I saw a documentary last year about Detroit. It was very sad to think the place has ended up as mostly a waste land. The Henry Ford factory is a shell and the homeless have stripped it of copper pipes and anything else of any worth.
Duh said
10:39 PM Jul 28, 2013
Here are a few more of Detroit Judy.......I hope we are not heading the same way with the huge increase in welfare recipients we are getting etc;
(PS: Other GN's please don't make any political type comments on this thread.....I don't want it deleted).
Ive seen similar documentaries comparing Detroit to China. As like Japan, China has no welfare, so your average worker apparently puts aside 40 to 50% of their wages for a rainy day, and this is why apparently China has so much money to lend to America etc.
And most workers seem to be content to go without things like large TVs and anything similar to the great Australian or American dream of a large house and new cars etc
But they never seem to tell what they do about the terminally unemployable, or maybe they dont have that issue, no work, no eat.
And how have they dealt with the crime issue, as I have noticed that every time another big business closes in my area, and the more dropkicks in their good thieving hoodies are wandering the streets looking like their up to no good.
What worries me is we seem to be about 10 years behind America, so Im expecting to something similar in Australia shorty, as we have killed off our manufacturing industry, thus all the low skilled jobs.
Plendo said
03:49 AM Jul 30, 2013
Having spent a lot of time in both Japan and China (I still have Chinese residence), I ca see the difference between the Australian way and both these countries.
It is true that neither Japan or China have welfare programs, and their cultures do not readily accept people who are not pulling their weight.
But the big safety valve they do have that we miss in Australia is a very strong sense of family, and the responsibility of the family to look after each other. The adults look after the children, and when the children grow up they look after their grand parents and parents. In many cases this also spreads out across the community, especially in the villages.
Being wealthy in a small community in either Japan or China bring with it a social responsibility. This is starting to fall apart in the cities as the city communities become less personal.
The same is true in every Asian country I have lived in.
In Australia we seem to have a society that has forgotten all about family, except in some tight nit ethnic groups.
QueenKombi said
06:11 AM Jul 30, 2013
So many issues here that it's hard to say how we'll fare in another ten or fifteen years. I'd heard that Detroit was a mess, but those are the first pictures I've seen. I believe Detroit has now officially filed for bankruptcy?
Yes Plendo, a strong sense of family used to also be an Australian way of life too. I remember it well, but there's too many shiny new toys for the off-spring to play with these days. One of my sons once said to me that I shouldn't expect to see him too often as it cost him $5 to drive "all the way out" to see me. I'm 30klm S/W of where he lives. He also once said not to expect them (he and his wife) to look after me when I get old saying that....... "there's plenty of good nursing homes out there!" More recently he said that he was only joking, but at the time the body language said it all and I was hurt, not that I'd ever expect him or his wife to have to look after me in my old age, but it hurts when one of your own sons says something like that out of the blue, yet when we do get together, we enjoy each other's company!
Yes, maybe hard days are ahead for some of us, but so far I've had an amazing life and am pleased for the good years I've experienced. They can't last forever!
Aime.
Duh said
12:52 AM Jul 31, 2013
D and D wrote:
Perhaps not opening the thread with blatantly right wing, neo-con political statements may have been a good way of avoiding any political comment.....
Don't know how you figured that out, but you don't have to be a genius to know our welfare bill is growing higher and higher with each passing year, it has nothing to do with politics or what party is in power or being right wing, just stating the facts.
You don't know me by the way, so you have no idea what my political leanings are.
I was trying to avoid the thread being taken off topic by political comment (and I don't consider mine was) as otherwise it would have been removed by the webmaster.
By the way, personal attacks such as yours are not tolerated either. Suggest you have a read of the forum rules, which says in part;
"Posters should refrain from personal attacks. We welcome and encourage healthy discussion and debate but do expect members to show courtesy and respect to one another at all times. If any member or visitor has any concerns about the nature of any of the threads on the forum, or about a specific poster, they should contact the Webmaster immediately and the appropriate action will be taken."
-- Edited by Duh on Wednesday 31st of July 2013 01:08:19 AM
jimbo said
01:30 AM Jul 31, 2013
If it can happen the Gods country..Then I will happen here
pauline said
03:33 AM Jul 31, 2013
Really makes you think doesn't it.............maybe best not to.
Duh said
03:50 AM Jul 31, 2013
Those pic's of Detroit look like those movies you see about the end of the world....
D and D said
05:39 AM Jul 31, 2013
Duh wrote:
Here are a few more of Detroit Judy.......I hope we are not heading the same way with the huge increase in welfare recipients we are getting etc;
(PS: Other GN's please don't make any political type comments on this thread.....I don't want it deleted).
Perhaps not opening the thread with blatantly right wing, neo-con political statements may have been a good way of avoiding any political comment. But anyway ....
Detroit has been a basket case since the late 1970's following the oil shock and the almost collapse of the US car industry due to the onslaught of cheaper, better quality and more efficient imported (mainly Japanese) cars. The GFC was the final straw despite the huge amount of government money that was poured into the US auto industry (upon which Detroit was heavily dependent) it was unable to return to the halicon days of the 1950's. The demise of Detroit and other US cities is not a consequence of an excessive welfare system - that the US doesn't have anyway - but to political, economic and sociological forces that were beyond the control of civic and business leaders.
My parents made the best decision of their lives by dragging me, my brother and my sister from the UK to Australia in the 1960's because the heavy industrial areas of the UK were undergoing the same challenges.
If you want to make comparisons of countries with and without social welfare systems compare Japan or the US with Scandinavian countries or with Germany or even Australia all of which have reasonably expansive social welfare strategies in place and which have succeeded in maintaining a relatively high standards of living and strong and healthy economies while still supporting those unable to look after themselves for whatever reason. Those GN's doing their thing while in receipt of a pension, or those of us requiring very, very expensive medications at subsidised prices through the PBS or any of the other benefits of living in a country that is committed to trying to level out the playing field somewhat should come out fighting to retain our social welfare system not sit back criticising it or failing to defend it.
