Hi everyone. I'm sure there are some knowledgeable people on here that might be able to offer some suggestions or insight. I bought a 1997 Hilux just over 12 months ago for the purpose of getting free fire wood as well as general running around, but once I drove it for awhile, it became obvious that it's severe fuel hog. That 2.4l petrol engine in front of a 5 speed box drinks fuel at the rate of 17lt to the 100klm or 16mpg in the old lingo. I'm sure there are people out there driving big rigs that would love to be getting 16mpg, but I'm very disappointed. I'd planned to put a camper on the back for long hauls in warm weather as the old Kombi just hates the heat, but now I'm not sure what I want to do, however.......
According to the plate under the bonnet, the diff is a G292. That makes it a 4.1, so I'm thinking if I could get a taller diff it might help with the economy. At highway speed of 100kph it's revving at around 3200rpm but with plenty of power in reserve. Even with a load, first gear is only good to get it rolling, making the overdrive 5th gear more like top gear in a 4 speed.
A taller diff of say 3.9 will cost around $500, but if it got me another 6 mpg it would probably be worth it in the long run, so what do others think?
Cheers,
Aime.
blaze said
05:50 AM Jun 21, 2013
Not knowing the hilux gear ratios but I would think that 2500 should be closer to the mark for 100kmh. Maybe someone has fitted smaller diameter tyres, maybe put a wrong ratio diff in cheers blaze
bill12 said
12:15 PM Jun 21, 2013
Larger diameter tyres will give you better economy with a loss of power. you can get suitable tyres from the wreckers. I think they are 14 inch standard, but 4wd hiluxs are 15 and 16 diameter. Checkthe bolt pattern with your spare.Less work than changing the diff. Bill
Weedy Pigeon said
02:49 PM Jun 21, 2013
Don't forget to change the speedo gearing if you change the diff or tyres.
QueenKombi said
05:55 PM Jun 21, 2013
blaze wrote:
Not knowing the hilux gear ratios but I would think that 2500 should be closer to the mark for 100kmh. Maybe someone has fitted smaller diameter tyres, maybe put a wrong ratio diff in cheers blaze
Apparently the 4.1:1 is a fairly standard diff in that model Hilux straight "off the shelf," however who knows what's been done to it by previous owners. The bump stop rubbers had been cut in half suggesting it's been lowered at some point, so it's probably had a hard life and a busted diff wouldn't be out of the question with whatever was at hand thrown is as a replacement. Someone suggested jacking it up and marking the drive shaft, then rotate a wheel taking note of how many times the drive shaft turns, but it all sounds a little complicated.
I suppose the question I'm asking is whether you think putting in a taller diff ratio (or bigger tyres as suggested) will do much for the economy?
In relation to the wheel sizes, yes the 4x4's did have larger diameter rims and tyres, but they had a 6 stud pattern whereas mine is a 5 stud. A tyre place said they could go to 15 or 16" rims and tyres, but I'd have to buy new Sunraisers to go with the tyres. The biggest trouble with going up in tyre size diameter is that I don't have room to carry two different size spares and I seriously doubt a larger wheel/tyre would allow a sharp turn without hitting the front guard, although that theory has to be tested. The vehicle already had wider rims fitted.
Maybe the Toyota 2.4 petrol engine was a fuel hog right from the word go?
Cheers,
Aime.
QueenKombi said
06:02 PM Jun 21, 2013
bill12 wrote:
Larger diameter tyres will give you better economy with a loss of power. you can get suitable tyres from the wreckers. I think they are 14 inch standard, but 4wd hiluxs are 15 and 16 diameter. Checkthe bolt pattern with your spare.Less work than changing the diff. Bill
Thanks Bill.
I suppose even if I got a taller tyre fitted to the rims that are on it, it would give me an indication of if I'm on the right track. My eldest son has a late Falcon which he "thinks" has the same stud pattern and the Falcon rim is either 15 or 16 inch (can't remember what he told me now) so maybe worth a shot.
