I'm about to launch myself into the wild blue tomorrow for my first shakedown trip... a whole 17km down the road at Wingham Brush. Soooooo, I thought I'd give the old fridge a head start by firing it up overnight on house power. Then I discovered that the van input won't accept a normal domestic extension cord because the third pin (I think that's the earth pin) is wider than normal. Does that have something to do with amps? The extension lead is 10amp. I need a new extension lead, right? Can someone tell me what type and where I can buy it? Meanwhile, I'll fire the fridge up on gas early in the morning. I'm not leaving until about 1pm and I'll use frozen bricks to help it along. It's a 240V/gas Electrolux - no 12V.

The van input is a Clipsal IP34.

brian wrote:

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2. Replace the RV inlet with a 10 amp one and then use a 10 amp extension cord.

---

 You are nearly there Brian. That should have read:

"2. Replace the RV inlet with a 10 amp one, replace the circuit breaker/safety switch with a 10 A unit and then use a 10 amp extension cord.

Noting of course that all the replacement should be done by an electrical contractor.

When we park in the s-i-law's driveway, we use 15 amp lead from the van connected to an adapter (below) which plugs into the normal powerpoint in the garage.

It's not an "amphibian" but lots cheaper, but... not weatherproof so keep it dry. Got ours from the Jayco shop.

We also use the same set up at home before we travel to "charge" the fridge.

Maybe I could have made that point Peter, however, as most RVs have more than one RCBO installed, changing them to a lower amperage does not change the ratio.

Consider changing 2 in a van from 16 amps to 10 amps, you can still theoretically draw 20 amps through the 10 amp lead just as you could have drawn 30 amps through the 15 amp lead.

In both instances, you are relying on the integrity of the upstream current limiting device for protection, and realistically, the 16 amp breaker in the house will activate before any problems occur with the 10 amp lead even if the RCBOs are left as is. 

brian wrote:

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Maybe I could have made that point Peter, however, as most RVs have more than one RCBO installed, changing them to a lower amperage does not change the ratio.

Consider changing 2 in a van from 16 amps to 10 amps, you can still theoretically draw 20 amps through the 10 amp lead just as you could have drawn 30 amps through the 15 amp lead.

In both instances, you are relying on the integrity of the upstream current limiting device for protection, and realistically, the 16 amp breaker in the house will activate before any problems occur with the 10 amp lead even if the RCBOs are left as is.

[END quote}

HI Brian

Sorry but I have to disagree 

I am surprised that you would suggest that that ANY installation should be able to draw 30A continious from a l5A cable

THe  Amfibian & other portable outlet boxes & even power board strips SHALL have current limiting OLCBS to the Supply PLUG rating

t  The Extension lead & inlet socket SHALL be protected by an OLCB of the same rating.IF the inlet socket is changed to 10A ,a10 A OLCB must be fitted in the van.

IF the"Transportable Structure" has mutlitple OLCB protected circuits on one innlet supply,  it will require a MAIN RCD OLCB, RATEd to the SUPPLY socket ,on the main inlet feed

That is the way many are done & SHOULD BE DONE

IF a 15A inlet socket is fitted a 16A olcb must be fitted  

Those vans with TWO inlets must each have their own 16A RCD /'OLCB AND each INLET socket must be taken from a seperate power pole outlet

NO DOUBLE ADAPTERS or power boafds!!!

I suggest a good read of AS/NZS 3000 "wiring rules" & 3001 "Transportable Structures"

PeterQ

-- Edited by oldtrack123 on Thursday 17th of October 2013 08:59:44 PM

oldtrack123 wrote:

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brian wrote:

---

Maybe I could have made that point Peter, however, as most RVs have more than one RCBO installed, changing them to a lower amperage does not change the ratio.

Consider changing 2 in a van from 16 amps to 10 amps, you can still theoretically draw 20 amps through the 10 amp lead just as you could have drawn 30 amps through the 15 amp lead.

