Generator. I am an older solo Nomad and would like advice how to attach it to the caravan so I do not have to shift it.
Duh said
12:21 AM Oct 18, 2013
Welcome to the forum Johanna.......I'm not into generators so will leave others to answer that one.
However if you click on the word "Search" in the blue bar above and then type generators into the search box that comes up there are several threads there on generators, this is one of them, see;
As for Nomad, that applies to both sexes, so no need to call yourself a Nomady, he he
-- Edited by Duh on Friday 18th of October 2013 12:24:34 AM
Johanna said
06:58 AM Oct 18, 2013
I was thinking of one with electric starter, no string to pull. Please any advice will be much appreciated. I have never travelled with a generator
but wanting to go on trips further and longer without having to go to roadhouse or caravan parks costing it to much.
Is Nomad male and Nomady female? (just a silly question, but like a answer. Nomady Johanna
Dougwe said
03:22 PM Oct 18, 2013
Welcome from me too Johanna, enjoy here and out in the playground. Make sure you check all sections of this great forum, plenty of help and a little bit of fun along the way.
As for your question, maybe you could ask mr google, just say something like, "built in caravan generators" and see if anything there. You could even have a chat to a motor home supplier or similar as a lot now have built in ones with electric starter. Worth a try.
You have asked your question in a good spot as there are many knowledgable people in here.
GaryKelly said
03:33 PM Oct 18, 2013
You're a Nomadette, Johanna. Or if you wanna go upmarket, a Nomadam.
beiffe said
04:12 PM Oct 18, 2013
Welcome to the forum you should get all the info you need.
It might help if we know what sort of vehicle you want to power and also the power required.
Eg do you have a large rig that has plenty of room to store the generator and therefore you could buy a large generator with remote control etc.
What appliances would you like to use and also what do you HAVE to use such as for medical requirements etc.
Do you have solar and if so how much and if you have solar are you going to get your regulator to start the generator when the voltage hits a certain SOG or voltage ?
In this world of ours there are many variants, with larger rigs you can have almost whatever you want whilst with small rigs you have to compromise and be a bit more intuitive.
The cost of a good large generator and the cost of the instal you may be able to do the same job with solar and good batteries with a large enough capacity.
I wont bite into the 240v area as there are people who get great pleasure talking about this but if you are not sure yourself get someone who knows what he is doing and that does not mean just an electrician or an autoelec as you need someone who has knowledge in RV installation of 240v as many electricians know household but not RV.
Some travelers make do with a little generator that is easy to carry and start but not heavy on the pocket and you just plug it into the power inlet so no hassles with wiring etc.
I have carried a generator for over 5 years and I think it may have perhaps 20 hours use and mainly for other people so if I did not have it I would not now buy one as with a good solar setup and capable batteries you can survive for a long time and many of us do it full time with no generator or going into parks.
Regards
Brian
jay said
06:15 PM Oct 18, 2013
Gooday Joanna.
We have a 2 KVA Honda permantly mounted in the back of our tray top Patrol with a canapie, just open the back door plug in & pull the handle, no lifting problems, just be carefull with refueling & storage of petrol, I only carrie enough for our needs, depending where we are.
Our van has a 40 amp Smart charger with 2 Full River AGM batterys, we will look at Solar in our next van, if will be our 8th.
Good luck hope this helps.
Duh said
01:47 AM Oct 19, 2013
Also be aware of the way your load (including your generator) is distributed, see these link;
As mentioned already, it would be better to carry a generator inside the towing vehicle rather than on the front tow bar or rear of your caravan. Always refuel away from your van and vehicle, the pic's shown are of a fire from the petrol fumes and fuel from a jerry can (when the cap was opened) which was being used to refuel a generator being ignited by the gas pilot light of a fridge. Two people were severely burnt and were lucky to survive, luckily their two children were outside the van. One of the adults were burnt trying to save the person who had been refuelling the generator.
I would post the full story here but it is copyright. Not the way you would want your holiday to end.
Duh said
12:53 PM Oct 19, 2013
Dougwe wrote:
Did you see on the right hand side of the first pic, the little kid, how close he is. Maybe not as close as it looks but way too close for my liking.
Sorry to side step a little Joanna.
Yes I notice that too Doug, with this type of fire you get things exploding (eg; gas bottles) and projectiles flying through the air. They did have a couple of small kids who luckily did not get injured so maybe it was one of them.
I have seen one caravan fire and one bus fire, and the whizz bangs going off and flying around in both was scary stuff.
And yes, you still get people refuelling and travelling with their gas fridge on and think it is ok, I just hope they aren't there when I'm alongside them at the pumps.
