Let me just say firstly that I'm not trying to stir the pot...far from it...and I'm not making excuses for the perpetrators.
I just think we need to keep in mind that the members on here are mostly baby boomers and older. Therefore it stands to reason that some members may be heading into Dementia and/or Alzheimers. That person may not have a partner to make them aware that they're having symptoms. Or they're in denial.
And from my experience with my dear late Mum, they can get cranky over the silliest things, and come out with the craziest notions.
As I said, I'm not making excuses for anyone, just pointing out the facts of aging.
-- Edited by Beth54 on Monday 5th of August 2013 06:14:25 PM
Beth54 said
11:11 PM Aug 5, 2013
I know what you mean about idiot doctors grams. Mum's was a shocker and Dads wasn't much better. Yet they insist on staying with them and not getting a second opinion.
-- Edited by Beth54 on Monday 5th of August 2013 11:16:23 PM
dazren said
02:10 AM Aug 6, 2013
Agree with you there Beth ?? A lot of Truth and Fact in your statement
neilnruth said
02:22 AM Aug 6, 2013
I had just been to visit my dear old Dad who has dementia and is in a dementia unit. Came home and was putting my things away and found myself putting my dressing gown on instead of hanging it in the wardrobe. Oh dear, I said, here comes dementia.
But an Aged Care nurse working in dementia had told us at a seminar that there is always the 'Ahh Factor'. While ever you can still say 'Ahh! That's where I left my keys' or (in my case) 'Ahh, I don't need to wear my gown I need to hang it up.' then you don't have dementia. It's when you find your keys but never remember that you had even lost them that you are heading for dementia. Sadly, it's a long, sad farewell to the ones you love. And you have to put up with the disagreements along the way.
I have no idea what your opening post is referring to Beth (I've been away for a while) but it's good to make a note of what happens as you age.
Grams said
02:47 AM Aug 6, 2013
Both my parents are in their late 70's, I swear my dad has dementia, but my mum is in denial. My dad forgets who I am sometimes, he looks at me like I'm insane because I am talking to him, then all of a sudden you see it register on his face I'm his youngest child. It's sad that what he was, he no longer is...
I have often gone into a room, and stood there wondering why I am there. I go back out and then it comes to me lol
I put something down, not in it's original place and I forget where I put it....now it all has a place to go.
I even forgot my name the other day, when someone asked me on the phone, you know one of those 'blank' moments.
Plus many more...
I have put all these down to all the brains cells that die when having low blood sugar, it affects memory first, which is a buggar.
neilnruth said
02:56 AM Aug 6, 2013
Grams did you know that if you are concerned about your Dad you can actually tell his GP? The spouse is often in denial because they are scared of what the future might be like. Just a word with the GP in confidence will alert him to check next time he sees your Dad. You could even tell GP that you think your Mum is denying it.
Emotionalinstability,andprogressivelossofmentalability. Thank God my Intellect is as sharp as a butter knife, or so Julie says, ...Greeting all you unstable baby boomers, and a big Howdyeeeee to all confused excited fruite loops,,,,,,,,,,, I Salute you all,, stay excited, and enjoy the play ground,, its a gift , given to us ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Billeeeeeee
Grams did you know that if you are concerned about your Dad you can actually tell his GP? The spouse is often in denial because they are scared of what the future might be like. Just a word with the GP in confidence will alert him to check next time he sees your Dad. You could even tell GP that you think your Mum is denying it.
Thanks for the heads up, my dads GP is a moron, he passes my dads license every year, even though my dad has to be told where he is going (normal daily trip to the shops in the car) by my mum. Sometimes he will suddenly pull over as he forgot where he was going. He used to drive to the city, but it scares him to have a truck pass him the other way, and he doesn't like veering off onto the shoulder as it was ruining his tyres so now he just drives around the big town they live in.
my mum doesn't drive and she would hate to walk to the end of her street to catch the local bus every year I hope he loses his license...but no his GP just signs the paperwork. The idiot.
Colls said
07:04 AM Aug 6, 2013
My mother is in care for her dementia. It has caused a huge amount of anxt between the family. When I first needed help with her and family were in denial I made an appointment at the local hosp. in the aged care section. The first thing they did was an ACAT assessment and she passed with flying colours. From there was to a psych and it was him that said no more license. It was a relief.
Not sure if the states differ but in WA a family member can contact the police with concerns. It is noted down and the next licence renewal is a drivers check. Mum drove well enough, seemed to know where she was going but when it came to the questions....she failed.