In both instances, you are relying on the integrity of the upstream current limiting device for protection, and realistically, the 16 amp breaker in the house will activate before any problems occur with the 10 amp lead even if the RCBOs are left as is.

[END quote}

HI Brian

Sorry but I have to disagree 

I am surprised that you would suggest that that ANY installation should be able to draw 30A continious from a l5A cable

That's not what I said Peter, I said that you could theoretically draw 30 amps, this is in the context of there being at least two 15 amp breakers in the RV, 2 x 15 = 30

The point being made is that the ratio of 50% remains for 2 x 15 =30 connected to a 15 amp inlet, or 2 x 10 =20 connected to a 10 amp inlet. In either case, the sum of the maximum currents of both breakers will exceed the capacity of the lead. The upstream over-current device will be the ruling factor.

How else would you explain the wiring rules allowing multiple 10 amp double GPOs on one circuit protected by a 16 amp breaker, the sum of the currents which could go over  2000 amps. The upstream breaker becomes the ultimate control of the circuit's maximum demand. It's called diversity.

Therefore the question of whether the downsteam breakers are 10 or 15 amp becomes of little value

 

 

 

PeterQ

brian wrote:

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That's not what I said Peter, I said that you could theoretically draw 30 amps, this is in the context of there being at least two 15 amp breakers in the RV, 2 x 15 = 30

[1]The point being made is that the ratio of 50% remains for 2 x 15 =30 connected to a 15 amp inlet, or 2 x 10 =20 connected to a 10 amp inlet. In either case, the sum of the maximum currents of both breakers will exceed the capacity of the lead. The upstream over-current device will be the ruling factor.

[2]How else would you explain the wiring rules allowing multiple 10 amp double GPOs on one circuit protected by a 16 amp breaker, the sum of the currents which could go over  2000 amps. The upstream breaker becomes the ultimate control of the circuit's maximum demand. It's called diversity.

[3]Therefore the question of whether the downsteam breakers are 10 or 15 amp becomes of little value

.

[4]But you haven't changed the breakers in the RV have you, and that's what is under discussion here.

[5]The above statement is a little contradictory, the overload protection needs to be upstream, ie, before the lead, not after it as you are suggesting. An Ampfibian protects the downstream lead, there is no legal requirement to reduce the breaker sizes in the van from 16 amp to 10 amp when using an Ampfibian as would be the case if your statement were true.

 End Quotes

 

Hi Brian

 

[1]You do not seem to understand that the TWO 15A  SUB CIRCUITS while they can have their own 16A OLCB they must have a 16A OLCB ahead of them as a main OLCB in the "'Transportable stucture"

The maximum CONTINIOUS current drawn ,through the 15A Extension lead , .plugs, & sockets cannot exceed 16A[The SAFE current rating of the extension cable plugs & SOCKETS]

 

[2] You surprise me with that statement

Yes, diversity is applied to the WIRING

BUT you seem to miss the point as do many non ELects

IT IS THE PLUGs, SWITCHES & SOCKETS THAT are being protected from overload then indirectly the cable, since again under the relevant standards a lead ,.extension cable ,SHALL not have a socket or plug rated higher than the cable rating!!

In that situation you quote, EACH & EVERY SOCKET IS LOAD LIMITED TO 10A by the Mandatorily fitted 10A plug.

Under the applicable standards te cable & plug fitted to the device /appliance must be rated correctly for the actual load

I suggest you have a good think about the differences between THAT & a SINGLE 15A extension lead feeding "Transportable structure""

[3]the down stream breakers are there to protect the cables on the circuit that they are ahead off!!They cannot be rated higher than the CABLES they are protecting

They can have a the same rated MAIN olcb or if the main circuit is heavier a higher rated main olcb

ie multiple subcircuit 10A olcbs with a 16A MAIN  olcb at the input

[4[] You seem to have missed the point that IF THE "Transportable STructure power inlet is changed to 10A It is a MANDATORY requirement fot the main 16A olcb to be changed to 10A ,NO matter what other rated OLCBs are downstream

THE MAX continious load on the 10plugs ,sockets ,& cables feeding the "Transportable structure" IS LIMITED to 10A

 

[5]You perhaps have not read the Standards applicable to Epods ,,power boards, Clipsal etc type portable outlet boxes or the Amphibian 

Among many points is a limit on the cable length between the lower rated plug & the matching rated OLCB

The 15A plugs & sockets are limited to 10A continious by the 10A OLCB!