Here is a snip of the story;
Snip....it all happened within minutes as he prepared to refuel a generator at the Banka Banka Station caravan park, 110km north of Tennant Creek on the Stuart Highway.
He was attempting to remove a metal army-style jerry can from his caravan's drawbar but had difficulty because the warm fuel had expanded.
"I was trying to depressurise the container to get it out of the holder and take it round to fill up the generator at the side of the car," he explained. "Within a quarter of a second of opening the jerry can there was a flash and we were engulfed in flames. The fuel container turned into something like a flame thrower, with flames shooting out of the nozzle."
It is believed the pilot light on a small portable fridge between the caravan and 4WD ignited the fumes.
"There was no way I could stop the flames," 35-year-old Mr xxxxxxx said. "I grabbed a fire extinguisher, but the fire just laughed at it. Other people used their extinguishers but they had zero affect so I told my wife to grab the kids and run."
Mr xxxxx and wife (30) received hospital treatment for burns, but their two children xxxx (3) and xxxxx (1) were unharmed.
The 2005 Windsor Rapid expanda caravan and early series Toyota Landcruiser 80 series factory turbo 4WD were reduced to a mass of charred wood and twisted metal within minutes. "There was nothing anyone could do to save them," Mr xxxxxx said." ....Snip...
(Google Banka Banka Caravan Fire for the whole story)
-- Edited by Duh on Saturday 19th of October 2013 09:50:16 PM
Dougwe said
02:40 PM Oct 19, 2013
Did you see on the right hand side of the first pic, the little kid, how close he is. Maybe not as close as it looks but way too close for my liking.
Sorry to side step a little Joanna.
copper1 said
04:58 PM Oct 19, 2013
Just goes to show that you must always be thinking, who would have thought of a pilot light and fumes, when refuelling your genni!!!!!! hope they recovered from the ordeal and fingers crossed insurance got them back on the road to both recovery and freedom.
Santa said
05:53 PM Oct 19, 2013
copper1 wrote:
who would have thought of a pilot light and fumes, when refuelling your genni!!!!!!
I think most caravaners would, warnings about pilot lights and refueling have been around for as long as I can recall, petrol is pretty volatile stuff.
Nelly said
06:26 PM Oct 19, 2013
This would also apply to some travellers who leave their gas fridge going when travelling and then going to fill up the petrol pump. Scary stuff!!
Santa said
07:53 PM Oct 19, 2013
Nelly wrote:
This would also apply to some travellers who leave their gas fridge going when travelling and then going to fill up the petrol pump. Scary stuff!!
There are signs/notices plastered all over petrol pumps telling people to extinguish all pilot lights before refueling, it's not a hard concept to grasp, petrol fumes/hot day/pilot light burning/boom, game over.
Baz421 said
04:43 AM Oct 20, 2013
Yes it's a very sad story,,,
BUT many GN's STILL REFUEL HOT GENNIES,,,, another accident waiting to happen,,, that's why we like space between us all.
Petrol freezes at roughly -53 degrees C and at ANY temperature above this it can evaporate and has the potential to explode.
Ontos45 said
10:05 AM Oct 20, 2013
That is why I hate gas! Remember the old Electrolux 240VAC/gas only fridges? Had 1 in my first van. No option than to run on gas and stop and turn off before re-fueling then pull up the road to re-light.
Joanna
There are horror stories abounding about the pitfalls of vanning but they (generators) have been used in motorhomes for years. I am in the same situation as you I think. Need an Oxy-concentrator for COPD and use a generator to power it when necessary (the sun don't shine everyday for the panels.) Have used a 2Kva portable but even thats getting too heavy now so have been looking at mounting an electric start generator in a dedicated box on draw bar. Mounting will be on opposite side of gas stove...all fridges are 12VDC. If you are care full and only re-fuel geni when cold a full tank of fuel lasts about 6 hours, plenty of time to use and re-charge batteries. As dddp stated above, earthing is the key to discharge static electricity build up. As in ALL things, think ahead, take care and think again before engaging fingers!
Peter
need a bloody proof reader......
-- Edited by Ontos45 on Sunday 20th of October 2013 10:10:27 AM
-- Edited by Ontos45 on Sunday 20th of October 2013 10:11:21 AM
dddp said
03:30 PM Oct 20, 2013
Also don't forget that unless your fuel container is grounded somewhere along the way when refueling you run the risk of static electricity generating a spark and causing a fire that way too
just as when you fill a fuel container at a petrol station it should be done on the ground to eliminate static electric sparks
Nelly said
06:42 PM Oct 20, 2013
I hate gas also Peter. There was a horror at the coast some years ago - people we knew had a gas fridge/bar fridge in their annex - another gas fridge in the van - a breeze came through the annex put the pilot light out on the fridge in the annex the gas then went into the van and viola! it blew up and even though the fire was contained to that van only the cars/caravans next to them had parts melted on them. Luckily Mum and the little girl were swimming at the time and Dad had gone elsewhere - scary.
