sarg wrote:

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Hi Lance, I have a '84 Viscount poptop and no it isn't fitted with an overload circuit breaker as Ozjohn above stated. I have done quite quite few renovations and will be in the near future be fitting one myself, for safety reasons as I do intend to travel in it fulltime soon.

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HI

Better make sure ,you get the right type ,or you may make it less safe!!! 

PeterQ

Not unless it was an after market addition as there was no legal requirement back then for them to be installed. They cost money and manufacturers (especially beck then) don't like spending anymore than they legally have to.
But if you updating the electrics then one will be required (Fitted by a licenced electrician), or alternatively have one fitted for increased protection of the van and it's occupants and for piece of mind.
Ozjohn.

Aus-Kiwi wrote:

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 .
If not wired in you can use an extension cord / board with protection..

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 HI

NOT between the power supply socket & the van INLET socket!!!

IF you ever intend to use a generator or inverter plugged into the VAN inlet socket it could be worth considering a URCD

These give shock protection with both mains supply& isolated supplies such as small portable generators & inverters

PeterQ

oldtrack123 wrote:

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sarg wrote:

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Hi Lance, I have a '84 Viscount poptop and no it isn't fitted with an overload circuit breaker as Ozjohn above stated. I have done quite quite few renovations and will be in the near future be fitting one myself, for safety reasons as I do intend to travel in it fulltime soon.

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HI

Better make sure ,you get the right type ,or you may make it less safe!!! 

 

PeterQ

 

-- Edited by oldtrack123 on Friday 6th of September 2013 07:22:47 PM

 

 

Don't worry PeterQ,  I am an Ex Sparky so I will get the correct type to make all safe in van. 

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Aus-Kiwi wrote:

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[1]The lead/ power board was the last resort .. No chance of getting polarities wrong..

[2]Yes it should have protection at generator..

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HI

[1]Perhaps not in NewZealand, but most definately in Aus!!

the Standard AS/NZS 3001 is very specific about what sort of power board can be used with "Transportable Structures"

It virtually rules out the general run of the mill multi outlet power boards including such as ARLEC ,Clipsal ETC 

[2]What sort of protection?

A RCD cannot operate with a fully isolated generator!

So how should it be protected??

PeterQ

Aus-Kiwi wrote:

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[1]There should be some sort of protection at gen set.. Our one has 15 on each phase..
With 10 amp breakers inside..

[2]A residual current device is required when connected to supply ..
[3]What is used as protection outside GPO has nothing to do with Transportable Structures..
In no way was I inferring to use transportable boards as fixed ..

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Hi

[1]Yes, the generator will have some form of inbuilt overload protection

To protect the generator !!

BUt your explanation of your's seems to be a little confusing

quote "ONE on each phase "

HOW many phases does your small portble generator have??

One OR three??/

Are you talking about a small portable generator such as RVer's use or a permanently connected supply to a home etc??

THERE IS A BIG DIFFERENCE

[2]    A RCD cannot function with the standardl small portable generators as used by Rvers

It does not matter if the RCD is in the van or a plug in type[in a power box or multi outlet unit,s

IT CANNOT FUNCTION!!!

[3]

Perhaps you could explain just what you mean???

I certainly do not understand

What you mean by

quote "]A residual current device is required when connected to supply"

What supply are you referring to?

The generator as a supply to the van ?

Generator connected to mains SUPPLY ?

or mains supply to the van?

 WHAT GPO are you referring to??

 I  beleive the OP was referring to use in/with ,a "TRANSPORTABLE STRUCTURE "

Covered BY AS/NZS 3001 "TRANSPORTABLE STRUCtURES & THEIR POWER SUPPLIES"!!

PeterQ

Aus-Kiwi wrote:

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[1]Most caravans have external plugs to supply power inside..

2]The rules state that power from external device requires an "approved" protection..

[3]The OP didn't say if he had a generator ??

[4]If its fed from outside mains it would have separate earth and neutral where an RCD should work..

[5]The generator I have is a diesel 8Kw 3 phase the gen set. Which I use for welding etc when there no power available.
[6]In my motorhome is a built in Onan 4 kw..
I have an RCD on both circuits..
Much the same as domestic houses..

[7]I understand due to direct earth with small gen sets the RCD won't work ..
BUT that wasn't the OP question..
He only wanted to know where overload switch was and if fitted..

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Hi

[1]MOst caravans have an approved MALE  INLET SOCKET mounted on the van[not a plug] That mis nomer can be confusing

[2]

It Is an old van,overload protection was not required in the van in those days as others have said /

"He will not find one unless it has been updated!! 

