial Rules."
-- Edited by Duh on Sunday 20th of October 2013 01:20:44 AM
neilnruth said
04:23 AM Oct 20, 2013
Does anyone know what the protocol is? My Dad would like the Union Jack draped over his coffin when he goes but someone has told my hubby he can't have it because he was in the Royal Navy. Dur? Union Jack is British. They said he would have to have the White Ensign because he was in the Navy. I'm thinking that might be harder to get. Is this true or not. I've searched the net for protocols but it doesn't give that one in particular. We have also asked a local current sailor to check for us.
johnq said
06:02 AM Oct 20, 2013
A James Bond film. How is that for a recommendation?
Navy service protocol. The deceased under the Jack and the white ensign can be seen flying in the background. The ensign is for the ship not the man.
Union jack flown at the head of the ship and the white ensign at the stern.
White ensign only allowed to be flown by RN/RAN ships and establishments, exception in Australia is HMAS Vampire at the maritime museum in Sydney.
Union jack on coffins or Australian flag.
Ken
-- Edited by Landfall on Sunday 20th of October 2013 01:04:42 PM
Rip and Rosie said
02:44 PM Oct 20, 2013
When my step-father died, we inisited on a flag draped coffin, and an RSL service to pay homage to his war service. There were some "politics" involved, but he wanted that, and with the funeral director on our side, it all went beautifully.
He doesn't "have to have" anything....he can have what he wants.
johnq said
03:58 PM Oct 20, 2013
Just as an aside to this, the Australian merchant marine were irate when Whitlam tried to force the blue Australian national flag inappropriately onto the merchant marine and onto the RAN as well.
Red ensign http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Red_Ensign
For those with an interest in history, Gough Whitlam was adamant that the Australian national flag have a blue or white background and adorned solely with the Southern Cross. He wanted the national flag to be like Canada's, which has a simple emblem the maple leaf, which Gough maintained was seen by other countries as an outstanding flag.
Not entering into any flag debate, just saying.
sandsmere said
06:26 PM Oct 20, 2013
If you want the Union Jack on the coffin , Get one . Bugger the protocol .
I wouldn't mind a Jolly Roger on mine !
Duh said
06:40 PM Oct 20, 2013
johnq wrote:
Just as an aside to this, the Australian merchant marine were irate when Whitlam tried to force the blue Australian national flag inappropriately onto the merchant marine and onto the RAN as well.
For those with an interest in history, Gough Whitlam was adamant that the Australian national flag have a blue or white background and adorned solely with the Southern Cross. He wanted the national flag to be like Canada's, which has a simple emblem the maple leaf, which Gough maintained was seen by other countries as an outstanding flag.
Not entering into any flag debate, just saying.
Thanks for that info John, just made it clickable....
neilnruth said
12:27 AM Oct 21, 2013
Thanks for all those links. I reckon it will be the Union Jack if that's what the Royal Navy Association says it should be - and Dad would be happy with that. He still supported the English cricket team - even after living here for most of his life!! Once a Pom always a Pom he said.
countryroad said
12:19 AM Oct 22, 2013
You'll probably find the funeral place has one tucked away.
We did for my husbands funeral, he had been in the British Army but no one really enquired.
Youngest granddaughter said " Grandad's got a Grandma blankie " She thought it was a quilt. There was a ripple of laughter which was lovely.
johnq said
09:20 PM Oct 22, 2013
Duh wrote:
johnq wrote:
Just as an aside to this, the Australian merchant marine were irate when Whitlam tried to force the blue Australian national flag inappropriately onto the merchant marine and onto the RAN as well.
For those with an interest in history, Gough Whitlam was adamant that the Australian national flag have a blue or white background and adorned solely with the Southern Cross. He wanted the national flag to be like Canada's, which has a simple emblem the maple leaf, which Gough maintained was seen by other countries as an outstanding flag.
Not entering into any flag debate, just saying.
Thanks for that info John, just made it clickable....
It is interesting stuff isn't it? You might also be interested in this,
Thanks for all those links. I reckon it will be the Union Jack if that's what the Royal Navy Association says it should be - and Dad would be happy with that. He still supported the English cricket team - even after living here for most of his life!! Once a Pom always a Pom he said.
neilnruth, I would ask what you Dad wants, although the Union Jack is nice and British, it doesn't give an indication of what service someone served in, if your Dad wants the Royal Navy Ensign, I would say get one and don't worry about protocols or whatever, there is nothing anyone who doesn't agree with it can do or would be willing to do.......Just a thought !