It still has the same car tyres on it from when I bought it which are undoubtedly of lower profile than the original light truck tyres that should be on it and I did notice that the speedo was reading a bit high as in, when I was sitting dead on 100kph, one of those highway indicators said I was only doing 95kph, so there may be a clue in that.
Aime.
GaryKelly said
11:53 PM Jun 21, 2013
I wouldn't know a diff from a spark plug, Aime, but I do know that 17lt per 100km is a bit rich. My first thought was that the engine needed a tune. My 2.6 also has a rep for being thirsty but not "that" thirsty. I've not measured it but I suspect it's around the 10-12 liter mark.
Mark said
12:07 AM Jun 22, 2013
QueenKombi wrote:
Wombat 280 wrote:
If available and planing on keeping the beast change the engine to a 2.8 D. The petrol version of the 2.4 P is a thirsty beast from the out set . Check the airfilter age and condition they do like air, if changing go KN washable bit dear but cheaper than paper element over time
That thought had crossed my mind too Wombat, but a second hand diesel is around the $4,000 mark and upwards. That would buy a lot of petrol. Maybe the 2.4 was a poorly designed engine in the first place as it seems to be running well and has new filter and plugs, but you can literally see the fuel gauge dropping as you drive along
Perhaps I should simply trade it in when I can afford to, do a bit of research and buy a diesel Hilux that's guaranteed to offer good economy. I really love the little "lux" but it's no use to me the way it is.
Aime.
Hi Aime A trade in sounds the way to go to me. Once you start buggering around with engines, diff's, gearboxes (you need to take that into account as well) it all becomes a bit hit and miss, and then there is the cooling capacity and the additional braking requirements for the increased speed, and the re-plating of the vehicle and putting it over the pits, and the insurance of a modified vehicle, and..and..and..
Trade up when you can, enjoy what you have for the time being and save all those $100's, if not $1000's and put it towards something purpose built and proven.
Hope that helps a bit.
Mark
-- Edited by Mark on Saturday 22nd of June 2013 12:07:46 AM
bill12 said
12:43 AM Jun 22, 2013
I hate to be killjoy,Gary, but I don,t think you will get the fuel figures you have indicated in your post. I had a 2.6ltr courier, and it was heavy on fuel. When you go for a run, engage the gps, and post the figures.You do have a gps, don,t you?The odometer on my courier is out by 15%! Goo to see it on the back. Bill.
Wombat 280 said
04:00 AM Jun 22, 2013
If available and planing on keeping the beast change the engine to a 2.8 D. The petrol version of the 2.4 P is a thirsty beast from the out set . Check the airfilter age and condition they do like air, if changing go KN washable bit dear but cheaper than paper element over time
GaryKelly said
04:01 AM Jun 22, 2013
I meant the fuel figure before the camper, Bill. Now that she's on board, I expect something like you get... around the 13/14 liter mark if I take it fairly easy. As to a GPS, no I don't have one yet. I read up about GPS installed in smart phones and I reckon that's the way I'll go. The ol' two birds with the one stone trick.
bill12 said
05:31 AM Jun 22, 2013
My sister has a Galaxi smart phone with gps built in , and she used it all thru the Simpson desert, so it works. Its just the screen size, as they are a little small. I have a 7 inch navigater, and find it great, and accurate. The speedo on my courier is not! I have had a 2.8 toyo before and used to get up to 12ks to the ltr. It depends on how fast you push it.Normally about 7 or 8k.p.ltr.I hope to see all of you on the road, somewhere. Bill
-- Edited by bill12 on Saturday 22nd of June 2013 05:34:10 AM
QueenKombi said
06:52 AM Jun 22, 2013
Wombat 280 wrote:
If available and planing on keeping the beast change the engine to a 2.8 D. The petrol version of the 2.4 P is a thirsty beast from the out set . Check the airfilter age and condition they do like air, if changing go KN washable bit dear but cheaper than paper element over time
That thought had crossed my mind too Wombat, but a second hand diesel is around the $4,000 mark and upwards. That would buy a lot of petrol. Maybe the 2.4 was a poorly designed engine in the first place as it seems to be running well and has new filter and plugs, but you can literally see the fuel gauge dropping as you drive along
Perhaps I should simply trade it in when I can afford to, do a bit of research and buy a diesel Hilux that's guaranteed to offer good economy. I really love the little "lux" but it's no use to me the way it is.