[3] True , the op did not say a generator but it did enter the thread,with various comments including your own somewhat irelavant comments which had nothing to do with SMALL PORTABLE GENERATORS as used by RVers

[4Yes, IF a RCD was fitted [but not required at the time [1980]

it would operate when connected to MAINS supply but a generate plugged into the van would not have an operational RCD ,even if one was fitted.

[5] Then your comment regarding fuses on all phases was errelevant to the thread

[6]Your motor home complies with the Standards applicable at the time it was built

Since the GENERATOR is inbuilt & PERMANENTLY wired ,IT IS REQUIRED TO HAVE RCD protection &being 4kW would,iI suggest ,be feeding several  circuits 

Each circuit depending on cable sizes would require their OWN overload circuit brakers but do not require their own individual RCD

ONE master RCD is all that is required.

IF the MH has MORE than one MAINS inlet SOCKET, It has to have seperated 240V lines[not phases] & circuits within the MH

EACH incoming circuit from the MAINS supply requires IT,s own RCD &OLCB

[7] see [3]

PeterQ

Aus-Kiwi wrote:

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Exactly .. 
[1]..
An RCD works different to ELCB ..

[2]

Would rather have separate RCD on light and power circuit as there's
nothing more annoying in having the lights go out in the dark..
Any issues seem to only happen when you least want it !!

[3]

If you have solar/ battaries ? They are usually DC 12 v anyway..

[4]

The suggestion of using power board was from gpo inside van..
NOT to be used as hard wired ..Less chance of overloading power lead..
Much better than no breaker at all relying on house protection..

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Hi

[1] ELCBs "Earth Leakage Core  Balance" circuit breakers, work on EXACTLY the same principles as RCDs

RCD is a relativel NEW name for the same device .

"ELCB" circuit breakers have been in use since the 50s

I KNOW because the company I worked for was the Qld Distributor for the Klockner Mouller brand 

I had to sort out many a problem when they were retro fitted to systems with low insulation values[leakage currents to earth , upsetting the balance between active & neutral with in the unit ]& customers complained they were faulity

The Australian Standards even used the term "ELCB"for many years

[2] Agree & the Standards NOW make that recommendation.

[3]yes ,usually12V but also some 24V,even 24V solar systems charging 12V batteries

[4]Yes,for use IN THE VAN, provided the power board is fitted withan inbuilt 10A OLCB 

 PeterQ

Aus-Kiwi wrote:

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[1]

Yes the RCD functions slightly different in that it doesn't require its OWN earth to trip.
!
[2]Can have issues with them tripping on old fridges etc..

[3]The issue is in motorhome or van there's not many things earthed..

[4 As in a home, any thing connected to water mains in earthed..
Sink, shower, taps etc
To get a shock you need to be between different potential ..
Other than being between active and neutral where an RCD wont protect ..
Your basically a lineworker or bird on a wire..
I know in a public forum. Have to be carefull suggesting things that are done by licenced people..

[5]One thing for sure you should run your power led to van from home RCD..
Its law in caravan parks, yet I know, seen many that don't at home..
Many homes in cities still don't have them !!

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HI

[1]THE "ELCBS I referred to ,did not require their own  earth connection

THEY worked on EXACTLY the same principles as  RCDs!

THEY were RCDs by another widely accepted & recognised name,"ELCB"

The unit you are perhaps referring to were more a voltage sensing unit,NOT current sensing

They detected a voltage to Mother earth where such indicated a fault developing ,mainly used on power lines

Somewhat similar to the "UNIVERSAL RCD" I mentioned

[2]YES, due to low insulation values such as I posted

[3]

All   Class1 equipment in a motor home van {Transportavble structure SHALL be earthed ]just as any other situation

BUt Earth does not necessarily mean mother earth or by means of an earth stake

It simply means an eqipotentially bonded earthing SYSTEM.

Strict rules define what SHALL be connected  [equipontentially bonded] to that earthing system, but they include chassis, body parts, metalic,  panels, windows, door ,frames  metalic covering etc

All done very carefully to avoid problems.with high  DC currents  

In fact a "TRANSPORTABLE STRUCTURE does not require an EARTH stake & should not be deliberately connected to anyway to mother EARTH except by the EARTHING conduct of the mains connection extension lead

[5]If the house has a RCD it will/should  cover ALL power outlet sockets

If the "Transportable Structure has a RCD fitted then All in the van will be protected by that RCD from shocks to the VAN earthing system &/ or mother earth when connected to MAINS supply

Retrospective fitting of RCDs in ALL homes it not quite mandatory YET, but expect it soon.

OLder homes ,pre around the 80s did not require RCDs 

& fitting such depends on individual STATES regulations

In Qld

Aall home for rental purposes are required to have RCDs fitted

ALL homes when sold are required to have RCDs fitted

Unfortunately MANY older CPS /show grounds etc DO NOT HAVE RCDs fitted at this time[again the rules are not retrospective]

PeterQ