Peterpan said
05:04 AM Oct 23, 2013
Duh wrote:
neilnruth wrote:
Thanks for all those links. I reckon it will be the Union Jack if that's what the Royal Navy Association says it should be - and Dad would be happy with that. He still supported the English cricket team - even after living here for most of his life!! Once a Pom always a Pom he said.
neilnruth, I would ask what you Dad wants, although the Union Jack is nice and British, it doesn't give an indication of what service someone served in, if your Dad wants the Royal Navy Ensign, I would say get one and don't worry about protocols or whatever, there is nothing anyone who doesn't agree with it can do or would be willing to do.......Just a thought !
If you can't get a White Ensign, it might be an idea if he still has his Navy Cap available to have it placed on the flag,This would show which service he served in also.
This was done for an Army mate with his Slouch Hat placed on the Australian Flag.
neilnruth said
06:06 AM Oct 23, 2013
Unfortunately we can't ask Dad anymore as he has dementia and wouldn't know what we are talking about! But I have got it written down when I asked them a few years ago what they wanted and Mum is keen to have union Jack. Yes, I'm sure the funeral home should have one we can use. After all, we're paying them for things like that. Thanks to everyone for your interest. I knew I'd get help here - even if it's not about caravans!
Thank you. It is amazing how one thing leads to another. I went to the page for an interesting flag, to find the interesting site of a grey nomad. There are some interesting people about. See here,
-- Edited by johnq on Wednesday 23rd of October 2013 09:04:55 AM
neilnruth said
04:20 AM Oct 24, 2013
No worries johnq. I'm not precious about my threads.
Duh said
05:24 AM Oct 24, 2013
Someone posted that his Navy cap if he still has it could be placed on the casket.
Further to that, in the chapel, maybe a photo or two of him in his Navy uniform, or a shield he may have showing his Ship would all be nice touches too......just a thought....
neilnruth said
12:22 AM Oct 25, 2013
Yes, my brother has 'stitched' 2 photos together. One of his younger days in Navy uniform and one in his late 80's wearing his medals prior to an Anzac Day parade. They will go on the coffin. He's now going 93 and he's back in the Navy most days with men under him doing tasks.
Duh said
08:36 AM Oct 25, 2013
Glad he's got some memorabilia to go on his casket, he certainly has lived to a ripe old age, albeit not the best mentally now.
I knew a WW2 Digger I visited in hospital in his later years, he thought I was one of his mates from his Army days and would point to imaginary people outside his window he had served with saying that is so an so etc. Very sad when they get like that.
The British Navy fly both the Union Jack and the Navy Ensign (if that is the right word) so why can't he have the Union Jack.
I personally wouldn't care about so called protocol, if he wants the Union Jack get one of them. See this bit about the flag history;
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/be-vexed-no-more-union-flag-and-jack-both-fly/story-fnb64oi6-1226739852304
If you scroll down on the lower link here, you will see a British Ship flying the Union Jack. Scroll down much further and you will see the Royal Navy White Ensign and some info on the "normal practice" which I suppose could relate to the "protocol".
https://www.google.com.au/#q=Union+Jack+
See this link about the Royal Navy White Ensign which says both that and the Union Jack are flown when a Navy ship is in harbour.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Ensign
The next link below shows where the Royal Navy White Ensign can be purchased;
https://www.google.com.au/#q=royal+navy+white+ensign+flag
Interestingly, the Royal Navy Association says the Union Flag (Union Jack) is the one that should be draped on the coffin, not the White Ensign, although apparently so do so, see; (Scroll down to that section);
http://www.royal-naval-association.co.uk/help/faq/
-- Edited by Duh on Saturday 19th of October 2013 10:12:03 PM
-- Edited by Duh on Saturday 19th of October 2013 10:23:12 PM
Good spot John !! Ties in with what the Royal Naval Association said too in my earlier post;
http://www.royal-naval-association.co.uk/help/faq/
"Yes union flag for is appropriate for ex-services personnel. An RN expert on ceremonial advises that a white ensign should not be used on the coffin, although this is common practice and not formally supported by the RNA, since we follow the RN Ceremonial Rules."