Santa said
07:33 PM Oct 20, 2013
I can understand people being concerned when reading about these isolated instances, however we do need to retain some perspective.
We have all heard the horror stories however how often have you actually witnessed a gas incident first hand? they really are pretty rare.
Gas, like petrol, diesel or fire wood is a useful fuel, when used correctly there are no problems, those who choose to ignore the safety rules do so at their own risk, the consequences can be devastating.
Baz421 said
12:58 AM Oct 21, 2013
Santa wrote:
I can understand people being concerned when reading about these isolated instances, however we do need to retain some perspective.
We have all heard the horror stories however how often have you actually witnessed a gas incident first hand? they really are pretty rare.
Gas, like petrol, diesel or fire wood is a useful fuel, when used correctly there are no problems, those who choose to ignore the safety rules do so at their own risk, the consequences can be devastating.
That's what we are talking about,,, take care and NO problems,,,,, as I said that's why we like our space. If I stuff I up I don't want to imact on others.
done dreaming said
03:43 AM Oct 21, 2013
i put a slide out in the back of my cruiser for the gennie so i can use it without having to lift it due to my bad back
Bryan said
05:05 AM Oct 21, 2013
Cummins Onan market a 3.2 diesel generator. I dont know the specs but I suspect it would be heavy. The weight would mean a permanent mount but at least it will be safe.
Bobstar52 said
05:27 AM Oct 21, 2013
Thank you to this site for bring tnis to a newbies attention . I think I have heaps of common sence but maybe my inexperiance with caravaning I may no have tnought to keep the gennie away from the fridge area thanks all
Grumpy Old Man said
07:06 AM Oct 21, 2013
Hey Johanna,
I have my generator in a tool box on the draw bar of the caravan. I have a vent & 12volt fan to expel the fumes. It is electric start which makes it very easy. If the battery fails. I can jumpstart it from the Anderson Plug on the van. All good but remember to cool the generator down before refueling from a PLASTIC jerry can(no static)
Hope this helps
Ontos45 said
02:16 PM Oct 21, 2013
Nelly wrote:
I hate gas also Peter. There was a horror at the coast some years ago - people we knew had a gas fridge/bar fridge in their annex - another gas fridge in the van - a breeze came through the annex put the pilot light out on the fridge in the annex the gas then went into the van and viola! it blew up and even though the fire was contained to that van only the cars/caravans next to them had parts melted on them. Luckily Mum and the little girl were swimming at the time and Dad had gone elsewhere - scary.
Sure was Nelly.
Trouble is, have researched stoves other than gas, metho, diesel, even using a 240VAC induction cooktop (faster than gas) but it either need lots of solar panels or run generator. The other 2 need separate fuel storage and have a smell when using.
All have problems but gas seems the best of the evils.
Peter
Duh said
03:34 PM Oct 21, 2013
OT in regards to generators (sorry Johanna) but if using the cheap portable canister gas stoves (with the gas cans about the size of a can of fly spray), be careful not to use oversize pots or pans, they should be no bigger than that actual gas hotplate if possible.
There have been reported cases of them exploding due to the heat from larger pot/pan base overlapping where the can is situated and the deflected heat from the bottom of the large pot/pans causing the can to explode.
Nelly said
05:10 PM Oct 21, 2013
Never realised that either Duh - thanks for posting it.
PeterD said
07:30 PM Oct 21, 2013
Bryan wrote:
Cummins Onan market a 3.2 diesel generator. I dont know the specs but I suspect it would be heavy. The weight would mean a permanent mount but at least it will be safe.
As you can see they are not only heavy but need permanent installation which needs considerable space.
Bryan said
11:40 PM Oct 21, 2013
PeterD wrote:
Bryan wrote:
Cummins Onan market a 3.2 diesel generator. I dont know the specs but I suspect it would be heavy. The weight would mean a permanent mount but at least it will be safe.
As you can see they are not only heavy but need permanent installation which needs considerable space.
The ones in the links use petrol. The smallest diesel unit is 3.2kva but I don't know how to put the link up. I'm a total dinosaur when it comes to computers.