Aime.
Sol said
01:19 PM Jun 22, 2013
Aime, If you change the motor you also have to change the gearbox, diff and electrics etc. As Mark has said, a trade in would be the best way to go. Next time you're looking for a ute, get on here and ask some questions about the vehicle you've found before you buy it. This is an awesome forum, as you already know, with heaps of helpful people waiting to help you out.
One other problem those motors (2.4) had, was the automatic choke spring stretched and the auto choke would come on even when vehicle was warmed up and had been driven for awhile.
, Cheers Sol
QueenKombi said
05:49 PM Jun 22, 2013
Sol wrote:
Aime, If you change the motor you also have to change the gearbox, diff and electrics etc. As Mark has said, a trade in would be the best way to go. Next time you're looking for a ute, get on here and ask some questions about the vehicle you've found before you buy it. This is an awesome forum, as you already know, with heaps of helpful people waiting to help you out.
One other problem those motors (2.4) had, was the automatic choke spring stretched and the auto choke would come on even when vehicle was warmed up and had been driven for awhile.
, Cheers Sol
Thanks Sol. And a very good point concerning the choke. I recently read a forum comment about the 2.4 petrol engine where the commenter said his was always a "dog" on fuel, but it improved somewhat when he fitted a manual choke. I asked a mechanic who coincidently happened to have owned one in the past and he said he rarely touched his. He also said the 2.4 was a fuel hog but the one he had was nowhere near as bad as mine, yet my shift manager who also had one said he filled his tank twice a week, but after having dumped the Hilux 2x4 for a 84 Ford Courier 4x4, his fuel bill halved.
I think I rushed out and bought a dud. I would mind if I could get around 22mpg, but 16mpg driving an unladen vehicle like an old granny is ridiculous. I think I'll start looking around for a trade-in when the weather fines up a bit and like you said, plenty of knowledgeable people on here to get some buying tips from. By the way, if I don't drive like and old granny, the economy drops to around 14mpg
Cheers,
Aime.
GaryKelly said
01:25 AM Jun 23, 2013
All very interesting and useful stuff! And thanks for the tip about the smart phone GPS, Bill.
Hi everyone. I'm sure there are some knowledgeable people on here that might be able to offer some suggestions or insight. I bought a 1997 Hilux just over 12 months ago for the purpose of getting free fire wood as well as general running around, but once I drove it for awhile, it became obvious that it's severe fuel hog. That 2.4l petrol engine in front of a 5 speed box drinks fuel at the rate of 17lt to the 100klm or 16mpg in the old lingo. I'm sure there are people out there driving big rigs that would love to be getting 16mpg, but I'm very disappointed. I'd planned to put a camper on the back for long hauls in warm weather as the old Kombi just hates the heat, but now I'm not sure what I want to do, however.......
According to the plate under the bonnet, the diff is a G292. That makes it a 4.1, so I'm thinking if I could get a taller diff it might help with the economy. At highway speed of 100kph it's revving at around 3200rpm but with plenty of power in reserve. Even with a load, first gear is only good to get it rolling, making the overdrive 5th gear more like top gear in a 4 speed.
A taller diff of say 3.9 will cost around $500, but if it got me another 6 mpg it would probably be worth it in the long run, so what do others think?
Cheers,
Aime.
cheers
blaze
Apparently the 4.1:1 is a fairly standard diff in that model Hilux straight "off the shelf," however who knows what's been done to it by previous owners. The bump stop rubbers had been cut in half suggesting it's been lowered at some point, so it's probably had a hard life and a busted diff wouldn't be out of the question with whatever was at hand thrown is as a replacement. Someone suggested jacking it up and marking the drive shaft, then rotate a wheel taking note of how many times the drive shaft turns, but it all sounds a little complicated.