-- Edited by Duh on Sunday 20th of October 2013 01:20:44 AM
Does anyone know what the protocol is? My Dad would like the Union Jack draped over his coffin when he goes but someone has told my hubby he can't have it because he was in the Royal Navy. Dur? Union Jack is British. They said he would have to have the White Ensign because he was in the Navy. I'm thinking that might be harder to get. Is this true or not. I've searched the net for protocols but it doesn't give that one in particular. We have also asked a local current sailor to check for us.
A James Bond film. How is that for a recommendation?
Navy service protocol. The deceased under the Jack and the white ensign can be seen flying in the background. The ensign is for the ship not the man.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlIIflu2cik
Union jack flown at the head of the ship and the white ensign at the stern.
White ensign only allowed to be flown by RN/RAN ships and establishments, exception in Australia is HMAS Vampire at the maritime museum in Sydney.
Union jack on coffins or Australian flag.
Ken
-- Edited by Landfall on Sunday 20th of October 2013 01:04:42 PM
He doesn't "have to have" anything....he can have what he wants.
Just as an aside to this, the Australian merchant marine were irate when Whitlam tried to force the blue Australian national flag inappropriately onto the merchant marine and onto the RAN as well.
Red ensign
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Red_Ensign
For those with an interest in history, Gough Whitlam was adamant that the Australian national flag have a blue or white background and adorned solely with the Southern Cross. He wanted the national flag to be like Canada's, which has a simple emblem the maple leaf, which Gough maintained was seen by other countries as an outstanding flag.
Not entering into any flag debate, just saying.
If you want the Union Jack on the coffin , Get one . Bugger the protocol .
I wouldn't mind a Jolly Roger on mine !
Thanks for that info John, just made it clickable....
We did for my husbands funeral, he had been in the British Army but no one really enquired.
Youngest granddaughter said " Grandad's got a Grandma blankie " She thought it was a quilt. There was a ripple of laughter which was lovely.
It is interesting stuff isn't it? You might also be interested in this,
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/sra1981254/s30.html
That is enough to make you dizzy reading it John.
The Murray River Flag is interesting too, see;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murray_River_Flag
https://www.google.com.au/search?q=murray+river+flag&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=1ANmUta9E6KoiQK614HYAQ&sqi=2&ved=0CDcQsAQ&biw=1067&bih=496
neilnruth, I would ask what you Dad wants, although the Union Jack is nice and British, it doesn't give an indication of what service someone served in, if your Dad wants the Royal Navy Ensign, I would say get one and don't worry about protocols or whatever, there is nothing anyone who doesn't agree with it can do or would be willing to do.......Just a thought !
If you can't get a White Ensign, it might be an idea if he still has his Navy Cap available to have it placed on the flag,This would show which service he served in also.
This was done for an Army mate with his Slouch Hat placed on the Australian Flag.
Unfortunately we can't ask Dad anymore as he has dementia and wouldn't know what we are talking about! But I have got it written down when I asked them a few years ago what they wanted and Mum is keen to have union Jack.
Yes, I'm sure the funeral home should have one we can use. After all, we're paying them for things like that.
Thanks to everyone for your interest. I knew I'd get help here - even if it's not about caravans!
Thank you. It is amazing how one thing leads to another. I went to the page for an interesting flag, to find the interesting site of a grey nomad. There are some interesting people about. See here,
http://www.goodearl.com.au/
neilnruth,
Sorry for the diversion.
edited to make a hyperlink
-- Edited by johnq on Wednesday 23rd of October 2013 09:04:55 AM
Someone posted that his Navy cap if he still has it could be placed on the casket.
Further to that, in the chapel, maybe a photo or two of him in his Navy uniform, or a shield he may have showing his Ship would all be nice touches too......just a thought....
Yes, my brother has 'stitched' 2 photos together. One of his younger days in Navy uniform and one in his late 80's wearing his medals prior to an Anzac Day parade. They will go on the coffin. He's now going 93 and he's back in the Navy most days with men under him doing tasks.
Glad he's got some memorabilia to go on his casket, he certainly has lived to a ripe old age, albeit not the best mentally now.
I knew a WW2 Digger I visited in hospital in his later years, he thought I was one of his mates from his Army days and would point to imaginary people outside his window he had served with saying that is so an so etc. Very sad when they get like that.