If the black connector shown is what I would call a "shark-bite" fitting, (it has a ring of sprung loaded teeth insiide, which I think are just visible in your picture) then the inserts in the red pipe should be used on all connections where you use the black fitting as they are strngtheners to stop the pipe collapsing. I plumbed two houses completley with the shark-bit system and never had a leak.
regards
Mark
-- Edited by Mark on Saturday 13th of July 2013 10:28:17 PM
hako said
03:19 AM Jul 14, 2013
G'Day, I currently fitting a new mixer tap to my van - ended up buying the original crappy plastic design as no other will fit. (Dometic Cramer) $110 with fittings for about 100gm of plastic which will last according to the sales lady at least 4 years. Anyway, the new one has a better method of attaching to the existing lines - it uses quick connect fittings.
My question is whether I 'must' use the insert shown on the red hose in all such connections. Reason I ask is that some that I've disassembled did not have the insert. I'd assume it's cheap insurance?
Our van uses these connectors almost everywhere, no insert in any I've seen and I have changed filter type and rerouted some pipes 2 months ago.
May be a restricter only to reduce flow??? Others will know.
hako said
03:39 AM Jul 14, 2013
Thanks Baz, never thought of it being a restrictor - if it was I'd imagine it to be a much smaller internal diameter but maybe???
03_troopy said
08:54 AM Jul 14, 2013
Maybe it's just to strengthen the walls of thinner walled tubing. I use these connectors on home brew setup which has thick walled tubing which doesn't need the inserts. They wouldn't fit in the tubing anyway.
goldcoaster said
02:08 PM Jul 14, 2013
They should be used , they prevent the pipe blowing off or coming out of fitting. You should always carry a few spares with you because they are hard to get when out bush.
hako said
04:06 PM Jul 14, 2013
Thanks for all the replies - did a bit more research and it seems that you can get away not using an insert when using rigid or semi rigid plastic pipe but they say you should always use an insert when using flexible hose/tubing which is what is used in this case. Apparently over time the hose will compress especially the hot water hose which expands/contracts with use. I think I'll track some down, plus some spares.
Thanks again for all the help - it's great to get answers from all angles so you can decide which way to go.
Regards
Denis
grae and deb said
11:08 PM Jul 14, 2013
hi dennis good question is that black fitting a john guest or is it a shark bite as mark commneted
hako said
12:31 AM Jul 15, 2013
G'Day Grae
Has JG 12mm on it - the hoses say John Guest 12mm. I guess they are speedfit. I think the sharkbite are for rigid plastic pipe and not made by John Guest?
The connector in the picture above is black and is one I bought from Jayco in Townsville a few weeks ago - the connector for the new tap was bought in Toowoomba and is grey....has JG stamped on it. Gripping design and measurements are identical so not sure why one is black and the other grey.
Neither of the caravan places I bought fittings from mentioned the insert.
Regards
Denis
Mark said
06:28 AM Jul 15, 2013
hako wrote:
G'Day Grae Has JG 12mm on it - the hoses say John Guest 12mm. I guess they are speedfit. I think the sharkbite are for rigid plastic pipe and not made by John Guest? The connector in the picture above is black and is one I bought from Jayco in Townsville a few weeks ago - the connector for the new tap was bought in Toowoomba and is grey....has JG stamped on it. Gripping design and measurements are identical so not sure why one is black and the other grey. Neither of the caravan places I bought fittings from mentioned the insert.
Regards Denis
Where did the inserts come from then??
hako said
02:57 PM Jul 15, 2013
G'Day Mark, the insert in the pic was in one of the connectors removed when pulling out the leaky mixer tap.
Apparently in the factory before they fit the sink (with tap attached) to the van, they cut a short piece of tubing, heat one end and force it over the end of the mixer tap hose and put a Jubilee clamp on it. then they use one of the black connectors (in the pic) to connect into the van's lines. The insert was found in one of the tubes removed when pulling the old tap.
The newer mixer tap has proper screwed fittings instead of the above system, so it is a bit more secure (I hope).
Regards
Denis
UPO said
04:53 PM Jul 15, 2013
Hi Denis - I have just renewed most of the water input hoses and re-run a number of hoses from the tanks to a new pressure pump and all non input hosing are the John Guest type. Only a few of the lines I replaced had the end insert - as noted recommended on the hot water lines as the hose will soften a bit with heat and under pressure MAY work loose & leak - inserts are also required to ensure the cut end is square. I used the plastic cut off tool to ensure square cuts.
There is a circlip available that slips under the extended collar to prevent the removal of the hose - for those who have not used these fittings, the "collar" has to be pushed in to free the SS teeth so the hose can be pulled out - a few of my hot water hoses had the circlips & not of the cold.
The main trick with these fittings to to ensure the hose is FULLY inserted ( there are TWO feelings of some resistance as hose is inserted ) before pulling back the couple of mm to set the teeth - can be difficult to achieve in poor access places where two hand are needed.
Bye
UPO - Richard
hako said
08:01 PM Jul 15, 2013
Thanks Richard - I've bought a dozen of the inserts @ 40c ea which I'll instal in the hot water lines....probably also the cold water. The circlip idea sound good to insure against it failing as well - I've got some soft copper wire that would fit in that groove just nicely.