Welcome to the forum Johanna.......I'm not into generators so will leave others to answer that one.
However if you click on the word "Search" in the blue bar above and then type generators into the search box that comes up there are several threads there on generators, this is one of them, see;
http://thegreynomads.activeboard.com/t52276426/generators/
As for Nomad, that applies to both sexes, so no need to call yourself a Nomady, he he
-- Edited by Duh on Friday 18th of October 2013 12:24:34 AM
but wanting to go on trips further and longer without having to go to roadhouse or caravan parks costing it to much.
Is Nomad male and Nomady female? (just a silly question, but like a answer. Nomady Johanna
As for your question, maybe you could ask mr google, just say something like, "built in caravan generators" and see if anything there. You could even have a chat to a motor home supplier or similar as a lot now have built in ones with electric starter. Worth a try.
You have asked your question in a good spot as there are many knowledgable people in here.
It might help if we know what sort of vehicle you want to power and also the power required.
Eg do you have a large rig that has plenty of room to store the generator and therefore you could buy a large generator with remote control etc.
What appliances would you like to use and also what do you HAVE to use such as for medical requirements etc.
Do you have solar and if so how much and if you have solar are you going to get your regulator to start the generator when the voltage hits a certain SOG or voltage ?
In this world of ours there are many variants, with larger rigs you can have almost whatever you want whilst with small rigs you have to compromise and be a bit more intuitive.
The cost of a good large generator and the cost of the instal you may be able to do the same job with solar and good batteries with a large enough capacity.
I wont bite into the 240v area as there are people who get great pleasure talking about this but if you are not sure yourself get someone who knows what he is doing and that does not mean just an electrician or an autoelec as you need someone who has knowledge in RV installation of 240v as many electricians know household but not RV.
Some travelers make do with a little generator that is easy to carry and start but not heavy on the pocket and you just plug it into the power inlet so no hassles with wiring etc.
I have carried a generator for over 5 years and I think it may have perhaps 20 hours use and mainly for other people so if I did not have it I would not now buy one as with a good solar setup and capable batteries you can survive for a long time and many of us do it full time with no generator or going into parks.
Regards
Brian
We have a 2 KVA Honda permantly mounted in the back of our tray top Patrol with a canapie, just open the back door plug in & pull the handle, no lifting problems, just be carefull with refueling & storage of petrol, I only carrie enough for our needs, depending where we are.
Our van has a 40 amp Smart charger with 2 Full River AGM batterys, we will look at Solar in our next van, if will be our 8th.
Good luck hope this helps.
Also be aware of the way your load (including your generator) is distributed, see these link;
http://www.towingguide.com.au/content/towing_your_trailer.html
http://www.towingcaravans.com.au/guide.html#top
http://www.dpti.sa.gov.au/roadsafety/safer_vehicles/buying_a_safer_caravan_or_camper_trailer
As mentioned already, it would be better to carry a generator inside the towing vehicle rather than on the front tow bar or rear of your caravan. Always refuel away from your van and vehicle, the pic's shown are of a fire from the petrol fumes and fuel from a jerry can (when the cap was opened) which was being used to refuel a generator being ignited by the gas pilot light of a fridge. Two people were severely burnt and were lucky to survive, luckily their two children were outside the van. One of the adults were burnt trying to save the person who had been refuelling the generator.
It happened at Banka Banka station NT in 2009.
I would post the full story here but it is copyright. Not the way you would want your holiday to end.
Yes I notice that too Doug, with this type of fire you get things exploding (eg; gas bottles) and projectiles flying through the air. They did have a couple of small kids who luckily did not get injured so maybe it was one of them.
I have seen one caravan fire and one bus fire, and the whizz bangs going off and flying around in both was scary stuff.
And yes, you still get people refuelling and travelling with their gas fridge on and think it is ok, I just hope they aren't there when I'm alongside them at the pumps.
Here is a snip of the story;
Snip....it all happened within minutes as he prepared to refuel a generator at the Banka Banka Station caravan park, 110km north of Tennant Creek on the Stuart Highway.
He was attempting to remove a metal army-style jerry can from his caravan's drawbar but had difficulty because the warm fuel had expanded.
"I was trying to depressurise the container to get it out of the holder and take it round to fill up the generator at the side of the car," he explained. "Within a quarter of a second of opening the jerry can there was a flash and we were engulfed in flames. The fuel container turned into something like a flame thrower, with flames shooting out of the nozzle."
It is believed the pilot light on a small portable fridge between the caravan and 4WD ignited the fumes.