I miss my Mum.
Colls
Beth54 said
10:37 AM Aug 6, 2013
Dad looked after Mum for 2 years after heart attacks which left her with Dementia. But he was buggered by then, and told us he couldn't do it any longer. (It was his choice to care for her at home.) On the advise of someone in the system, we took Mum to the ED at the Mater and told them Dad couldn't cope, and none of us were in a position to have her fulltime. It was all on her file so they did some basic tests there in ED and admitted her. 2 weeks later the ACAT lady found a care facility for her and 6 weeks later she was gone.
It was a totally different story with Dad. He had his marbles right up to his last day. He chose to give up his licence when Mum became ill. Mum really didn't remember that she drove so her licence wasn't a problem. And Dad chose to go into care about a year before his passing. He was very happy where he was, and he always had lots of visitors.
For us, it was awful to see Mum in that state, but like Jules said, we remember those funny moments now. When in the Mater, she thought she was waiting for a train. While in care, she asked me to bring her an ice cream, but a particular one. I couldn't work out which one she was talking about, and she said 'you're brain's worse than mine!'
We were lucky that Mum always knew who we were.
-- Edited by Beth54 on Tuesday 6th of August 2013 10:38:34 AM
Gerty Dancer said
03:24 PM Aug 6, 2013
That's the thing isn't it Colls, you lose your parent gradually long before they actually pass away. My Mum died with dementia many years ago and she didn't get good care basically because Dad wouldn't allow it.
jules47 said
04:34 PM Aug 6, 2013
My mum had Alzheimers, and died from the complications of it - she just forgot how to breathe! But she hadn't been "my mum" for over five years before her death - didn't know me or anyone else for a long time - took a long time to get over that. I now remember the funny things she said - like "someone has stolen my cigarettes" (she never smoked in her life) - or "they can take my legs now" (I believe she had lost feeling in her legs).
On another note -re the licence - you can contact the Road Traffic Authority in your state with your concerns - and that the doctor just signs the paper every year - they will do something about it - we did this for an old guy who was a danger to everyone on the road, especially himself - didn't park his car in the street, more like abandoned it where he was driving - 6 feet or so from the gutter!!!!!
QueenKombi said
08:36 PM Aug 6, 2013
This is a very interesting discussion. I work in Geriatric Mental Health and we often see people, not always males, who have become too big a handful for the nurses working in an aged care environment. They've simply never been trained to deal with violent residents.
The people that we see have often been loving and caring parents, have had very productive and successful lives and have laid the foundations for a bountiful lifestyle for their children and grandchildren, yet at times they become violent, impulsive people which is totally out of character to the way they've presented in the past. The ABC recently ran a story on dementia related violence in aged care settings and it was a real eye-opener! The staff are not always trained to deal with it, after all, that's not why they chose to work in aged care and of course there are never enough nurses in high level aged settings at the best of times, so nurses and co-residents are being continuously subjected to violent behaviours. And what can you do? It's a problem that's becoming worse.
I'm not sure building more specific dementia places for people like that is entirely the answer either, even in the unlikely event that out Governments would cough for the funding. How do you get young nurses to work in an environment where they're constantly subjected to aggressive and sometimes violent behaviours? And they need to be young and fit enough to handle such residents as Alzheimers and various other dementias are being seen in increasingly younger and younger people. One chap we had for a long time was only in his early 70's and as strong as an ox. He was quick to take offence at the slightest provocation and in the blink of an eye he'd throw a punch at your face, yet the photo album his wife had brought in showed a very different man. Looking through it and seeing how he'd been only a couple of years ago brought a tear to my eye.
This is a problem that will only get worse as Government funding is directed to other areas. There's just not enough tax money to go around and the situation in nursing homes can only deteriorate. I've already decided that I'll never see the inside of a nursing home......... but you can never plan for the unexpected!!
neilnruth said
09:23 PM Aug 6, 2013
I belong to a careers support group because of my Dad. One lady has a husband who has reverted to his native language and so is hard to communicate with. He was recently in a general hospital and like QueenKombi says, becomes violent over a small thing. So they sent him to the psyche hospital - where they only knew how to deal with mental patients and that was even worse - he became more violent and they didn't know how to handle him. His wife was travelling an hour every day to help with his care. She is so tiny I don't know how she copes with him as he is big and becomes very strong.