I suppose the question I'm asking is whether you think putting in a taller diff ratio (or bigger tyres as suggested) will do much for the economy?
In relation to the wheel sizes, yes the 4x4's did have larger diameter rims and tyres, but they had a 6 stud pattern whereas mine is a 5 stud. A tyre place said they could go to 15 or 16" rims and tyres, but I'd have to buy new Sunraisers to go with the tyres. The biggest trouble with going up in tyre size diameter is that I don't have room to carry two different size spares and I seriously doubt a larger wheel/tyre would allow a sharp turn without hitting the front guard, although that theory has to be tested. The vehicle already had wider rims fitted.
Maybe the Toyota 2.4 petrol engine was a fuel hog right from the word go?
Cheers,
Aime.
Thanks Bill.
I suppose even if I got a taller tyre fitted to the rims that are on it, it would give me an indication of if I'm on the right track. My eldest son has a late Falcon which he "thinks" has the same stud pattern and the Falcon rim is either 15 or 16 inch (can't remember what he told me now) so maybe worth a shot.
It still has the same car tyres on it from when I bought it which are undoubtedly of lower profile than the original light truck tyres that should be on it and I did notice that the speedo was reading a bit high as in, when I was sitting dead on 100kph, one of those highway indicators said I was only doing 95kph, so there may be a clue in that.
Aime.
-- Edited by Mark on Saturday 22nd of June 2013 12:07:46 AM
My sister has a Galaxi smart phone with gps built in , and she used it all thru the Simpson desert, so it works. Its just the screen size, as they are a little small. I have a 7 inch navigater, and find it great, and accurate. The speedo on my courier is not! I have had a 2.8 toyo before and used to get up to 12ks to the ltr. It depends on how fast you push it.Normally about 7 or 8k.p.ltr.I hope to see all of you on the road, somewhere. Bill
-- Edited by bill12 on Saturday 22nd of June 2013 05:34:10 AM
That thought had crossed my mind too Wombat, but a second hand diesel is around the $4,000 mark and upwards. That would buy a lot of petrol. Maybe the 2.4 was a poorly designed engine in the first place as it seems to be running well and has new filter and plugs, but you can literally see the fuel gauge dropping as you drive along
Perhaps I should simply trade it in when I can afford to, do a bit of research and buy a diesel Hilux that's guaranteed to offer good economy. I really love the little "lux" but it's no use to me the way it is.
Aime.
If you change the motor you also have to change the gearbox, diff and electrics etc.
As Mark has said, a trade in would be the best way to go.
Next time you're looking for a ute, get on here and ask some questions about the vehicle you've found before you buy it.
This is an awesome forum, as you already know, with heaps of helpful people waiting to help you out.
One other problem those motors (2.4) had, was the automatic choke spring stretched and the auto choke would come on even when vehicle was warmed up and had been driven for awhile.
, Cheers Sol
Thanks Sol. And a very good point concerning the choke. I recently read a forum comment about the 2.4 petrol engine where the commenter said his was always a "dog" on fuel, but it improved somewhat when he fitted a manual choke. I asked a mechanic who coincidently happened to have owned one in the past and he said he rarely touched his. He also said the 2.4 was a fuel hog but the one he had was nowhere near as bad as mine, yet my shift manager who also had one said he filled his tank twice a week, but after having dumped the Hilux 2x4 for a 84 Ford Courier 4x4, his fuel bill halved.
I think I rushed out and bought a dud. I would mind if I could get around 22mpg, but 16mpg driving an unladen vehicle like an old granny is ridiculous. I think I'll start looking around for a trade-in when the weather fines up a bit and like you said, plenty of knowledgeable people on here to get some buying tips from. By the way, if I don't drive like and old granny, the economy drops to around 14mpg
Cheers,
Aime.