With the multi10A outlet strips, again, they are now required to have  an inbuitt 10A olcb

None of that is in anyway similar to a domestic situation diversity factor!!

Of course you are aware that in that situation the power circuit OLCB purpose is to protect the cables & in the case of 2.5 mmX cables can be 20A

simply because it is not there to protect the plugs & sockets

Snly a quite short length is not protected IF a short developed before the inbuilt 10A olcb

 

 

Perhaps you misunderstood there is no suggestion or requirement to change the 'Transportable structure 16A breaker if an Ampfibian is being used

BUT

IF JUST THE INLET IS changed to A 10A & naturaly THAT means a 10A extension lead connected to a10A outlet socket ,THE TRANSPORTABLE Structure MAIN RCD SHALL BE CHANGED TO 10A

PeterQ

Santa wrote:

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Why oh why do these threads on electrics go on at great length and interminably, spouting reams of dubious information.

 

I very much doubt the wisdom of allowing this type of advice being given by all and sundry in a forum type situation.

 

My feeling is if you don't have qualifications in the appropriate field, don't offer advice, and if you are qualified, don't offer advice, it will only take one successful legal action to have forums ducking for cover.

 

Many forums disallow this type of thread already, and in my opinion are quite justified in doing so.

 

If you need electrical advice, call an electrician.

---

 HI Santa

No doubt some people would rather remain in the dark & just do their own thing

BUT THAT could end up with injury or death to some innocent party

The real problem is sorting the wheat from  the chaff!!

Of course IF one is not interested in the subject , no one is forced to read!!

Others may gain some knowledge of the rights & wrongs &  mend their ways

P

Then of course the "electrician" you call may not be up on the subject either

Many have no idea that the STandards AS/NZS 3000 "Transportable Strucures & tjeir power supplies" even exists

BUT I totally agree with your"My feeling is if you don't have qualifications in the appropriate field, don't offer advice, and if you are qualified, don't offer advice, it will only take one successful legal action to have forums ducking for""

I do not give specific details on HOW any low voltage wiring should /could be done for that very reason,& always state get a  LICENSED ELECTRICIAN  with proven knowlege on the subject in question TO DO ANY SUCH WIRING

PeterQ

-- Edited by oldtrack123 on Friday 18th of October 2013 07:50:22 PM

oldtrack123 wrote:

---

---

 HI Santa

No doubt some people would rather remain in the dark & just do their own thing

BUT THAT could end up with injury or death to some innocent party

The real problem is sorting the wheat from  the chaff!!

Of course IF one is not interested in the subject , no one is forced to read!!

Others may gain some knowledge of the rights & wrongs &  mend their ways

P

Then of course the "electrician" you call may not be up on the subject either

Many have no idea that the STandards AS/NZS 3000 "Transportable Strucures & tjeir power supplies" even exists

 

BUT I totally agree with your"My feeling is if you don't have qualifications in the appropriate field, don't offer advice, and if you are qualified, don't offer advice, it will only take one successful legal action to have forums ducking for""

I do not give specific details on HOW any low voltage wiring should /could be done for that very reason,& always state get a  LICENSED ELECTRICIAN  with proven knowlege on the subject in question TO DO ANY SUCH WIRING

 

PeterQ

 

-- Edited by oldtrack123 on Friday 18th of October 2013 07:50:22 PM

-- Edited by oldtrack123 on Friday 18th of October 2013 07:57:23 PM

---

 Evening Peter,

Not suggesting for a minute that people not seek enlightenment.