My own Dad is using words he would never have used and doing nasty things to other people. That is hard to see. One friend of my mother's reckons we should say all our 'unsaid bad words' NOW and hope we don't say them when we have dementia! Sadly, it's only embarrassing to the family when the opposite behaviour happens. Fortunately most dementia care workers understand that dementia behaviour is often not what the person used to be like.
One of the male nurses in Dad's unit always ties their shoelaces up with one eye on the patient - he was once clocked by an elderly lady as he chatted and did her shoelaces up and ended up on the floor!
And yes, Beth and Jules - I laugh at the silly things he says (if I can understand what he is talking about) and then shed the tears as I think of who he used to be.
Gerty Dancer said
10:23 PM Aug 6, 2013
Regarding the young age of Alzheimers patients Queenkombi, in one nursing home where I worked in the 'special unit" there was a woman in her 40's, she used to work there! She was younger than me and it was such a shock to see her just standing there looking so lost. I've never forgotten her, absolutely tragic.
I know its not done so often nowadays, but I often think with very agitated people who are frequently violent, and the family cant cope, or staff are inadequate in number as well as training then the last resort has to be sedation. I hope I would be sedated if I was like that.
QueenKombi said
11:26 PM Aug 6, 2013
Gerty Dancer wrote:
Regarding the young age of Alzheimers patients Queenkombi, in one nursing home where I worked in the 'special unit" there was a woman in her 40's, she used to work there! She was younger than me and it was such a shock to see her just standing there looking so lost. I've never forgotten her, absolutely tragic.
I know its not done so often nowadays, but I often think with very agitated people who are frequently violent, and the family cant cope, or staff are inadequate in number as well as training then the last resort has to be sedation. I hope I would be sedated if I was like that.
There was a study done which we heard about at work and although I can't remember the figures, the study concluded by saying that sedation or no sedation, the aggressive/violent incidents were not decreased. I personally believe that at least sedation helps to keep them away from other residents. They can't belt anyone if they're dozing in a chair, but sedation also increases the risk of falls and injury. You can't win!
Doctors and psychiatrists are using sedation less and less. This is because of directives coming from higher up the health administration chain. I don't know what the answer is. The situation is getting out of hand and the incidents of aggressive nursing home residents is on the rise. People wring their hands in anticipation of "all the baby boomers who will soon be in care" but after them comes all the younger ones who are affected by drugs and alcohol and they number in the thousands.
Kantiki said
12:22 AM Aug 7, 2013
Last week I wrote to dads specialist, expressing the family's concerns re his driving and asking him to either cancel his license or retest dad. Dad had agreed to give up at Christmas and get rid of their ancient car. Then another family member bought them a new car. Dr says he can only drive with someone else in the car. How will that stop him making a fatal mistake. Today he tells me as he has a nice new car, he can now drive to Newcastle, four hours away. I don't know what else to do, but I promise if he hurts himself or someone else, that Dr will have hell to pay.
neilnruth said
02:52 AM Aug 7, 2013
Hang in there Kantiki. It's hard. Especially when you fear the worst might happen.
jules47 said
04:11 AM Aug 7, 2013
My mother in law didn't have dementia, but was an atrocious driver, having only got her licence at 52!!!!!
My son saw her driving down through a shopping centre once, was so shocked at the way she drove, he disabled his own car, told her he needed to borrow her car to go to work(he was favourite grandson) - and kept it on "borrow" until her licence run out - by that time he had taken the car interstate!!!!!!!!
Beth54 said
04:18 AM Aug 7, 2013
jules47 wrote:
My mother in law didn't have dementia, but was an atrocious driver, having only got her licence at 52!!!!!
My son saw her driving down through a shopping centre once, was so shocked at the way she drove, he disabled his own car, told her he needed to borrow her car to go to work(he was favourite grandson) - and kept it on "borrow" until her licence run out - by that time he had taken the car interstate!!!!!!!!
My Mum didn't get her licence til her fifties either Jules. She was a very scary driver. All the grandchildren were antsy about riding with her. She never had an accident but we reckon she left a trail of destruction behind her.
jules47 said
04:21 AM Aug 7, 2013
I know what you mean Beth - my son had her car for FIVE years!!!!!!!
billeeeeeee said
05:07 AM Aug 7, 2013
May I be serious for a moment,,, its very hard , !!but ill try,,,,, !! The whole World has Dementia,, no other word to describe it,,,,,,, stay excited, .....Billeeeeee
Having watched parents and other elderly relatives battle dementia, I know its a hard journey for their children.