Webmaster said
04:44 PM Jul 31, 2013
Thanks, everyone. I think I'll close this down now. We really would like to keep our forum a friendly and welcoming place to be.
or
Government welfare programs created to buy the votes
Japan does not have a welfare system.
Work for it or do without.
These are possibly the 5 best sentences
you'll ever read and all applicable to this experiment:
1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity
2. What one person receives without working for,
3. The government cannot give to anybody anything
4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it!
5. When half of the people get the idea that they
...........................................................
I saw a documentary last year about Detroit. It was very sad to think the place has ended up as mostly a waste land. The Henry Ford factory is a shell and the homeless have stripped it of copper pipes and anything else of any worth.
Here are a few more of Detroit Judy.......I hope we are not heading the same way with the huge increase in welfare recipients we are getting etc;
(PS: Other GN's please don't make any political type comments on this thread.....I don't want it deleted).
.....And a few more of Hiroshima...
And most workers seem to be content to go without things like large TVs and anything similar to the great Australian or American dream of a large house and new cars etc
But they never seem to tell what they do about the terminally unemployable, or maybe they dont have that issue, no work, no eat.
And how have they dealt with the crime issue, as I have noticed that every time another big business closes in my area, and the more dropkicks in their good thieving hoodies are wandering the streets looking like their up to no good.
What worries me is we seem to be about 10 years behind America, so Im expecting to something similar in Australia shorty, as we have killed off our manufacturing industry, thus all the low skilled jobs.
Having spent a lot of time in both Japan and China (I still have Chinese residence), I ca see the difference between the Australian way and both these countries.
It is true that neither Japan or China have welfare programs, and their cultures do not readily accept people who are not pulling their weight.
But the big safety valve they do have that we miss in Australia is a very strong sense of family, and the responsibility of the family to look after each other. The adults look after the children, and when the children grow up they look after their grand parents and parents. In many cases this also spreads out across the community, especially in the villages.
Being wealthy in a small community in either Japan or China bring with it a social responsibility. This is starting to fall apart in the cities as the city communities become less personal.
The same is true in every Asian country I have lived in.
In Australia we seem to have a society that has forgotten all about family, except in some tight nit ethnic groups.
Yes Plendo, a strong sense of family used to also be an Australian way of life too. I remember it well, but there's too many shiny new toys for the off-spring to play with these days. One of my sons once said to me that I shouldn't expect to see him too often as it cost him $5 to drive "all the way out" to see me. I'm 30klm S/W of where he lives. He also once said not to expect them (he and his wife) to look after me when I get old saying that....... "there's plenty of good nursing homes out there!" More recently he said that he was only joking, but at the time the body language said it all and I was hurt, not that I'd ever expect him or his wife to have to look after me in my old age, but it hurts when one of your own sons says something like that out of the blue, yet when we do get together, we enjoy each other's company!
Yes, maybe hard days are ahead for some of us, but so far I've had an amazing life and am pleased for the good years I've experienced. They can't last forever!
Aime.
Perhaps not opening the thread with blatantly right wing, neo-con political statements may have been a good way of avoiding any political comment.....
................................................................................................................................................................................................
Don't know how you figured that out, but you don't have to be a genius to know our welfare bill is growing higher and higher with each passing year, it has nothing to do with politics or what party is in power or being right wing, just stating the facts.
You don't know me by the way, so you have no idea what my political leanings are.
I was trying to avoid the thread being taken off topic by political comment (and I don't consider mine was) as otherwise it would have been removed by the webmaster.
By the way, personal attacks such as yours are not tolerated either. Suggest you have a read of the forum rules, which says in part;
"Posters should refrain from personal attacks. We welcome and encourage healthy discussion and debate but do expect members to show courtesy and respect to one another at all times. If any member or visitor has any concerns about the nature of any of the threads on the forum, or about a specific poster, they should contact the Webmaster immediately and the appropriate action will be taken."
-- Edited by Duh on Wednesday 31st of July 2013 01:08:19 AM
Those pic's of Detroit look like those movies you see about the end of the world....
Perhaps not opening the thread with blatantly right wing, neo-con political statements may have been a good way of avoiding any political comment. But anyway ....
Detroit has been a basket case since the late 1970's following the oil shock and the almost collapse of the US car industry due to the onslaught of cheaper, better quality and more efficient imported (mainly Japanese) cars. The GFC was the final straw despite the huge amount of government money that was poured into the US auto industry (upon which Detroit was heavily dependent) it was unable to return to the halicon days of the 1950's. The demise of Detroit and other US cities is not a consequence of an excessive welfare system - that the US doesn't have anyway - but to political, economic and sociological forces that were beyond the control of civic and business leaders.
My parents made the best decision of their lives by dragging me, my brother and my sister from the UK to Australia in the 1960's because the heavy industrial areas of the UK were undergoing the same challenges.
If you want to make comparisons of countries with and without social welfare systems compare Japan or the US with Scandinavian countries or with Germany or even Australia all of which have reasonably expansive social welfare strategies in place and which have succeeded in maintaining a relatively high standards of living and strong and healthy economies while still supporting those unable to look after themselves for whatever reason. Those GN's doing their thing while in receipt of a pension, or those of us requiring very, very expensive medications at subsidised prices through the PBS or any of the other benefits of living in a country that is committed to trying to level out the playing field somewhat should come out fighting to retain our social welfare system not sit back criticising it or failing to defend it.
Thanks, everyone. I think I'll close this down now. We really would like to keep our forum a friendly and welcoming place to be.