Regards
Denis
patrol03 said
08:16 PM Jul 19, 2013
Hi Denis The reason for the inserts is to give the tubing a perfectly square end where it seats inside the fitting enabling the gripping mechanism to contact the pipe evenly and squarely thus preventing leakage. If you cut the pipe with a knife it may not be quite square and will be prone to leak at the fitting. Professionals use special cutting pliers which make a good square cut and no leaks. For your own insurance use the inserts and complete the job using the cir clips. It is always a good idea also to secure your pipe with clamps at intervals to reduce chaffing of the pipe and fittings on the chassis or inside cupboards. Cheers Ian
hako said
12:07 AM Jul 20, 2013
Thanks Ian, jobs completed now and I used the inserts and copper wire to secure.
Regards
Denis
Two Strays said
05:17 AM Jul 27, 2013
Hello All
Last week I have had to replace the JG fitting (Grey in colour) when it split along the thread on the outlet of the hot water heater, which resulted in a leak.
I was unable to get a grey one as a replacement, so I replaced it with a black one. The old grey one did not have either an insert or circlip. Experience has taught me that both item are necessary, (contrary to common thought).
Thing to note is:
1. The grey insert has a flat face and the black one has a tapered face.
2. The grey insert is a tighter fit (into the pipe) that the black one.
The pipe must be cut square to achieve a leak proof join.
Hi Hako
If the black connector shown is what I would call a "shark-bite" fitting, (it has a ring of sprung loaded teeth insiide, which I think are just visible in your picture) then the inserts in the red pipe should be used on all connections where you use the black fitting as they are strngtheners to stop the pipe collapsing. I plumbed two houses completley with the shark-bit system and never had a leak.
regards
Mark
-- Edited by Mark on Saturday 13th of July 2013 10:28:17 PM
G'Day, I currently fitting a new mixer tap to my van - ended up buying the original crappy plastic design as no other will fit. (Dometic Cramer) $110 with fittings for about 100gm of plastic which will last according to the sales lady at least 4 years. Anyway, the new one has a better method of attaching to the existing lines - it uses quick connect fittings.
My question is whether I 'must' use the insert shown on the red hose in all such connections. Reason I ask is that some that I've disassembled did not have the insert. I'd assume it's cheap insurance?
Many Thanks
Denis
Our van uses these connectors almost everywhere, no insert in any I've seen and I have changed filter type and rerouted some pipes 2 months ago.
May be a restricter only to reduce flow??? Others will know.
Thanks again for all the help - it's great to get answers from all angles so you can decide which way to go.
Regards
Denis
Has JG 12mm on it - the hoses say John Guest 12mm. I guess they are speedfit. I think the sharkbite are for rigid plastic pipe and not made by John Guest?
The connector in the picture above is black and is one I bought from Jayco in Townsville a few weeks ago - the connector for the new tap was bought in Toowoomba and is grey....has JG stamped on it. Gripping design and measurements are identical so not sure why one is black and the other grey.
Neither of the caravan places I bought fittings from mentioned the insert.
Regards
Denis
Where did the inserts come from then??
Apparently in the factory before they fit the sink (with tap attached) to the van, they cut a short piece of tubing, heat one end and force it over the end of the mixer tap hose and put a Jubilee clamp on it. then they use one of the black connectors (in the pic) to connect into the van's lines. The insert was found in one of the tubes removed when pulling the old tap.
The newer mixer tap has proper screwed fittings instead of the above system, so it is a bit more secure (I hope).
Regards
Denis
Hi Denis - I have just renewed most of the water input hoses and re-run a number of hoses from the tanks to a new pressure pump and all non input hosing are the John Guest type. Only a few of the lines I replaced had the end insert - as noted recommended on the hot water lines as the hose will soften a bit with heat and under pressure MAY work loose & leak - inserts are also required to ensure the cut end is square. I used the plastic cut off tool to ensure square cuts.
There is a circlip available that slips under the extended collar to prevent the removal of the hose - for those who have not used these fittings, the "collar" has to be pushed in to free the SS teeth so the hose can be pulled out - a few of my hot water hoses had the circlips & not of the cold.
The main trick with these fittings to to ensure the hose is FULLY inserted ( there are TWO feelings of some resistance as hose is inserted ) before pulling back the couple of mm to set the teeth - can be difficult to achieve in poor access places where two hand are needed.
Bye
UPO - Richard
Regards
Denis
Regards
Denis
Hello All
Last week I have had to replace the JG fitting (Grey in colour) when it split along the thread on the outlet of the hot water heater, which resulted in a leak.
I was unable to get a grey one as a replacement, so I replaced it with a black one. The old grey one did not have either an insert or circlip. Experience has taught me that both item are necessary, (contrary to common thought).
Thing to note is:
1. The grey insert has a flat face and the black one has a tapered face.
2. The grey insert is a tighter fit (into the pipe) that the black one.
The pipe must be cut square to achieve a leak proof join.
Happy Caravanning