What I am trying to say is that if you don't know the answer to an electrical problem it would be foolhardy to act on advice given by an unknown person on a public forum.

Why oh why do these threads on electrics go on at great length and interminably, spouting reams of dubious information.

I very much doubt the wisdom of allowing this type of advice being given by all and sundry in a forum type situation.

My feeling is if you don't have qualifications in the appropriate field, don't offer advice, and if you are qualified, don't offer advice, it will only take one successful legal action to have forums ducking for cover.

Many forums disallow this type of thread already, and in my opinion are quite justified in doing so.

If you need electrical advice, call an electrician.

There you go Garry, all that to tell you the above.

The Amfibian does anyone have a current price as I think bit over $100 someone on this site said they paid. $110 in 2013 think it was from a caravan place.

Have a great trip, don't forget thermos as you are travelling so far...maybe packed lunch as well.

Hope all goes a treat.

Robyn

My Amp-Fibian cost me $148 when I bought it about a year and a half ago - don't know what today's price is !

Seems they're about $250 plus postage if you haven't got a dealer near you. http://ampfibian.com.au/store/rv-02/

leevin wrote:

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The cheap Amphibian had no safety switch.
The $250 unit has an RCD.
I bought the $250 unit as the rumour at the time was that all such devices must have an RCD.

---

When I bought my Amp-fibian the RV-01 was the ONLY model available - the upgraded RV-02 with RCD came out AFTER I bought mine. I notice that the RV-02 is now the ONLY one they sell, the original RV-01 now being discontinued - I know that some of the electrical approval standards have changed in recent times (which is why the RV-01 is no longer sold), BUT the changes are not applied retrospectively to earlier models. I could throw away $150 and spend another $250 on the newer one, but I'm happy with my RV-01 as I only use it at my home and am protected by the RCD on my house main switchboard which covers the circuit that the Amp-fibian plugs into.

The RV-01 does not include a Residual Current Device (RCD) so it is not intended to protect the user of devices plugged into it from electric shock. It is recommended that the RV-01 be used in conjunction with devices that have their own RCD protection. Use the RV-02 where RCD (safety switch) is required.

A good understanding of the AMPFIBIAN's intended application is of high importance. A common application for the RV-01 would be with a caravan or motorhome that has RCD protection already built into its wiring system ..... OR ..... the point of supply has RCD protection. If the intended device to be used with AMPFIBIAN does not have RCD protection then the RV-02 may be better suited to your needs. If RCD protection can be guaranteed then the RV-01 is acceptable.

There is also the possibility that you may actually have up to 3 RCD's in series- one on your house main switchboard, one in the Amp-fibian, and one on the van switchboard. With minor variations in sensitivity between the 3 RCD's, you don't know which one of the 3 will trip first, so you have to physically check all 3 devices to ensure the power is off, before you reset the affected RCD and attempt to restore power to the van.

ShortNorth wrote:

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Snip--------

There is also the possibility that you may actually have up to 3 RCD's in series- one on your house main switchboard, one in the Amp-fibian, and one on the van switchboard. With minor variations in sensitivity between the 3 RCD's, you don't know which one of the 3 will trip first, so you have to physically check all 3 devices to ensure the power is off, before you reset the affected RCD and attempt to restore power to the van.

---

HI 

The snipped section is all very true & a good explanation of the differences[ & reasonsfor] between the two types 

Butthe above, IMHO, is not quite correct]

Yes each rcd may have slightly different tripping characteristics, leading to the one with the lowest tripping current being the one to trip

 But

[a]There is no necessity to turn all the others 'OFF"

Simply reset the one that tripped

[c]If it trips again  you need to have the set upchecked by a licensed electrician

[d]The fault will always be downsream of the breaker that tripped

[e]IF you wish to pin down the location of the fault a little more , turning OFF all the RCDs downstream of the tripped unit, then progressivly turning them on starting @ the unit electrical nearest downstram of the triping unit

can indicate the "location" of the fault a little better

PeterQ