Not just the physical care, or the emotions of loss, but the guilt trip.
It is extremely difficult to see grown up children struggle to "do the right thing" when the parent has told them over the years "never put me in a home".
Sometime professional care is the best and safest option.
Sometimes you need to be the son or daughter, and not the carer.
RE: posts about people being abused through PM's.
Let me just say firstly that I'm not trying to stir the pot...far from it...and I'm not making excuses for the perpetrators.
I just think we need to keep in mind that the members on here are mostly baby boomers and older. Therefore it stands to reason that some members may be heading into Dementia and/or Alzheimers. That person may not have a partner to make them aware that they're having symptoms. Or they're in denial.
Alz·hei·mer's disease
/ltshamrz, ælts-, lts-/ Show Spelled [ahlts-hahy-merz, alts-, awlts-] Show IPA
And from my experience with my dear late Mum, they can get cranky over the silliest things, and come out with the craziest notions.
As I said, I'm not making excuses for anyone, just pointing out the facts of aging.
-- Edited by Beth54 on Monday 5th of August 2013 06:14:25 PM
I know what you mean about idiot doctors grams. Mum's was a shocker and Dads wasn't much better. Yet they insist on staying with them and not getting a second opinion.
-- Edited by Beth54 on Monday 5th of August 2013 11:16:23 PM
But an Aged Care nurse working in dementia had told us at a seminar that there is always the 'Ahh Factor'. While ever you can still say 'Ahh! That's where I left my keys' or (in my case) 'Ahh, I don't need to wear my gown I need to hang it up.' then you don't have dementia. It's when you find your keys but never remember that you had even lost them that you are heading for dementia. Sadly, it's a long, sad farewell to the ones you love. And you have to put up with the disagreements along the way.
I have no idea what your opening post is referring to Beth (I've been away for a while) but it's good to make a note of what happens as you age.
I have often gone into a room, and stood there wondering why I am there. I go back out and then it comes to me lol
I put something down, not in it's original place and I forget where I put it....now it all has a place to go.
I even forgot my name the other day, when someone asked me on the phone, you know one of those 'blank' moments.
Plus many more...
I have put all these down to all the brains cells that die when having low blood sugar, it affects memory first, which is a buggar.
a common form of dementia, believed to be caused by changes in the brain, usually beginning in late middle age, characterized by memory lapses, confusion, emotional instability, and progressive loss of mental ability.
...................................................................................................................................................................................
Emotional instability, and progressive loss of mental ability. Thank God my Intellect is as sharp as a butter knife, or so Julie says, ...Greeting all you unstable baby boomers, and a big Howdyeeeee to all confused excited fruite loops,,,,,,,,,,, I Salute you all,, stay excited, and enjoy the play ground,, its a gift , given to us ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Billeeeeeee
Thanks for the heads up, my dads GP is a moron, he passes my dads license every year, even though my dad has to be told where he is going (normal daily trip to the shops in the car) by my mum. Sometimes he will suddenly pull over as he forgot where he was going. He used to drive to the city, but it scares him to have a truck pass him the other way, and he doesn't like veering off onto the shoulder as it was ruining his tyres
so now he just drives around the big town they live in.
my mum doesn't drive and she would hate to walk to the end of her street to catch the local bus
every year I hope he loses his license...but no his GP just signs the paperwork. The idiot.
Not sure if the states differ but in WA a family member can contact the police with concerns. It is noted down and the next licence renewal is a drivers check. Mum drove well enough, seemed to know where she was going but when it came to the questions....she failed.
I miss my Mum.
Colls
Dad looked after Mum for 2 years after heart attacks which left her with Dementia. But he was buggered by then, and told us he couldn't do it any longer. (It was his choice to care for her at home.) On the advise of someone in the system, we took Mum to the ED at the Mater and told them Dad couldn't cope, and none of us were in a position to have her fulltime. It was all on her file so they did some basic tests there in ED and admitted her. 2 weeks later the ACAT lady found a care facility for her and 6 weeks later she was gone.
It was a totally different story with Dad. He had his marbles right up to his last day. He chose to give up his licence when Mum became ill. Mum really didn't remember that she drove so her licence wasn't a problem. And Dad chose to go into care about a year before his passing. He was very happy where he was, and he always had lots of visitors.
For us, it was awful to see Mum in that state, but like Jules said, we remember those funny moments now. When in the Mater, she thought she was waiting for a train. While in care, she asked me to bring her an ice cream, but a particular one. I couldn't work out which one she was talking about, and she said 'you're brain's worse than mine!'