"There was no way I could stop the flames," 35-year-old Mr xxxxxxx said. "I grabbed a fire extinguisher, but the fire just laughed at it. Other people used their extinguishers but they had zero affect so I told my wife to grab the kids and run."
Mr xxxxx and wife (30) received hospital treatment for burns, but their two children xxxx (3) and xxxxx (1) were unharmed.
The 2005 Windsor Rapid expanda caravan and early series Toyota Landcruiser 80 series factory turbo 4WD were reduced to a mass of charred wood and twisted metal within minutes. "There was nothing anyone could do to save them," Mr xxxxxx said." ....Snip...
(Google Banka Banka Caravan Fire for the whole story)
-- Edited by Duh on Saturday 19th of October 2013 09:50:16 PM
Sorry to side step a little Joanna.
Just goes to show that you must always be thinking, who would have thought of a pilot light and fumes, when refuelling your genni!!!!!! hope they recovered from the ordeal and fingers crossed insurance got them back on the road to both recovery and freedom.
I think most caravaners would, warnings about pilot lights and refueling have been around for as long as I can recall, petrol is pretty volatile stuff.
There are signs/notices plastered all over petrol pumps telling people to extinguish all pilot lights before refueling, it's not a hard concept to grasp, petrol fumes/hot day/pilot light burning/boom, game over.
Yes it's a very sad story,,,
BUT many GN's STILL REFUEL HOT GENNIES,,,, another accident waiting to happen,,, that's why we like space between us all.
Petrol freezes at roughly -53 degrees C and at ANY temperature above this it can evaporate and has the potential to explode.
That is why I hate gas! Remember the old Electrolux 240VAC/gas only fridges? Had 1 in my first van. No option than to run on gas and stop and turn off before re-fueling then pull up the road to re-light.
Joanna
There are horror stories abounding about the pitfalls of vanning but they (generators) have been used in motorhomes for years.
I am in the same situation as you I think. Need an Oxy-concentrator for COPD and use a generator to power it when necessary (the sun don't shine everyday for the panels.) Have used a 2Kva portable but even thats getting too heavy now so have been looking at mounting an electric start generator in a dedicated box on draw bar. Mounting will be on opposite side of gas stove...all fridges are 12VDC. If you are care full and only re-fuel geni when cold a full tank of fuel lasts about 6 hours, plenty of time to use and re-charge batteries. As dddp stated above, earthing is the key to discharge static electricity build up.
As in ALL things, think ahead, take care and think again before engaging fingers!
Peter
need a bloody proof reader......
-- Edited by Ontos45 on Sunday 20th of October 2013 10:10:27 AM
-- Edited by Ontos45 on Sunday 20th of October 2013 10:11:21 AM
just as when you fill a fuel container at a petrol station it should be done on the ground to eliminate static electric sparks
I can understand people being concerned when reading about these isolated instances, however we do need to retain some perspective.
We have all heard the horror stories however how often have you actually witnessed a gas incident first hand? they really are pretty rare.
Gas, like petrol, diesel or fire wood is a useful fuel, when used correctly there are no problems, those who choose to ignore the safety rules do so at their own risk, the consequences can be devastating.
That's what we are talking about,,, take care and NO problems,,,,, as I said that's why we like our space. If I stuff I up I don't want to imact on others.
i put a slide out in the back of my cruiser for the gennie so i can use it without having to lift it due to my bad back
Hey Johanna,
I have my generator in a tool box on the draw bar of the caravan. I have a vent & 12volt fan to expel the fumes. It is electric start which makes it very easy. If the battery fails. I can jumpstart it from the Anderson Plug on the van. All good but remember to cool the generator down before refueling from a PLASTIC jerry can(no static)
Hope this helps
Sure was Nelly.
Trouble is, have researched stoves other than gas, metho, diesel, even using a 240VAC induction cooktop (faster than gas) but it either need lots of solar panels or run generator. The other 2 need separate fuel storage and have a smell when using.
All have problems but gas seems the best of the evils.
Peter
OT in regards to generators (sorry Johanna) but if using the cheap portable canister gas stoves (with the gas cans about the size of a can of fly spray), be careful not to use oversize pots or pans, they should be no bigger than that actual gas hotplate if possible.
There have been reported cases of them exploding due to the heat from larger pot/pan base overlapping where the can is situated and the deflected heat from the bottom of the large pot/pans causing the can to explode.
Here are some links to the Onan generators:
Link 1 Link 2 Link 3
As you can see they are not only heavy but need permanent installation which needs considerable space.
The ones in the links use petrol. The smallest diesel unit is 3.2kva but I don't know how to put the link up. I'm a total dinosaur when it comes to computers.