We were lucky that Mum always knew who we were.
-- Edited by Beth54 on Tuesday 6th of August 2013 10:38:34 AM
On another note -re the licence - you can contact the Road Traffic Authority in your state with your concerns - and that the doctor just signs the paper every year - they will do something about it - we did this for an old guy who was a danger to everyone on the road, especially himself - didn't park his car in the street, more like abandoned it where he was driving - 6 feet or so from the gutter!!!!!
The people that we see have often been loving and caring parents, have had very productive and successful lives and have laid the foundations for a bountiful lifestyle for their children and grandchildren, yet at times they become violent, impulsive people which is totally out of character to the way they've presented in the past. The ABC recently ran a story on dementia related violence in aged care settings and it was a real eye-opener! The staff are not always trained to deal with it, after all, that's not why they chose to work in aged care and of course there are never enough nurses in high level aged settings at the best of times, so nurses and co-residents are being continuously subjected to violent behaviours. And what can you do? It's a problem that's becoming worse.
I'm not sure building more specific dementia places for people like that is entirely the answer either, even in the unlikely event that out Governments would cough for the funding. How do you get young nurses to work in an environment where they're constantly subjected to aggressive and sometimes violent behaviours? And they need to be young and fit enough to handle such residents as Alzheimers and various other dementias are being seen in increasingly younger and younger people. One chap we had for a long time was only in his early 70's and as strong as an ox. He was quick to take offence at the slightest provocation and in the blink of an eye he'd throw a punch at your face, yet the photo album his wife had brought in showed a very different man. Looking through it and seeing how he'd been only a couple of years ago brought a tear to my eye.
This is a problem that will only get worse as Government funding is directed to other areas. There's just not enough tax money to go around and the situation in nursing homes can only deteriorate. I've already decided that I'll never see the inside of a nursing home......... but you can never plan for the unexpected!!
My own Dad is using words he would never have used and doing nasty things to other people. That is hard to see. One friend of my mother's reckons we should say all our 'unsaid bad words' NOW and hope we don't say them when we have dementia! Sadly, it's only embarrassing to the family when the opposite behaviour happens. Fortunately most dementia care workers understand that dementia behaviour is often not what the person used to be like.
One of the male nurses in Dad's unit always ties their shoelaces up with one eye on the patient - he was once clocked by an elderly lady as he chatted and did her shoelaces up and ended up on the floor!
And yes, Beth and Jules - I laugh at the silly things he says (if I can understand what he is talking about) and then shed the tears as I think of who he used to be.
I know its not done so often nowadays, but I often think with very agitated people who are frequently violent, and the family cant cope, or staff are inadequate in number as well as training then the last resort has to be sedation. I hope I would be sedated if I was like that.
There was a study done which we heard about at work and although I can't remember the figures, the study concluded by saying that sedation or no sedation, the aggressive/violent incidents were not decreased. I personally believe that at least sedation helps to keep them away from other residents. They can't belt anyone if they're dozing in a chair, but sedation also increases the risk of falls and injury. You can't win!
Doctors and psychiatrists are using sedation less and less. This is because of directives coming from higher up the health administration chain. I don't know what the answer is. The situation is getting out of hand and the incidents of aggressive nursing home residents is on the rise. People wring their hands in anticipation of "all the baby boomers who will soon be in care" but after them comes all the younger ones who are affected by drugs and alcohol and they number in the thousands.
My mother in law didn't have dementia, but was an atrocious driver, having only got her licence at 52!!!!!
My son saw her driving down through a shopping centre once, was so shocked at the way she drove, he disabled his own car, told her he needed to borrow her car to go to work(he was favourite grandson) - and kept it on "borrow" until her licence run out - by that time he had taken the car interstate!!!!!!!!
My Mum didn't get her licence til her fifties either Jules. She was a very scary driver. All the grandchildren were antsy about riding with her. She never had an accident but we reckon she left a trail of destruction behind her.
May I be serious for a moment,,, its very hard , !!but ill try,,,,, !! The whole World has Dementia,, no other word to describe it,,,,,,, stay excited, .....Billeeeeee
Not just the physical care, or the emotions of loss, but the guilt trip.
It is extremely difficult to see grown up children struggle to "do the right thing" when the parent has told them over the years "never put me in a home".
Sometime professional care is the best and safest option.
Sometimes you need to be the son or daughter, and not the carer.